Possibility of Aerodeck in the US

[Bloodlust]

Ok, its official, I am seriously in love with the aerodeck, and since I live in the United States, the chances of finding one here is less than none. So my only other alternative is to go to Europe and get one and have it shipped back here. So I talked to Tara about it, and she would be totally willing to go to Europe, and of course while we are there I would pick myself up an aerodeck :D

I just have a few questions for you guys.

1. Would it be street legal to have one in the United States?
2. What kind of engines are in the aerodecks? (Fuel Injected)
3. What countries in Europe that have aerodecks and are primarily English speaking?
4. How much are they usually in US currency?
5. About how much would it cost to ship it back to the United States?

NOTE: This thread is primarily for the Europeans who know the answers to these questions, and for anyone in the US who knows the answers to these questions. Any help would be greatly appreciated for I am extremely serious about doing this.

[dXsquared]

hmm... too bad your soo far.. i could get you one for like 2500 bucks!!!

Travis

[blazin3gen]

o hell ya mike if u do that you my man are gonna be the shit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! good luck bro!

[NXRacer]

your first stop of inquiry about the legality of importing the car would be customs. There is a CRAPLOAD of red tape you'll have to go through to get it imported. The easiest way to get in into your posession would be to have it shipped as a 'show car' and try to convince customs that you're not going to drive it on the street. Thats the hard part. If you get it in your hands (and thats a big if) you can register it like any other car at the DMV.

You might want to talk to MotoRex in Cali and see if they could give you some pointers as to whats the best way to go about importing a car. If you have a friend in the service in europe, they could buy one and ship it through the military for free and totally bypass the Customs BS altogether.

[Bloodlust]

hmm... too bad your soo far.. i could get you one for like 2500 bucks!!!

Travis

Wait... you can get them in Canada? Whoa this changes things. :uh:

[Bloodlust]

your first stop of inquiry about the legality of importing the car would be customs. There is a CRAPLOAD of red tape you'll have to go through to get it imported. The easiest way to get in into your posession would be to have it shipped as a 'show car' and try to convince customs that you're not going to drive it on the street. Thats the hard part. If you get it in your hands (and thats a big if) you can register it like any other car at the DMV.

You might want to talk to MotoRex in Cali and see if they could give you some pointers as to whats the best way to go about importing a car. If you have a friend in the service in europe, they could buy one and ship it through the military for free and totally bypass the Customs BS altogether.

Thanks for the forewarning. Unfortunately I have no friends in the military so that option is shot. If I do have any problems getting it thru customs I guess I will just have to wait it out. I mean they can look all thru it all they want its not like they will find drugs or anything. Whats this MotoReg in Cali? Is that a company or a guy on 3geez?

[NXRacer]

Thanks for the forewarning. Unfortunately I have no friends in the military so that option is shot. If I do have any problems getting it thru customs I guess I will just have to wait it out. I mean they can look all thru it all they want its not like they will find drugs or anything. Whats this MotoReg in Cali? Is that a company or a guy on 3geez?
you could be waiting until you die of old age. Plus, they can hold it for something like 150% of the value of the car or something. MotoRex is the place in cali that imports and sells the skylines in the US.

[Cheeseburger]

its a company here in so cal they mainly export nissan skylines, they have a dealer here in orange county i think but they do all of the work with customs and make the cars street legal heres a link to there web site
http://www.motorex.net/contact.html

[NXRacer]

if you do get an aerodeck imported, see if you could throw in a RHD setup also. I've give my left nut to have a RHD hatch.

[Cheeseburger]

whats a RHD?

[Bloodlust]

whats a RHD?

Yeah I was about to ask the same thing.

[dXsquared]

right hand drive

and ya.. theres actually an aerodeck here for ya now

Travis

[Bloodlust]

right hand drive

and ya.. theres actually an aerodeck here for ya now

Travis

Oh that sucks that its right hand drive tho. I would def need to find a left hand drive one. There are two necessities for it:

1. Left hand drive
2. Manual Tranny

[Rex]

Man, I would love an aerodeck.... but it just seems like too much $$... it will be interesting to see if you ever do get one though.

[Vanilla Sky]

DX, is that in US funds? how much would that be in US funds?

[Bloodlust]

Well I have talked to Alex, who most know was originally born in Europe, and he told me the best place to find one is Germany. Hell we will go there and drink and eat some sausage. w00t!

[dXsquared]

http://www.importconcern.ca/broker/10109/

that one is like 2400 USD... so like 3000 shipped taxes in to Ontario... then just drive it down to PA....

Travis

[wprocomp]

but ddont expect to get it over here all in one peice...expect dents,missings parts etc. ,and there is a 95% probabilty that it will be that way

[Bloodlust]

I was talking to my Dad who is a mechanic and he brought up two very good points to me.

1. Would it pass US inspection, ecspecially in the state of Pennsylvania?
2. Would it pass emissions?

[NXRacer]

1. Would it pass US inspection, ecspecially in the state of Pennsylvania?

it wont pass Federal safety standards. Thats the biggest reason why they dont let cars into the states without some serious work. you have to reinforce the bumpers, replace the glass and a bunch of other shit.

2. Would it pass emissions?
probably not, but thats not hard to fix.

[Bloodlust]

geez it sounds like a lot of work just for a car! But hey at least I will be visiting Germany and see where my great grandparents were from.

[LadyofBloodlust]

Oh geeze I am sorry that last post was from me, Mike was signed on my computer here at my house and he never logged out. My bad! Sorry babe!

[Vanilla Sky]

well, if it's been registered in canada, find yourself a "snowbird" from canada to buy it for you... since they are in canada, they can reg one here for winter use, and they can then sell it to you

that's a loophole for canada

BTW, he probably like it when you jump all over him like that ;)

[thegreatdane]

1. Would it be street legal to have one in the United States?
2. What kind of engines are in the aerodecks? (Fuel Injected)
3. What countries in Europe that have aerodecks and are primarily English speaking?
4. How much are they usually in US currency?
5. About how much would it cost to ship it back to the United States?

1: Depending on which country you buy the aerodeck in there may or may not be a catalytic converter installed on the car, but with a catalytic converter I think they should be close to pass your emission inspections. European Accords does not have EGR and does not have any Oxygen sensors.

2: The most common engines in the aerodeck is the 2.0 litre EFI A20A4 with 122hp, in some of them (not many) there is also the B20A2 engine with 137hp. Recently I have even seen an aerodeck with leather interior for sale in germany. They also have the 2.0 litre carbureted A20A2 engine with 106hp.

3: In England they have the Aerodecks but they are right hand drive. Most of the northern european countries have the aerodecks and are generally good english speaking. You will find a lot of aerodecks in Germany but they are usually not that good english speaking. Some are and some are not. Countries with left hand drive aerodecks in Europe: Norway, Denmark, Germany, Finland, Austria, Switzerland, Holland. Russia has them too.

4: From $1000 to $5000 depending on the condition and what country you buy it in.

5: No idea..

[Vanilla Sky]

as a loophole for everywhere else, have it container shipped, and pull like the ECU so it's a non-running car... import it as parts... seems that if you can get it past customs the rest is gravy

[Gregg86DX]

I have heard of people literally cutting cars in half to import them as parts and putting them back together in the US. Depending on how "legal" you want to be, if you managed to get the Aerodeck into the US, you could find a really cheap coupe and move the VIN info over to the Aerodeck and register that way.

I like the Canada option. Just get thing over the border and fake the registration.

DISCLAIMER: this info is for entertainment purposes only and in no way intended to be actually done :)

Gregg

[thegreatdane]

Aerodeck with leather interior:
http://bilder.mobile.de/images/autos/528605/11111111133822577-2428-1078404457_3.bild

Theres actually 3 aerodecks with leather interior from germany for sale right now on mobile.de

[Bloodlust]

Damn thanks greatdane u got me lots of info. Very much appreciated. :thumbup:

[lightbulblxi]

instead of going to germany and shipping it over, why not just drive it over? but seriously, just a thought, but it might be easier to just get the one from canada, and get parts from a regular 3g and swap it to LHD, and 5 spd. it just might be cheaper and maybe easier to get ot over here. and if you did that, i would be interested in the parts you removed to convert my car to RHD. :D

[DR1VER]

Why do you guys want RHD so bad? it just makes over taking difficult. In the UK LHD cars go for about 2/3 of the value of RHD.
As for the price of Aerodecks in the UK i've seen a few nice ones recently. I went to look at a 2.0EXi auto in immaculate bright red, it looked like a new car, 70,000 miles and it was sold for £700 ($1500). There are a few on www.autotrader.co.uk, one was £995 with 55,000 miles!! you can pick up a rough one for about £200 ($450)

[my86dx4dr]

um name a good postcode?..................lol

[Morpheus]

I heard you can put the VIN numbers off an old shit 3gee on that one and register it fine as long as you pass emissions. As long as its numbers off a junked hatchback no one will know the difference.

[Vinny]

Basic Information on Bringing Items into the United States
This unofficial information is for general guidance only. The rules change often, so consult the authorities listed below for current information.

1. DUTY FREE TOURIST EXEMPTIONS
2. DUTIES AND TAXES
3. IMPORTING GOODS THROUGH THE POST AND BY COURIER
Note: If you are importing goods via Canada, say an engine of something big for any reason (cheaper freight et cetera) your goods will attract Canadian GST at 7%. However, when you remove these goods from Canada, all you have to do is present the receip t that shows that you paid GST at Customs when leaving Canada and they will rebate you the GST paid.
4. IMPORTING MOTOR VEHICLES
In general terms, currently the United States operates with a 25 year rule for the import of motor vehicles. The 25 years is from the date of manufacture to the current date, not on a generic year basis. Basically, those Series III's, D90's, 1 10's et cetera that you have a hankering for cannot be imported.

Be careful - Unlike Canada, there are all sorts of rules, duties, government departments et cetera to deal with. Forget one and your vehicle could be sitting on the wharf for a while piling up storage costs. Remember, Customs rules and Department of Transport, EPA, Department of Agriculture rules apply. Contact the appropriate authorities before you attempt to import any vehicle:



Leaving the UK (circa October 1995)
Make sure the numbers match the paperwork and are where they ought to be.
Get the V5 in your name, and any other documents.
If you have a couple months, try and sell the Registration Marks. (Elite 0380-818-181)
My was containerised, and I never bothered to tell the DVLA it was leaving, however there is a form for permanent export and you can request your tax refund at the same time.
Contact the stateside folks, get the EPA paperwork, contact a custom's brokerage & customs at the port. Contact your home state DMV and find out if they have any particular requiements.
Lore has it some dis-liked politician in NYC brought in a jag, and either the state or customs couldn't find the chassis number where it was documented to should have been, so it sat in a salvage yard for a very long time.


Export port-side
Make sure you have a spare set of keys with you.
You'll leave a set of keys in the vehicle. I used a piston with a 3-foot rope as the key-fob for the keys, so they wouldn't get lost :-)
You need to have your vehicle thoroughly steam cleaned before it leaves for the states. (See USDA)
Forms
Make sure you check off the box that says 'permanent import' on any forms.

EPA
Contact the Environmental Protection Agency in Washington DC Phone: 202-233-9660 FAX: 202-233-9596 regardless of vehicle age. EPA exeptions exist for vehicles over 21 years old.

Checks for: pre-1968 gasoline, pre-74 diesel (basically pre-introduction of US emmissions laws)
Requires: Copy of Registration
Exemption:Can request (pre-approval) for over 21 years old
Form Number:
The EPA can give you an exemption for anything over 21 years old.

EPA pre-approval shouldn't be necessary, for pre-'67 vehicles, but it doesn't hurt. I didn't get a pre-approval (after calling the EPA to check).



USDOT: Department of Transportation, 400 Seventh St., Washington, DC 20590
Forms:filled out at customs.
There is also a DOT form, that the vehicle met safety standards when it was built, and there should be a customs form for the importing of personal property - since your is coming in before you do, I don't know if that complicates things.
USDA: US Department of Agriculture
You need to have your vehicle thoroughly steam cleaned before it leaves for the states. Can't allow any foreign dirt into the country.
You'll also need a from from the department of agriculture that indicates where the vehicle was in europe (been to eastern europe lately ?)

Customs
At port of entry. Wants to see everything.

Proof of ownership
EPA Approval
USDA Approval
DOT forms
Collects Duty: 2.5% to 3.7%
Requires Bond of 100% vehicle value + DUTY

Custom's Brokerage
At port of entry. Does all the customs paperwork for you, it will take a few calls to even find someone who is willing to deal with vehicles. My understanding is that they run about and get all the documents to all the right agencies, and it should ru n $120 to $200. that is unless you're going to do the foot work yourself.

US Port Side
Keep a spare set of keys with you.
You'll leave a set of keys in the vehicle.
I used a piston with a 3-foot rope as the key-fob for the keys, so they wouldn't get lost.
Failure to complete the paperwork in a timely fashion will result in port-storage charges.

Driving it off
You'll also need tags and insurance.
Your insurer may not talk to you until you have an address here (use your parents).
The State will probably need to see the V5 registration, as well as the EPA, DOT and custom's paperwork. Some states may require an inspection as if it were a salvage vehicle.

For the Adventurous, you're bringing something, er, different in...
These are the rules...
Basically, nothing newer than 25 years old can cross a US border legally, without having been, as it is called, Federalised (49 states, not California which is a whole different can of worms). The Federalisation process is a long and costly one, and ca n only be carried out by a US registered importer, of which their are only about 15 around the US, and none are Land Rover specialists.

The EPA
EPA will allow diesels and such for newer models, up to Jan 1, 1976, gasoline models are on the 25 year policy.

Emission Requirements: The Clean Air Act, as amended, prohibits the importation of any motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine not in conformity with emission requirements prescribed by the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency (EPA). This restrict ion applies whether the motor vehicle or motor vehicle engine is new or used, and whether it was originally produced for sale and use in a foreign country, or originally produced (or later modified) to conform to EPA requirements for sale or use in the Un ited States. In addition to passenger cars, all trucks, multipurpose vehicles (e.g., all-terrain vehicles, campers), motorcycles, etc., that are capable of being registered by a state for use on public roads or that the EPA has deemed capable of being saf ely driven on public roads, are subject to these requirements. The term "vehicle" is used below to include all EPA-regulated vehicles and engines.

U.S. Version Vehicles: Any person may import U.S.-version vehicles. All such 1971 and later models are required to have a label in a readily visible position in the engine compartment stating that the vehicle conforms to U.S. requirements. This label will read "Vehicle Emission Control Information" and will have a statement by the manufacturer that the vehicle meets U.S. EPA emission requirements at the time of manufacture. If this label is not present, the importer should obtain a letter of conformity from the manufacturer's U.S. representative-not from a dealership-prior to importation.

The following U.S.-version (labeled) vehicles are not subject to EPA import restrictions and may be entered without bond under the applicable category on the EPA Form 3520-1:

New vehicles driven less than 50 miles.
Vehicles older than 20 years.
Vehicles manufactured without a catalytic converter and oxygen sensor, if accompanied by documented evidence from the manufacturer.
Diesel-fueled vehicles.
Gasoline- and methanol-fueled vehicles driven solely in the U.S., Canada, Mexico, Japan, Australia, Taiwan, and the Grand Bahama Island (EPA Form 3520-1 not required).
Vehicles driven only in western Europe and fueled only with unleaded gasoline.
Vehicles participating in an overseas EPA-approved catalyst-control programme, if accompanied by appropriate certification from the catalyst control programme.
Qualifying U.S.-version (labeled) vehicles participating in an overseas EPA-approved catalyst control program are not subject to additional EPA import restrictions and may be entered without bond under category "AA" on the EPA Form 3520-1 if accompanied by appropriate documentation from the catalyst control program.

Non-U.S. Version Vehicles: Individuals are not permitted to import non-U.S. version vehicles (unless otherwise excluded or exempted, see next sections). These vehicles must be imported (entered) by an Independent Commercial Importer (ICI) having a currently valid qualifying certificate of conformity for each vehicle being imported. The ICI will be responsible for performing all necessary modifications, testing and labeling, as well as providing an emissions warranty identical to the emissions wa rranty required of new vehicles sold in the U.S.

Excluded Vehicles: Vehicles manufactured before EPA requirements took effect (e.g., gasoline-fueled passenger vehicles manufactured prior to 1968 and motorcycles manufactured prior to 1978) are excluded from import restrictions and may be import ed by any person without bond under the applicable declaration category on the EPA Form 3520-1.

[Vinny]

Words of Caution on Emissions Controls from the EPA
Not all nonconforming vehicles are eligible for importation, and ICIs are not required to accept vehicles for which they have qualifying certificates of conformity.
EPA certification of ICIs does not guarantee the actions or work of the ICIs, nor does it regulate contractual agreements and working relationships with vehicle owners.
EPA strongly recommends that prospective importers buy only U.S. version (labeled) vehicles, because of the expense and potential difficulties involved with importing a non-U.S. version vehicle.
EPA strongly recommends that current owners of non-U.S. version vehicles sell or otherwise dispose of those vehicles overseas rather than ship and import them into the U.S., because of the expense and potential difficulties involved with importing a n on-U.S. version vehicle.
Before shipping a non-conforming vehicle for importation, EPA strongly recommends that the importer either make final arrangements with an ICI for modifications and testing, or obtain EPA approval in writing for importation. Storage fees at the ports are costly, and the vehicle may not be eligible for importation.
The EPA policy which permitted importers a one-time exemption for vehicles at least five years old has been eliminated.
EPA considers a U.S.-version vehicle that has had modifications to its drive train or emission control system to be a non-U.S.-version vehicle, even though it may be labeled a U.S.-version vehicle.
For Further Information: Environmental Protection Agency, Investigation/Imports Section (6405-J), Washington, D.C. 20460. Tel. (202) 233-9660. Fax. (202) 233-9596.

The DOT
So, you think you can solve the probelms with emissions. Fine, BUT that doesn't get you by the DOT regulations. So DOT is the hang up, and the form you need to import a vehicle to the US is DOT form HS 7 *rev. 8.93*, this applies to OMB No. 2127 0002, Pu blic Law 100 562, 15 USC 1397, 1916, and 2027. This form is the key...it has 12 different situations under which you can import a vehicle. Unless you are in the military, importing a race car, or are a diplomat, your pretty much stuck with box number 1, t hat states...The vehicle is 25 or more years old or, if a motorcycle, is 25 or more years old or was manufactured before January 1, 1969; or the equipment item was manufactured on a date when no applicable Fedral Motor Vehicle Safety, or Theft Prevention Standard was in effect. *591.5i*

Years of trying to find a way around have meant long talks with everyone from US Customs to DOT to EPA. No variation exists, you can't legally re-number a 1980 SIII as a 1965 and import it, they consider that fraud, and if caught it is a crime. You can 't sign the bottom of the DOT form with any mis-information, or that is a FELONY, a crime called defrauding the government. Any US form you sign with incorrect information is a crime. *We don't agree with this stuff it is just the facts* No where in the minds of the any officials we talked to is there any provisions for taking a D90, putting it on an other older chassis *don't know how you'd get it to fit anyway* and legally getting it in. It doesn't work that way. No matter what chassis, no matter what anything, it is the running gear, safetly gear, lights, brakes, locks, seat belts, etc. that the DO T is concerned about, not the year of the chassis, and just how many perfect pre 1969 chassis are out there for all these SIII's? Think before you buy. The UK, or Canada will let anything out, it is coming over the US border that is the problem. So what d o you have to worry about?:

Safety and Bumper Standards. As a general rule, all imported motor vehicles and items of motor vehicle equipment must comply with all applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards in effect when these vehicles or items were manufactured. A C ustoms inspection at the time of entry will determine such compliance, which is verified by the original manufacturer's certification affixed to the vehicle or merchandise. A declaration, HS form 7, must be filed when motor vehicles or items of motor vehi cle equipment are entered. HS form 7 can be obtained from customs brokers or ports of entry.

If written approval is obtained from the U.S. Department of Transportation, certain temporary importations may be exempt from the requirements for certification and conformance, including vehicles brought in for research, investigation, studies, traini ng or demonstrations. Also, vehicles imported for temporary use by certain nonresidents or members of foreign delegations or armed forces may not be required to comply. Vehicles and motor vehicle equipment imported solely with the intention of exportation and so labeled are also exempt from these requirements.

A DOT bond in the amount of 150 percent of the dutiable value must be posted at the port of entry when a noncertified or nonconforming vehicle is imported for permanent use. This bond is intended to assure conformance of the vehicle within 120 days aft er entry. The importer must also sign a contract with a DOT-registered importer who will modify the vehicle to conform with all applicable safety and bumper standards, and who can certify the modifications. A copy of this contract must be furnished to the Customs S ervice at the port of entry. Furthermore, the vehicle model and model year must, prior to entry, be determined to be eligible for importation. Federal regulations 49 CFR parts 593 and 594 specify the petitioning process and fees required to obtain such a determi nation of eligibility.

For additional information or details on these requirements, contact the U.S. Department of Transportation, National Highway Traffic Safety Administration, Director of the Office of Vehicle Safety Compliance (NEF-32), 400 Seventh Street, S.W. Washington, D.C. 20590. Tel. (202) 366-5313.

So basically... be careful out there, and remember just because you are told something, doesn't mean it was true, or legal, or you should spend your hard earned money on it. It doesn't matter to us, as it is your Rover and your money, and we don't like to see the Rover crowd, looked upon as idiots by people out to just make money off them. Make sure your Rover source is a hobbyist as well! Don't want to believe this, call a freight forwarder in your area and ask for DOT form HS 7, and EPA form 3520 1, or go through the government go round...

US Customs 202.622.2000
DOT 202.366.1111 or 202.366.4570

[foobari]

thegreatdane pretty much summed it all up. Just a couple of additions regarding nordic countries (at least Finland). Here every Aerodeck is equipped with the 122hp A20 engine (without cat) and standard EXi stuff (power mirrors, windows, etc). The Aerodecks are getting to be quite rare nowadays, and the ones that are still on the move are usually very rusty due to the road salt. I've seen the prices range anywhere from $1000-$3000. Furthermore, there are not many left in standard form, too many Aerodecks are more or less riced out. Here's one example currently for sale in Finland around $2000.

http://www.oyk.fi/~rauno.vilen/00069CA1-80000001/01844850-00663CBF.7/Auto2.jpg