too much ATF causing slipping?

[Vanilla Sky]

well, on my way back for SC, my tranny started slipping... i assumed it was my torque converter dying, but i'm just not too sure on that... anyways, today i go out and run my car and what-not and warm the transmission up and check it... too much fluid... not by a lot, but too much any way you cut it...

another thing, is i'm using generic ATF, as i've not had a chance to get down to the honda dealer for honda ATF... could this also cause the slipping? i plan on changing to honda ATF ASAP, and putting an additive of some sort in there to aid in things...

what kind of additive dou you guys suggest? i'm assuming lucas, as everybody that's used it has had great things to say about it. even i have used several lucas products and they just seem great, and pretty much live up to thier name...

so what i plan on doing is changing ATF and adding in some lucas or what-not... do you guys think this could solve my slipping problem?

[A20A1]

Too much fluid could cause you to spring a leak... I dunno how generic your atf is... I use Mobil1 and B&M trick shift mix.... but then I also have 2 oil coolers, one with a fan assist.

[Vanilla Sky]

i'm stock and i'm using coastal ATF cause it was cheap... and available...

[zero.counter]

Lucas ATF fluid is a very good auto tranny additive. I would suggest flushing first though...

[Vinny]

I wouldnt flush it, that make take whatever is holding to together out. Drain some, then add lucas. Flushing older trannies with lots of miles is BAD

[zero.counter]

I wouldnt flush it, that make take whatever is holding to together out. Drain some, then add lucas. Flushing older trannies with lots of miles is BAD
So bandaging a possibly severe problem is better? There is a right way and a wrong way. If you fear that possible outcome, then perhaps it would be even better to have the tranny serviced by a transmission shop of sorts. Besides, based on his description of problems, it sounds like something will need to be replaced sometime in the near future anyways...

[A20A1]

you mean the metal shavings?

[zero.counter]

you mean the metal shavings?
HahAHAHA...


Hey Mike, who is that chick in your avatar? I have been meaning to ask you since first seeing it...

[Vinny]

OK heres the deal. His trannys old, probably neglected and on the verge of failure. We all know Derrik can't afford to get the tranny rebuilt. There is only bandaid fixes for people who can't afford "proper" repair and regular maintenance. zero I'm not telling anyone anything, just offering advice, What he does with it is his business.

I will tell you from MY experience rebuilding AUTO trannies for everything from imports, domestics, and Strip use setups that over time all trannys wear. The fine metal particles from the worn clutches and internals actually aid in keeping the clutchs and such working. By flushing all the worn particles out there is less material for the worn clutches in an auto tranny to grab to. I spent 2 summers working for a friend who owned a shop that specializes in nothing but transmissions. Most places who do tranny servicing make you sign a waiver if your vehicle has over a certain mileage. This is also why most high mileage transmissions fail for "no apparent reason" 6 months to a year after being serviced/flushed.

[zero.counter]

OK heres the deal. His trannys old, probably neglected and on the verge of failure. We all know Derrik can't afford to get the tranny rebuilt. There is only bandaid fixes for people who can't afford "proper" repair and regular maintenance. zero I'm not telling anyone anything, just offering advice, What he does with it is his business.

I will tell you from MY experience rebuilding AUTO trannies for everything from imports, domestics, and Strip use setups that over time all trannys wear. The fine metal particles from the worn clutches and internals actually aid in keeping the clutchs and such working. By flushing all the worn particles out there is less material for the worn clutches in an auto tranny to grab to. I spent 2 summers working for a friend who owned a shop that specializes in nothing but transmissions. Most places who do tranny servicing make you sign a waiver if your vehicle has over a certain mileage. This is also why most high mileage transmissions fail for "no apparent reason" 6 months to a year after being serviced/flushed.
Please do not preach to the choir. Radiators are a perfect analogy for the transmission woes both of us have encountered, but I will spare everyone my experience as it is unnecessary.

Had you read my response where I stated, "Besides, based on his description of problems, it sounds like something will need to be replaced sometime in the near future anyways...", you would understand that it is inevitable (which you obviously do judging by your response), that failure is iminent. Suggesting that he start looking for a good used tranny was my overall point, unless you disagree, then we are on the same page. If you are strapped for cash, the tranny could care less and will break down anyways. Be prepared...

You are right, we are offering mere suggestions in his endeavor at correcting a possible major problem. Planetary gears shooting out the side of a belhousing is not something everyone should experience, as it is a likely worst case scenario.

[Vanilla Sky]

yeah, i need it replaced SOON, no matter how i look at it... but i just flushed it recently, when i replaced my CV axle... that was right before i left for SC... could that be my problem? the tranny fluid that came out was BLACK...

[zero.counter]

the tranny fluid that came out was BLACK...
Oh yeah, that is a problem. The fluid drops might reflect a deteriorating transmission seal (around a spinning shaft) or gasket (fills a gap between two fixed metal surfaces) and if it has a strong odor like rotten eggs or burned electrical parts, there is definitely a problem for sure!

On another note, if the fluid is light brown, red, or pink in color it is still in good condition.

[Vanilla Sky]

eh, it smelled about the same as what was going back in... it was just black... the transmission is only supposed to have like 25,000 miles on it... looks too dirty for that, though

[SimonT]

Siphon out a bit of the new ATF fluid and smell it. It may still appear cherry red but if it smelles Burned then your Transmission is probably overheating, if not its a mechanical problem.
Remember not to screw in the dipstick when checking for the correct ATF levels and do it on a flat surface when the engine is warm ( so it can burn your friggin arm, thanks Honda)

I would say from my experience "always" use Honda ATF and skip the additives unless you have a leak or are using some other generic ATF.

I had been changing ATF at the quick oil places and had harsh clunky shifting from 60k to 160K, then my dad told me to put some ATF modifer in and that helped a bit but nothing like as good as the 100% Honda ATF flush at the Dealer turned out to be.

Having the Honda Dealer Flush my Transmission at 170K after it seriously overheated (slipped to the point it was not running in the Desert several times) was the best $100 I ever spent. Everyone told me my tranny was toast at that point but another 30K on the transmission since then, and it still behaves like it is brand new smooth as silk so of course I now "only" use Honda ATF.

If you dont want to flush again then just buy 9 quarts of honda ATF for $45 and drain and fill it three times. That will get you an 87.5% fluid change which should be good enough. If you don't have $45, then do a double drain at least, for $30 in fluid it will change 75%. It makes a big difference over just changing 50% of your fluid.

Do you have the original Radiator or one of those all Metal Replacements???

My Tranny overheating problems started when my Dad put in an all metal generic Radiator in the Car thinking he was doing me a favor for my trip to the Desert.

Well I think the generic Radiator I have is not designed well enough to cool the Transmission when your cruising in really hot weather like Arizona or Florida especially with the A/C on.

When I do my engine swap I'm going back to a honda OEM version for sure.

Best of luck,

Simon

[A20A1]

Hey Mike, who is that chick in your avatar? I have been meaning to ask you since first seeing it...

:D I dunno...

[A20A1]

Here is a test
try keeping the button on the shifter depressed and then move it to where D4 should be and then try rocking the shifter between N and D3 to see if it catches... if not then it's probably some internal seal problam and not a shifter cable problem...

[zero.counter]

:D I dunno...
Your chick? She plucks her eyebrows like my wife, I always thought that was a little painful. Anywho...

[A20A1]

Oh you have to be driving while switching between gear selections and not just coasting.

[accordlxi2.0]

that lucas stuff will work, i'll say drain 1/2 and add some lucas stuff, my friend ford t-bird tranny was going so i had some left and put that in and it was fine till 2 month's later.

plus i use valvoline hi-mile tranny fluid or penzoil. . . . .

[Vanilla Sky]

hmm... it doesn't seem to be a shifter cable problem.... i think i'll just change out transmissions... i'll just use my old auto from the old accord until i can afford the swap

[AccordEpicenter]

yeah if the tranny oil is black or seriously messed up/burnt then serious tranny damage is usually evident... the cooler autos run the longer they live, period. Change your atf in these cars regularly at LEAST ever 30kmi, draining and filling it only dumps about 2.5 qts at a time and i think there is at least 7 or 8 qts in the entire tranny so youre just diluting it out anyway. Metal shavings are generally not a big issue in these trannies, there is a strong magnet in the atf that collects the shavings... as well as a magnetic drain plug. I thrashed my auto and it lasted to 120k miles being very rough on it, but with regular atf changes with honda fluid it shifted perfectly up until i blew a clutch pack racing, i think i brake torqued the launch a little hard that day (brake, gas pedal to the floor)

[Vanilla Sky]

well, i drained and refilled again (still with generic, as i had it on hand) before i went to get the honda ATF i have sitting... well, i went out and ABUSED the car, and it's shifting right, no slipping

BTW, the manual says the capacity of the auto tranny is 3.2 quarts, and that's what i put back in when i refill it, and it puts is to within what honda calls correct

[Vanilla Sky]

hmmm, after 90ish miles of driving, it's back to slipping... it only does it when it's hot... i'm gonna put me a cooler in and know for fuckin sure if it's the heat or not... if it's not, i'll have a cooler for my next transmission

[Vanilla Sky]

come to think about it, the manual tranny doesn't have a cooler, does it? can one be hooked up to it without having to tap anything?

[accordlxi2.0]

nope i don't think so.
at first i did'nt think any 3g came w/ a cooler.
then i seen the line's(auto), but i thought it was the one that's at the bottom of the radiator.

[A20A1]

How does manual trans oil circulate? You might have to add an electric pump just to circulate whats at the bottom of the trans and cool that.

The auto does use a line at the bottom of the radiator.

[Vanilla Sky]

piff, you call that a cooler

[yup, i know you say the same, as you have 2 B&M coolers]

[Raduque]

Manual transmissions don't usually have coolers. And the 3G doesn't have one, and there's no fittings on the trans to add one either. Manual gear oil(and 10w30 in our cars) just sits there and gets stirred around by the gears.

But if I recall correctly, automatics use fluidic pressure to engage the clutches... therefore, auto fluid is already being pumped, and it's easy enough to just re-route that pressure to an external cooler and back into the trans. That is, if the trans is designed to be used with a cooler. =)