Air Conditioning not working

[kruddler]

This is my last big hurdle to finally have everything working again. My wife says that I have a full time job working on this thing. Last time I check it runs better than her Jetta with 70k and mine has 270k. I’m no to the point were the only original things on the car is the transmission and engine.

What things am I going to have to do to get the A/C working again? It did not work when I purchased the vehicle 4 years ago. I have the Klien compressor. I would like to put the es12a in because that seems to give you the best bang for the money.

Also how do you tell if your compressor is still working with out actually pressurizing the system?

If I remove the belt from the compressor and turn on the A/C will the cooling fan (that blows on the radiator) turn on? Will it turn on if the belt is on? Does the system have to be pressurized for this fan to come on?

[IN_ONE_ACCORD]

The condensor fan (small one on the dr. side) should come on when you turn on the a/c. If not, your fan motor may need replacing, or a fuse or relay. With car running, turn on the ac switch and your engine should increase rpm for the load....rpm may decrease though, depending on your car. If that happens, more than likely your compressor is kicking in. If it has never worked, my advice is take it to a shop and have them pull vacuum on it to see if it holds....they will be able to tell you if you have a leak or not. If not, just get some r12 off ebay and put it in. I wouldn't use anything but r12 or hot shot. Not sure about reliability or compatibility with other refrigerants. I'd not retrofit to 134a, since our older systems arent designed for the higher pressures....usually blows compressor. You can buy freon/r12 off ebay and do it yourself, just make sure you put it in the low side port (the larger diameter line).

[Vinny]

The fans WILL NOT COME ON if the system is low on freon. The low pressure switch in the system will not allow the fans to come on or the compressor to kick in if the system is low.

You can always jumper the low pressure switch to see if the compressor is going to engage. The switch is by the power steering reservoir just across from the filter/drier.

I'd recommend ordering a new filter/drier and 3 or 4 O ring kits from honda. Pull the entire system out of the car and flush the lines. Don't flush through the compressor, the filter/drier, or the expansion valve. Lube the NEW O rings with dielectric grease and put the system back together. Pull the compressor and drain all the oil out. Service each component with oil per the shop manual. Have a nice long vacuum pulled on it then have it serviced

[Vinny]

If not, just get some r12 off ebay and put it in. I wouldn't use anything but r12 or hot shot. Not sure about reliability or compatibility with other refrigerants. I'd not retrofit to 134a, since our older systems arent designed for the higher pressures....usually blows compressor. You can buy freon/r12 off ebay and do it yourself, just make sure you put it in the low side port (the larger diameter line).

You can't buy R-12 legally unless you are 609 certified. I wouldnt recommend using r-12, as expensive as it is, to try and find a leak. Most refridgeratns are NOT compatable with each other. More inportantly the OILS are NOT compatable. R12 systems use a mineral based oil where as 134A systems use a PAG or esther based "oil" The newer oils have tend to hold and attract moisture more easily that older mineral oils. Hence the inpoartance of FLUSHING the systemm if you change over. Rarely done I know, but the system will blow cooler and last longer when PROPERLY serviced.

AC is too damn expensive to cut corners. the 20 or 40 bucks you save doing a half ass job MAY cost you a 250 buck compressor in a year

[BlueBead]

Wow Vinny, you know tons about these damn things! I have a question for ya; if I take my AC belt off during the winter, will it screw my AC up? do I have to leave the belt on to keep everything working?
Thx Man

[Vinny]

taking it off won't help or harm you either way. Since the compressors not actually running there is little to no parasitic drag off it. The old wives tale on AC in the winter use to be "run it every so often just to help prolong the seals." If thats true or not no one really can give me a definite answer.

And thanks for the compliment. I got REALLY into AC last year when I had AC questions and NO ONE even attempted to answer the thread I posted on here. 4 days with no answers. AC knowledge seems to be a deficiency on alot of sites, not just ours.

[nswst8]

I don't recommend removing the A/C belt in the winter. Reason is that the A/C in conjunction with the heater in winter helps keep the moisture low in the cabin of the vehicle. Our A/C symtems are not the greatest.
Do the conversion to R134a there is only a 4 degree difference in cooling capacity between R12 and R134a
I did the shadetree conversion back in 97 and have had no real problems since, same compressor, same filter, same receiver/dryer and didn't even flush it.
Sorry Vinny didn't see your thread for help when you needed it.
Hope this helps
Phil :cheers:

[Vinny]

It was LONG before you Phil, not a problem. I think the difference is more than 4 degrees though. I have 2 88 accords, one runs on 12 the other on 134. Both have new compressors, new condensors, new expansion valves and filter driers. Both were completely taken apart and flushed, all seals replaced. The 12 system WILL hit the limit switch on the thermostat, which is between 33 and 35 degrees. The sedan with 134A is lucky if its gets down to 45 in the exact same conditions. Of course thats at over 90 degress outside

[RobbyKlotz]

Sorry to whore this post, but how much does it take to fill up our system? I've never done it personally, but I am decent at reading directions if there is a kit with them in it.

[Vinny]

1.88lbs of r12. 134 will depend on who you read info from. Sanden says you use roughly about 5% (by weight) less. Chrysler says 20% less in their service bulletins. Usually using 85-90% is a fair bet. Oh and the difference between cooling is normally a decrease of between 3-15% degrees after 134 conversion.

[RobbyKlotz]

1.88lbs of r12. 134 will depend on who you read info from. Sanden says you use roughly about 5% (by weight) less. Chrysler says 20% less in their service bulletins. Usually using 85-90% is a fair bet. Oh and the difference between cooling is normally a decrease of between 3-15% degrees after 134 conversion.

Whats your take on this kit here?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=46094&item=7904838973&tc=photo

[Vinny]

If you're doing that you might as well just convert to 134a. But thats just my opinion.

[BlueBead]

taking it off won't help or harm you either way. Since the compressors not actually running there is little to no parasitic drag off it. The old wives tale on AC in the winter use to be "run it every so often just to help prolong the seals." If thats true or not no one really can give me a definite answer.

And thanks for the compliment. I got REALLY into AC last year when I had AC questions and NO ONE even attempted to answer the thread I posted on here. 4 days with no answers. AC knowledge seems to be a deficiency on alot of sites, not just ours.

Thanks Vinny, that really helps - now I know better. Next time I have an AC question I'll know whose brain to pick. I think I heard that 'old wives tale' :uh: too, thats why I asked. I'd like to keep the damn thing alive as long as I can.

[Vinny]

Persoanllyu I'd leave it on. Its kinda a pain in the ass to get on and tightened right if you don't have the tensioner and but on the bracket. It won't hurt for it to be on. And as Phil said it helps keep moisture down in the car

[nswst8]

Hey Vinny, yeah I'll give you that R12 gets colder the information seems to very with whom it comes from. Mine comes from a close friend who works for Detroit big trucks so that my source. Its always good to have a quick source for info when you need it.
But the cost for having an R12 system serviced is expensive to say the least.
Where as a R134a system requires no certification to convert or service.
Thats the deciding factor for conversions.
As for cooling efficiency I lived in Jax, Fl which as you know get Humid as Hell for which the R134a will suffice.
I could reach 40-44 on average from the center vent on a 98 degree day.
The books tell you to replace practically everything if it been a good bit of time since the last servicing 2-5years.
But remember we are shadetreee, DIYer of today usually we don't have a whole lot of cash either.
Hope this helps.
Phil :cheers:

[88accordlxcarb]

Remember that 134a can be a bitch for these old compressors. It is harder to compress, thus causing strain on the compressors. Like in my HOW TO( http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=19188 ), i support Es-12A, i've put it in 2 cars, and it works great(not as good as r12, but better than 134). With R12, if you can get your hands on it, its costs so much its just not worth it. If you are doing your AC yourself, and just keeping R12, and you mess up thats like 50 bucks down the drain for a can, with a new coolant its nice 3-4 bucks a can.

BTW, your compressor will not handle 134a. It will do ok with es-12a, but you wont get max cooling with that type of compressor. WIth oils, you can use an "ester" oil that is compatable with r12 and 134.

Jason

[ag bullet]

Vinny here is one for you then. SInce you have helped me in the other thread. My problem is (and I need to verify it again). The compressor will not come on. It actually trips the fuse for the rear window defroster.

The previous owners did perform a conversion to the r134 and flushed everything.

Any advice you have here would be awesome given the fact that the 90 degree temps seem to be here to stay.

[accordlxi2.0]

there's a short.
i think the a/c comp. and rear defrost share the same fuse i forget. check aroud the compressor relay. or the compressor itself ,some wire's may be lose and touching ground . . . .
and to kruddler if i was you i would first go to a j/y and get a denso compressor.
i heard the khien can't handle r134a.
plus when i converted the lx to r134 it was fine.

[offthahook]

Vinny is a smart mofo about the AC!! Here's my saga... I bought my Accord and the AC hadn't worked or even been used for YEARS. SO, I sucked it up and took it to a place that ONLY does AC and heaters. That's it. He said the condensor was bad (that was all) and replaced it. He vacuumed it for like 6 hours to get all the crap out and replaced the receiver/dryer like you're sposa. He uses a coolant called FR 12. It's a hybrid that's not so 134, but not R12 either. Then, the damn thing won't increase idle when the AC is switched on! Troubleshooting that took FOREVER. Turns out someone had put a ECM in that was slightly diff. than the proper one. The car ran, but the AC made it die and idle rough. SO, we got a used RIGHT ECM and the rest is history. My AC is strong and everything was salvageable, even though it had been so neglected. These people know their AC. I learned, too, because I wasn't getting help in forums. The AC shop is VERY important. They either know their crap or they don't!

[rleyba]

I have a 1988 Accord. Last summer I went to get the A/C filled, when we powered it on, no cold air. The shop didn't realize that there wasn't a belt on the a/c compressor. My question is, how hard is it to install one and where do I get one from. What tips can you give me in installing it as far as accessing it easlily. Oh yeah, how would I know if the compressor is still good, or do I have to wait and install the belt, then get it filled, then test it. This is my first year of wanting to use the a/c on this car. Thanks !

[Vinny]

How hard is it to change the belt for the compressor? Not very hard at all, but it may take some patience. Best way to do it is from under the car, atleast it is for me since the tensioner nut is on the bottom bolt of the compressor. You'll have to take your power steering belt off first in order to put the AC belt on. The belt you can pick up pretty much anywhere.....Advance auto, autozone, whatever.