Wider Tires ?

[smufguy]

TIRES and WHEEL

Alright, time to get serious for me and start researching. Well im planning on doing a lot of stuff to my car before the end of this year and im in the process of gathering a lot of info to get the parts list tightened. One of this is tires and rims.

Well, my concern is mainly on braking and traction. i get good traction with 185 pirellies but not adequate, and the brake fade on the stock rotors and pads and stock calipers just dont cut it.

well im thinking on running 225s in the front. the tires are either 225/40/16 or 225/45/16. the only problem with the 225/45 is that i would doing 62mph while the speedo reads 60mph. but on the other hand 225/40 will do 59.7mph. so i might go with 225/40s. well i know this is a much wider tire than the max 215 that some ppl push around here.

given that my car is lowered 2"s and has lude arms, im in the process of getting front camber kits also. The reason im wanting to rum 225s is because of the power i will be pushing basically saying, im going turbo no secret.

well, what would i need to be able to rum 225s? i know im either gonna get fender work done, possibly get a body shop flare it out, or cut it out and use 1st gen supra fender flares on it, i am not sure, but i know fenders will be taken care of. the closest post that touched what i was talking about was this http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27200&highlight=wheel+spacers and its to make the track wider.

but my question is, how can i run a 16inch rim with 225 tires on em? im not still clear with the offset and if anyone care to explain it once again, i would be happy. I guess i would have to rum more than 45mm offset, possibly a deep dish rim i dont know. also does it matter if i run same tires all around or just bigger in the front?

also, im gonna be getting a LSD so that should pretty much take care of it, and braking, well there will be a thread on it once i get my research done and phone calls made. thanks :)

[AZmike]

Do you expect the extra 10 mm of tire width to be worth all this work? With 215s you could get away without fender work or spacers as long as you get 45 mm offset wheels. 215-16-45 is still less than 2% taller than stock.

Neither 225-16-40 (1 choice) nor 215-16-45 (7 choices) have much of a selection of tires on tire rack. While they don't list all tires available, it's probably still a good indication that you may have trouble finding a tire that you're happy with in either of those sizes. For comparision 205-16-45 lists 26 chioces.

Using different sized tires will work fine as long as you don't mind replacing the front twice as often (or more with the power from the turbo) than the rears since you won't be able to rotate.

[smufguy]

i dont mind 215s as i mentioned, but i would like to have 225s. for the power im expecting and the way i drive, i expect traction like no other. THe stock tires that i have are pirellies P700s and they are alright, but not that good. besides, the threads are worn out.

i was just asking jim about this and i got his pm today sometime after i started this thread. I would like to know just in general, how the offset on the rims are actually measured and also what i can do to make this thing fit. also 225s are appearance factors too. :)

[AZmike]

The offset of a wheel is measured from the vertical centerline of the wheel to the surface of the wheel that bolts to the hub.

Here's a decent diagram:
http://www.tirerack.com/wheels/tech/offset.htm

[shepherd79]

i think you should be fine with good set of tires. i wouln't go past 205.
if i was you, i would tune the turbo on dual trubo boost. lets say 5-6 psi for daily driving and when you want to race some one flip the switch and it will go up to 10-12psi. it is easy to do.
you can buy DOT approved drag tires that you can use on street, but it is overkill for daily driver. have a set of drag strip tires handy if you want to go to the strip, but other than that just good NItto 555 tire will do the job.
http://www.nittotire.com/tires_555.asp

[smufguy]

Mike, thanks a bunch you, now i get it. i thought the offset was from the surface of the hub to the outside of the rim, but now i know. thanks :)

and alex, i heard nothing but good stuff about nittos being grippy, but if thats the case, then they should be low thread life. but i will look into it. ALso, i dont know if im gonna be running Sean's ecm kit, i might run either Hondata, Holley commander or something like that, i still have to look into it and see what i can do. I can have money to spend, but with the accordcentral products page not working, i cant get to it, its just frusting.

Also what cluch would be best for upto 300-350hp for street? Cause i will be pushing only around 200-250whp for now, but once i get another motor and rebuild it with low comp pistons, then i might be able to boost it up a little. thanks :) :cool:

[Justin86]

Yea I have been wondering the same think casue I'm going to be running lots of juice here in about a week and I have turbo plans down the road. I'm upgrading the braking currently with AEM big brake kits front and back, just waiting for my stuff to get in. But I wanted to run like a 225/50/16 tire to get some better grip. My current 205/40/17 do the job ok but down the road when I'm putting out 3X the power I know they won't hold up to well.

[smufguy]

how much did it cost you for the whole front and rear set up for the BIG brake kit? and is it the 4 piston calipers?

Also, i wanna know if the wheel spacers do anything or if they are good. I dont care if i need to get longer studs, i can work with that. i can also machine my own spacers out of 6061 aluminum and its not a problem either. I just dont want anythign to snap or brake under use.

[zero.counter]

Also, i wanna know if the wheel spacers do anything or if they are good. I dont care if i need to get longer studs, i can work with that. i can also machine my own spacers out of 6061 aluminum and its not a problem either. I just dont want anythign to snap or brake under use.
Wheel spacers merely cause the rim to protrude farther away from the hub mounting surface. Many use them for the looks, many others use them for clearance issues. But just like negative offset, they can affect suspension components and if used incorrectly can be dangerous.

Offsets: From the mounting surface to the center of the rim.
Positive=Most FWD rims, the hub mounting surface is closer to the outside (viewable) surface of the rims.
Negative=Deepdish look a.k.a. drifta look or style, the hub mounting surface is farther from the viewable surface (sunk in)
Zero=perfectly aligned in the middle.

[smufguy]

well having the spacers i would think u can run even wider tires with much larger offset that would utelize the maximum wheel whell area from steering lock to lock positions. I dont consider this as an appearance mod unless its solely for its purpose cause what bad can it be if u want a lot of traction for whatever hp ur running. Stock cars for example as the STI come stock with 225s and they push around 300hp. but bmws come with a lil bigger and their wheels are always the deep dish style despite front or rear.

I am just probing all the useful possibilities of getting maximum traction out of just tire alone despite the thread wear or the tire rating on them. i am more into throwing opinions back and forth and distingushing bwt facts, experience and desiers. ;)

[Justin86]

I was able to get the brake kits and AEM pads for $490 shipped. As fot the spacers they might be needed and longer studs also. So the bigger the offset the more it puches the wheel/tires closer to the supension to prevent fender rubbing, so having flared fenders or a bigger offset then 45 it might work?

[smufguy]

I was able to get the brake kits and AEM pads for $490 shipped. As fot the spacers they might be needed and longer studs also. So the bigger the offset the more it puches the wheel/tires closer to the supension to prevent fender rubbing, so having flared fenders or a bigger offset then 45 it might work?


can u give me the link to the site where u got the kit from or was it from ebay? also technically 45mm and greater should work. atleast thats what Jim said and he was not sure either, cause it was never attempted before.

[Justin86]

Yea as long as you go bigger then 45 it should keep the tire from rubbing the fender but pretty soon the tire will get too close to the supension and rub. Here's the link to that site for the brakes...... http://www.dynamicspeedlab.com/level.itml/icOid/138

[Vanilla Sky]

would out cars benifit from a wider track? just a theoretical question... but would it be a help to hte car's handling to be wider? i mean wider like cut-now-the-middle-and-add-6-inches wider... i mean 3" wheel spacers, and a lot of bodywork to cover the wheels with sheetmetal wider... just in theory would this car handle better if it were wider...i think it would improve the traction, and help out with the body lean we have... just hit me up, i'll be posting super-tech questions such as these every once-in-a-while, so watch out

[k-roy]

Yea a wider track will add to the overall stability of the car. Cutting the chassis and adding material would be the way to do it. If you added 3" wheel spacers that would be ghetto as hell and throw off the suspension geometry, thus degrading performance. If you want to improve traction get better tires. The body lean in would be worse, partially from increased flex in the chassis. You can decrease body lean by uprading to large swar bars front and rear, as strut tower braces, springs and dampers.

On a side not. Wide Track by Pontiac is what I first thought of when i read this. The new GTP has 11 differant trademarks glued to the outside like SRS, GTP, Pontiac, ABS Wide-Track, etc... The current wide track Gran Prix has 1/2 of an inch wider track than the current Accord. Thats GM for you, making you think you are getting something special by branding and tradmarking it when in acutality its nothing special or unique.

[Vanilla Sky]

lol, that's GM for ya... i was just thinkin this would be cool because i've never seen a 3gee cut in half cleanly

[Justin86]

hum I would like to see it hapen or at least cut in half, time to bust out the plasma cutter. :D