B18 engine swap

[SEiCOOLGUY]

If i was to swap in a Integra GSR B18 engine, would i need anything besides the usual...like new axles and stuff?

[Hash_man_Se_i]

this topic has been brought up many times, try using the search feature.

But yes, you will need new axles, engine mounts, and wiring harness, as well u will need to convert your car to OBD0 or OBD1 i believe. Most of the parts neeeded can be aquired from Placeracing.

[Project-LXi]

You will need Engine, Tranny, Mounts, Wiring Harness, and Shift Linkages.

[SEiCOOLGUY]

what exactly makes the B18C swap so expensive as compared a to a b16? how much money would i need to save?

[Hash_man_Se_i]

the b18 engine itself costs more than the b16, but does that for a reason.

the engine itself is probably around $4000CDN, then about $1000 US for the mounts, wiring etc.. then install unless you can do it yourself will probably be somewhere near $1000CDN i would imagine/

[Blue Impact]

Ask wickedaccord...

[Ducati]

Is going from the B16 to B18 really worth it? If so, Why?

[Oyvind Ryeng]

Is going from the B16 to B18 really worth it? If so, Why?
More displacement - as you Americans say, there is no replacement for it. Easier to get more power out of because of the lager capacity. Both engines also have *HUGE* aftermarket support, and thousands of people with skills in tuning them.

[Ducati]

If the old adage "There is no Replacement for Displacement" had any truth remaining to it, the Chevrolet Big Block 454 would still be King of the Drag Strip.
Obviously someone forgot to tell that to the guy with the 1999 Acura and the old VW Beetle who utterly humiliated the 454 Chevelle at Mission Dragways last year.

Being solidly from the old school of big block musclecars and hi-revving pony cars (Having owned a Hemi GTX, a 340 Dart GTS and a GTO 389 TriPower, among numerous others) it took many years for me to realize that our V8 monsters were no longer the best way to go for a fast, entertaining street car. Sure, the MoPar Hemi still rules in the Pro classes, where it can be modified to produce 3000 HP, :bow: but lets keep this practical. We drive street cars, and displacement is no longer king.

Anyway...I digress. Sorry.

So, is that 12 valve Accord engine called a B16?
Whats the story with it?
I am not interested in making a high revving performance car out of it, just keeping it reliable. If I want to go fast, I believe in motorcycles.

[shepherd79]

stock 3G motors called A20Ax. X- will vary from model. carb motors are A20A1 and EFI motors are A20A3. outside the US and canada the carbed motor was labeled as A20A2 and EFI A20A4.

I have a friend who is swaping B16 into his 3G coupe. well so far he spent close to $5K may be even more by right now.
the swaps are never cheap, but they are worth every penny when it comes to performance.
if you are on the budget of $3k i would say go with Sean's EFI kit and turbo package.

[SEiCOOLGUY]

is it possible for me to do a complete engine swap for about $2,500 or am I thinking unrealistically? I'd sell my A20 and the tranny...

I find B16's for around $1,500 and it comes with the tranny as well as some other stuff...what makes it so expensive?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=33615&item=2477566375&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

[Ducati]

Well, this old fart needs to do some learnin' - what is the Honda heirarchy of engines? Which are the best motors and why? Which motors are the most reliable, and which motors will run well on regular unleaded pump gas.
If I were to build a V8 beater, which engine would I be best to use?

Also, what is it about the G3 that seems to have earned that model such respect?
What would be the ideal Honda or Acura if you were to start all over again?

Too many years in the paint booth inhaling solvents has rendered my brain soft, and I am slow on the uptake. So forgive my noob-ness to this whole import thing.

[SteveDX89]

Honda has many engines.

Series:
A - 3g motors
B - Older version is JDM Accord, 3g Preludes. Newer version is the B16, B18 VTEC motors.
C - V6 engine
D - Civic except Si
F - Euro and USDM Accord, S2000
H - Prelude, JDM Accord (I think)
J - V6 engine
K - 7th gen Civic Si, RSX, 7th gen Accord

Which are the best is a matter of opinion. Some consider the best the most powerful, others think it's the one with most potential. All these motors are reliable, it's a Honda. For the V8 beater, it depends on what car you have. If it's a 3g Accord, turbo the stock motor or swap in a VTEC B-series. Those are the easiest 2 routes. Any of the others require custom mounts, axles, shift linkages, are wiring. The ideal Honda or Acura to start with is a CRX. They weigh 1800 lb. fully loaded. With an LS/VTEC or B18C1, you'll be hanging right with V8's. They'll get a good run at least.

[ICEMAN707]

or you can do away with the old schoolness and go for the new '01-'04 civic si and take out the k20 and swap in the acura rsx's k24 engine in there. it's a direct swap and produces power in the mid 200hp range slightly modded with intake and exhaust and cooling....say 240hp on normal-aspirated engine. if you go for going turbo or supercharging on the k24, there's even bigger possibilities. although the k series engines are still new and quite costly, those with the means to get a k24 have a great swap in their hands. as for the rest of us, we have to wait maybe 10 yrs till these engines can be easily accessible financially.

if you want straight out of the factory, the honda s2000 (240hp) is a good base to start with. slap in a turbo kit like the one from vortech or supercharger kit from comptech, and you'll be in the 350 hp range....double that power with some nitrous added.

[SteveDX89]

The RSX doesn't have a K24. It has a K20. The Accord has the K24. However, the same can be done as with an LS/VTEC. Take the K24 block for the torque and add the K20 head.

[ICEMAN707]

hmm my bad. lol. i just saw an article with a civic si with a k24 swap. i thought it was a acura rsx type s engine. (see the article here:http://superstreetonline.com/projectbuild/130_0402_skunk2civic/) hmm...so the accord's will fit into the civic as well? man that's nice. 2 direct swap engine possibilities for the civic si....what more can you ask for?...oh yeah, that's right, loads of $$$$$$$

personally, for the 3gee if i had the cash, my motor choice would be a b18c1 stroker crate motor bored out to 2.1L from Recon Engines Inc. it's 275hp @ 7,900 rpm. 190lb ft torque @ 6100 rpm. normal-aspirated. use Placeracing b18 swap kit (axles, harness, mounts, etc.) and an air/fuel management system like maybe A'PEXi Power FC. there's more to it than that of course, but just to get an idea...plus add turbo?? No2??

[Project-LXi]

IMO b16 is a waste of money, let me break it down:
Oldshcoolswap and WickedAccord have roughly equal work done to their swapped Accords, a b16, and a b18c1 (both engines remain naturally aspirated [no boost])

Oldchool's b16 accord runs a 16.5 second qm
Wicked's b18 runs a 13.5 qm

you do the math

...

b16 has less torque than your stock a20.
It is easier to get more torque out of an a20 than a b16

Oh, and Oldschool, your ride is sick so plz dont think Im puttin you down!!

...

Bring on the flamage :burn:

[Project-LXi]

Honda has many engines.
The ideal Honda or Acura to start with is a CRX. They weigh 1800 lb. fully loaded. With an LS/VTEC or B18C1, you'll be hanging right with V8's. They'll get a good run at least.

I have a 91 CRX Si, and I can honestly say I like my 4dr accord waaaaaaaay better!!!

Have you seen the size of the engine bay??? in it lies the miniature D15B2!

The b18c1 is big enough to fit in the Accord's engine bay, barely. Putting a b18c1 in a CRX would be like Ron Jeremy banging Mary Kate and Ashley.

[Project-LXi]

what exactly makes the B18C swap so expensive as compared a to a b16? how much money would i need to save?

Well, a b16 ranges between $900 and $1600 USD
a b18c1 ranges from $2500 to $4000 USD

[SteveDX89]

Oldchool's b16 accord runs a 16.5 second qm


Must have been fucked up. Stock Si runs 15.84. LX-i sedan weighs in about 100 lbs. more. Should be good for 16 flat.

[Project-LXi]

Ok I was doing some searching to find exact qm times.

WickedAccord: 13.969 @ 98.70

have yet to find Oldschool's will look some more

[88LXi68]

Ok I was doing some searching to find exact qm times.

WickedAccord: 13.969 @ 98.70

have yet to find Oldschool's will look some more

Why are you even comparing these two engines when Wicked's was built. As far as I am concerned any B-series is an upgrade over the A.

[Project-LXi]

Why are you even comparing these two engines when Wicked's was built. As far as I am concerned any B-series is an upgrade over the A.

If I remember right OldSchool had a list of real mods too.

[88LXi68]

If I remember right OldSchool had a list of real mods too.


He did not have any internals or machine work done.

[RobT5580]

Unfortunatly to gain some real HP you have to start building your internals so bolt on stuff seems to be more of a disappointment in my eyes unless you bump up the compression and start doing head work. Im not saying anything bad about Juans setup but your comparing a "built" motor with all the bolt ons to a "stock" motor with all the bolt ons.

[BMS]

I think that the 3g is just too big for a B16. Teg's weigh less than the 3g and even then they all have b18s. i think that the b16 is generally too weak for anything but a crx or small civic.

[johndej]

hmm........ your best bet for a 3g is to track down a B20 out of a EURO or JDM 3g accord (not the same as the ones in the preludes) and get even luckier and find one w/ a 5speed. from what i've read (no direct experience) the thing should drop right in and make more power then a B16 (o yeah, they've got 1.6L and the A/B20's have 2.0L).

[Justin86]

The B18C is a good engine esp if you want to go fast NA. Wicked is running 13's and Matt is hoping to run 12's with his engine. He's going all out bore and stroke kit, the works. But this is a crap load of money.
The best bang for your buck would to either turbo the A20 or swap a JDM B20 and turbo that.

[SteveDX89]

make more power then a B16 (o yeah, they've got 1.6L and the A/B20's have 2.0L).

:ugh: Not quite sure where you found that. Both engines make 160 hp.

[Project-LXi]

:ugh: Not quite sure where you found that. Both engines make 160 hp.

wrong

b16a = 160hp / 110 ft/lbs tq
b18c1 = 172hp / 128 ft/lbs tq

[Project-LXi]

He did not have any internals or machine work done.

I stand corrected

[Project-LXi]

I think that the 3g is just too big for a B16. Teg's weigh less than the 3g and even then they all have b18s. i think that the b16 is generally too weak for anything but a crx or small civic.

Actually the LIGHTEST 3rd Gen GSR Integra weighs 2 lbs more than a fully equiped 4dr 3rd gen Accord Sedan.

But yeah, you wouldnt want a b16 in a teg, so I agree with the last part

[SteveDX89]

wrong

b16a = 160hp / 110 ft/lbs tq
b18c1 = 172hp / 128 ft/lbs tq

Read his whole post before you post.


hmm........ your best bet for a 3g is to track down a B20 out of a EURO or JDM 3g accord (not the same as the ones in the preludes) and get even luckier and find one w/ a 5speed. from what i've read (no direct experience) the thing should drop right in and make more power then a B16 (o yeah, they've got 1.6L and the A/B20's have 2.0L).

[johndej]

well, i've heard they both have make 160hp but that the B20 has alot more torque

[SEiCOOLGUY]

I have a friend who is swaping B16 into his 3G coupe. well so far he spent close to $5K may be even more by right now.
the swaps are never cheap, but they are worth every penny when it comes to performance.
if you are on the budget of $3k i would say go with Sean's EFI kit and turbo package.



If the motor costs only around $1,500(US) why would end up coming out to $5K?

[wickedaccord]

to correct some people out there. i DO NOT have any machine work done to my motor. no port an polish, no overboring, no nothing. STOCK BLOCK. if some of you guys consider ITR pistons as aftermarket then something is wrong. but i consider ITR pistons as an OEM product. which it is. so technically, i have a stock block. the head, is a stock 97 ITR head. it was milled yes! but technically speaking again, it was resurfaced to 1/1000 of an inch which is practically nothing. everything else on the motor is practically stock parts. stock ITR intake mani, stock itr throttle body, and DC jdm 4-1 headers. hey, i know what works. do your homework...

yes i do have internals. but that's the only thing really working for me. skunk2 stage2 cams. hey, these cams work so y not. i had to fine tune it to get it to run correctly but in the end. it's probably one of the best set of cams you can ever buy.

as for comparing my set up to oldschools. first of all., not to diss oldschool at all cuz he was the first to ever do a bseries. but it is ok to compare because he is shooting NOS. and if he's shooting NOS, im sure he knows also, that he can easily make 170hp in combination with his set up. so in some ways, you can compare it. my cams almost gave me the amount of power his NOS gave him.

as for b20's making a whole lot more tq. NO! b20 is without a shadow of a doubt much cheaper. but! powerwise, no. i dont know how many times i have to stress this but IVE SEEN DYNO PULLS OF A B20 with i/h/e ignition system. it made 7 more lbs of tq than an a20, 111lbs of tq to 118lbs of tq. pulled more hp yes. it pulled 132hp to the wheels compared to 119hp to the wheels. basically, DONT KNOCK IT TILL YOU'VE TRIED IT.

this is the reason why i've been trying to hold another SO CAL DYNO meeting cause i want to see what's up with the b20 in cali. see how he's doin with his set up.... hope this shines some light

:bow: jon

[SteveDX89]

If the motor costs only around $1,500(US) why would end up coming out to $5K?

Mount Kit, Axles, Shift Linkage, Wire Harness. That's over $1,000. Then there's parts to replace on the motor. Just dropping the motor in without replacement parts is ridiculous. You're just asking for trouble. There's also little things that add up like your fluids and shit. If it's 10 bucks to do an oil change, it's more for that, coolant, and tranny fluid. If you take shortcuts, it will be cheaper but doing it right is always better in the end.

[Lok]

Dear wickedaccord , i want to ask you something regarding B18C1/C5 swap on
3G ACCORD....

Apart from PLACE RACING mounts, axles, swift rod.............do we need another
part ( i think a OEM HONDA bracket from B16 )????????

I spoke with Place racing on the phone, and they told me that ( apart from B16/B17/B18A......whish the swap is straigth forward with place racing kit) ' for b18c1/c5 swap, i need cable transmission and another 'bracket'............................
.................................................. .................................................. .........
But because english is not my first language, i didn't understand clearly, which bracket
i must change exactly?????????

Can you please give me more details , about which OEM HONDA bracket i need???????
and which its position in engine bay????????

THANK YOU VERY MUCH

[SEiCOOLGUY]

I recently recieved this email from K-Modified:

We do sell the B16 swap. The engine, ecu and trans is $1600. Axles are $150 each. The swap kit is $1000. The labor to install the engine is $600.
-KESE-

This is nowhere near $5K, its only like $3.7K...

[nismoracer99]

nice, i want to get a b18, but im going to try accord centrals thing.

i heard though its hard to get a hold of Sean, thats a huge bummer.

[shepherd79]

I recently recieved this email from K-Modified:

We do sell the B16 swap. The engine, ecu and trans is $1600. Axles are $150 each. The swap kit is $1000. The labor to install the engine is $600.
-KESE-

This is nowhere near $5K, its only like $3.7K...

yeah, K-modified will drop the B16A into your car for $3.7K but i am sure he won't replace the timing belt, the stock clutch with ACT, he won't add custom cold air intake, DC sports headers, MSD ignition and much much more. if you add all those things, you will get about $5K.
plus remember that little things add up like good oil, good oil filters and so on and on.
if you have $3.7K go ahead and let him do it, but don't run back to us and tell us that your timing belt broke or your water pump died and you overheated.

[SEiCOOLGUY]

yeah, K-modified will drop the B16A into your car for $3.7K but i am sure he won't replace the timing belt, the stock clutch with ACT, he won't add custom cold air intake, DC sports headers, MSD ignition and much much more. if you add all those things, you will get about $5K.
plus remember that little things add up like good oil, good oil filters and so on and on.
if you have $3.7K go ahead and let him do it, but don't run back to us and tell us that your timing belt broke or your water pump died and you overheated.


So if i leave the stock clutch, header, intake its bad for the B16A? Will i need a new timing belt and water pump?...as far as upkeep, don't you worry about that, i take VERY good care of my A20, and i would take even better care of an engine i spent so much money on...

[Gregg86DX]

So if i leave the stock clutch, header, intake its bad for the B16A? Will i need a new timing belt and water pump?...as far as upkeep, don't you worry about that, i take VERY good care of my A20, and i would take even better care of an engine i spent so much money on...

Timing belt is a must, cheap insurance.
Water pump is a very good idea, not that expensive and way easier to do when engine is out.
Clutch is very good idea too, same reason as water pump.
Probably want to do cap/rotor/plugs wires too.

If you just went with good stock replacement parts, I am guessing about $300 for these parts, plus a bit to install, but you could probably negotiate it into the install price since it's all pretty easy to do when the engine is out.

btw, that swap kit price of $1000 just blows my mind. It's not K-Mod's fault, it's that fact that Place racing gets like $600 for the motor mounts. There's about $10 worth of metal and poly in them and maybe a couple hours to fabricate. If I ever get super motivated (not likely) I am going to work on making swap mounts myself and see how hard it really is. Same thing with the wiring harness.

As a DIYer, I bet I could do a B16 swap for under $2K. :)

Gregg

[Justin86]

Well someone that does have a B-series swap could have their mounts copied and sell them for the rest of us.

[SEiCOOLGUY]

Well someone that does have a B-series swap could have their mounts copied and sell them for the rest of us.

That would be very handy...and very nice of them...

[SEiCOOLGUY]

As a DIYer, I bet I could do a B16 swap for under $2K. :)

Me and my friends would probably try it, except that we might screw it up, and that would suck pretty bad.

[Robs89LXi]

to correct some people out there. i DO NOT have any machine work done to my motor. no port an polish, no overboring, no nothing. STOCK BLOCK. if some of you guys consider ITR pistons as aftermarket then something is wrong. but i consider ITR pistons as an OEM product. which it is. so technically, i have a stock block. the head, is a stock 97 ITR head. it was milled yes! but technically speaking again, it was resurfaced to 1/1000 of an inch which is practically nothing. everything else on the motor is practically stock parts. stock ITR intake mani, stock itr throttle body, and DC jdm 4-1 headers. hey, i know what works. do your homework...

yes i do have internals. but that's the only thing really working for me. skunk2 stage2 cams. hey, these cams work so y not. i had to fine tune it to get it to run correctly but in the end. it's probably one of the best set of cams you can ever buy.

as for comparing my set up to oldschools. first of all., not to diss oldschool at all cuz he was the first to ever do a bseries. but it is ok to compare because he is shooting NOS. and if he's shooting NOS, im sure he knows also, that he can easily make 170hp in combination with his set up. so in some ways, you can compare it. my cams almost gave me the amount of power his NOS gave him.

as for b20's making a whole lot more tq. NO! b20 is without a shadow of a doubt much cheaper. but! powerwise, no. i dont know how many times i have to stress this but IVE SEEN DYNO PULLS OF A B20 with i/h/e ignition system. it made 7 more lbs of tq than an a20, 111lbs of tq to 118lbs of tq. pulled more hp yes. it pulled 132hp to the wheels compared to 119hp to the wheels. basically, DONT KNOCK IT TILL YOU'VE TRIED IT.

this is the reason why i've been trying to hold another SO CAL DYNO meeting cause i want to see what's up with the b20 in cali. see how he's doin with his set up.... hope this shines some light

:bow: jon

What exactly is ITR?

[Vinny]

What exactly is ITR?


Integra Type R

[3rd GEN]

well for you guys...i would say your best bet and best bang for the buck is b20
the B20 will just drop straight in.. no axles no nothing needed, just motor and tranny..
as far as b-series, they are good with LOTS of potential..jus a little more costly to get in a 3g..

even for me i'm having a tough decision..i have a g2 teg and i am contemplating putting in a b16 or b18c..b16 are very rev happy motors and once those rpms get up they scream.. only thing is smaller displacement and the teg is a bigger car for that motor to haul around..i can get a b16 for very cheap..like $1000 for motor/tranny..with trade in for my b18a motor

i could also go b18c ( JDM of course)..this motor also has alot of potential, but more costly..the price on this bad boy is about 3500 CDN..this includes motor and tranny..but then i won't loose the displacement..

but in reality..the cheapest, easiest and most bang for the buck is JDM b16 for me....

so really..it all comes down to what your lookin for and what you plan to do..
b20 is a very good candidate for turbo..b16/b18 are very good NA motors...