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Xtracktor
07-08-2004, 02:12 AM
Hello, first off I would like to say this is one of the most attentive helping communities that I have ever come accross of over the internet. I have an 1988 LX-I Coupe. Got it as a present from my aunt, at 160K miles and being bought in FL (I live in Los Angeles) I try to go easy on her. Recently one of my highbeams on the Sylvania h6054's went out. So I decided to get a diamond cut housing with a set of H4's. I installed them and wow, I really liked their glow. Now the fun starts :sad2: , just recently while driving with my H4's on and my radio, I hit the brake to stop at a stop light, and my gauge cluster lamp dimmed along with my radio turning off, then back on later. I thought nothing at first, but it started to get really bad when the radio kept on reseting as I hit the brake. A temporary fix was reving up my engine, then continuing to drive. Either it was the alternator or the battery that was failing, but to what? So then today I was filling up gas, then when I got back in my car, it would not start...I put it neutral, moved it back a bit, then tried again and worked. Frustrated I was determined to get more info on this matter. I read my H4 wattage, it was at 85/115. Then when I went to the sylvania site and the h6054 are rated at 35 watts. Is it just me, or am I overpowering my alternator and/or battery? I've seen people with subwoofers and amps with no problems on a 3rd gen accord. Any light in this case? Thanks alot in advance, I love this car! :bow:

shepherd79
07-08-2004, 02:45 AM
there are could be two things:
1. your light bulbs are too big and you are pulling the high current, but on the other hand i have 80/100 bulbs in my car and it is fine.
2. most likely it is your alternator. take it to autozone and they will test it for you. while you there test the battery too.

Xtracktor
07-08-2004, 03:21 AM
there are could be two things:
i have 80/100 bulbs in my car and it is fine.


Thanks for the reply :), I am assuming you also have a stock alternator?

smufguy
07-08-2004, 07:02 AM
If you have a volt meter, then u should be able to check the strength of ur alternator right in ur home. Start the car up, let it come up to the normal idling. then check the voltage on the battery terminal it should be anywhere from 14 V to 14.5V for a good alternator. check how much volts ur putting out at no load. and then turn on the headlight and radio (and see how much u are putting out) and then ask someone to hit the brakes and see how much ur putting out. IF it goes below 12.5V or let alone 12V then possibly the alt is going out.

When i took my car to the autozone, thats all they did, check the voltage and said it was fine, but again, i got a 4g alternator for the hell of it cause i did not trust my good old junkyard alternator. never had a problem since. 14.5V to 14.7V under no load and its all good.

Xtracktor
07-08-2004, 03:14 PM
So if my alternator does not work, would you recommend getting a 4G alternator?

shepherd79
07-08-2004, 05:45 PM
i would just stay with 3G one. if you get 4g alternator you have to buy new belt and do some modifications.

smufguy
07-08-2004, 06:55 PM
I got the belt number and its just basically plug and play. The top bracket is the only issue, but with the top bolt gone, u can just hammer the bracket to meet the top of the alternator bolt hole and stick a steel or heavy duty bolt and bolt the alternator down. Simple as that, should take u the same time it takes to put in a 3g alternator. Besides u get 80 amps instead of the stock 65 amps and its only 10 bux more from autozone.

Xtracktor
07-09-2004, 12:20 AM
I got the belt number and its just basically plug and play. The top bracket is the only issue, but with the top bolt gone, u can just hammer the bracket to meet the top of the alternator bolt hole and stick a steel or heavy duty bolt and bolt the alternator down. Simple as that, should take u the same time it takes to put in a 3g alternator. Besides u get 80 amps instead of the stock 65 amps and its only 10 bux more from autozone.

What if I get a custom alternator that fits the 3g and has more amperage? My mechanic says he might be able to pull that off because he knows an alternator rebuilder.

Well I took my car to autozone, but some guy had the worker checking his whole engine, I called up my mechanic and just went to him. We checked my alternator and battery with the voltmeter. Without anything except the engine it was 14.7 volts, but with the everything on, it would be at around 14.4. I would push the break and push the power windows, and it would make drops to about 13.1 volts or so. He tells me that my alternator is struggling to meet up with demands and that my battery (kragen) is not good. He also said that the volts should go up, usually. He also said that there might possibly be a short somewhere? I plan to replace my battery with a better one, the one I have is somehwhat small, and I plan to replace the alternator. Any suggestions or comments? Thanks! :rofl:

shepherd79
07-09-2004, 03:18 AM
you mechanic is damn wick. the voltage should always drop when you apply the load. stop using that mechanic. i wouldn't trust him if it was life or death situation.
anyway, sounds like everything is fine. but i twould still go to autozone. and i still think it is eather your battery or your alternator.

DeathRat
07-09-2004, 05:05 AM
I'm running 55/100W H4's in my 88 LX......My alternator is just about shot now, as it can't keep up at all now! At first my light on the dash would just flicker once the H4's were on for over an hour. Yesterday, the light started flickering regardless of the lights were on, off or any other accessory was on as well. I'm getting a custom built 120A alternator installed by a rebuilder that makes HO Alts for stereo installations. They said the brackets would have to be custom made, no big deal, except for the fact that they need the car the whole day to accomplish this install though.

Another thing you should do is upgrade your wiring harness for the lights. If I'm not mistaken, the stock wiring harness is rated for 55W to the headlight switch. I had gotten a suggestion in another thread regarding this topic of upgrading the ground cables for the vehicle. I'm planning to upgrade the ground cables too, just for extra insurance.

smufguy
07-09-2004, 05:22 AM
you can get ur stock alternator rewound to whatever amperage you want. MeanGreen alternators make an aftermarket high amp one (Talk to Bloodlust (Mike) he has one) that costs an upwards of 300 bux just for the part.

Whats obvious is that the powerful lights upon longer duration seem to over work the circuit and seems like they just cant keep up. The alternator might be a culprit too. But if u checked it with the voltmeter, then it soundslike its good. The battery on the other hand might be on its way. At autozone they test the battery to see if it holds the charge. They need some details about ur battery first, like its NCA and CCA, normal cranking amps and cold cranking amps. So do know about it before u go. and ur engine details and what u got in ur car.

If the problem persists even after fixing either the ALT or the BATT, run custom gauge wires, gauges that can hold up to the new power of the lights from and to the lights. What DeathRat mentioned is excellent :)

shepherd79
07-09-2004, 04:22 PM
you don't need to upgrade your headlight wire harness. i had mine lights 80/100 on both accords and i never had any problems.
if you have electrical problems with your car, you need to check your alternator or your dead battery.

nswst8
07-09-2004, 05:59 PM
It would make sense to replace the battery, remember that you must have at least 1/2 volt more than the object that you are charging. So if your Alt is good and putting the 14.5 out then under load your not dropping below 13 volts then I would expect the weak link is the battery.
What is the age of the battery, condition and then cables any oxidation last time you cleaned the terminals.
How often do you drive the car and is it driven for extended periods if the battery plates corrode and the elements of the battery settle to the bottom of the battery then the battery begins to hold less of a charge and fades faster.
Get a good Optima, Duralast, Diehard, Exide.
Hope this helps.
Phil :cheers:

Xtracktor
07-09-2004, 11:50 PM
It would make sense to replace the battery, remember that you must have at least 1/2 volt more than the object that you are charging. So if your Alt is good and putting the 14.5 out then under load your not dropping below 13 volts then I would expect the weak link is the battery.
What is the age of the battery, condition and then cables any oxidation last time you cleaned the terminals.
How often do you drive the car and is it driven for extended periods if the battery plates corrode and the elements of the battery settle to the bottom of the battery then the battery begins to hold less of a charge and fades faster.
Get a good Optima, Duralast, Diehard, Exide.
Hope this helps.
Phil :cheers:

Well Thanks alot for all the info and help, my battery is a kragen battery, looks somewhat small, manufactured june 2003 and I do drive ALOT. The problem just started when I installed my H4's. With the radio off I experience no starting problems, but the gauge cluster light still dims with a push on the break or the power windows.

Last night I was looking around for faulty alternator symtoms, came across various weird things. On a range rover site, they said when the tachometer starts going krazy is the when the "stage 2" of the alternator is failing. My tachometer sometimes shows 0 rpm, sometimes just jumps, usually between 2000 rpm and zero. Not sure if this is the same in the hondas, but wonder what it means.

HostileJava
07-10-2004, 08:57 AM
you don't need to upgrade your headlight wire harness. i had mine lights 80/100 on both accords and i never had any problems.
if you have electrical problems with your car, you need to check your alternator or your dead battery.

That's not true, I wiring harness that is rated for 55watts will cause more resistance then one that is rated at 100watts or whavever. The more resistance the more currect the circuit must draw to provide the proper voltage. The extra power it draws because of this resistance can be seen as heat disipating from the harness.

HondaBoy
07-10-2004, 10:11 AM
i'd say thats probley a no on over powering the alternator with your lights. it wouldnt be just that. i mean i can have my headlights on, the 100 watt fog lights on, my subs bumpin and no problems with my system having low power. i did have to replace my old battery, that made a hell of a difference. if your worried about the alternator, start the car and disconnect the + battery cable. your car should die if its a bad alternator, if it stays on, then you battery is probley in need of replacement.

DeathRat
07-10-2004, 05:51 PM
i'd say thats probley a no on over powering the alternator with your lights. it wouldnt be just that. i mean i can have my headlights on, the 100 watt fog lights on, my subs bumpin and no problems with my system having low power. i did have to replace my old battery, that made a hell of a difference. if your worried about the alternator, start the car and disconnect the + battery cable. your car should die if its a bad alternator, if it stays on, then you battery is probley in need of replacement.
I would have to disagree with you.
My system is running H4's. No big stereo system.
My battery is fine & tested ok.
My Alternator starts off at 14.75 volts & then drops down to 7.50 volts at times. All this started AFTER I installed the H4's too. It is my belief that my H4's have slowly overworked the alternator & now the Alternator is slowly dying.

shepherd79
07-10-2004, 06:06 PM
damn, guys, i never had this kind of power. on the other hand i never used cheap light bulbs. the ones i have now i paid $80 and they are rated at 60/55watts but the light output is 125/120watt.
http://store.racinglab.com/raywhitsonh4.html
i guess i am right, you ge what you pay for.

smufguy
07-10-2004, 08:51 PM
damn alex, do they actually light up the road like that?? shit if thats the case, then pretty soon i might be getting it too and thats with the H4 projector conversion :) now that would be hot, dont u think so?

Xtracktor
07-10-2004, 11:21 PM
i'd say thats probley a no on over powering the alternator with your lights. it wouldnt be just that. i mean i can have my headlights on, the 100 watt fog lights on, my subs bumpin and no problems with my system having low power. i did have to replace my old battery, that made a hell of a difference. if your worried about the alternator, start the car and disconnect the + battery cable. your car should die if its a bad alternator, if it stays on, then you battery is probley in need of replacement.

Wow I like that, I'll probably change the battery then, just to be sure. Still though, if the H4's are on, I can touch anything thats Power in my car and the gauge cluster lights will dim. I will run that test tomorrow in my car, so if the alternator is faulty, it will make the car drop dead. Also, any info on my dying tach? Nothing to do with this whole situation? Thanks again you guys.

HondaBoy
07-11-2004, 12:02 AM
i'd also say you could have other electrical problems. since you first said the dash lights dim, now you've said the tach is dying? i once had a problem with my turn signal lever switch thing. it had burned up wires in it somehow. replaced that and no problems. do you notice this only when you have the headlights on or always even when no headlights are on?

Xtracktor
07-11-2004, 12:17 AM
i'd also say you could have other electrical problems. since you first said the dash lights dim, now you've said the tach is dying? i once had a problem with my turn signal lever switch thing. it had burned up wires in it somehow. replaced that and no problems. do you notice this only when you have the headlights on or always even when no headlights are on?

Oh the tach has always been this way...just out of no where drops to zero. Tomorrow I am try and check as much of the electrical system as I can, see if I can find a short or something.

shepherd79
07-11-2004, 04:33 AM
yes, what you see on those picture that is exactly how they look on the road. they light up the road better than any other light bulbs i had, and i had a dozen of pairs. you name it i had it.

DeathRat
07-11-2004, 07:50 AM
i'd also say you could have other electrical problems. since you first said the dash lights dim, now you've said the tach is dying? i once had a problem with my turn signal lever switch thing. it had burned up wires in it somehow. replaced that and no problems. do you notice this only when you have the headlights on or always even when no headlights are on?
I don't have ANY of these problems with my system......So therefore, I do agree with Hondaboy that "OTHER" electrical problems are probably present as well!

Not sure how "Electrical" savy you are.....But see if you can get the readings off the fuse panel itself to see how much current each circuit is pulling? Another thing you can do is have someone turn on/off components, while you check readings at the battery.

HondaBoy
07-11-2004, 03:58 PM
hey Shep, have you had GE super blue bulbs? thats what i'm runnin. i'll probley go to a single filament bulb. i never need a high beam anyway, i notice.

shepherd79
07-11-2004, 04:00 PM
yes i had GE super blue. they are just a little brighter than stock lights. they don't even come close to what i have now.

Xtracktor
07-11-2004, 06:06 PM
Ok I ran some tests, I tried this, unplugged the negative cable from the negative terminal from the battery and put a voltmeter between the negative terminal and the negative cable. I got the reading 12.8 volts when the car is shut off. Is that supposed to be that way...sounds like a short circuit in the car somewhere. :sad2:

DeathRat
07-11-2004, 06:32 PM
Ok I ran some tests, I tried this, unplugged the negative cable from the negative terminal from the battery and put a voltmeter between the two. I got the reading 12.8 volts when the car is shut off. Is that supposed to be that way...sounds like a short circuit in the car somewhere. :sad2:
That is correct, it is supposed to be that way....you're closing the circuit with the voltmeter, so the 12.8 volts is what the system has at rest.

What are the readings from the voltmeter when the alternator is running? How about when everything is on?

Xtracktor
07-11-2004, 07:32 PM
That is correct, it is supposed to be that way....you're closing the circuit with the voltmeter, so the 12.8 volts is what the system has at rest.

What are the readings from the voltmeter when the alternator is running? How about when everything is on?

Really, even if the car is off, there is still supposed to be a voltage difference in the ground and the negative?

DeathRat
07-11-2004, 08:10 PM
Really, even if the car is off, there is still supposed to be a voltage difference in the ground and the negative?
Yes! The battery HOLDS a 12 Volt charge! If it didn't, then the car wouldn't start as the battery would be classified as DEAD!

Xtracktor
07-11-2004, 08:31 PM
Yes! The battery HOLDS a 12 Volt charge! If it didn't, then the car wouldn't start as the battery would be classified as DEAD!

Hehe, yea, I know that the battery has a potential difference of 12V. Not sure if you understand what I am saying, but I just wanted to verify that there is a potential difference between the ground cable (black cable) and the negative terminal when the car is off. In the Haynes manual that I have it says that if a test light turns on between the negative terminal and cable lights up when the car is off, you have a short. Also, when I put the negative cable back on...it sparks, again while the car is off.

DeathRat
07-12-2004, 06:01 AM
Hehe, yea, I know that the battery has a potential difference of 12V. Not sure if you understand what I am saying, but I just wanted to verify that there is a potential difference between the ground cable (black cable) and the negative terminal when the car is off. In the Haynes manual that I have it says that if a test light turns on between the negative terminal and cable lights up when the car is off, you have a short. Also, when I put the negative cable back on...it sparks, again while the car is off.
Ok, I see what you're saying now. It shouldn't spark at all! I know that forsure!

lilhonda17
05-16-2005, 12:13 AM
funny i installed my h4's and my dash would flicker, dim and brightn up at various times as soon as i put my stoc lights back in everything was perfect.... i believe it is the cheap bulbs.

w261w261
05-16-2005, 06:42 AM
I have a few cars, and therefore I might not be right on this, but I believe the 86-89 Accords do not have relays in the headlight circuits (a relay allows a low-power circuit to actuate a switch which then turns on or off a high-power circuit). So in our cars, the current that powers the headlights goes through several components before it gets to the lights themselves. One of these is the headlight switch, others are the various connectors along the way, including the connectors at the lights. Before the pressure to finely tune specifications and engineer-out "wasted value" became so intense, designers left in a goodly amount of "slop" or "overdesign," and so it was generally possible to stress components beyond their original specifications and get away with it. Not so much any longer. Now, when Honda bids out a connector (or a headlight switch) to several potential suppliers, and says it has to handle 55 watts, that switch is going to be designed for 55 watts, not 65 or 85 as in the old days. The pressure to cut costs is just so intense. I found this out in a '94 Audi, where, having checked the gauge of the wiring (ok), went ahead with uprated headlight bulbs and promptly melted the connectors. In my Se-i, I did install higher-wattage Piaa's, and replaced the connectors with heavier-duty units. I checked the wiring gauge (ok again), and the circuit breaker capacity. I toyed with the idea of putting in separate headlight circuits, with relays controlled by the original light circuits, but thought that with my mods, plus the new bulbs weren't that much over (65w-80 maybe), I would be ok. And I was, for a few months, until the dimmer/headlight switch that I had been slowly cooking failed. That puppy is about $180 to buy and another $100+ to have installed. Not to mention the safety issue of having a component like that go away on a dark night on the highway.

Moral of my story, and my advice to anyone contemplating installing a larger set of headlight bulbs (or other lights): *always* put them on a separate, fused, adequately-sized independent circuit, using the original circuit to control the relay which will turn them on. It's the only way. Otherwise, you may be slowly cooking a component, which will announce it's failure just when you need it.