typical power question... NOT turbo

[Vanilla Sky]

what kind of power is possible with the a20 motor, fully built... i would still want to run on pump fuel, and be completely streetable... i do believe sean has me backed up with ways to get custom one-off parts if needed... i will be converting to his EFI system, or going with an ITB route with stand-alone systems...

pricey, yes... fun, yes... worth it? that's the real question

[smufguy]

For an NA motor, its always the higher rpm route with a 4cyl like ours. Different Manifold that can breathe good at high RPM, better flowing head, wilder cams for longer duration, adjustable cam gear to set the valve opening and closing time period and valve overlap periods, ARP studs, high compression (something like 11:1 or what not), atlest 350cc injectors, highvolume fuel pump, regulator. WIde band O2 sensor, so u can get the most power outta ur engine by tuning vial ur standalone, a good grabbin clutch and a LSD. The last two just add the finishing touch of the whole work.

You can also use different valves, guides and springs, but i doubt if its needed. :)


WIth all this done, i dont think u can push anymore than 150hp or 160hp but it all depends. I mean ignition advance and leaner a/F mixutre might not give u more hp on the dyno, cause richer A/F does, but on the road, ur response will be much greater.

[Vanilla Sky]

if that's all that it's gonna net, i'd be better off with a b20a...

[Justin86]

Also maybe some engine mangement to help squeze even more out, and a good P&P job. But I would say about 160WHP maybe more amd you could throw on a 50shot and a teg tranny. You might be able to hit 14's if you do enough, but it might be better to do a swap. I would pay attention to the new ECON motor being built and see what figures it puts out.

[Vanilla Sky]

i don't want nitrous... i want a simple, reliable N/A motor... i'm thinking that much more than 160 or so is available out of these a20 motors... P&P, pistons, individual throttle bodies, tuned full exhaust system (including headers), larger valves, wild cam grind, new rods, new bearings, new springs... i wouldn't be at all surprised if 300 hp can be squeezed out of this motor, N/A

[A20A1]

I'm saying at least 280

[Vanilla Sky]

and that would make it a dollar-for-dollar better deal than a motor swap, considering every other motor that will go in there will still have to be modified to have that much power... might be able to keep the build of the motor itself (not including electronics) to around $5000... long term plan, of course... i'm just glad i have a spare motor to play with

[Gregg86DX]

...i wouldn't be at all surprised if 300 hp can be squeezed out of this motor, N/A

Maybe you wouldn't be surprised, but personally, I would fall out of my chair, passed out cold.

If you are not gonna use a power adder, then the only way to make serious power is with a lot of RPM, and the A20 has a relatively small bore/long stroke, which works against high RPM potential. Even if you could do it, you would end up with a peaky, un-streetable pain-in-the-ass motor.

The design of the A20 is soooo much better suited to a turbo.

Gregg

[Robs89LXi]

Maybe you wouldn't be surprised, but personally, I would fall out of my chair, passed out cold.


LOL! Couldn't have said it better.

[Justin86]

Damn thats a lot of power on pump gas. Maybe push 200 WHP but thats with high compression and better gas, not a realible street motor.

[Vanilla Sky]

well, i'm dealing with crank figures, so that makes a difference in itself... now for streetability, meybe i can have two predetermined profiles to run the car, one for street driving, one for high performance driving... almost like vtec... same concept really

[Justin86]

hum well it still takes time to swap cams in and out.

[smufguy]

Well our bottom end is rock solid, but then again because of that advantage, we lose to weight. our motors dont rev up that great because of the heavier bottom end. and even tho with good head job i doubt if its gonna make crazy ass power. I have seen friggin TRD N/A motors squeeze out 240hp out of their crazy ass motor with ITB manifolds. nothing more different in hp figures as the F20c on our S2000, but again those are dual cams and all aluminum engines. with crazy ass compression and the F20c can rev to 9K and the TRD tuned 4AGE can go up to 11K (yep u saw that on Initial D and its true). So yeah, there are limitations to our A20 but there is always a way to get that shit on the go. But you will be suprised how much power u get, once u take off that nasty EGR, despite the fact your car wont have any power at all at the low or mid rpm, you will still be making all the power u want, but the important question is where you will be making the question.

This is the only reason, i switched to turbo induction because it was the only alternative where i can have more power under normal engine operation than a NA car. :)

[Vanilla Sky]

hum well it still takes time to swap cams in and out.
i didn't mean cams... hell i don't mind a high revving street car as long as i can have it idle and not die

i know our bottom ends are heavy as hell, but if i'm not mistaken the a16 crankshaft is a direct swap, and that reduces stroke and helps me rev higher... that along with forged aluminum rods and pistons will more than likely rel me rev a lot higher, but i'd lose a lot of low-end... i'm fine with that... just means i have to build the rest of the motor to suit it... i know the head may flow enough with a good P&P job, but the valvetrain will have a hard time keeping up... all i'd have to do is cross-reference and get some titanium springs and retainers, and maybe have the lifters copied in a stronger and lighter metal... i just think N/A is better than forcefeeding with turbo or a supercharger, and a lot better than bottlefeeding it with nitrous...

[johnwc723]

arrg when you are talking this much shit it would be way cheaper to go buy another car or maybe just turbo this one

[Sean]

i dont forsee any issue with revving a a20a with good rod's and crank lightening upto 9500 rpm along with lightweight pistons. it would be fiarly simple to break the 200hp barrier to but the cam itself might not lend well to street manners. the a20a head can flow like a mofo however.,

[smufguy]

a built up NA is good for circuit racing, but not for a daily driver, cause ur not using any of the power u desired under normal driving. Besides, no matter what, the idle is gonna suffer due to different cams, because the lobes are gonna be different, and dont u think u would need some kinda computer to take care of the ignition and fuel even tho its still an NA?

[Vanilla Sky]

when i say "idle", i don't mean the usual 750 RPM... i couldn't care less if the idle speed had to stay above 1500RPM to keep running smoothly... i guess my idea of streetable is different from everyone elses... i would really like to do this in another accord, though... that way i can have one that hogs premium fuel and doesn't know what an idle speed is, and still have a good commuter that's good on gas and has the heavier equipment like AC, power options, and a stereo... not really to have a dedicated race car, but to have one that doesn't sit in a parking lot often enough to be scoped out and jacked...