road racing setup?

[speedpenguin]

well i don't know a lot, but i'm quite interested in tuning my 3gee for road racing. unfortunately i don't really have a good idea as to what the optimum engine setup would be. i like the suspension, and i figure new springs, weight shave, rear discs, etc are helpful, but i'm not sure what to do with that engine... turbo seems like a bad idea for road racing, but maybe i'm wrong, i've heard about torque steer issues with turbo FWD.
suggestions?

[bobafett]

suspension:
1) revalved biltiens or konis (with external adjustment mods) on all 4 corners
make sure you revalve them to the specs of the springs that u are using.

2) for springs/coils try out ground control with 450/450 springs, or go cheap with like dropzones, since they have the 450/450 spring rate.

3) since u have DX, LXi sway bars, and aftermarket front and rear strut bar

u will want a camber kit for everyday driving, but a certain ammount of camber will allow u better grip while racing

for engine setup it ALLLLL depends on how much u want to spend. but for starters get a 2.25" exhaust, high flow cat or test pipe, headers, cam, weber, ignition setup like msd6al and blaster2coil. or go with an EFI swap.

for engine the possibilities are limitless, like swap turbo etc... depends only on your wallet.

stainless braided brake line, and slotted/dimpled rotors and 88-89LXi front brake setup. as well as SEi rear disc setup

for weight u can gut interior and remove AC and PS for starters

also wings and stickers dont help ;) but im sure u knew that

[T's87lx]

who makes stainless braided brake line ive been looking for these for a long time never been able to find them

[smufguy]

I dont understand what you mean by road racing setup? I hope ur not talking about racing everyone on the street. Not a good place to test out ur racing skills ain mate? :D anyway. If u can afford to get another car, i would suggest u get a LX-i.

[bobafett]

who makes stainless braided brake line ive been looking for these for a long time never been able to find them

shit i cant remember, but i read it in a thread pretty recently, i think it was opmmotorsports or something... but do a search. i know it was recently discussed.

[Justin86]

so do you just want a fast street car or do you actually want to auto cross this car. There is a big diference between the two and what you can do.

[speedpenguin]

definitely talking about road racing as in the sport, also thinking autocross...
road racing in terms of on the street i call street racing so i know the difference, but sometimes i forget that not everyone thinks the way i do *_-

[speedpenguin]

so turbo is an option? i'm still worried about torque steer... control is something i like, which is why i'm not sure i want to remove the PS. AC is already disengaged and will be out out of there ASAP

[speedpenguin]

oh yeah one other thing, this car will still be my daily driver, so i can't go completely insane, fun as that might be, i still have to get to work

[bobafett]

losing power steering will give you a more connected feeling. most racers like it that way...

turbo IS an option. the size turbo u want will be dependent on what kind of racing/driving you want. tq steer can be a problem, but its really only a launch issue. once your moving u wont need to worry about it.

if u want to keep quick acceleration response build up a motor and use a smaller turbo like a .42/.48AR, it will have full boost by 2800-3000 rpm. :) u shouldnt be racing below 3000 rpm for any reason anyway. so when u nail it ur already in full boost and making good power. that little turbo doesnt have that bad of lag...

[Busted_Blue]

Without power steering the LXi steering wheel i had felt flimsy. (new steering wheel?)


definitely a good setup for autox that bobafett posted. Problem is getting..some Sei rear disc. I've been looking for that...at least not a new set.

[speedpenguin]

i found an almost completely intact SE-i at my local junkyard, after i knew it was a good car, but before i knew it had rear discs i could pull off (sobs). maybe it's still there, but probably not.
i've only driven w/o power steering once and i hated it. it was my mom's '81 tercel. i could not steer tight turns unless i wrestled the steering wheel, of course, it was not a 3gee, but i wish i could test steering before i take if off for good... so far as i know, cars that are supposed to have power steering ain't that great without it, but of course i don't have that much evidence to back anything up.
i like the way this car handles on corners already, but i guess experimentation is the only way to improve anything

[speedpenguin]

what kind of motor should i build?
i'm thinking A20A3/A4 w/ boosted compression and, of course, EFI swap to go with it, i hear the block doesn't have to be sleeved because it's cast iron, what else is necessary for a turbo block?
and do they make LSD for our cars?
also, if i wanted to go N/A is that a suitable alternative or is turbo or B-swap the only way to go
all of you have been really helpful so far, thx a lot!

[Justin86]

Adding a small turbo I still think is your best bet. Talk to SEAN about the turbo and his turbo kits he makes. Also look into weight reduction, pull everything out that you don't need and if you want bust out the cutter then remove some metal. :)

[Sean]

the turbo kit with turbo adds around 45lb to the front of the vehicle. it actually helps plant the tires a bit. Cant say much for tq steer. i disconeccted my power steering and since i did so it seems to have eased up alot. its a bitch to pull in and out of parking spaces but other then that its a whole lot more responsive. If you want a good corner carving turbo setup i can help you out with that. It would mean runnng a rather small turbo but the off idle to 5500 rpm band is super phat. Also this small and readily avaiable turbo ( not the garret) spool up incrediably fast. all i know is that the boost guage seems to folow the gas pedal. No bs it never ever lags. I could look at modifying this small turbo with some improved parts like a a hybrid and keep the fast spool but for road racing you want instant power. Ill see what i can come up with.

email me at

[email protected]

[Robs89LXi]

Hey, Sean. Just what small turbo are you refering to, and how much boost and hp would you estimate making with this?

[speedpenguin]

cool
so what do i need to do to this engine so it can handle the boost?
right now i'm thinking valves, pistons, reground cam... i'm lost past this point. the thing about knowledge is that you usually gain it from experience and experience is what i'm gaining right now. but i don't have very much yet *_*

[bobafett]

forged pistons and shot peen your rods and ur engine will hold 12psi if you have VERY solid engine management.
the other shit will help but its not NEEEEDED.

[speedpenguin]

so what is solid engine management?
and what else can help? i want this to last me a while

[bobafett]

well u will need either a standalone system, or get ahold of sean and talk to him about his GM ECM setup, it utilizes a knock sensor, and can retard timing via the computer, so it leaves u a much larger safety buffer than a "cheap" setup, like a SAFC and MSD BTM...

u can add parts like an intercooler, or front mount intercooler to keep charge temperatures down, (or just lower your boost ;) )

doesnt matter at all until u get EFI going though....

right now just think header cam webber and exhaust, see how happy u are with that setup, and when u want more just sell that shit to help urself buy the ECM and EFI swap... then ur ready for saving for turbo parts. :)

[speedpenguin]

i did a bit of research. EFI parts will cost me a total of about $400
since there's a lot of parts, i'd rather buy them a little at a time instead of buying parts i'm going to have to get rid of.
does a header help with turbo? i've heard headers are "not for turbo applications"
i'm definitely getting an intercooler, besides boosting HP they should help my engine last.

[bobafett]

when you run a turbo u need a totally different exhaust manifold than naturally aspirated.... so if u buy headers, u will have to sell them when u run turbo, cause u will need to buy a new manifold altogether

[Justin86]

It would help if you were to grab some books or something. Do a little reading on turbo basics to help get a better idea of what you should expect. Dragsport has a good turbo article in the january issue if you can still find it.

[speedpenguin]

that's what i thought about the headers.
can't find any tech books at the library, guess i'll have to go buy one... oh well.
reeeeally want an LSD, is there one available for our cars?

[speedpenguin]

still have doubts about PS, though. is there anything i have to do besides removing the unit and flushing the system? only reason i'm still wondering is that i talk to my dad, who i go to for advice sometimes since he's been maintaining cars since he was like 12, and he said that since the car is so front-heavy i'd have like 120lbs of resistance when trying to turn, yet i hear on this thread that this is not so...
forgive me, i'm annoying when i don't understand stuff

[A20A1]

Maybe 120 lbs of resistance when you're stopped, or if you had a steering wheel the size of a quarter. It really doesn't feel that way when moving though, just make sure your tire pressure is set high enough. It's a tighter feel, and I'd toss the PS in any car I owned, and I do. :D

Don't use a regualer header to make a turbo manifold... the flange thickness on most headers for our car is to thin. Also the pipe wall thickness is thinner.

I think LSD is the least of your worries... but if you really want it bad enough then anything is possible.

[Justin86]

For the LSD look in the How-To's. I can't remember what car it comes out but it is possible. Another thing to remember is that you are suppose to change the LSD every 30,000 miles and at a cost of $300 it can get spendy, just depends on how much you drive the car.

[speedpenguin]

cool, just what i needed to know, thanks.
struts/springs and camber kit
anti-sway and strut bars
PS and AC to be removed
rebuilt engine w/turbo manifold
cold air or water-injected intercooler
EFI conversion
brake conversion
wider intake
wider exhaust
new ECM
better wheels/tires
if i'm going to compete i'll probably need a roll cage to be legal
sounds like i have a lot to do!
did i miss anything?

[Justin86]

A lot of money to spend! :)

[speedpenguin]

oh, yes, this is going to take a couple years at least :help:
it's gonna be sooooooooo worth it, though
what about the tranny? should i use a A18 or keep it stock?
i'm more partial to keeping mine, if only because it's one less thing i have to buy... :rolleyes:
again, thanks a whole lot for putting up with my really annoying questions, but when i get to thinking about the car... well, i'm sure most of you know what it's like

[PhydeauX]

1st thing. Just show up at an auto-x with it stock. It'll do more for your driving then any of those parts will (gee I really wish I would listen to myself, but some times I think I like building the car more then driving it, that seems how my time/money gets spent too..). Alot of clubs have novice schools as well, also a good investment.

andy

[speedpenguin]

true, driving skills come with experience, not money.
now, to find an autocross...

[Justin86]

true, driving skills come with experience, not money.
now, to find an autocross...
Then have some fun ripping up that track. :D

[speedpenguin]

kicking ass in my white trash 3gee!!