Starting problem, I need some advice (not the question asked a million times)

[AQcz]

First I want to say that I searched before I posted. I found some useful info and tried that out, but I still need some advice (a lot of the advice I need is due to the info I found).

My car has a starting problems sometimes. When I first got the car (about 2 months ago) the weather was cooler in NY and I didn't have the problem as often. Could be because it was colder, or maybe the problem just wasn't as bad as it is now...

When I go to start in the morning I get that coughing noise for about five seconds then it usually starts. I searched for that problem a few weeks ago and came up with main relay. After almost breaking my hand by squeezing it into the small space I was able to get the relay out and check the joints. There were some dry joints as suggested in the links Main relay (http://www.markl.f9.co.uk/howto/electrical/main-relay/main-relay.htm). I resoldiered the dry joints. To make a long story short it still gives me that problem. It used to be mainly when I had the car hot, got gas or something and tried to start again. Now it's becomming more common to happen even when the car is cold. **Note** When I turn the key to position two I hear the click as if the car is getting gas when the light goes out.

I took it to a mechanic over the weekend (one I know) and after checking it out he said it looked like the distributor. Took it to another mechanic and they concurred.

Took to a thrid mechanic on monday and after checking they said the alternator was the problem. They did a check and the alternator showed up bad on the meter. Got quoted, could get that fixed no problem but I want to be sure that's what's causing the problem (from some of what I found while searching it suggests the alternator wouldn't cause the car to cough like that or not start). True or false? I don't know...

Some other notes**

- When I purchased the car the people I got it from did a recent tuneup/ changed timing belt.
- 2nd mechanic to check it looked at spark plugs and they were fine.
Alternator came up bad on meter as mentioned.
- Sometimes after coughing the car will give a squeeking noise just as it starts (best I could describe is like a chalk board being scratched). That only happens after a terrible start. When it coughs for maybe 10 secs or so.
- The air-filter isn't that clean. Will obviously be changing but not sure that it could have anything to do with my problem.
- Main relay had a "few" places with some brown substance on the green board when I checked it. Not like it was corroded, it was more of a caramel type buildup. Solid, not something that could rub off.

- Lastly when I got in the car monday morning after driving for approx 10min, went to class, came out one hour later and went to the start the car nothing happened when I turned the key. The battery, seatbelt, etc.. came on and I heard the click when the orange light went off but no cranking or anything. Tried a few more times and still nothing. Tried my remote start and after a few coughing spells it started. Turned car off when I got home and tried to start with key. Coughed but started up

Car is 88 Accord Lxi 2DR Auto

If this is a lot my bad, summed it up with everything I think could be useful

Thanks

[86LXi|JustONE]

sounds like the starter has givin up on you...try testing that its a bitch to get to but im pretty sure that might just be your problem.

if its not id have that alternator tested and the distributor replaced just for safe measure...

[k-roy]

ok that squeaking is a loose belt, tighten it. That could be why the alternator tested bad. And replace the damn air filter, its cheap as hell. Just say fuck it and run without the filter for a few minutes for testing purpuses. Do the fuel filter too, and try running a higher octane fuel.

If I was a betting man I would bet that the timing belt is off by a tooth or two. It sounds like it could be multiple issues....

[AQcz]

Just to give an update. I got a new alternator, new air filter, and a new main relay jus to be safe...

That shit is still doing it when I start it after all of that...

At this point i'm like F it. Not putting another penny in this car. When it starts it runs fine, but that start is annoying as hell. Has to happen when I'm on a busy street or something...

I'ma jus go for something new and sell this soon. Or asap if I get a good offer

[cvergi01]

next time it does that, try to whack the starter with a wrench a couple times and see what happens. that is the best way to tell if it is your starter.

[AQcz]

Thanks for the info cvergi01 and to 86LXi / K-Roy (I forgot to say that in my last post).

I'll try that.

One thing I do notice now is that it always gives me the two clicks when the orange light comes on and goes off. Brand new relay so it better. It still does that wierd start though, even when cold at times.

I can't type how it sounds..... It's not your regular continuous cough, it's more like **cough............cough..........cough........... (with pauses between)** lights flash and dim on dash while it does that too....

When I was getting my AC checked at pep boys I asked the mechanic what caused that and he said the starter. So far I've been told starter, distributor, timing may be off, main relay, alternator, may need fuel injection treatment, fly wheel, and a whole bunch of other shit...

Considering that after I got a brand new main relay and alternator I still have the problem that was wasted money. I did need them (at least i'd like to hope so), but only to an extent. At this rate everything is gonna be new under the hood. Watch is still not work... lol

Thanks

[cruznz]

i think k_roy might be on to it...that the timing belt might be off a tooth....have you checked for any codes?

[AQcz]

I checked for codes, never get anything...

Took it to a mechanic and had the timing belt checked. They said it was stretched. Took it to two more mechanics and they said the same. I was able to get a new one for $10 online so not too bad. Have somebody to put it in so no big deal.

After this the Starter, Alternator, Main Relay, and Timing belt will all be new.



Thanks again

[BlueBead]

The alternator won't effect your starting at all besides taking a little torque away from the starter. All it really does is charge the battery. If your starter is messed it'll usually hang and you'll get a click click when you turn the key but it won't turn over. If your timing is screwed, and I think K-roy called this one right.
this problem really breaks down into four areas:
1) starter- turns crank and makes ignition possible
2) ignition - provides spark for combustion
3) timing - controls ratio when valves are opening and closing
4) fuel/air - ingredients for combustion and therefore power.
If your timing is off (you said stretched belt) then the valves will be opening and closing at the wrong moments, and it will be really hard for the engine to run.
If the ignition is messed, you could be not getting enough of a spark to fire all the cylinders and it'll cough. I'd really recommend checking the distributor and coil. The easiest way is to check for spark at each plug. If you have a good plug then you should be fine in that dept.
This sounds like it's been getting worse, so it could be the belt stretching over time, or maybe an electrical component on it's last legs.
Anyways, good luck, and don't give up on it. These cars are great!

[accordlxi2.0]

that cough cough then pause, i had.
it was my battery.
cause it would do that then pause then run like nothing was wrong.
since you have a remote start the relay to the module could be thet problem.
cause while wiring my alarm i fried, my alarm did that too, they gave me a new one problem sovled!!!

[carotman]

When it coughs, does the RPM goes off chart??? Just like accordlxi2.0, my starting problems I had last year were caused by a bad battery... It had enough voltage but couldn't keep up with the correct ampereage long enough to provide a clean start. When it did that, the rpm bounced up to almost 6k. I replaced the starter (glad I have a parts car) and it didn't solve the problem. I had my alternator die on me so I had to replace the brushes. I recharged the battery a couple of times after this and it would start fine only when I had recharged the battery.... now it starts fine with my new battery.

[AQcz]

While the car is coughing and I'm attempting to start it the RPM constantly jump up and down between maybe 1 & 6 (could be higher or lower) and the battery, seatbelt, and other dash lights flicker (dim and flash) while it's attempting to start.

I already listed what I had changed above.

Now here is the new problem. I could've posted a new topic but will just continue here.

I left the car sitting for two days about a week ago and when I tried to open it with my alarm I noticed I wasn't getting a response. Got up to the car and when I looked inside I saw the blue alarm light wasn't flashing so I figured my battery was dead. Checked it out... Battery was dead (turned key, got nothing). Got a jump and it seemed to run fine. I drove it for about 5 days (all short distance, probably 30 miles one day. The other four maybe 0.2 mile combined) and left it sitting for two days again. This time I used my remote start after the 1st day just to let it run a little. I turned the car off with the remote and was on my way out approx ten mins later. Passed by my car and got something out of it so I know it was off.

(today is day 2) I'm getting ready to drive it about 60 mins ago. Alarm opens, I get in. Turn key, dash lights come on but I notice the orange light didn't come on. No start. Tried it again and the orange light came on and clicks this time as normal but still no start. When I turn the key no crank or anything. Lights just come on.

I also notice when I turn the key to the start position the clock and other lights dim. The clock fades back to being bright but it takes a few seconds. I also notice that when I try to turn on the headlights only one goes up, and the windows go down real slow.

Just before I said forget it and was gonna get out I tried again and heard a very low almost impossible to hear little crank but it still didnt' start.

The poster above said the battery could be my starting problem, is this true?

I kno for a FACT I didn't leave anything on in the car. I always check. Besides that all I have is a radio anyway. Lady that I got the car from told me to let the radio beep 3 times when I turn the car off before I take the face off or it will kill the battery. (sounds stupid, but I always do it anyway).

When I was getting a boost I noticed the battery says van, truck, suv...

I don't really drive this car so that's why I haven't really been rushing with it. Would like to find out what's going on though...

Thanks

[accordlxi2.0]

so you've replaced the battery already????

[AQcz]

Not yet. I'll make it to the auto store around 5PM NY time.

I just wanted to get a little insight on:

- Could the battery be what was causing the starting problem after all. (Either way I'm going to have to replace it and will soon find out, but since someone suggested that before I even posted my problem I'm just wondering if that's possible).

- I'm also wondering why the battery died to prevent it after buying a new one. Supposedly the battery was pretty new when I purchased the car. They gave me the receipt for it and the starter. I have to find it. Like I said I know I didn't leave anything on.

And basically just wanted to see if anybody else had a response to anything else I posted.

[86LXItooFAST4me]

man how is your alt belt? how tight is it and what shap is it in? i had hell with my car one time and replaced my alt twice and a bunch of relays. turned out it was the alt belt, it had a few cracks and chunks missing when i took it off. put a new one on and make that shit tight. looks like yall have covered everything else i could think. but i havent read anything about the alt belt. try checking that out. it was the last thing i thought would be wrong too.

[accordlxi2.0]

i mean it's like this.
they could've got the new battery then the alt fail on them, keep on jumping the battery.
on top of that being a cheap battery too.
but i've learned that if the battery keep's dying and you jump it so many time's. the battery is no good.


okay one more thing when you go to start do you hear the beep sound as you go to start, and when you start it the beeping fade's . . . .

[AQcz]

Alt belt I'll have to check so I'll get back to you on that one...

When I went to start it now there was no beep sound. Just the regular two clicks of the ECU. I'll check that again as well though.

I'm about to start heading to the auto store in 30 min or so

Thanks

[AQcz]

Got new battery, car runs now.

Old battery read 0 when tested...

Starting problem (cough cough, studder....) still there. Will look into it more

EDIT:

I forgot to add that when the car was cold and I started it for the first time after installing the battery it started up smooth on the first try. Tried it about ten times and it started up smooth 7/10 times. The other three wasn't as bad of coughing as usual.

I took it for a drive (about 10 minutes) and when I got back and parked I tried again. Starting problem is just as bad as before. It's worst when the car is hot. The two ECU clicks always happen so it's not a fuel prob.

[accordlxi2.0]

hmmm . . . . . try this, go out start your car, let it warm up and such.
then take off the negative cable, then the positive . . . . .
if it run's the alt is fine.

ohhh what's the cca on the battery??
before mine's was like a 400 and the battery was small, but upgraded to a 650 namebrand and it was fine.

[AQcz]

Alt is good and battery is a 650. Made sure to get a good one.

I searched but can't find this info... Where is the starter located? I downloaed the shop manuals from http://www.pauldesign.ru/honda/shopmanual.html and was able to find instructions for removing/reinstalling the starter, but unless I missed something it doesn't say anything about it's location. I also didn't have any luck searching (I found info, just didn't find anything about the location).

Any help as always is appreciated, pic would help a lot if available.

Thanks for the help

[86LXItooFAST4me]

did you check the alt belt yet?

[AQcz]

That was checked when I had the alt replaced a few weeks ago.

I'm about to take the car to autozone in a few mins and just get the starter/alt checked anyway...

Thanks

[86LXItooFAST4me]

do you have to belt tight enuff?

[accordlxi2.0]

the starter is located on the pass side behind the engine, on top of the tranny . . . . .

[AQcz]

Took it to a million autozones/struass. By the time I found one that had the equiptment it was too late so I'm gonna have to take it monday.

I think I found the starter earlier. Lower/maybe a little back but somewhere around where the positive side of the battery is in this picture? http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/6/web/210000-210999/210989_53_full.jpg ?

Says a positive wire from the batt is running to it and that's one of the places mine led to so i'm guessing that's it. If so i'll probably just change it myself if that turns out to be the problem. Only a few screws.

Thanks

[carotman]

did you check the battery ground? a bad ground could cause a loss of starting power.

[Robs89LXi]

Did you have your remote starter/alarm installed after you bought the car? If the car ran fine when you bought it, and the problem is occuring now, after you had the alarm installed, I'd check out that wiring/system real good. Maybe a faulty ground somewhere.

[AQcz]

Just checked the battery ground today. Took battery and whole ground off. Checked + side also.

I put the remote starter in after I got the car, but I remember having that start problem before I put it in so I doubt that's the problem. Either way I will still check.

I tried taking to Strauss again today. Seems the earlier I go the more crowded it is there. Tomorrow I will be there as soon as the doors open.

I checked by this other place that does only alternators/starters. They were crowded, but the guy came and listened to me start it (of course the car choose to start fine so he couldn't hear it), but from me describing it to him he said it sounded like it could be something else or maybe I needed a new fuel filter/ tune up? Gas mileage doesn't seem great...

Whatever I do I'm goin to at least wait until I can get the starter checked.

Don't want to waste money

Thanks

[86LXItooFAST4me]

yes, fuel pump and filter could have a possibility. i had a friend that had there fuel bump go out and the damn car wouldnt even spin over

[AQcz]

I'll look into that too

Did a check on autozone site just now... No real reason just to see what it said. Based off what I enter:

Engine hard to start > When car is hot . It said it could be

1 Inspect AIR CHARGE SENSOR Damaged or faulty air charge sensor or air charge sensor circuit.
2 Inspect AIR CLEANER TEMPERATURE SENSOR Damaged or faulty air cleaner temperature sensor or air cleaner temperature sensor circuit.
3 Inspect BATTERY Insufficient battery voltage/amperage
5 Inspect CARBURETOR FLOAT Improperly adjusted/saturated or damaged carburetor float.
6 Inspect CHOKE PULLOFF Worn, defective, or faulty choke pulloff(s).
7 Inspect CHOKE THERMOSTAT Stuck or improperly functioning choke thermostat.
8 Inspect FUEL FILTER Clogged or dirty fuel filter
9 Inspect FUEL INJECTOR Plugged, dirty or poorly connected fuel injector.
10 Inspect FUEL INJECTOR COLD START VALVE Faulty cold start valve or circuit.
11 Inspect FUEL INJECTOR PRESSURE REGULATOR Faulty fuel injector pressure regulator or circuit.
12 Inspect ROTOR - IGNITION Damaged, worn, or corroded ignition rotor.
13 Inspect THROTTLE POSITION SENSOR Faulty throttle position sensor or throttle position sensor circuit.
14 Inspect VALVE Burned, worn or sticking exhaust valve(s).


The closer it gets toward 14 the less likely that's what the problem is. Anyway was just something to do in the mean time.

[accordlxi2.0]

nope. . . . did ya replace the starter yet??