B18C1 Swap

[mjimenez]

Hi guys, actually i have 2 options: Rebuilt my 1986 LXI BT engine or make my dream and put a powerfull engine in my ride...

I'm thinking in an B18C1 for swap, please i would like to hear your comments first. Any help i will appreciate it.

Thanks :cheers:

[SteveDX89]

Please read this thread. You'll find out what you need to know. Prepare to spend a lot on this swap. It's gonna run probably up to 7-8 grand.

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=17520

[NXRacer]

why would you want to dump so much money into it for vcrap when for you can go BOOST??? for the cost of the motor, you could almost have your motor rebuilt and turbo'd. . . . . . .

[Justin86]

I though about swaping a B18C1 but the price and work of swaping it I could just buy a GSR or turbo the A20 for much less.

[Nuffice]

I would suggest a B16a2 over the B18c1. If done properly, you will have a better platform that the B18c1. The only thing that worries me is the weight of the car. A B16a2 with a 1.7L crank and a possile bore increase to 85MM.. 1.9L Goodness. You can always rebuilt the A20a3 w/ some High Comp Pistons, New Rods & Work on the head.

[Project-LXi]

Well, I say go for the b18c1!!! I did, or rather still am piecing it all together, only real drawback id say is $$$. IMO dont buy a b16 - they are ment to power a civic, a car lighter than a 3gee . The lightest gsr teg that saw a b18c1 weighs the same as a fully loaded 4 door LX-i with a 2 liter IRON block engine in it, therefore significantly LESS than a teg when equiped with its engine. And as for boring a 1.6 to 1.9 y??????? Im sure you would be sacrificing lots of reliabilty, of course maybe you dont care, but my car is still my daily grind. Id say you have 2 options:

1) 6k (realisticly) for a reliable quik 200ish HP turbo A20A3 or BT using Sean's kit. probbly the best way to go if looking to save $$$

2) 8-10k (again realisticly) to get the b18c1 and a few minor to moderate power adders. 190 - 210 HP, but a much better platform with loads of aftermarket support and room left for boost.

Of course nobody is right all the time, so if you see an error in what ive said plz feel free to point it out.

Whatever road you go, it should be a lot of fun, and in the end you will be happy because even tho you couldve bought a used car just as fast with the money you spent, thats the lazy ass unoriginal thing to do. :)

[Project-LXi]

why would you want to dump so much money into it for vcrap when for you can go BOOST??? for the cost of the motor, you could almost have your motor rebuilt and turbo'd. . . . . . .

no turbo lag!

more relible!!

less constantly replacing clutches!!!

and finally.......

NEWER TECH!!: and no mater what u may argue otherwise it is a BETTER starting platform. More expensive? no doubt, but if you put an equal amount of work into that "vcrap" engine you'll smoke the crap out of a20s all day. :cool2:

[Nuffice]

Well, I say go for the b18c1!!! I did, or rather still am piecing it all together, only real drawback id say is $$$. IMO dont buy a b16 - they are ment to power a civic, a car lighter than a 3gee . The lightest gsr teg that saw a b18c1 weighs the same as a fully loaded 4 door LX-i with a 2 liter IRON block engine in it, therefore significantly LESS than a teg when equiped with its engine. And as for boring a 1.6 to 1.9 y??????? Im sure you would be sacrificing lots of reliabilty, of course maybe you dont care, but my car is still my daily grind. Id say you have 2 options:

1) 6k (realisticly) for a reliable quik 200ish HP turbo A20A3 or BT using Sean's kit. probbly the best way to go if looking to save $$$

2) 8-10k (again realisticly) to get the b18c1 and a few minor to moderate power adders. 190 - 210 HP, but a much better platform with loads of aftermarket support and room left for boost.

Of course nobody is right all the time, so if you see an error in what ive said plz feel free to point it out.

Whatever road you go, it should be a lot of fun, and in the end you will be happy because even tho you couldve bought a used car just as fast with the money you spent, thats the lazy ass unoriginal thing to do. :)

The GS-R is probably the worst engine out of the 4 B-series VTEC engines. It's the only one that does not make 100hp per liter. It's an easy swap because of it's torque, but it's not a high monster like the B16A/B or B18c-R. Still a good engine and it makes the most mid-range torque. 92-93 GS-R came stock w/ a B17a1 and it was a pretty decent car. The reason I suggested the B16 was because it's the cheapest B-Series platform and if you bore & resleeve, you will have a nice high reving power producing platform.

[Justin86]

NEWER TECH!!: and no mater what u may argue otherwise it is a BETTER starting platform. More expensive? no doubt, but if you put an equal amount of work into that "vcrap" engine you'll smoke the crap out of a20s all day. :cool2:
Well I'm not so sure about beating the crap out of an A20. I have seen Civic's with the GSR swap pushing over 500 hp and only running mid 11's. Yet with the A20 you can have less hp for less money and still run side to side with the +500hp Civic. It's about the engine design the A20 dosen't need to have the shit reved out of it to make 500 hp like the B-series. Hey I wanted to do the GSR swap too with turbo but after I look at the total price of it I could turbo the A20 for much less $$$ and be just as fast.

[Hash_man_Se_i]

Maybe I just havent been on the site too much lately... but I have yet to see real 1/4 mile ET's or Dyno numbers for sean's turbo kit... and the lack of a strong enough clutch still bothers me.


The GS-R is probably the worst engine out of the 4 B-series VTEC engines. It's the only one that does not make 100hp per liter. It's an easy swap because of it's torque, but it's not a high monster like the B16A/B or B18c-R. Still a good engine and it makes the most mid-range torque. 92-93 GS-R came stock w/ a B17a1 and it was a pretty decent car. The reason I suggested the B16 was because it's the cheapest B-Series platform and if you bore & resleeve, you will have a nice high reving power producing platform

I dont know what you are smoking... but the GSR we are talking about, was with the B18c1... it has 180HP if you get a JDM engine... if it is USDM, then 170hp. Either way, the B18 is a way better platform then the B16. It has more torque, larger displacement, and better potential than the B16.

[Nuffice]

I dont know what you are smoking... but the GSR we are talking about, was with the B18c1... it has 180HP if you get a JDM engine... if it is USDM, then 170hp. Either way, the B18 is a way better platform then the B16. It has more torque, larger displacement, and better potential than the B16.

It's not a very popular platform in JDM Land for a reason.. It has the worst flowing head of any B-series head. If you notice the B18cR or B18c5 is built like a B16, has basically the same head and power peak points.. VTEC xover on a GS-R is 4400, on a B16, B17, B18c5 is 5600. GS-R is great mid-range engine, but it's the greatest High end engine. If you had read what I posted, you would have noticed I wrote 100hp per liter not total hp. :cool:

[SteveDX89]

A C1 swap is not worth the extra cost over a B16. You get 10 horses and approx. 11 more lb-ft. torque. Let me see $3000 for the B16 or $8000 for the C1. Also the B16 has a better rod/stroke ratio and better flowing head. The B16 head is second best flowing head behind the C5. You can make those 10 ponies up with the addition of a header back exhaust for another $700. That's just a guess too. You can probably get it cheaper. Also the B16A1 has no OBD issues and a cable tranny already. Plus it's the easiest swap to do besides the JDM B20.

[Nuffice]

A C1 swap is not worth the extra cost over a B16. You get 10 horses and approx. 11 more lb-ft. torque. Let me see $3000 for the B16 or $8000 for the C1. Also the B16 has a better rod/stroke ratio and better flowing head. The B16 head is second best flowing head behind the C5. You can make those 10 ponies up with the addition of a header back exhaust for another $700. That's just a guess too. You can probably get it cheaper. Also the B16A1 has no OBD issues and a cable tranny already. Plus it's the easiest swap to do besides the JDM B20.

Excellent! Sounds like your getting ones these??

[Justin86]

Maybe I just havent been on the site too much lately... but I have yet to see real 1/4 mile ET's or Dyno numbers for sean's turbo kit... and the lack of a strong enough clutch still bothers me.
Well SEAN has posted some hp and tq numbers and they are pretty good, and the clutch problem is solved. SEAN found a place to make us a HEAVY duty clutch/ preasure plate, and an aluminum flywheel. It isn't a cheap package but it will hold anything you thrown at it. :)

[Busted_Blue]

i was thinking of making my car a car that will be fun to take up the mountains. I'm already saving up (not exactly knowing what i want) but still saving up nonetheless.

does a B16A run into torque problems? or does generally a B series engine with vtec run into lower torque issues? Perhaps a b16a would be a viable engine for my purposes...but i'll research a little more. (besides i got a lot more to save up :( )

[Nuffice]

i was thinking of making my car a car that will be fun to take up the mountains. I'm already saving up (not exactly knowing what i want) but still saving up nonetheless.

does a B16A run into torque problems? or does generally a B series engine with vtec run into lower torque issues? Perhaps a b16a would be a viable engine for my purposes...but i'll research a little more. (besides i got a lot more to save up :( )


Why would you want a Honda to take up to the mountains?? SUV'S!!

[Justin86]

well then just keep the A20 and swap in the lude tranny. Those gear ratios will be better for quicker acceleration or going up the mountains. But still why take a car in the Mts, why not a truck that has some ground clearance?

[Busted_Blue]

well then just keep the A20 and swap in the lude tranny. Those gear ratios will be better for quicker acceleration or going up the mountains. But still why take a car in the Mts, why not a truck that has some ground clearance?


sorry to put the wrong picture in your minds, but i meant, mountain roads. Similar to auto crossing but with the inclination involved.

http://www.pashnit.com/roads/cal/LickObservatory.htm

I've been loving this road since i started school in san jose which is 10minutes away.

[Justin86]

Yea thats what I kind of thought but not every place has paved mountain roads. Half of the Mt. roads around here are paved and most of them are pretty rough.

[Busted_Blue]

Yea thats what I kind of thought but not every place has paved mountain roads. Half of the Mt. roads around here are paved and most of them are pretty rough.


Well, the car will be having fun in the nice roads around my area, as well as perhaps autox. Friend has a b18c1 sitting in garage with a y1 tranny for about 2grand..possibly. He crashed his teg and he took out the engine for us. :) anyways, IS this engine actually that bad of an engine as nuffice says? Noted that when I go around mountain roads, my RPM for my accord is usually in the middle of 3-5k rpm. Would the B18C1 be optimal for mid range torque? The GSR does have that dual stage intake manifold similar to the 89 accord manifold that hits at 5800 and the vtec hit at 4400. Sounds like an ideal car for mid range right?

[Justin86]

Yea that should be a good set up especial with the Y1 tranny. If you can get the motor and tranny with the complete wire harness and ECU it might be worth it, then still all the mounting hardware is around $2,000 from Place Racing. So about $4K if you do all the wiring your self and thats a pretty good price for the swap.

[Chadroper]

IF the mounting hardware is around 1000 and the engine and transmission is around 2000 totoal where do you people get 10k from

[a-k-h]

ok so i can get a b16a1 with some things i need to put it in the car(wiring harness, tranny, ecu) . and it's obd-0 so i don't have to do a conversion right? besides the mounts how much to put it in? on http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=17520&page=2&pp=20 it's apparently 8-9000? but that's with the conversion. i need the info before that motor sells!

[SteveDX89]

I spent 5K to do the B16 swap. It's more than buying the stuff and dropping it in. You have stuff that breaks as you take it apart that needs replaced. You need to replace parts on the motor before you run it. You can half ass the job for cheaper but then you have reliability problems.

[Chadroper]

what stuff breaks as you take it apart. Some people can brake anything.

[sporkHSP]

you also have to check on p/s brackets, a/c brackets, axels, and wiring... my friend is putting a b16a in his 97 hx civic and is running into problems with all of the above, and thats a civic, im not sure about the swap for an accord, but it seems pretty realistic that the figures posted would be correct. he is gettin the civic hooked up for around 5-6000. chances are most shops would quote you really high because they dont really know what they would be doing for the particular car...

but if you got the cash, i think i would look at an h22, if they can fit in civics built for 1.6l then they should in theory fit in a 3g.

[Oyvind Ryeng]

Why swap? An A20 with headwork, rods and pistons will guaranteed be able to take 7000 RPM and way past 300 WHP (turbo, obviously). The only problem is the engine management, wich is easily solved by Seans GM-ECM.

[SteveDX89]

Why swap? An A20 with headwork, rods and pistons will guaranteed be able to take 7000 RPM and way past 300 WHP (turbo, obviously). The only problem is the engine management, wich is easily solved by Seans GM-ECM.

Because the B series is a better platform.

[ET2]

Man this could go on forever! Oh wait it has :lol: The reality is in the head no matter how you toss it turn it the a20 head will never out flow a b series head and that my friends is where the power is just face it and move on

[Hash_man_Se_i]

not only is the b-series a better flowing head, and better engine to start with, but the amount of aftermarket support for those engines is endless... and the amount for the a20 is fairly scarce.

I am planning a B-series swap for the spring, and can't wait. Only thing I am looking in to is the tranny problem... how hard is a hydro tranny swap anyways?? cuz I would much rather have an ITR tranny with an LSD, then a B16 cable tranny... plus, after driving numerous standard cars, i have come to like hydro trannies much more for driving sake.

[B16 ED9]

in the end it just boils down to your preference.

[Oyvind Ryeng]

The reality is in the head no matter how you toss it turn it the a20 head will never out flow a b series head and that my friends is where the power is
True, but the A20 can be built to make incredible power even tho' it doesn't have the most hitech head. Now, when the A20 can be used to make big power, why toss it out? Also, for the cost of even a B16A-swap, the A20 will have a whole-lot of looks-very-good-on-paper-HP, and my favourite dish; Torque.

[SteveDX89]

The only way to make power on an A20 is turbo. Not everyone wants that so where to turn afterwards. B series.

[a-k-h]

I spent 5K to do the B16 swap. It's more than buying the stuff and dropping it in. You have stuff that breaks as you take it apart that needs replaced. You need to replace parts on the motor before you run it. You can half ass the job for cheaper but then you have reliability problems.

what exactly did you replace? i bought the b16 cause my bud gave me an awesome deal. but i most likely won't drop it in till next summer since i'm tight on money. a found a shop to put it in at a reasonable price and now i just need the essentials so my car doesn't turn gay on me.

[ET2]

I think he means like the timing belt, plugs, wires, hose's, if I spent the time and money on a b16 swap I would rebuild the engine thats the only way you know for shure what you have and dont forget a good clutch setup, lite weight fly wheel ect ect ect ect bla bla bla bla

[SteveDX89]

I didn't rebuild the engine which I'm kind of regretting. However, it probably will get it over the winter.

[ET2]

hey stevedx89 which a16 do you have

[SteveDX89]

hey stevedx89 which a16 do you have

A16?

[ET2]

my bad b16, obd0 obd1 ? I'm thinking about doing the jdm b16a swap just looking for more information from someone who has done it

[a-k-h]

I didn't rebuild the engine which I'm kind of regretting. However, it probably will get it over the winter.

so what DID you replace? i don't want the shop to come up with some bullshit when they swap motors, so i would rather get the parts and turn down whatever they say. they're a new shop so i dunno if they're trustworthy. my brother is helping me pay for stuff because my a20 is starting to cash out on me!!!!