1989 accord died, need advice

[conquestpa]

So I was driving down to philly this past weekend to see my mom for mothers day. I was cruzin along and all the sudden I heard a snap, then the car dies. Tried putting it back in third to try to pop start it, nothing, sounded like the engine was spinning real fast like it lost compression...

Got to the side of the road, pulled timing cover, belt looks fine, teeth on belt look good. Crank engine over with starter timing belt doesn't move. Push car in gear while watching timing belt no movement (had some freinds with me at this point). Closer inspection revealed that the timing belt would vibrate but it wasn't spinng. all accessorys we're spinning, but not the timing.

Haven't had much time to look yet but what do you all think? It only had 115K miles on it.

[conquestpa]

[conquestpa]

ohh yeah, obviously I took the timing cover off to see what was going on. Im geussing that Ill need to try turning the crank over and seeing what it feels like.

[AccordEpicenter]

looks like youve already found the problem, install a new timing belt. If i were you id also install a new water pump at the same time, but only use a geniuine honda one.

[conquestpa]

The belt looks perfect though, you think it chewed up all the valves?

[Dibbs]

The belt looks perfect though, you think it chewed up all the valves?

did you take off the lower timing cover as well? WHen I threw mine years back, the belt looked perfect up top but when I took the cover off, all the rubber teeth were stripped.

[Vinny]

The only thing that connects the cam gear and the crank is the belt. If the timing gear isn't turning than more than likely the belt is bropken. Grab the belt at the cam gear and pull on it, see if its broken at the bottom where you can't see it. As far as the valves, here we go with the interference vs non-interference arguement. If the belt did break, from what I know myself, the valves should be fine.

[NXRacer]

Either you broke your timing belt or you snapped of the key in the crank. I've heard of that before. If the belt is still in one piece then that might be your problem.

[conquestpa]

Thanks Men, Im thinkiing that the key broke... I stopped by this mechanics to ask if I could borrow his tow dolly and told him what happened. He grabbed a book and said... Emmm you probably bent the valves... Not sure if he wanted my money or if he was just trying to help.... who knows. In any event im goin got need a new water pump, timing set and I may pull the head and put a new head gasket while im in there. praying that the top end is OK as well as the bottem end... Ill let you guys know...

[nswst8]

But Is the belt tight, if not could have just lost the tensioner. Since you said that all the other crank pulley accessories are still moving if you lost the crank key then the crank pulley wouldn't move.
I'd side with Vinny that its a safe bet that your valves are okay.
Just a new belt is about right, when was the last timing belt done.
Hope this helps,
NSWST8 :cheers:

[conquestpa]

Not sure yet, hoping to dig into it ummm hopefully this weekend. 13 hour days are killing me. the car 116K and I just bought it about 6 months ago. At least it got me through the winter...

[Vinny]

Correct me if I'm wrong but isn't the crank gear the only thing on the crank with a key. Isn't the actual crank pulley made to fit into the notch on the crank? I should know this since I just did the timing belt and all the oil seals but for some reason I know theres a seperate key for the gear but I don't recall one for the pulley

[accordlxi2.0]

plus you said the belt vibrated too but did'nt move, i think the belt teeth are stripped at the bottom.
plus your valve's are fine, . . . . . .

[conquestpa]

Hopefully Ill be able to tell what happened this weekend. I doubt Ill be able to get it running anytime soon, but I'll take a look and let ya ll know what I find out. Beside this is the reason I have a motorcycle.

at the very least Ill need to do the timing belt replacement, water pump, and Im thinking of replacing the head gasket while im in there.

I geuss I could look in the spark plug hold to try to tell if the valves are bent....

Thanks for the help guys :bow:

[locknload68]

I can almost guarantee the teeth are stripped. Had it happen to me.

You can tell if the valves are bent by checking the compression. Put the cam at TDC and crank the engine and check the compression on all cylinders.

[conquestpa]

I decided to just pull the head. Finally got around to doing it. Taking it off wasn't that bad. Getting it back on will probbaly be the hard part. Anyway it looks pretty good. The exhaust valves are a little white. Their was a little bit of grime in cylinder 2. Some left over anti freeze spilled into one of the cylinders. Cleaned it up best I could. I pulled the head with the manifolds attached. Once I got it out I removed the manifolds and then put the head back on temporairily to try to keep things from rusting up. The head gasket looked pretty new. Didn't get into the lower part of the timing cover to see whats going on down there. Im still wondering if the key broke that holds the lower timing gear, the teeth on the belt stipped off (seeing no evidence of that on the part of the belt I can see), or it the lower timing gear stripped the teeth off. I geuss that will be my next thing to look at.

QUestions:

should I worryt about the white valves? THe grime? The small amount of antifreeze spiller in one of the cylinders?

Should I have the cylinder head tested some how?

My plan is to replace the gaskets in the top end (head gasket etc...), timing set belt set, and water pump.

Anything else you can recommend doing while im in there? The car has about 120K on it.

:dunno:


I can almost guarantee the teeth are stripped. Had it happen to me.

You can tell if the valves are bent by checking the compression. Put the cam at TDC and crank the engine and check the compression on all cylinders.

[accordlxi2.0]

just wipe it out, it'll be fine.
if you want you can clean the valve's too, so wait you got a blown headgasket??

well in one of your previous post you said you could see the belt vibrat but not turn.
then you also said that all the other acceries were turning, but not the belt.

now as vinny said that if the key was broken.

someone else had this same problem.

BTW, your like the 7th, 8th timing belt victim, all those tim'e you kept cranking . . . . ..

[conquestpa]

Kept cranking? Im assuming that you mean that I kept running without attempting to replace the belt...

its true, but I only put about 10K on the car before it blew...

Ill let you all know more when I have more time to look at it...

:uh:



just wipe it out, it'll be fine.
if you want you can clean the valve's too, so wait you got a blown headgasket??

well in one of your previous post you said you could see the belt vibrat but not turn.
then you also said that all the other acceries were turning, but not the belt.

now as vinny said that if the key was broken.

someone else had this same problem.

BTW, your like the 7th, 8th timing belt victim, all those tim'e you kept cranking . . . . ..

[conquestpa]

Ok, next, how do I get the timing cover off.? I assume Ill need to pull the main pulley off but how? Put in gear and yank on it? clock wise or counter?

:uh:

[conquestpa]

Ok, sounds like everyone is having this problem. Is it possible to put a wrench on the crank bolt and a jack under it then jack up and hope the weight of the car breaks it?

[Moodybluesr]

Buy one of these:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=20772&item=4322890269&rd=1
to hold the crank pulley in place while you remove the bolt (counterclockwise).

The chain wrench should be available locally; I got mine for about $8 off-brand and have used it for every timing belt I have done.

[Vinny]

Wouldnt suggest doing that. Theres several ways you can do it and thats not one of them.
I've set a prybar in the timing inspection hole to wedge the flywheel so the motor doesnt turn over. Works well if you have a 5 speed

Remove the numer 1 plug and run some rope into the cylinder hole when the piston in all the way down, As it comes up the rope will prevent the piston from moving any further up and basically hold the crank in one place. Seen it done, did it myself a few times on bigger engines

Take it to a local shop and see if they will break it loose with and airgun for you.

I'd go with number 3 myself

[conquestpa]

why is it a bad idea to jack on a wrench under the car???

Head is already off the car.

Going to pick up one of those chain wrenches today.

[Elijah]

I would make sure you do the valve seals well your at it.That is where your getting your white grim.It means they leak.

[conquestpa]

still cant get the pully off, how can I keep the crank from moving while yanking on the bolt???

[accordlxi2.0]

have you tried useing a air gun??

are you trying to change the t-belt.

[conquestpa]

I wish I had air tools...

Heads already off. Changing head and want to do timing too...

Geuss Im going to have to get a good long pipe. Any tips on locking :lock: the crank in position?

[conquestpa]

Well I figured out how to get the crank locked down, I had a buddy hold down the brakes, while I yanked on it... Still wont budge..

Turning the wrench counter clockwise...

It'd be ashame if this car has to goto the crusher because I couldn't get the damned crank bolt loose.

:pc:

[justin89]

Ok, sounds like everyone is having this problem. Is it possible to put a wrench on the crank bolt and a jack under it then jack up and hope the weight of the car breaks it?
I had this problem when I changed my belt.first get a partner,second insert a long screw driver between the engine and the transmission(in the inspection cover by the engine code may have a rubber plug in it).place the socket with a breaker bar through the inside of the engine bay(by the belts.have your friend hold the screwdriver while you loosen the bolt which has a large amount of torque on it.when installing dont forget the two washers on both sides of the timing belt or your belt will come off.oh yea I torqued my crank bolt to 100ft-lbs and havent had a problem with it.

[88Accord-DX]

Ok, sounds like everyone is having this problem. Is it possible to put a wrench on the crank bolt and a jack under it then jack up and hope the weight of the car breaks it?
That sounds like a good idea, but most likely you probably aren't going to get the wrench to stay in place as the jack puts more pressure on it. I've seen different ways to break the crank bolt on here. You have to do a search on it.
Personally, I have access to heavy duty stuff. I got some 3/4" impact extenstions past my fender hooked on to the 22 mm socket (w/e size it is). Cut a 4 x 4 block to fit even where the extension meets the 3/4" BREAKER BAR. Had to put a 3' STEEL CHEATER BAR on the end of the breaker bar to break it loose. While that is going on, I had a co-worker hold the flywheel with a BIG flat head screwdriver with all he had. That crank bolt is on there tight as hell!

[89AccordLX2dr]

I never had any problem breaking mine loose when I did the water pump. Actually my buddy did it using a johnson bar while I held the brakes. Guess I got lucky, since I bought the car off someone who actually serviced it when needed so most bolts on the car are nice and easy to break free. Except for them damn axle nuts, now them some torqued on mofo's. 3/4"drive on them ones with a 6 foot cheater! :lol: I say, do what I did, make your buddy do the work while you sit in the car with your foot on the brake, use a 12 foot cheater if you have to.

[njpeter]

and beat the crap out of it with a $50 electric impactgun, that only worked on one car ( did put a small chip in the pulley), on another, I needed the local garage with the big airgun. You can rent that crap, but it'll be a pretty expensive bolt to remove, I figure a big compressor and airgun is going to be at least $80 a day.

I'm finally getting a new compressor, my oil burner line is clogged with sludge and the last time i had it done by a pro ( and that was ten years ago), it cost me $150, compressor costs $160 :-). That might reduce my busted knuckles a little.

uhh..next time you gotta bust that nut before you pull the head eh?

[conquestpa]

Got the bolt undone! Put car on jack stands, got under it with big breaker bar and 3 foot cheater pipe kicked at it while a friend held the brakes for me while car was in fourth gear. Almost have the timing cover off, need to get this thing back on the road soon...
getting too cold for the motorcycle here in central PA.!! :sadwave:


:lol:

[njpeter]

finally!..good job!

[89AccordLX2dr]

Got under it? There's an access hole in the wheel well that you remove so you can stick an extension through.

[conquestpa]

Here's some pics
http://www.geocities.com/conquestpa2005

check em out, wonder how that happened to the belt...

[conquestpa]

cars up and running perfectly... thanks again guys!

taking it to get inspected tomorrow.

still drips a little oil, but thats nothing new...

Had some ignition /vacuum issues, but I worked all those out... for the most part. broke what evers on vacumm line 18... so I just plugs that...

after I cleaned up the dist cap it helped allot.

seems like it has a little less power, maybe that will get back after I set the timing... not too clear of the procedure, but Im going to see what I can do...


:rockon:

[njpeter]

My daily driver, which always put out a little smoke on cold starts is now really embarassing me in the morning, to the point that I changed valve seals last weekend, but still no improvement ( what a pain in the back that job is), I suspect cylinder wall damage, noticed a spark plug insultator had fractured, and I'm afraid the cylinder walls are screwed. I'm talking about major "musta blown the negine" coulds of oil smoke. On the pff chance it was egr or something like that, I chwecked it all out today..no dice..maybe the head gasket is leakin, or the head itself is cracked, anybody with an idea?

I have 4 quarts of "smokeless oil -(please don't laugh, I don't have time for this right now) on order, not a true oil of a reptillian nature, this stuff is synthetic type, and allegedly has a high enough flash point not to burn, guess it'll sludge up my catalytic converter, but I just have to pass inspection in a few weeks.

I really don't want to be changing engines or trannies right now, I'm inclined to buy another car first. Can't believe I'm almost out of running cars...right before winter too.

smokeless oil..what the hell am I thinking..oh right..I'm **(*(& deperate now.

[truetune]

I say delete that post of yours and start a thread about your problem, youll get more help. are you getting AM soil or something? sounds like blown head gasket bro. whats the oil in your car look like now? start a new thread if you want to continue dis y0.