More starting trouble

[89LxiAg]

After replacing my main relay not too long ago (brand new from Majestic) a new problem pops up (old problem was trouble starting, but fixed with main relay). Now, whenever I try to start the car it tries to start but in spurts. Almost like the battery is dead (car sounds like this: rrr____rrr____rrr____). If I turn the key on and let it sit after the PGM light goes off and a few seconds more then try to crank it, then it will usually fire up like it should. I know the battery is still good, but I can't imagine any other thing to check.

My next guess is to replace my injectors (one is a little leaky, but not much) with clean ones from RC Eng. and to replace my plugs. I was hoping someone could give me some insight into some other things to check. Thanks.

P.S. I want this fixed before I buy a new compressor for my AC. If I can't get it fixed I may buy a new ride.

EDIT: I just saw some guys recommend a new fuel filter, I did that already. The other option would be the coolant temperature sensor. I'd like some input on this sensor. Where is it (pics)? Anyone else solve their problem with this? Thanks.

[shepherd79]

are you getting any ERROR codes from ECU?

[HostileJava]

Well I guess it's either a fuel or a spark issue. Because it starts after letting it sit for a bit that kinda makes me think it may be fuel related. What happens if you turn it to the on position but don't crank it, wait for the fuel relay to click off and do it again just to make sure there is pressure and fuel at the injectors then try to start it.

[Vinny]

If it turns over slowly it can really only be a few things. Either a battery, which could possibly have a bad cell or a starter dragging. Timing or poorly adjusted valves could cause it to crank oddly but I'd look into having the battery load tested and/or the starter as well. It may be the initial load on the battery causing it to drag down the battery

[HostileJava]

Whoops sorry, didn't really read that all the way, about the slow turning over, I had the same problem and it ended up being two things a alternator going out and a batter going out, probably cause of the alternator.

[Xtracktor]

Woah, funny, I was just going to post the same problem, I had my filter and fuel pump replaced, supposebly that was the problem in mine. But today, in the middle of a busy cheveron, it did it again! :mad: . I noticed, by accident I had left it in Drive when I turned off my car, I tried to turn back on, nothing happened, woops left the car in drive. Now, put it back and park, now -R-R-R-R-R.....for like 10 mins, I got desperate, line forming behind me. Put it in neutral, pushed it a bit and started up. Ok, last time, We checked the battery, and the plugs, 14.6v no load, plugs firing when ignition is on, ugh, got fuel filter and fuel pump replaced. Now, still doing this...I know there is a leak between the transmission and the engine block of engine oil, I dont know if that can affect anything...hope some of this helps for the thread starter to see if our problems are similar. Thanks again guys!

PS: I came home, tried putting it in drive, turning it off...turned on, put it in park, worked perfect everytime...ugh! :dunno:

[HostileJava]

I know there is a leak between the transmission and the engine block of engine oil, I dont know if that can affect anything...:

I can tell you it's not coming from betweent he tranny and the engine, there is no shared oil and between the two all you have is the torque converter with no liquid involved. So that leak is coming from somewhere else.

[89LxiAg]

Here's what I found out yesterday and this morning:

shepherd79: No codes whatsoever, turned the car on then off again, still no codes.

HostileJava: If I let the car sit after I turn the key as you suggested it seems to work better. I tried that yesterday but it always cranked on the first try. This morning I tried it (~75 degrees outside) and it did NOT start right up. Seems intermittent. Also, yesterday your method worked sometimes, but around noon when it's 100+ outside I get no start until three or four tries later.

Vinny: I'm thinking of having my battery, starter, and alternator all load tested soon. The alternator is from NAPA about 4 years old. The battery is less than a year old (Diehard Weatherhandler) and the starter is original. Timing and valve clearances were all checked and adjusted within the last two months. But it only turns over slowly on the first crank or so. After it sits for a bit, the crank that it starts on is clean and quick. :dunno:

Xtracktor: Sounds similar, but I have a 5spd. And when my car won't start, I can usually turn the key off then back on, let it sit for a sec, then crank it up. Rarely has it taken more than two tries to start it.

Lastly, the funny thing about it was what happened today. Thinking about a bad battery, etc. I tried what HostileJava suggested. I pulled up to work and turned the car off. Then I immediately tried to restart it. It had a little trouble but turned over on the first try. Then I wanted to look for codes so I turned the car off and started looking. Seeing no codes I thought I would try to start again(~ 5 minutes later). This time it didn't crank on the first try. So I turned the key on, let it sit till the PGM light goes out, turn the key off, turn the key on, let it sit again, then crank. It fired up like a champ.

If the start sounds sluggish one time and quick and clean the next time (as it did this morning), do you think the battery could still be bad? What about the rest of the components? I'm still wondering about that coolant temperature sensor. Thanks for the input guys, keep it coming and sorry for the length here!

[HostileJava]

In general the Coolant tempature sensor will keep it from starting but it should still turnover fine(not sluggish). If it's extremely sluggish turning over and then finally catches in my experience thats the batt/alternator. Unfortionatelyi I've had both happen to me. Also with my batt alternator problem the starting problem was kinda random, some times it would start right up other times it would slowly turn over and then finally catch.

[mag_pbg]

Im having almost the same prob. In the mornings it will start fine but if i drive it somewhere and then try and start it, it just cranks and cranks with the rpms going everywhere. The alternator is only maybe a year old same as the battery and starter. To me it sounds heat related, becuase the more hot the motor gets the harder it is to start.

[89LxiAg]

Just to clarify the problem better:

When I try to start the car and it doesn't fire right off, it will sound sluggish but not start no matter how long I crank it. When I let it sit and stuff as I mentioned earlier, and try to crank it again, it cranks normally (not sluggish at all) and starts right up.

Related: I noticed the other day on my cheap voltmeter (not digital) that the battery voltage with the car off was under 12 volts, and while running it was at about 12 volts or a little over. I put some water into the cells hoping this would bring up the voltage, but I haven't checked it again. I'll look into this and see what I find out. Keep those ideas coming guys!

MAG_PBG: Have you checked for engine codes and changed your main relay. These two things should be tried first. Search for other posts abou the main relay if you haven't already. Good luck!

[89LxiAg]

For those who may have had a similar problem, I found the cause in my car. After cleaning some of the sub-frame near the battery and tranny (battery removed during cleaning), I noticed that the negative battery cable that normally grounds to the tranny case was really loose. After disconnecting it and cleaning the contact surfaces, I put it back onto the tranny and tightened the screw to hold it. Now the car starts fine every time I turn the key.

It seems that when I had my cluth replaced, the mechanic didn't put everything back the way it should have been. I hope this helps someone else.

[89LxiAg]

Everyone,

After re-tightening the ground on my transmission, the starting problem came back. In the midst of me replacing my A/C system, I just hadn't had time to mess with it. Finally, I got ahold of a nice digital multimeter and decided to test my TW sensor (ECT sensor) to see if it goes "cold" as other posts have mentioned. My repair manual had an excellent troubleshooting chart that said the following (for those needing to test theirs too.):
1) Look for code 6 on ECU.
2) Whether you have the code or not, start the car and warm it up to normal temperature (fan comes on at least once)
3) Disconnect the yellowish sensor plug from the TW sensor on top of the thermostat housing (for 89 LX-i's look here for a diagram of the alternator bracket (http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=Accord&catcgry2=1989&catcgry3=2DR+LXI&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=ALTERNATOR+BRACKET) part #10 in the picture).
4) With the car still running, use an ohmmeter to measure the resistance between the two pins in the sensor. The reading should be between 200 and 400 Ohms. If not, replace the sensor. Make sure you monitor the resistance for several minutes, not just a quick check and move on!!!
5) If the reading is OK and steady, check the voltage between the yellow/green slot (+) inside the sensor plug and the engine block (-). The reading should be 5 volts DC. If not, there is a short between the sensor and the ECU.
6) If 5 volts exists there, check the voltage between the two slots in the sensor plug itself. 5 volts should also exist there. If not, there is a short in the green/white wire between the sensor and the ECU.
7) If all readings check out, and code still exists, try installing a known good ECU and re-test.

I performed the above test on my car and found that the sensor resistance slowly but steadily decreased from 250 Ohms down below 200 Ohms while the car was idling. I will soon be replacing the sensor with a brand new one and hopefully this will solve my hot re-start problem. I hope this helps at least someone, PM me or reply if anyone needs other help. I'll repost when I get the new sensor too.

[danronian]

Related: I noticed the other day on my cheap voltmeter (not digital) that the battery voltage with the car off was under 12 volts, and while running it was at about 12 volts or a little over. I put some water into the cells hoping this would bring up the voltage, but I haven't checked it again. I'll look into this and see what I find out. Keep those ideas coming guys!
Often batteries won't put out 12 volts until the car is running. That ground that goes from the battery first connects to the frame a little beneath the battery. Check that connection also, mine was really corroded from the battery acid spilling onto it for many years, the wire is also exposed there and als gets very corroded. I just replaced my ground and engine ground with some 4 gauge amp wire and that helped my electrical system in every way.
Other than that it sounds to me like a started problem, if this sensor doesn't fix it. Often starters that are barely hanging in there will go bad when they get hot. Starters are real cheap to get rebuilt so you might want to just get it done if all else fails.