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View Full Version : MODIFICATION , AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION ( Torque Convertor / Shifting / Racing )



DanLXI88
03-11-2004, 10:00 PM
Hey any of you guys have a Auto trans? When you race it do you manual shift the gears ??


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AUTO TRANS COOLING MODS (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=32732)

AUTO TRANS FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=40885)

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Blue Impact
03-11-2004, 10:26 PM
Dude, how is it possible to manually shift gears in an auto tranny? Please explain, man.

BDaccordguy
03-11-2004, 10:34 PM
yes, u can manual shift the gears, if u put it in D3, itll start off in 1st, then once it hits second u drop it to D2 cuz that will allow u to rev up to redline i beleive or close, then shift to D3 and so on. I used to do it when i had my auto, and i think it helped a lil, but dont know for sure. So, So glad i have manual now.

A20A1
03-11-2004, 10:40 PM
Yes
- you can go past redline as long as you don't have a rev limiter or fuel cut relay
- you can hold gears 2 / 3 / 4
- you can start off in 2
- you can disconnect the throttle value cable from one side and then manually controll the throttle value cable to hold revs even when decreasing thottle value. This alows you to slow down for turns with mostly engine braking and minumum wheel braking which keeps the revs high for faster acceleration out of the turn.

No
- you can't hold 1st gear

DanLXI88
03-11-2004, 10:55 PM
I want to have some fun with it but I don't wanna phuck it up..

A20A1
03-11-2004, 10:59 PM
For you it's probably best you play it safe, you can still hold the gears but don't go past redline... I actually have a few mods to help my car deal with the extra heat and stress. Click on my sig pic to see my car domain site.

DanLXI88
03-11-2004, 11:23 PM
Thanks for the advice. Nice accord BTW! Have you changed the dash ? How much weight would you say you lost with removing the dash parts? Where do you tell what speed your doing?

A20A1
03-11-2004, 11:34 PM
The dash is really just a metal / plastic shell covered with carpet to reduce the glare... the speedo cable burnt-up so I removed it. I also removed the gas guage which has caused me to be stranded twice already. I tried aftermarket gas guages but they do wierd things... I'm guessing cause the voltage signal is different.
The dash isn't that heavy... the stuff under the dash for the fans, heater core, and A/C are the heavy parts, 15 lbs - 20 lbs?

I basicly drive slow and keep an eye on the gear and rpms to tell what speed I'm going.

RipClaw
03-15-2004, 01:23 PM
starting off in second is slow....ive learned i start in d3 and most of the time i drop it to 2 but i always start in d3 :cheers:

A20A1
03-15-2004, 02:16 PM
Lol yeah starting off in second is just that, starting off in second gear... I sure hope you don't race like that, unless you have a trubo or something.

I think everyone here used D3 to start.

accordlxi2.0
03-15-2004, 02:41 PM
i have over 200thou on my car.
i've neutral dropped, manual shift, you name i've may have done it.
and it still perform's well!

SeanTypeR
03-17-2004, 12:16 PM
Hey, I was wondering if any of you guys know how to get the automatic transmision to go in first gear?

I got a friend that has a 1994 Camaro 5.7L and there are two options for the transmision: the "cheap" one that has olny 2/3/4/D and the "expensive" one that has all 1/2/3/D. The point is that if you got the cheap one you could take of the plastic covers where the shift knob is and take a pin out and thats it you got all 1/2/3/D. Maybe you can do that to our tranny to. If any of you know tell me.

cbomb222
03-21-2004, 08:24 PM
does anyone know what civic models have a vtec stock

bobafett
03-21-2004, 09:01 PM
whats a vtec?

A20A1
03-22-2004, 08:27 PM
Okay I guess I'm making it my project...
Here is what I did so far...

- Removed shifter case
- Removed shifter selector electrical components
- Removed upper shifter body

- Shifter base is still installed
- Shifter cable is still installed
- Shifter stick is still installed

- Problems
1) Shifter stick hits frame after 2nd
2) Shifter cable will not move past 2nd

- Solutions
1) Adjust shifter cable to engage gears earlier along the travel of the shifter stick
*Problem) Upper shifter body will have to remain uninstalled, along with electrical components, meaning no reverse lights and the need to bypass the "Start in park" system.
2) Possibly check cable or transmission housing for blockage
*Problem) There is no 1st selection available

wprocomp
03-23-2004, 02:46 PM
I usally just start in d3 and go from there like A20...but I do ten to go past 6k...I wonder if a 90-93 accord shifter combo would work?

87AccordsterLx
03-23-2004, 06:04 PM
Mike, you may want to look into the newer accord setup. I don't know a lot about the technical aspect of this but I do know that my dad's 98 accord has an auto tranny with 1st, 2nd, 3rd, and 4th gears. Maybe there is some way to integrate this?

momo8517
04-02-2004, 06:44 PM
as usual, bitesize has hit the nail on the head with respect to tranny choice. if you want to drive around in first, swap in a standard. *hi-fives BITESIZE* that is the ONLY mod (that will work) i would think if you could force first on the auto, that option would be shown in the gear selector. if you try to do it by just pulling the cable farther, i think you'll do one of two things: break your linkage or break your transmission. aside from that, if the tranny is electronically controlled, you may be able to trick the computer, but again, you run the high risk of destroying something.

just out of curiosity, why do you need first? i wouldnt think you'd need to drive around in first unless you were towing something up a hill that weighed 3x the car

momo8517
04-03-2004, 07:48 AM
well, if you really want to keep your auto, i uess that IS your call. I dont know how the auto in the 3rd gen accord sets up, but my guess would be that it's controlled by a computer. and a computer can be faked by reprogramming. SO your best bet, instead of trying to force 1st and shift up to 2nd manually (abusive), would be to try to mod the auto functionality to shift later. i know on the auto's in the 4g theres a little 'sport' button which delays shift points to keep the engine in its powerband. it would be cool if you could mod a button like this to your 3g. maybe tear the tranny controller out of a 4g??? dont know if it would work, but it would be kinda cool if it did. this controller doesnt make the (f22) motor go past 6300 (redline) but it will go to redline in 1st and 2nd in sport modeif you really harp on the accolerator.

TWOLOUDNPROUD
04-03-2004, 08:49 AM
:cheers:

A20A1
04-03-2004, 10:10 AM
There is no computer on/for our trans, well at least not mine, it's all via the Kickdown/TV linkage.

EvilPenciler
04-03-2004, 11:24 AM
I think you should set the auto trans like a bracket racer trans :D

momo8517
04-04-2004, 01:40 PM
Yea, A20, you're right. On second consideration, i think it is done the same way on the 4g. It WAS a good thought though. TWOLOUD has it right the only way to do it is to rebuild the torque converter so its stall speed is way different. whatever

Civvy
09-17-2004, 06:01 PM
The best thing i ever did was loosen the throttle cable!! it then tightens the kickdown cable and kicks down sooner.

cons. tighten it too much and that annoying part when u go round a corner and it changes down sometimes even 2 gears, becomes more oftern!

but its a simple mod and worth trying!

A20A1
09-17-2004, 07:07 PM
going around the corner and having the gears change is because of the fluid in the convertor being pushed around...

Loosening the throttle cable could cause you to no longer get WOT...

What you do is hold the pedal to the floor and set the throttle cable to get WOT... maybe make it a hair tighter to allow for cable stretch.

Next you adjust the TV setting to your liking... loose for early shifts and tight for late shifts.

I think the best mod is holding it in your hand... having near total controll over the trans makes it a lot more fun.

Civvy
09-17-2004, 07:18 PM
U've lived man.ha,ha I like that! = holding it in your hand. But, there's no adjustment on the kickdown cable? is there?

A20A1
09-17-2004, 07:23 PM
what do you mean no adjustment

http://www.3geez.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3605&stc=1
Here is the TV Cable Bracket and The Tranny Filler cap / Dipstick .

http://www.3geez.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3603&stc=1
Here is a close up of the 2 12mm adjustment nuts.

http://www.3geez.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3604&stc=1
Here is the Naked Shifter.

The locking pin is in the upper right hand corner... I don't have all the shifter components installed... you're only worried abbout removing the locking pin, don't remove anything else, only enough to gain access to the locking pin and cable adjuster.

if you remove the pin that holds the cable to the shifter lever inside the car, you can push the cable into park... park is the very top selection for the cable. now with the cable in park, move the shift lever into the reverse slot... now pull the cable so back towards the shifter... twist the brown adjustment peice till the holes in the cable match the holes in the shift lever, reinsert the locking pin.

Civvy
09-17-2004, 07:26 PM
The end of the kick down cable is the same as a clutch cable!?

A20A1
09-17-2004, 08:10 PM
The cable end has a ball that fists inside a lever... above that are the adjustment nuts just like the throttle cable has.

Civvy
09-17-2004, 08:39 PM
i'll have a look at my dads when i'm up there then, but im sure it was fixed on mine.
Ha,ha i guess by the pics i've jst noticed its daylight over there!!? its 05:39 here pitch black outside and i'm at work! he,he

A20A1
09-17-2004, 09:02 PM
those pics are old... I didn't just take them.

POS carb
11-08-2004, 02:01 PM
if you want to hold first I suggest you start looking into the test ports on the tranny as possible locations for mounting solenoids to control flow (on/off) or manual valves of some sort. If you can find one for the 1-2 shift (I can't remember if it's there) or the governer valve you can do something.,.. also maybe puting some kind of motor assembly or something that basically extends off the tv bracket and you attatch the cable to the moving end if you lengthen it oyu get a softer shift profile and if you shorten it hold it more. etc etrc etc... I took the trans apart I doubt you are going to get anywhere with looking for an extra "D1" position, Honda probably would have added it to the lever if it was in there. Since it is all hydraulic control I 99% doubt it. Hey look, Honda actually put a 5th gear just never added it to the selector! :b

Dude if you want I can ship you a valvebody and we can brainstorm on how to mod it based on the paths... I have a good idea of what everything (valves) in there does but the valvebody has like 2 miles of channels!

A20A1
01-10-2005, 12:21 PM
well I was trying to get it to hold the gear to 7,500 but even at the greatest TV adjustment you get about 6,800.

paso100
04-17-2005, 03:19 AM
For those of us with automatics, I found this company. They work on your core torque converter or sell you a new one, according to their site. Cost is between $350 and $1,100. I'm going to call them and see what they can do for the 3g.

From Hondatuning:
JMO modifies the various blades and vanes inside the torque converter to improve the efficiency of this fluid transfer. It also modifies the blades of the stator to more efficiently return fluid to the pump side of the converter.

The exact specifications on what JMO does to the converter are a closely kept trade secret. But we can tell you the mods work as advertised, quickening shifts, improving fuel economy, and raising the stall speed.

http://www.jmousa.com/us/flash/frame/

smufguy
04-19-2005, 08:30 AM
thats pretty interesting and also cool. A racing auto tranny is awsome for a drag strip cause no one can shift as fast as an auto tranny. did they give u a price for how much a torque converter would cost which can hold up to 200 ft-lbs? but 1100 bux seems a lot. we can get a 450ft-lbs clutch and a 5spd conversion for around 600 bux tops.

NXRacer
04-19-2005, 08:39 AM
i have a friend who had the TC in his 5th gen re-worked by some shop in Las Vegas. That thing was pretty quick!

A20A1
04-19-2005, 09:40 AM
There is also LEVEL10

jrmini12
05-25-2005, 10:19 AM
I took the toque covertor out of my lids accord and took it to a torque convertor shop. 175.00 later we had stall plus locked up alot harder. Dont spend more than 300.00 to get a convertor for the 3g unless you are a drag race, for street racing, lightning the convertor, opening up and brazing up fins make a worl of differenc

Little hint as well, we also had the shift solonoids redrilled and the valve body worked in the trans, total cost 542.00 for everything. Also you can try this we are going to . in our dirt cars we run a hollow torque convertor, no fluid no parts inside. I know what you are thinking that would be like direct drive right. well a good trand guy can drill a bypass hole in the valve body that will let you start the car and sit in gear as though you had a convertor that worked. Just an idea...

A20A1
05-26-2005, 12:18 PM
Interesting mod. :) thanks for the info.

snoopyloopy
06-29-2005, 04:18 PM
it interests me. i want to have a turboed a20 but don't think i actually want to have a manny tranny.

Vanilla Sky
06-29-2005, 04:33 PM
a big problem with these transmissions is that they seem weak themselves.

jrmini, did you have anything else in the trans reworked? better clutches or anything?

Chadroper
07-13-2005, 12:26 PM
can any 5 or 6 speed automatics be bolted to the engine. I wish the new Mercedes or Chrysler 6 speed automatics could.

Chadroper
07-13-2005, 12:27 PM
I want a 5 or 6 speed automatic

snoopyloopy
07-13-2005, 02:00 PM
a 7-speed auto would be nice.

smufguy
07-13-2005, 08:27 PM
i think automatics do have an overdrive gear. I have heard of a shop (dont know the name or its location) which does 5spd to 6spd, or 4spd to 5spd conversions. Basically, they make the automatic overdrive gear as a manual overdrive gear, which becomes your top gear. So whoever has a 4spd with an overdrive gear, will end up with a 5spd tranny and those with 5spd and a overdrive gear will end up with a 6spd tranny. Does it all matter, fuck no. it only matters if ur in rally, cause any drag race or what not, with atleast 400hp on the motor, first four or three gears is all we will have to use for the 1/4 mile. increase the rev limit and it all falls into place.

PS: yeah, thats why i dont understand why you guys are dying for a 6spd tranny and 7spd trannies. For example, the evo and sti run around 13.5s average in the quarter, but the evo is a 5spd and the sti is a 6 spd, and the sti has higher gear ratios than the evo, so its a combination of the engine power out put, power band, and the rev limit.

snoopyloopy
07-16-2005, 09:19 PM
i think automatics do have an overdrive gear. I have heard of a shop (dont know the name or its location) which does 5spd to 6spd, or 4spd to 5spd conversions. Basically, they make the automatic overdrive gear as a manual overdrive gear, which becomes your top gear. So whoever has a 4spd with an overdrive gear, will end up with a 5spd tranny and those with 5spd and a overdrive gear will end up with a 6spd tranny. Does it all matter, fuck no. it only matters if ur in rally, cause any drag race or what not, with atleast 400hp on the motor, first four or three gears is all we will have to use for the 1/4 mile. increase the rev limit and it all falls into place.

then i wonder if they couldn't make my overdrive gear a fifth and add another gear as overdrive.


PS: yeah, thats why i dont understand why you guys are dying for a 6spd tranny and 7spd trannies. For example, the evo and sti run around 13.5s average in the quarter, but the evo is a 5spd and the sti is a 6 spd, and the sti has higher gear ratios than the evo, so its a combination of the engine power out put, power band, and the rev limit.

except the evo mr. it has a 6-speed. but i think the numbers are still pretty much the same anyway.