installing b16 intake manifold on a20

[othick]

I just got started on this today. I have read some posts on here about drilling a couple of new holes to get it to bolt up. That part was pretty easy but when I put the b16 gasket on the a20 head I discovered while the ports line up the b16 ports are quite a bit bigger. So now I'm working on grinding out the a20 ports to mach the b16 manifold. It's not that hard but it's going to take me all afternoon. To anyone who has done this did it hurt the bottom end torque? Just by looking at it it seems the b16 intake manifold is really made for high rpm use. I'm not putting the head back on for about another 10 days or so but I will post up the dyno results for anyone who was thinking about doing this.

[Gregg86DX]

I just got started on this today. I have read some posts on here about drilling a couple of new holes to get it to bolt up. That part was pretty easy but when I put the b16 gasket on the a20 head I discovered while the ports line up the b16 ports are quite a bit bigger. So now I'm working on grinding out the a20 ports to mach the b16 manifold. It's not that hard but it's going to take me all afternoon. To anyone who has done this did it hurt the bottom end torque? Just by looking at it it seems the b16 intake manifold is really made for high rpm use. I'm not putting the head back on for about another 10 days or so but I will post up the dyno results for anyone who was thinking about doing this.

What are you planning to do about EGR? I am curious what the negative effects of removing it will be. I have a B16 manifold for my B20A that I am plannning to install, but I am still concerned about the EGR.

[othick]

I don't plan on running egr.

[Gregg86DX]

I don't plan on running egr.

Ok, if you don't mind, please keep us posted on how this goes. Drivability, power, mileage, etc...

Thanks,
Gregg

[bobafett]

justin86 removed EGR, and so have a few other members. basically i think u throw a light on the dash and maybe a code.. but i dont think it effects performance in a negative way

[joker2]

Removing the EGR will not affect your performance but it will throw a code eventhough I have yet to do so...... It's weird because as sensitive as my car was before I did this mod I was for certain that removing the EGR would make my car mad.... As far as the bottom end being affected, I really didn't notice too much of a drop off but the top end is a beast!!! But I have to mention that my car is no where close to being stock so that could be the difference for me.....

[shepherd79]

i don't know why, when my car was throwing EGR code. my car had high idle.
i replaced the valve and it went away. so you may have to watch out for that too.

you supposed to use A20 intake gasket. this way you don't have to do anything to the gasket.

[othick]

The a20 intake gasket is too small for the b16 intake manifold. You could use it and not port out your head but there would be a smaller opening in the head and I would imagine that would be bad for airflow.
I took a few measurement a got the following
a20 intake port width - 50mm
b16 manifold port width - 52mm
measuring side to side
a20 intake port height - 39mm
b16 manifold port height - 43mm,
measuring top to bottom

[Sean]

please tell me that whle youve been porting the opening that you didnt touch the floor of the port. if you did take your head off and throw it in the garbage. you just ruined it. the b16 intake i nice but ive got one in the works that will stomp its nuts off.

[Justin86]

yea it will help to remove the EGR. That way you are not recurculating that dirty air, so you will get a little more power since your have more oxygen and you will have much better throttle response. The trick is to getting the PGM-Fi light to turn off. I belive I have figure it out, if you still use the A20 intake but with the B16 intake you will have to do some ECU hacking.

[b20a86lude]

ok im so serious about my performance i do not want to do anything that will destroy my performance what i want to know is i have heard 3 people say t hey used the a20 gasket i just bou ght one last week thw a20 gasket and im finishing the the sytuds up for my b16 mani conv now before i put thos bad boy on what one should i be usin b16 gasket or a20 gASKET

[othick]

The floor of the ports line up, it's the sides and the area around the fuel injectors that are off. The closer you get to the top of the port the farther off they are. Just out of curiosity why would boring out the floor of the port ruin the head?

b20a86lude - Just take the a20 gasket and lay it on the b16 manifold to see how far off they are. I measured the a20 gasket and it was 2mm too small. I don't know how much having a 2mm lip where the air enters the head is going to hurt performance. I also don't know how much hogging out the a20 ports to mach the b16 intake will hurt performance. This is all free to me and my friends are renting out a dyno on Saturday so if it helps or hurts I'll post the results here.

[Justin86]

I would imagine you would use the b16 gasket. The A20 is smaller and it would stick into the chamber and cause terbulance.

[88 Accord DX]

will you lose bottom end?? YES!

i have a b16 and let me tell you i have NO BOTTOM END. the b16 is one of the highest reving engines (8.2K RPM). it will help out your top end more though. unless you have some kick ass mods to help out your lower end (4-1 headers, etc.) i wouldnt reccomend doing this yet. i thought i was cool installing my CAI first until i noticed just how much it killed my low end. sure i gained more top end but im still debating if it was worth it...

[AccordEpicenter]

grinding the port floor kills the port flow... it takes very little grinding in the wrong areas to kill these ports.

[othick]

I tried to take off the least amount I could. I basically hogged out the port right around the edge. I don't want to slow the velocity of the air it will kill my low end.

88 accord dx - your cai should not hurt your low end. On b16's cai's have the biggest hp gain around 4k rpm's due to the long intake tube. The b16 has no low end toruqe because it's a 1.6 n/a, it's impossible for any 1.6 to make any power down low n/a, that's why I turbo'd mine. I've been thinking a b16 manifold is designed for a 1.6l engine that spins to 8200rpm so it should be o.k. on a 2.0 spinning to 6500rpm. I know the b16 moves a little more air on the top end due to the cam profile and head design but once my cam gets back from colt I think it will be a good match.

[bobafett]

i lost lowend with my CAI, 2nd gear burnouts i used to be able to hold allll the way to redline, but it wont keep doing them once my car gets some speed up it catches around 3800 and i bog... :( maybe i wasnt trying as hard... i dont care, u dont use lowend when u need the power, so im not worried either way

[b20a86lude]

ok i got a real hard question for yall i thought i knew it but i guess i dont i got a jdm b16a mani from a older b16 problay came froma crx but anyways i was like i need to replace all the gaskets for itt so i went to replace the injector o rings in the mani not the ijector so i orderdd them from a 99 civic si they were way thinnes jdm thick o rings so my question is when go about ordering the b16 mani gasket is is going to be the same as the 99 si gasket and all the othe r gaskets on it bew the same if anyone knwos this dilema help

[joker2]

Since I have done this mod I will tell you that you will be wasting your money if you order all of the b16 gaskets... You can use the A20 injector gaskets with no problems and as far as the intake gasket, you'll be using the A20 gasket as well..... Now you might want to trim a little off of the top side (injector side) and the sides of the gasket but that's it and make sure you don't over do it!!! Now, the EGR does affect idle to some degree but that easily corrected by a combination of things.... Everyones experiences will vary by different mods that you may already have on the car.... Like me, I have a reground cam, FPR, ported head and a block with a 20 overbore so when I tune my car there are things I'm able to adjust and monitor that some of you are just not able to do.... So my advice to some is when doing this be perpared to spend some hours tuning and tweaking your car to get it just right because this is not just a slap on and go type of project....

[88 Accord DX]

88 accord dx - your cai should not hurt your low end. On b16's cai's have the biggest hp gain around 4k rpm's due to the long intake tube.

yes, CAI's kill low end if you dont have any other mods. Ask anyone on SolSociety, or any SI's with the B16.

[othick]

Maybe my del sol is not the norm but when I installed a cai on it I saw a gain of 7 peak hp and a spike of about 10hp around 4-5k rpm, giving me 141hp at the wheels. Maybe my car is a strange case but I dyno everything so I speak only from personal experience.

[Sean]

how do you guys come up with these insane HP numbers. what dyno are you using ?

[A20A1]

I know the B16 is DOHC but I fail to see how our 2.0 liter would suffer when installing the B16 manifold. Sure you'll lose the kick when the stock manifold opened the second set of runners... but the problem with the B16 one might lie somewhere else... like in the ECU, FPR, TB, or INJECTORS?

It's like the carb guys going from a progressive carb to a larger synchonous carb, you lose the kick but you make more power. Well should make more.

[A20A1]

will you lose bottom end?? YES!

i have a b16 and let me tell you i have NO BOTTOM END. the b16 is one of the highest reving engines (8.2K RPM). it will help out your top end more though. unless you have some kick ass mods to help out your lower end (4-1 headers, etc.) i wouldnt reccomend doing this yet.

You mean 4-2-1
4-1 is a top end header



I tried to take off the least amount I could. I basically hogged out the port right around the edge. I don't want to slow the velocity of the air it will kill my low end.
88 accord dx - your cai should not hurt your low end.

So a nice smooth chamfer...
Anywho about the intake, there are so may variables to consider... like material... the amount of bends... the degree of the bends... and the size and length of the pipe, so it's very likely that one intake would kill power while others would help out considerably.

[BensAccordLxi]

I have seen a large number of Vtec DynoJet results at my friends shop. It's normal to see a good spike befor Vtec kicks in. It should spike drop and then shoot up again. Did you have the stock air box on befor? I have seen numbers like that befor but only when going from box to CIA. Also, did they have a good fan hitting your intake? That usualy helps some. My friends shop has a big fan for the motor and radiator and a smaller crazzy high output one for the intake or cooler.

[othick]

Yeah it was stock, then we installed the cai. It was made by aem. Usually when I dyno a turbo car I use the fan but I just wanted to get a baseline before I put on the turbo so I didn't bother. It was on a dynojet if anyone is interested. I think the dyno is pretty acurate I've had at least 5 cars on it and they all made about what you would expect, except that time I dyno'd my ae86 at 208whp, I was pretty suprised. I was planning on doing the manifold/head swap this weekend but I think while I'm at it I'm going to put in 88lxi pistons so I might wait until after colt sends me my cam back then put it on.