89 LXi will start, won't run

[jadams]

I have been reading the existing threads but haven't found one exactly like this.

I have a problem with my 89 Accord LXi that has me baffled. I’m just throwing parts at it! The car has 235,000 miles on so I figured it could be almost anything.
This occurred after it ran out of gas. (may just be a coincidence)

The car starts right up, normally. It will idle a few minutes and then, after the idle drops down when it has warmed up some, any addition of throttle will cause it to stumble and choke down (although I don’t smell raw gas) and sometimes die. I cannot take it out on the road. Even racing the engine causes it to die. I can however get it to run smooth at 3-4000 rpm if I don’t try to accelerate.
Check engine light does not come on.

Here’s what I have done so far…
Replaced the fuel filter, fuel pump and screen, fuel pressure regulator, coil, plug wires, and coolant temperature sensor in that order.
No help.

The plugs are dry with no black buildup, almost too clean.
It seems as though the timing is retarded and will even occasionally backfire through the intake manifold and die(real stink). We checked the vacuum at the end of the intake manifold and vacuum was smooth and steady at 25 in hg. We did the Haynes manual test to see how quickly the vacuum dropped to see if the catalytic converter was stopped up… it apparently isn’t.
I tried to get a MAP sensor at Auto Zone but they say it is not available, as is the throttle position sensor. Are these dealer only parts? I was told that it wouldn’t start without the MAP sensor, but I question that it can only fail dead.

ANY ideas would be appreciated. Please help.

[89accordlxi]

I don't see fuel pump relay any where in your list of parts replaced. I have no idea where it is but that might be something you might want to check also..

Lean fuel mixture, timing and stuck intake valve or broken valve spring are some causes of intake backfire.

Check to make sure your distributor cap is not cracked

That's all I can come up with for now.

Hope this helps.

Good luck!!!

[shepherd79]

well you have EFI and it is a lot easier to work with that that damn carb.
did you look under the driver seat, see if the computer blinks. you may be able to read the code.
it can be one of the sensors.

[jadams]

I will look under the seat. I was thinking that the check engine light would have to come on for there to be codes.

thanks for the help, will let you know if any codes.

john

[accordlx]

I agree with the fuel pump relay response. It seems to me that you still have a fuel delivery problem. After trying to start the car several times, take out one of the spark plugs and see if it is wet with gas. If it is wet, the car is flooding, if it is dry, you have a bad fuel pump relay or a bad fuel pump. The gas is simply not getting to the cylinders.

[1988starter]

Try testing the ignition coil.

[jadams]

Thanks for the replies, I have not been able to try any of this yet, probably not until the weekend, but I have a few questions.

I already replaced the coil, no help. will check for cracks in dist cap.

The car will start, it just will not run when accelerated/racing engine. Wouldn't the fuel relay either work or not? can they fail "a little bit"? I will see about a new relay anyway, I'm not sure but there may be another circuit on it besides the fuel pump. I have already replaced the fuel pump. I will pull a plug when it dies, to see if it is wet or not.

As I understand it, the steady vacuum usually means the valves are ok. I can get the engine to run at steady rpm if I ease it up and recover from the attempts to die.

I haven't checked for flashing ecu light, will do that also, but the check engine light stays off, so it makes me think that the problem is not with a sensor, or a sensor is giving wrong reading and the ecu believes it.

I have ordered an oem manual from www.Helminc.com which apparently makes or distributes the Honda (and others) service manuals. Maybe that will help, but it will not arrive for another week, or so. could not wait for oem manual to come up on ebay.
I have been using the Haynes manual.

I appreciate your help and input and I appreciate this forum. I'm sure I will be referring to it for some time.

Any further help and clarification will be gratefully received, This is my first Honda, and my first fuel injected engine. nothing newer than 1988 besides the LXi.

thanks,
john

[89LXi]

Check the ignition switch in the steering column. Mine did something similar and after going through distributor, coil, wires, plugs, and a few other things, found the ignition switch to be bad. My mechanic just replaced part of the switch assembly so I could continue using my original keys.

[87accordlxph]

It might almost be the 02 sensor.

Does your car run rich?

-Mike

[POS carb]

sounds like your ECU is in "Limp-mode", it's missing an input of some sort, that or maybe your fuel pump inhaled a piece of something from the bottom of the tank? Try running a fuel system cleaner.

Test fuel pressure and voltage to the fuel pump, that could tell a lot

[Jareds 89 LX-i]

This may sound stupid, but have you checked to make sure the TPS is plugged in nice and tight? I forgot to plug mine back in once (duh) and it would start, but it ran really rough when you gave it gas. Just a thought.... :)

[damackz]

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2344

had the same problem man replaced my CTS and fuel pressure Reg and it turned out fine. I replaced my fuel filters twice, fuel pump, cleaned the gas tank, cleaned the injectors and fuel rail, changed the cap, plugs...........check to see if the gas reaches the fuel rail if does.......its the FPR also check ur vacuum hoses for leaks............try spraying some carb cleaner in ur TB and see what happens :pimp:

[accordlx]

If the car starts, will it continue to run without racing the engine? If it does then you have a distributor problem. Either the pickups are bad or the vaccuum advance is not working. If it dies after only a few seconds, chances are your fuel pump is partially clogged.

[Lester Lugnut]

It's interesting this occurred after running out of fuel and it's also interesting that your plugs are dry - almost too dry. Sounds like there may be some type of fuel starvation.

I'd start out testing the fuel pressure regulator at idle. Your system seems to be ok at that point, but it would be interesting to know if idle speed fuel pressure was up to spec. If you do not have a tester, a good independent shop could run a test for a few bucks.

I would be puzzled as to why the distributor/advance mechanism is all of a sudden faulty, though it's entirely possible.

I wonder if there's a TSB(trouble service bulletin) @ ALLDATA.COM that deals with this sort of thing right after a Honda(89) has run out of gas?

Some FI(fuel injected) cars require special handling after an out-of-fuel situation.

[jadams]

thanks for all your help.

I finally solved the problem. I was going to replace the distributor cap earlier but the previous owner said that he had just had a tune up. That obviously didn't include the distributor cap. I replaced the distributor cap and rotor and it runs again. The running out of gas must have had nothing to do with the problem, just misdirected my work.

I now have another problem, but it is different enough that I will start another thread.

thanks,
john