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View Full Version : Thermostat, gas mileage 101



TINBOAT
01-27-2004, 10:42 AM
Okay...I've been seeing lots of posts about poor fuel economy, and low engine temperatures.
I am a mechanic, and spent a very long time working with imports, quite abit of it was Honda exclusive. Just remember that I'm a mechanic, not a scholar, so please bear with me.

Let's start with the thermostat.

Thermostats are NOT installed in your car just to provide heat in the winter. This VERY important mechanical part is made to maintain your engine at PROPER operating temperature. Virtually ALL cars will not run properly, or efficiently, if the thermostat is not functioning , ie: closed, open, or removed.

If you have cooling issues with your car, DO NOT replace your thermostat with a colder opening unit, if your thermostat is in fine working order, you should look elsewhere to diagnose cooling problems, such as a clogged radiator.

A colder thermostat will cause your engine to think it is still in the 'warm-up' mode, and that mode requires more fuel into the combustion chamber to keep the engine running up to full operating temperature, if you have a cabureted model, and a cold running engine, pop the air cleaner lid off, and have a peek down into the carb, and you'll probably see the choke butterfly 1/2 open. Hence forth, dumping more fuel into the engine.
On fuel injected models, the cooler temperatures are compensated by dumping more fuel into the engine via the sensors that tell the ECM that the engine is still cold.

So what's the big deal about dumping more fuel into a semi warm engine ?

Your engine is made of many different metals (iron block, aluminum head), and these metals expand and contract at different rates at different temperatures.
These expansion rates are figured into the design of the engine, and are set to be optimally efficient at a specified temperature...192/195* on Honda's. (and most other cars today)

Take a look at a piston, get a micrometer, and measure the piston at the skirt, the across the pin boss.
You will find quite a difference in the measurement.
The reason for this, is that pistons are 'cam ground', this is done because the piston expands during warm up, and it is designed to be perfectly round at proper engine operating temperature. (otherwise, the piston would swell up and seize in the cylinder).

During the warm-up phase, your piston rings take up the slack, and will even produde more 'blow-by' with a cold engine.

Now, with the rings supporting a cool running engine, more fuel being dumped into the engine to keep it running, not ALL of that fuel is being burnt off by the ignition system, and guess what happens to all that burnt off fuel ?
...not only will it carbon things up dramatically, it will also wash the thin layer of oil off your cylinder walls, causing premature ring failure, premature cylinder wear, and if run in this condition long enough, it may also thin your oil to the point that camshafts, and main and rod bearings fail. It is also hard on seals and valves...all around not a good thing.

I hope this puts things a little more into perspective as to why I am so adamant about thermostats, and using the PROPER part.

Using a 160* thermostat is not a good thing, not for your engine, not for your wallet, and not for the environment. (try to pass a smog test with a cold engine).

If you have changed your thermostat, and still have cooling issues, it is cheaper to replace a radiator and flush the cooling system, rather than a new engine.
Plus you will save money at the gas pump.

johnwc723
01-27-2004, 03:13 PM
hmm my car never really warms up right, and i have TERRIBLE GAS MILEAGE, and i just freakin replaced the shit like 6months ago, really is the thermostat the only thing it could be?

TINBOAT
01-27-2004, 05:15 PM
That is the first indicator..John, dont procrastinate, look at the obvious, and spend 6 bucks and 20 minutes and change the thermostat, it may just be the e-ticket.
Before you delve into faulty sensors, and all sorts of exotic stuff that may SEEM like a better solution, (because NOBODY, including myself, wants to hear that a 5 dollar part can solve such a mystery), just tool on down to your local parts store, buy a thermostat and gasket, get some good antifreeze, may as well change the oil and filter while you're at it (spending more on parts might justify reasoning for avoiding the obvious)....and have at it !!!!

GOOD LUCK !!!

johnwc723
01-27-2004, 05:33 PM
heh, ohh i know i would have replaced it long ago but not all of us live on "space coast florida" heh (i wish i did ) i live in freakin wisconsin fuckin 20 out right now, ohh well i think ill do it anyways, hopefully that will solve it (i am replaceing tons of sensors too tho :)
thanks for teh help at any rate, i hope the autoparts store has a gasket, i dont think that "gasget maker" stuff works too well in 20deg temps.

TINBOAT
01-27-2004, 05:52 PM
Not to worry John...dont let my residence fool ya...I used to live in northern Canada, and cut mt teeth on repairing frozen vehicles under a parachute with a 'herman nelson' for heat...but that's another story....but I've never (thank God) had to thaw out a 3gee with a tiger torch....
...But please...Thermostat first...sensors later..(might save ya a few bucks)

TINBOAT
01-28-2004, 05:11 AM
...and as for gasket sealer, new thermostats come with a molded neoprene gasket, shouldnt be any need for sealer.
Good Luck !!!

nswst8
01-28-2004, 06:35 AM
Hey Tinboat, this is a great thread. Keep them coming. I agree with you 100% on the thermastat. Just one more add on if I may. It came to my experience that some aftermarket thermastats don't do very well.
My father had a 1995 Plymouth Acclaim I had to do the head gasket twice before we finally figured out the the aftermarket thermastat was not opening and closing properly and would fail.
Then as a last resort we bought a dealer thermastat $18.99 and the car ran perfect. So if you put in an aftermarket watch the opening and closing stages of the temp gauge, if it goes past normal open position, Pull it & Change it to Original Manufacturer Equipment.
Now I've never had a proplem with Honda, but I still use OEM honda.
Hope this helps.
And thanks again "Tinboat"
NSWST8 :cheers:

Blkblurr
01-28-2004, 08:41 AM
Thanks Tinboat. You did an outstanding job describing this and I hope people read this and try it before asking what else may be wrong. The funny thing is it's the easyest to try. Again, Great job.

NXRacer
01-28-2004, 09:34 AM
Tinboat, you have got to be the best n00b to this site in a while! Thanks for the info.

johnwc723
01-28-2004, 10:12 AM
nice i guess ill put in the oem shit as i need to go there today anyways, ill return my crappy slant stuff!

badmanferg
01-28-2004, 07:26 PM
good looks on the knowledge b....

-respect

danronian
01-29-2004, 12:57 PM
This should be put in the FAQ sub-forum so people can be referred to it when asking about what temp thermostat to use. (IMO of course)

soljaboy2000
01-29-2004, 01:10 PM
I change my my thermostat just for the hell of it and my mileage went up about 60 miles :D:D

racerx
01-30-2004, 11:17 PM
hmm, well what about a HIGH temperature thermostat? will that help or hurt any?

soljaboy2000
01-30-2004, 11:30 PM
That'll probaly cause detonation cuz your engine will too hot

Blkblurr
01-31-2004, 05:07 AM
Your engine was designed for a 192 to 195 therm. Don't mess with this. Spend your money doing other mods

Robs89LXi
01-31-2004, 09:13 AM
Tinboat, great thread. It is nice to hear someone who ACTUALLY knows what they are talking about post a thread. You did a great job of patiently and intricately describing things. There are so many post whores on here that are so quick to jump in with their OPINIONS or GUESSES without really knowing what they are talking about. All it does is add confusion, and a lot of time WRONG INFORMATION that can be detrimental to someone who actually has a problem. It causes more harm than help.

Thanks again, and please don't hesitate to add more pearls of wisdom to the board. We are all driving old cars, and these little bits of knowledge go a long way.

Keep it up :cheers: !

Rob.