Limited Slip Differential?

[Busted_Blue]

Is there a way to add an LSD to the car? I'm curious on that idea, as I want to keep this engine and keep my car streetable but gain some handling. I search the forums but the engine didn't give me any results close to what i wanted.

Is there a way to add an LSD and if so where? I've looked around and many places have LSDs for other cars but not ours. Is there a way to custom it?

thanks for any input! I'm learning.



note: not sure if this is performance thread, but handling is performance right?

[zero.counter]

phantom grip?

[deadlight]

Quaiffe and Phantom Grip like zero said are the best advice I can give you, it seems like Quaiffe makes a limited slip for everybody. If none of the turbo guys have upgraded to an lsd yet I wouldn't worry too much about it.

[AccordEpicenter]

as far as i know the only lsd anybody makes is the phantom grip for 86-89 tegs

[smufguy]

Yep u dont have a LSD made for our cars, but u haev to get a LSD for the 1st gen integra and put it in. I dont know why u dont wanna have a LSD when u go for more power cause it helps a lot with traction. I know for sure i am gettign one. THe only reason i wanna go with a viscous couplin like Phantom grip is because of their price. Quife is a mechanical LSD costin around $800.

[Busted_Blue]

I wanted to experiment with LSD and see how handling is changed during autocrossing. From what other cars install, it should be for a positive change. anyone have ideas on that?

[smufguy]

there is no question about if ur performance would change or not. Cause downright if ur a serious autocrosser or drag racer, u will notice ur traction increase mad good.

[AccordEpicenter]

smurf do they make a quaife for our cars or even 86-89 tegs?

[86LXItooFAST4me]

I have heard that the phantom grip sucks ass. is this true?

[AccordEpicenter]

it depends on the setup... if not enough tension is put on the spider gears... yeah it sucks balls. If its setup nicely (lots of tension on the spider gears) is effective but its not as good as a quaife or a true LSD

[deadlight]

I haven't heard a whole lot of good relating to the phantom grip, they made one for the SHO for awhile, but it sucked apparently and everybody switched to quaiffe, just go with quaiffe if you're going for a limited slip.

[Gregg86DX]

I have heard that the phantom grip sucks ass. is this true?

I've heard that it works ok for drag racing, but not so good for autocross. It also can wear out the differential prematurely, since it is substantially increasing the side-loading on the spider gears in ways they were not designed to withstand.

I thought about putting one in my B20A tranny, but since parts for that thing are so damn hard to find, I won't risk prematurely wearing ANYHTHING!

Gregg

[Busted_Blue]

thanks for the info, looks like i'll look into quaife. Definitely want an LSD for my car, it will be a nice add to the handling aspects of the car.

[smufguy]

I have heard that the phantom grip sucks ass. is this true?

LIke i said above, quife is a mechanical LSD, the most desirable LSD. BUt phantom grip on the other hand is a Viscous Coupling, so yeah its not the best one, but its the only one avaible for our application.

Quife does not make one for us, the following is all they make for Hondas.

Honda - Sealed Diff for chain drive (Civic B16-based) 60.309.145 995.00
Honda - Civic / CRX 1990-91 Si, plus non Si / EX 1988-99 (35mm bearings) * 60.309.150 995.00
Honda - Civic / CRX Si / EX models 88-99, except 90-91 Si (40mm bearings) * 60.309.155 995.00
* 1990-91 Civic Si models: Confirm bearing size on car before ordering !
Honda - Civic / del sol VTEC dohc, Integra GS/LS '90-00, Integra GS-R '92-93 60.309.160 995.00
Honda - Civic Si 1999-2001 VTEC dohc (B16) 60.309.160 995.00
Honda - Accord 1990-97, Prelude 1992-96, Prelude 1997-00 except SH 60.309.170 995.00
Honda - Acura Integra GS-R 1994-2000, Integra Type R 1998-2001 60.309.180 995.00
Honda - Civic EP3 Si 5-sp, Acura RSX / RSX-S DC5 (5+6-speed) 60.309.190 995.00

[AccordEpicenter]

the SHO ones they had a problem because the SHO stock diff is weak, and adding a phantom grip doesnt help strengthen it.. the quaife units are much stronger

[speedpenguin]

so is there a quaife we can convert to use in a A20?

[bobafett]

phantom grip LSD, www.phantomgrip.com
arizona race twin trac (same idea as PG, but cheaper) http://www.azracemachine.com/

[smufguy]

no sir, no quaife LSD are available for us, either directly or modifyable. SO yeah, it SUCKS.

[Smoke'em]

Yep u dont have a LSD made for our cars, but u haev to get a LSD for the 1st gen integra and put it in. I dont know why u dont wanna have a LSD when u go for more power cause it helps a lot with traction. I know for sure i am gettign one. THe only reason i wanna go with a viscous couplin like Phantom grip is because of their price. Quife is a mechanical LSD costin around $800.


Just remember that you pay for what you get. i have herd bad things about the phantom grip unit not working properly. The other one actuly uses your diff and machines it to add cluthes unlike the phantom and then they put the rest off the springs and everything in. plus the fun part is always putting it in. :rice:

[smufguy]

there are a lot of guys who are satisfied with phantom grip LSD. so unless there is an actual user here who has had a very bad experience with it, i say just quick the barking. U heard someone have a bad deal with it, well lets be specific about what exactly bad happened to em and what they were doing with it. Besides, a viscous coupling is the same kinda diff you find on the EVO center differential, it might not be the expensive mechanical diff found on the STI or the quaife, but we always know what we get paid for, its a saying that has been beaten to the bush. But when ur given with just one choice, I dont think u can call something with just one as an option, u better take it.

[Busted_Blue]

so anyone try phantom grip? i really want to look into getting an LSD. Is it even possible? What is the reliability of viscious LSD vs mechanical?

Future plan was to swap a integ LS motor b18a and match it with a b16a tranny with LSD. (Depends on cash flow)

[Vanilla Sky]

a while back, there was an article in SCC where they changed the viscious LSD that came in the 350Z that they got as a testbed... after what many would consider abuse (although i would consider it normal driving for that car), the diff ended up being almost as bad as an "open" diff when pushed... they went with a mechanical and it was MUCH better than stock from the get-go, no more waiting for it to lock up, and it seemed to hold up better... i know a few people that have had phantoms and the such, and end up jus replacing them with either a gear diff or a plate diff...

as for getting a mechanical diff in a 3gee, i don't think anybody has emailed around, nor do i think anybody has looked at all the manufacurers of diffs for solutions

BTW, andy (phy....whatever [has the dcoe in his avatar]) has the phantom... why don't you ask him about it

[smufguy]

what andy has a LSD???? damn...... that SOB. yeah i dont know if he is alive. I know Chris (Civtek) who used to own a 3g and was a memeber here, has a phantom grip on his turbo civic.

[Vanilla Sky]

he pops up around here every once-in-a-while... not to put words in his mouth, but i believe he said it's much better than no LSD, but there's room to improve it

[Gregg86DX]

I did a lot of research when I was looking to put one in my B20A and there are a lot of people who are happy with them, but there are definitely some horror stories out there. If you look at the mechanics of how they work, there is no question that they will wear the spider gears faster than normal. How much faster is the question. Phantom Grip even acknowleges this problem somewhat since they offer special differential pins to improve oiling and help offset the problem.

The bottom line for me is that if I kill the differential in my B20A tranny, it may be almost impossible to repair, and I just can't take that risk. If you are using the stock A20 differential, then replacement parts are just a junkyard away and I say go for it!

Gregg

[Busted_Blue]

Well, i do more research. Thanks for the help. any more suggestions/comments are welcomed!

[86LXItooFAST4me]

phantom grip LSD, www.phantomgrip.com
arizona race twin trac (same idea as PG, but cheaper) http://www.azracemachine.com/

hey boba, you know the AZ race people? they do good work?

[bobafett]

no but the hmt guys do

[w00tw00t111]

Hey guys don't mean to revive a thread that's been dead for a while but, since many of my turbo parts have been ordered and I know that traction can be a major problem for us. So the only two options that I know that could improve traction is getting DOT racing slips w/ a low psi setting and a LSD. So my question is whether or not the 86-03 teg LSD will work. http://www.phantomgrip.com/product_lists.php?make=Acura first listing on this page. Also, I saw this LSD installed on a SpeedTV show and I just hope to god that it comes with instructions because it looked quite confusing. Any extra help would be great.

[PhydeauX]

It will fit. I have one in my car. I wish I had the stronger springs, now that I have bigger carbs its hard to notice it's there some times. It'll wedge itself in there durring launch and lock up both wheels, but the rest of the time it might as well be an open diff. The PG is not a viscous lsd, its friction based, but with no friction surfaces like a clutch type; Its metal on metal and not as effective.

OPM motorsports still lists theirs, I didn't see any mention of it in this thread.
http://www.opmautosports.com/products/honda_accordlxi.html

It's probalby the best option for the 3g if you can pony up the cash for it.

andy

[smufguy]

lemme get this straight. other cars' LSD will fit our stock tranny? what is that car and year again?

[w00tw00t111]

Do you mean softer springs up front? Unfortunately I don't have 675 for the clutch LSD. I'm not wanting to AutoX just drag race and street drive. Just don't want to spin my tires taking off from every stop light.

[bobafett]

lemme get this straight. other cars' LSD will fit our stock tranny? what is that car and year again?

its a generic lsd that fits in several types of trannies. this is an aftermarket style lsd, its not anything like a stock VSLD that would come in a vehicle from the factory.

im sure i posted the part number that fits, somewhere in the thread.

also, these aftermarket lsds will eat diffs, its just a fact of life...

[RobT5580]

If you want a real LSD then i suggest sending yours out to have it matched up. Chances are you might get lucky like i did and have a direct match. My B20A has a quaife LSD from a B16A in it. I sent my stock one out and they matched it up perfectly. Granted its a $1000 diffenetial but they now offer cheaper versions such as the OBX which is a much better alternative than the phantom grip.

[smufguy]

If you want a real LSD then i suggest sending yours out to have it matched up. Chances are you might get lucky like i did and have a direct match. My B20A has a quaife LSD from a B16A in it. I sent my stock one out and they matched it up perfectly. Granted its a $1000 diffenetial but they now offer cheaper versions such as the OBX which is a much better alternative than the phantom grip.

thats what i wanted to do. Cause i know you sent ur diff in and got one matched, and carotman got his B20A cam gears from a 4g accord (the adjustable ones) rather than custom making them. Thats what i wanna do with the clutch and the Diff, hopefully they have something that is similar to a A20 diff.

ps: thats what i was askin for, not the phantom grip.

[bobafett]

lol sorry praveen.. :)

yeah this would be an awesome option... i wonder if i'll need it after the rebuild... i know rob will need his as soon as the car is tearing up the streets.

[RobT5580]

Praveen, I have the 4th gen accord gears but there not on it yet. I sold carotman Mike Lee's custom made set that i bought. As for the LSD its great i am glad i spent the extra money and got a real LSD from Quaife. I never could drive the car in snow with the racing harts on and i drove the car last december with the LSD with no problems. Plus its nice to take off when you launch the car im still playing with it and working on the burnouts but i stopped messing around due to the knocking. Once in a while i pull it out to go for a quick run but im in the middle of swapping in a stock b20a.

[Ichiban]

so if they build the lsd around your diff core, presumeably any honda diff would be doable? (87 prelude tranny)

[truetune]

wont our car hook up both tires from a good launch as of now? I know mario had both tires lit up in a burn out he did with the new trany swap he did.

[88Accord-DX]

I know Phantom has LSD for the the tranny. Here is a link from Honda-Tech.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1085206

[smufguy]

okay here is the line up of good and real Limited Slip Differential. They come in the forms of Clutch type, Viscous Coupling or Mechanical LSD (aka Locking and Torsen LSD).

The most common type is the clutch type, not as great, but works amazing on street cars. Cheaper to get, not big in size and usually available as an aftermarket for street cars as LSDs to replace the stock open diffs.
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/differential-limited-slip.jpg

The Viscous coupling is just a fluid filled container with different plates in it. It works on the friction between the plates and the viscosity of the fluid passing thru it. THe plates acutually spin at different rates and the viscous fluid inside of it helps to distribute the torque. This type of diff is found in the AWD cars where they are positioned as the Center Differentials.

The mechanical type is the bulkiest and the most expensive one. THey are usually controlled either Electronically, Pneumatically or hydraulically, they are usually the same set up as an open diff, but have either a electronic, pneumatic of hydraulic mechanism that on activation locks both the sides. Usually found on AWD cars and sometimes used as the Center diff on performance off road vehicles.
http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/differential-locking.jpg

So final verdict is that, for any car use, a clutch type LSD is preffered and a manual locker being put in, like the phantom grip is not advised. They are good for drag racing, but once performance driving includes a roadcourse or autocross or a daily driver, this is NOT advised. So yeah, next time you hear someone say Phantom grip lsds are not real and they eat up ur diffs, well you know why ;).

[w00tw00t111]

Well praveen that clears up alot for me. If you don't mind explaining one more thing. Where exactly are any of these LSDs installed?

The reason that I am wanting one is b/c my turbo accord will mainly be a street driven ride but, I would like to take it to the track occasionaly. From talking with accordepicenter he said that when he bumped up his boost to give him 300 ponies he was spinning his tires from every stop light. Well I've already been pulled over twice for spinning tires/excessive acceleration when I wasn't even trying to peel out. So, needless to say I'm very scared about being pulled over for that seeing as though it would be happening at almost every stop. Thanks for all the help you guys.

[88Accord-DX]

In the transmission or transaxle case is where the LSD will go..

[smufguy]

A LSD or just a Differential is the place where ur axles are stuck in. DIfferentials actually distribute the driving power from the engine via the transmission to the wheels.

With or without an LSD, u will spin ur tires if u are not careful. We do not have traction control so yeah, u can do a crazy monstrous burnout if u have a right foot that weights 10000000000000000lbs. I would say just practice out how to ease the clutch in, rather than dropping it, once ur into 1st gear, u can drop it in 2nd if u wnat. but once u go turbo, u need to be careful how u drive around the city. besides, u can tune it in a way that you can have a city mode, and a race mode. Since the turbos work off of manifold pressure, ur highway miles (very low vaccuum) should be pretty decent.

[AccordEpicenter]

ive been told that putting a preload on your front swaybar in a fwd car on the side you tend to spin on will help you launch much better, but thats for drag racing only, not auto-x

[smufguy]

on a open diff, there is no prediction of which side will spin first and what not. even tho the driver side is the drive side for us, i have seen pass sides kick in before the driver's side does. and this was in a straight line, on the same road.