Ignition System Thread (UNDER CONSTRUCTION)

[Techno]

DO I need to upgrade my ignition on my LX? All I did is upgrade the plugs, wires and coil. Do I need the MSD ignition?

Techno

[A20A1]

you don't need anything... but it would be nice to have the MSD.

[Techno]

Which MSD unit should I get? And would I need the adapter Cap?

Techno

[A20A1]

no you don't need the adapter cap... i think the adapter cap is for cars that had an internal ignition coil and they needed to convert to an external one... I could be wrong though.

[shepherd79]

yeah mike you are right about that one.

i don't see a point in MSD for carbed cars. expecially if you have stock carb.

[gekko]

Originally posted by shepherd79
yeah mike you are right about that one.

i don't see a point in MSD for carbed cars. expecially if you have stock carb.

well i got EFI and would it be any use of upgrading to a MSD ign ?

[shepherd79]

IMO if you have stock engine and not planning on adding turbo, all you need is better coil.

[gekko]

Originally posted by shepherd79
IMO if you have stock engine and not planning on adding turbo, all you need is better coil.

Got any good tips for what coil i should get ?

[bobafett]

accel super stock i think its called

[A20A1]

MSD Blaster SS <--- But I think it says it works better when used with the MSD 6AL

[1988starter]

I have a 6al and when I get more money I am gtting an ss coil to replace my blaster

[thundertank]

whats up guys (and the few girls here)? hey i am thinking about getting an msd ignition and was just wondering which one everyone uses in there car.(car meaning 3g) and what type of difference it made. so if you could hook up a part number on the one that best suits our car that would be great.


also has anyone done head work to there car? and what type of gains did you get from it? thanks in advance.

ignition box

[1988starter]

I am using a 6al with a blaster two coil but I am upgrading to this.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2431375440&ssPageName=ADME:B:EOAB:US:6
http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_b/304000-304999/304085_20_full.jpg

[thundertank]

does it matter whether it goes on a carbd or fi engine?

[1988starter]

Nope

[Swan]

hey man, I just got the 6al and blaster 2.... I started installing it, and noticed the coils are different... how do we wire it up? or rather, what do we do with the two harnesses?? I mean, they both have blue, and black/yellow wires... what do we do with that?? also, what's the best way to mount the coil? or maybe its just that my car's retarded and the only one in the world that has that kind of coil...squared on the bottom, 2 plugs each with two different posts inside, both looking the exact same except the size, and one has a ground wire...need help with this immediately, please... thanks.... Twan

[NXRacer]

man i went to go get one of those accel coils and i could SWEAR the parts store wanted like 200 bucks for the thing. Are they normally that cheap? (25 bucks)

[ryan88lxi]

ive heard that msd ignitions dont make much of a difference in hondas since teh oem ignitions are so good.

[adams86lxi]

yea, accel coils are 30 bucks at pep-boys here!:D

[Swan]

1988starter, I gotta find a way to mount my 6al... I've got the stock intake, so I can't fit it directly behind the manifold.... and everywhere else on the firewall is too crowded to squeeze the 6al in it.... is there anything I can remove to make it fit?

[1988starter]

can you move it to the left of mine. Some people mount it inside their cars on the floor under a seat. Or get a cheap 92 civic intake off ebay

[Kevin]

I have an Msd 6a which is without the rev limiter and i noticed a good diffrence!! It matters what you have done to your car!!! I have a CAI, header exhaust h22 injectors accel coil and advanced timeing!! Will alot of shit a better ignition you will notice a diffrence!!! :)

[Swan]

yeah, I've tried to put it on the firewall, to the left of where yours is, and it still wouldn't work, because of that hump where the engine mount is... plus, I don't wanna cover up the VIN.... I'm making a custom dash, so I won't have it in the window anymore...I tried moving the emissions box to the right, so the VIN is between the two mounting holes of the box, and then I could put the MSD where the box was... but that didn't work either... so here's what I'm going to do... since I'm making a dash, and I'm removing any and all A/C, I can mount it on the firewall in the cabin! and i"m sure I can find a hole already drilled into the firewall, to make it easier! thanks for the help tho!

[original2k]

sup crew, i did a few searches and didn't really come up with much, and i checked the how-to and the link doesn't work anymore *attention mods* but anyway i was wondering if any1 has done an ignition system upgrade, what are the benefits of installing one? and which do i use? since i got these 11mm crane wires i'm looking to get the most out of my puchase, if any1 has any experience in this area, a little enlightenment is greatly appreciated as i plan to do an upgrade myself, thx guys :wave:

p.s.-btw if any1 DOES have a link on this subject, screw my thread and just post it or im it to me lol thx

ignition box

[zero.counter]

A hotter, more powerful spark ignites your fuel/air mixture much quicker, reliably and more efficiently; thus increasing horsepower and torque, whereas fuel consumption and emissions are decreased in the process.

[original2k]

really? are u serious? fuel and emissions decrease? so not only does it increase power but it also is good for your car? that's awesome, do u have any info on a good setup for our cars or a nice resource page? i'm really in the dark on this subject but i wanna learn more....

[Gregg86DX]

While it's true that a good ignition system can improve engine performance in every way, I think the reality is you should not expect much improvement over a good-condition, stock electronic ignition. I have worked with ignition systems on other types of cars and my personal experience was an aftermarket ignition box (like an MSD 6AL) only became 'necessary' when working on a boosted engine, at high RPM.

I'm not saying it won't help, but there are a lot of other mods you could do before worrying about ignition.

Gregg

[Justin86]

Yea it will help burn more cylinder gases thus putting less crap out the tail pipe. Stock it dosen't make a huge difference but with n20 and or turbo it is a real good idea.

[original2k]

i c i c, that's what i really wanted to know, if it's not gonna make much of an improvement then i don't see a real point in getting it at this time, well i guess i'll look into the header instead, but thanks for the info guys

[Justin86]

Oh yea get a header first. You allways want to get I/H/E first then expand from there with cam, ignition, etc.

[wprocomp]

I have thought about doing a 6-AL setup...but thats not until I get a cam reground and a weber 32/36...but would it be needed,is the honda igntion system enough...a coil for sure though...

[1988starter]

I have 6al and a Accel 14000 series huge coil it is a lot better than the blaster 2 coil. When I ran the 6al with the blaster 2 I noticed an overall smoothness when driving and a small power gain I/H/E with a cam. Now with the 14000 series ACCEL coil I noticed a much better top end and over all better acceleration.

[original2k]

i c i c, i was also looking into getting a mild cam grind, cuz it is my daily driver, so now i'll follow your lead and get the headers and cam grind first, then i'll look into the ignition setup, question, what's the difference in the 2 coils that u tried out?

[HostileJava]

My guess would be that the Accel 1400 puts out more voltage.

[1988starter]

Below is a picture of the accel 140001 coil I would use that or a MSD SS coil I found the blaster coil does not compair at all. The accel one puts out more voltage and I believe had other different properitys such as turn ratio and resistance values

http://www.texassizedeals.com/aaa/111903a027.jpg

[87AccordsterLx]

Don't expect much as far as power increase but your car will run more efficiently. As the others have said, it's really not worth it on a stock setup. Your best bang for the buck is a header or cam-regrind. You can get both for around the same price. The labor is where the cam install makes it more difficult. If you can do it yourself then a good cam regrind will run you about $180. A header can be $150+ depending on if it is used and or the name you decide to buy.

[A20A1]

Originally posted by wprocomp
I have thought about doing a 6-AL setup...but thats not until I get a cam reground and a weber 32/36...but would it be needed,is the honda igntion system enough...a coil for sure though...

You need a weber? I might be selling mine after I test out my super modded stock carb.

[original2k]

actually i did notice (with just the crane wires) that they killed my damn backfiring idle! man that shit was annoying when i listened to it but it seems to be about 90% gone now, so i'm glad about that, but as for the cam regrind i do have a reliable guy that can help me install one...*cough*shephard79*cough* aka partna in crym hehe but yeah i got me a new list to work on,.... not to change subjects, but what exactly is so super modded about your super modded keihin A20?DO TELL!

[HostileJava]

Well rather then start a new thread, I did a search and am not sure that I have everything I need to install my MSD Blaster 2 Coil. It says it does not have a ballist resistor. Do I need one to install it? I think I remember reading somewhere before that you don't need one. But I'm not sure.

Edit:
Nevermind I found it.
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24564&highlight=ballist

[Elijah]

I really noticed a difference in high rpm's when I installed my msd sci,coil and 8.5 mm magnecore.

[A20A1]

Originally posted by original2k
not to change subjects, but what exactly is so super modded about your super modded keihin A20?DO TELL!

It's supa modded das Y.

Check the links in my sig, I'm sure one will lead you there... BTW the Weber & adapter plates are being sold for $150.

[wprocomp]

hey A20 I may be interested if you include the linkage man:D

[ryan88lxi]

i plan on getting a full ignition in the next month or so. i plan on getting the msd sci ignition module, msd blaster coil, and msd wires. only problem is that msd doesnt make the wires for 3 gs. my question is, would the wires made for the 4th gen accord work? seems like they would. or maybe another honda? thanks for the help!

ignition box

[Cyric_accord]

Well, you could use the Magnacor wires in place... I'm not sure if I would use ignition wires from a different car, but I suppose it would work... Have you tried finding MSD wires for 84-87 Preludes, since they use the same A20 engine?

[johnwc723]

yeah ryan lemme know what you find as im getting a new coil too and i prolly want some better wires also look a couple threads down at the one i made about wires, someone put some sites in there on where to get plug wires

[ryan88lxi]

yeah i checked for the preludes wires, i thought about the same engine thing. unfortunately they didnt have them for the prelude either. i dont want magnecor, i want to keep everything msd because im picky that way haha. any more leads? would the wires be compatible from the newer 90 to 93 accord?

[johnwc723]

i just bought these actually http://www.optauto.com/webstore/product_information.asp?number=CRN-286-4533&variation=&aitem=47&mitem=80&back=yes&dept=1656
they seem like a pretty good deal, really thick too!! (origionally $125?!)

[mykwikcoupe]

My car came with msd wires so I know there out there. Im not sure what car they came off of but they look and fit pretty good. Ask b16 ed or pimp88accord. It used to be his car

[johnwc723]

definetly check out http://www.optauto.com/webstore/product_information.asp?number=CRN-286-4533&variation=&aitem=47&mitem=80&back=yes&dept=1656 they look really good!

[1988starter]

screw MSD get magnecor they are better any way

[joker2]

I have to agree with 1988starter on this one because the Magnegor wires are very nice wires.... But if you have to have MSD wires so bad just buy them as a wire kit from them and you'll just have to cut them to your length and put the ends on them yourself, not to hard..... But please get the proper wire size for your car because I'm tired of seeing people who understand that bigger is not always better... :rolleyes:

[ryan88lxi]

magnecor is better than msd? i havent heard that one before. i dont want like some 10mm wires though, i think the msd ones were 8.5 so i guess thats the biggest i would go. are there magnecore wires made for our cars specifically? and why are tehy better than msd. i thought that msd would be the best since they make all that ignition stuff. thanks for the information though!

[joker2]

Sorry if I confused you but I'm not saying that Magnecor is better than MSD because they are both very good wires.... And yes Magnecor makes wires specifically for our cars and they come in the 8.5 size.... I also run a MSD ignition system and run Magnecor wires, 8.5's and can say that it fits my needs nicely :)

[joker2]

I just noticed your setup on your car and we basically have the same thing going on except I run a port matched b16 intake manifold but everything else you have listed is what I have..... :cheers:

[1988starter]

I have the magnecors that are made for our cars nice wires here is the site
http://www.magnecor.com/magnecor1/main.htm. I believe the quality is better esp if you liik at the winding cores seperate. But don't get me wrond MSD is still some good wires

[Cyric_accord]

magnecor is better than msd? i havent heard that one before. i dont want like some 10mm wires though, i think the msd ones were 8.5 so i guess thats the biggest i would go. are there magnecore wires made for our cars specifically? and why are tehy better than msd. i thought that msd would be the best since they make all that ignition stuff. thanks for the information though!


The Magnacor wires that you can buy for the A20 is the Magnacor KV85 Competition Wires, 8.5mm cores.

[ryan88lxi]

even with the gude stuff? how did the ignition system treat you? feel anything? i plan on getting the MSD SCI module and the blaster coil, i guess i can grab those magnecors as well. this is after i get my rims though, it should be all together by the first week of april. im getting flat black rota circuit 8s by the way :cheers:

[Elijah]

I have the MSD SCI ,Blaster ss coil and magnecore wires.Trust me u will like it.They are a really good plug wire.

[johnwc723]

well i just installed a blaster 2 in there on my car, i still have stock wires that are falling apart, it is slippery out but i think i have noticed a little smoother idle as well as a little better accleration and "umph" when i press down the pedal, or maybe im feeling it cause i want to feel it? (i need a placibo)

[joker2]

By just adding the new coil you should feel the idle smoothen out a little better and accelaration should also be a little smoother.... What people have to understand is that the whole concept behind any aftermarket ignition system is to supply a certain rate of spark, each system should have it listed, throughout the entire powerband.... Unfortunately, the stock system can't do that so at higher RPMs the spark decreases.... Now johnwc723, when you add the final piece to the puzzle, ignition system, than you'll start to get more efficacy within the cylinders because now that spark will be more consistant....

[troutz15]

Ay, what igntion systems does anyone have in their carbed 89 lx, or 3g in general i guess, if it doesnt matter if ur carbed or not. i want a MSD but i wanted to know if anyone has one on their 3g already.

ignition box

[A20A1]

You mean like the 6AL?

I wanted to get the 6ALN
Right now I just have ACCEL coil and wires

[shepherd79]

upgrading ignition won't add HP unless your engine is making a hell lot of HP to start with.
the best ignition upgrade for carb is to upgrade the coil. get yourself Accel Super coil.
it will smoth out some idle and it should increase your gas mileage by very little.

IMO, MSD ignition is a waist of money unless you are going to pump out serious HP.

[Elijah]

In my 89 LXi I have the msd sci msd blaster ss coil.And in my 89 SEi I have the msd 6al and msd blaster ss coil.Oh and they both have 8.5mm magnecore wires.And they will both have boost in the next couple months.The SEi will have it withen a week.The kit is in the mail.It should be here today or tomorrow.

[ET2]

If your going to spend the money on a ignition system go for one with an adjustable retard setup so if you want to add nos or a turbo you will be ready check out this crane cd system
http://store.summitracing.com/partdetail.asp?part=CRN%2D6000%2D6466

[riced_roach]

the point of buying an aftermarket ignition is to have the additional options of having a timing retard and 1st and 2nd stage rev limiter. Having a high c/r engine does require an ignition system with more KV power potential. perhaps you'll run smoother but otherwise your wasting money. Piece of mind for a mild engine but a requirement for a serious one.

[3rd gen 89 se-i]

i just installed my coil and msd 6a ignition system the only problem is that the speakers pick up the motor noise.its weird i don't know.can some one let me know how to fix it?

ignition box

[A20A1]

how are you running your wires and your grounds?
What spark plug wires are you using?

[PhydeauX]

Msd makes a noise filter capacitor that you can pop in there to take some of that out as well. I've never had a problem with noise, then again.. my car doesn't have a radio...

andy

[Blkblurr]

High energy ignition systems produce much more rf than lower energy stock ignition sytems especially if you use solid core wires. Lower resistance in the wires allows more current to flow to produce a spark and therefore creates more radio frequency energy. This rf will couple to your wires and get into your electronics and show up as radio noise. Filters are the best way to reduce this but most likely yoou will not eliminate it completely.

[bobafett]

yeah i have the same noise. i am going to relocate the battery eventually and isolate the power to my stereo better. :) its not THAT annoying though.... :)

[3rd gen 89 se-i]

well i guess iam gonna get a thicker ground for my amp.and see if that does the trick to lower the noise.aslo maybe move the ground to a better location.
thanks fellas for the advice.

[hondamanlxi]

hey guys i just got the msd 6a installed and i got a few bugs!
1)The tach is now way more jumpy (already did this sometimes),you know jumping needle..no rpm change
2) slight miss/stumble sometimes at low rpms(never at idle or full throttle). Nothing major, but noticeable

did i already have these problems and the msd is amplfing them?

ignition box

[k-roy]

For the tach you should check the wiring. The wiring runs from the positive of the Coil to the gauge itself, and then there is a ground back there. If it all looks good then I say get a new tach.

[1988starter]

sounds like your distributer is on it's way out and was long before the msd

[hondamanlxi]

yeah kroy, but the stock tach does it too! im go/ing over the wiring in the morning!

EDIT: yeah starter that what i thought! could it be my old coil?

[1988starter]

yeah kroy, but the stock tach does it too! im go/ing over the wiring in the morning!

I ashould also mention mine did it as well before and after the msd I just bought an autozone dist. 200 bucks lifetime warenty

[1988starter]

yeah kroy, but the stock tach does it too! im go/ing over the wiring in the morning!

EDIT: yeah starter that what i thought! could it be my old coil?


Could be I would check your dist see if there is red dust inside it is a sure sign of worn bearings.

[TWOLOUDNPROUD]

I had the same problem with my A6 the igniter on the distributor is going bad it will make your tack jump and the motor miss

[hondamanlxi]

is just the igniter replaceable?

ahhh shit, i guess ill just get a new dist and quit putting it off...... :rolleyes:
thanks guys

[TWOLOUDNPROUD]

You can buy just igniter a new distributor is like $250.00 the igniter is about $93.00

[netfreak]

http://dustin_palmer.tripod.com/Prelude/msd.html

thats what i followed to install my MSD SCI and SS blaster coil. works flawlessly for me. might be able to get info from that, but i'm not sure if the accord has the same wiring.

[hondamanlxi]

well guys, under the cap was full of red dust.... i guess ill pull 200 bucks outta my ass!

Thanks for the help

[mag_pbg]

I was looking at www.planetperformance.com and saw Nology has a Ignition Amplifier it is called then Nology Power Core, and they are only $55, I wa wondering if they would work, except they have Ohm ratings and I have no idea what Ohm range I need.

E: ignition box

[Magny]

Essential for high compression and high RPM engines

Perfect ignition upgrade for vehicles where the ignition coil is incorporated within the distributor

Simply connect the PowerCore amplifier to the stock coil and get up to 50% more spark power

its just an amplifier that boosts your electrical firing of the ignition, the Ohmage oar is just how much resistance or say flow the thing will withstand or give. so think of it like a capacitor to a stereo system, it just stores it and gives it to the coil but much quicker instead of having to drag it through the loooong line of the battery to the coil.

Or someone else can tell me that I am wrong about this, I am really trying here

[mag_pbg]

Tell me if Im wrong but isn't MSD just a ignition amplifier, or is there more to it then that, I mean for the money and to boost some hp would the Nology work, for the time being.

[HostileJava]

http://www.nology.com/power.html

It looks like we would have no problem using them, as to the ohm rating though, I think that's somthing that someone has to look up in a shop manual.

[mag_pbg]

I think I will prob. go with the 2.5-3.0 Ohm load, something low. Uless someone knows what Ohm rating I need.

[mag_pbg]

Hi, here in about a week I should have enough $$$ to buy a MSD-5 Ignition Box. I was wondering if anyone has one, or any experence with one. I don't really need a MSD-6 becuase I honestly don't have that many mods, but I would like to have a little more umph and a little better gas mileage.

ignition box

[Elijah]

Gas mileage will increase.But for the umph part dont count on noticeing a difference.
I put the 6al in my wifes SE-i and the SC-i in my lx-i.It is pretty easy with the how-to on the forum.

[shepherd79]

i never liked MSD, so i got crane Hi-6s ignition, with crane spark plugs and Nology plugs. I all have to say is holy crap. it pulls better during hot days.

[SteveDX89]

I've got the 6a on my car and I definitely think it helps with the gas mileage. That's a big plus due to my gear ratios. I should be getting 20-22 mpg but I get around 25 even running rich.

[mag_pbg]

So I shouldn't realy feel a difference in power¿ I know I have to upgrade the fuel, electrical, intake and exuast all to really get some power going¿

[keruhas184]

I wouldn't upgrade the ignition unless you're having trouble with it. Get some real mods, and add ignition at the end. I mean, get a coil, plugs and wires and do the mods.

[cvergi01]

I got the msd 6 and a blaster coil with no other real mods and I have restored faith in my car...better pull through the whole rpm range and smoother idle/acceleration, I say just get the 6 so it can power the mods that you do later