is this feasable [Archive] - 3geez.com - Classic Honda Accord & Prelude Forum

shepherd79

08-09-2004, 05:05 PM

it would be hard to build 400hp motor. you will have to run 30psi of boost at least.
the clutch won't hold up to it i am sure someother parts won't hold up for daily driver car. i think you should plan for 250whp first. when you get there, you may want to start thinking more, but first get to 250whp. i am sure even with 250whp you will have some major traction problems.

Justin86

08-09-2004, 08:49 PM

might have to add a shot of juice on it to help it along

Chadroper

08-10-2004, 06:09 AM

If I can get a clutch that will hold up to it and if I take the transmission apart and have the gears hardned and if I can get stronger driveaxles what will the problems be?

SteveDX89

08-10-2004, 06:31 AM

Traction.

Chadroper

08-10-2004, 06:39 AM

Why couldnt I have a seloind controlled BOV that would limit the boost to lets say 15 psi in 1st, 20 in 2nd 25 in 3rd etc.

SteveDX89

08-10-2004, 06:51 AM

Blow-off valves dont control boost pressure. Wastegates do. I don't know if they make them variable by gear. Most have springs inside and the wastegate opens when you exceed the boost pressure for that particular spring.

Chadroper

08-10-2004, 07:30 AM

What im talking about I think Apexi has one. There is a seloniod that controls the waste gate. If I could build something that would sense what gear it was in and what the cars speed is maybe it could vary the maxium boost pressure and solve the traction problem. The max boost pressure would increase as the cars speed increases and it would be more in 5th than in 1st.

HondaBoy

08-10-2004, 07:46 AM

i think even 200 whp would be pretty much something hard for the tires to hook up with. if only you could use a CR-V awd system on the accord. in a car this light 200 whp is gonna feel like a lot more. hopefully sean will keep makeing the parts and kits because i'd like to put the money into engine work myself. guess when after high school i can get to really thinking about major engine work. just 1 more year and i'll be done. also, i'm getting a stockpile of money ready.

SteveDX89

08-10-2004, 07:58 AM

On a stock B16 with I/H/E, I'm chirping 3rd gear. That's probably between 140-150 whp. Now imagine 3 times that much power. You're gonna need slicks. I don't think there is anything you can do to get something to sense what gear you're in. The trannies are all mechanical.

AccordEpicenter

08-10-2004, 12:30 PM

at 400whp a limited slip of some kind is just a nessescity... drag radials would be the bare minimum to safely get the car around town... and youd be smoking them all over the place too. At 275whp you can probably run low 12s or high 11s if the car is light enough... maybe faster... how fast do you need to go (thats DAMN fast)

Civvy

08-10-2004, 12:43 PM

Reliability!!!!

I think u'd be better off doing a b16turbo conversion!

Chadroper

08-10-2004, 02:56 PM

Is the B16 more reliable? Isn't the B16 block and crankshaft at least twice as strong as the A20? If that is true then I would be better off with the B16

Civvy

08-10-2004, 03:33 PM

Is the B16 more reliable? Isn't the B16 block and crankshaft at least twice as strong as the A20? If that is true then I would be better off with the B16

I presume so, since it has to handle more resination incured from higher rpms. but, mainly it should be more reliable because it will be less far from standard.

Highly modified engines such as race engines have to be rebiult at frequent intervals.

Chadroper

08-10-2004, 03:50 PM

I presume so, since it has to handle more resination incured from higher rpms. but, mainly it should be more reliable because it will be less far from standard.

Highly modified engines such as race engines have to be rebiult at frequent intervals.

Then the B16 block is stronger?

Chadroper

08-10-2004, 03:51 PM

Why did they even build the A series? The engines in the civics back then were better engines

A20A1

08-10-2004, 03:57 PM

The B16 can handle higher rpms cause it is stroked differently then the A20.
Stroke
77.4mm vs 91.0mm

The A20 may not flow as well on the exhaust end because it has one valve less then the B16... but you can make good power from it, especialy with FI.
Sure DOHC will give you more tuning in terms of valve timing... that is where the Bseries beats the A20 not in it's block, or crank strength.

But then if you want DOHC the JDM B20A is a good option,they just aren't easy to come by.

Anyone see the stroker kit for the B16 that bumps it's stroke to 87.2mm

smufguy

08-10-2004, 04:21 PM

Nobody makes a "street" clutch for us. THe only thing we can do is get a Race clutch (4 puck) amd an X-treme pressure plate from ACT and try and drive around with it. Do know that ur suspension needs to be taken care off along with the tire and brakes to put down that much power. There are a lot of work that needs to be done before u can think about building a 250whp A20.

First off is finding a turbo with an internal wastegate that can handle 300hp. Thiis is because you mentioned that ur gonna use Sean's manifold. Also, his manifold flange is designed in a way that it would accept only certain turbos that he listed (pm him for more details on the adaptable turbos).

Then you defenitely need an LSD and OPM motorsports makes a Clutch type one, which is rather good than a phantom grip so call them up and see how their stocking is. THe price tag on that puppy is $600+.

Next thing comes the Tuning part. You need to tune that bitch so that it wont blow up the motor. Standalone is the way to go and then comes the fun part of picking ur ignition system.

Side note: I been talking to numerous guys here in new jersey and i have found only a few who can make turbo stuff and only one who can tune the standalone that i wanna get. To give u an idea of what im talking about, with help from a dragracer, i might be pushing 300whp with just a tad over 25psi with no nitrous. I might go alcohol injection to lower the Intake air temp and get a knock sensor to get the bitch not pound. But again, Im still learning and gather all the information and weighing out the possibilities of if things can be done or not and how. Jhonny is my inspiration and if that dude can do his shit in his own backyard with his buddies, then damn ill do my best.

Civvy

08-10-2004, 04:31 PM

Chadroper. shhh! there's alot of people u'll upset saying that!

Civics are lightwieghts!! literally - small light car.

I dont know if its stronger, i;m just going on my own theory.

Don't forget tho, civic engines are only small and being put into a larger car would mean it had to work harder.

I think, the b16turbo conversion would be ideal for 1/4 mile. the B16 (i think) is one of honda's best designed engines. Honda's F1 secret was getting the highest rpms, they weren't interested in low end torque. To honda more rpm = more power. 160bhp in a stock 1600cc cant be sneezed at! the downside is it's a 1600cc and drives at low rpm like a 1600cc and like i said putting it in your heavy road car, it will be slow. UNLESS. you then add torque!

Adding torque also shouldnt be sneezed at.

Adding torque from then on is simply adding bolt ons!

Personally in my own road car i prefer to boost the torque of a 2.0L by adding a turbo and keeping it simple standard(ish)and reliable...and much cheaper!

SteveDX89

08-10-2004, 04:40 PM

Driving around town at low rpm on the B16 is no big deal. With my lightened flywheel, it's more responsive than the A20. When I push the gas down hard, it pushes you back into the seat.

The B series blocks are not stronger than the A20, they're aluminum compared to cast iron and they open deck opposed to closed deck. That's why heavy turbocharging requires block sleeves or block guard.

I believe Crower makes a B16 stroker kit that makes it 87 mm bore X 89 mm stroke. That's over 2.1 L people. However you have to pay for it. Costs something like $2500.

Chadroper

08-10-2004, 04:40 PM

Chadroper

08-10-2004, 04:42 PM

255 lb-ft would give about 400hp at 8200 rpm. Would 260 lb-ft be managable

Civvy

08-10-2004, 04:55 PM

Since the A20 is .4 liters bigger in theory you could cram more air into it? I found a way to fit a liquid-air intercooler in the car. With 30 psi and the liquid-air intercooler and maybe that water/alchol injector thing and a water cooled turbocharger it seems like it could make 400 hp
Well, heat is the worst enemy i suppose!

All things considered, I agree, cost aside you could build the engine! I think you could get all the aftermarket goodies for the whole car and custom make everything you cant. but, the last piece of the jigsaw being the gearbox will let down!

Dogbox? hmmm.

Civvy

08-10-2004, 05:04 PM

If you want that much power, i think youve gotta get something that HONDA or someone else designed. V-TEC is the only reliable way i would of thought because you get all the other vital bits of engineering that came with it like the gearbox etc,etc.

As i said, the further away from standard you make the engine, the further away from reliability!

fit a H22 or legend turbo or hell, Ferarri

smufguy

08-10-2004, 08:00 PM

255 lb-ft would give about 400hp at 8200 rpm. Would 260 lb-ft be managable

yeah 255ftlbs of torque at 8200 rpm will make exactly 398.1 hp (theoretically). If you can manage to push that much torque at that rpm, you got urself a race motor and the power is not made at 8200 rpm but much higher, so do be aware.

Chadroper

08-11-2004, 05:28 AM

It could have lets say 300 lb-ft at about 6,500

SteveDX89

08-11-2004, 06:41 AM

It could have lets say 300 lb-ft at about 6,500

Good bye, daily driver.

Robs89LXi

08-11-2004, 07:38 AM

Where are you guys getting these numbers from? 275, 300, 350hp? The only proof we have so far of any hp numbers is the dyno that Elijah has posted. He has a pretty nice little setup on his car so far, and has just about doubled his hp to 160 (crank, by the way). With the built engine (which does not add hp, by the way), intercooling and better engine management, he may get to 200hp; I hope he does. But let's not get off into fishing stories here. Untill someone actually builds a car that gets over 160hp on a dyno, and posts the proof of it, then 160 is all we really know is attainable. And yes, yes, I've heard of JohnnyO, but I'm not talking race cars here. I believe most of us are seeking daily drivers, right? For a turbo charged car to double it's stock hp output is very good, but to triple it as you guys are talking about would take it way out of the realm of daily driver, and I'm not even sure it is even a possibility without massive other modifications. I'd wait untill the PROVEN numbers come out, that's all.

SteveDX89

08-11-2004, 08:18 AM

PortugalFocus

08-11-2004, 08:32 AM

I believe Crower makes a B16 stroker kit that makes it 87 mm bore X 89 mm stroke. That's over 2.1 L people. However you have to pay for it. Costs something like $2500.

But by making the bore and stroke larger wouldnt you also decrease the strength and thickness of the cylinder wall?

Stroking a 1.6L engine to half a liter more that what it's supposed to do is questionable in my eye. The the B16 wouldnt rev as high or produce as much hp either, but more torque. But if you are gonna go through that, just start with a B20 to begin with.

SteveDX89

08-11-2004, 09:38 AM

But by making the bore and stroke larger wouldnt you also decrease the strength and thickness of the cylinder wall?

Stroking a 1.6L engine to half a liter more that what it's supposed to do is questionable in my eye. The the B16 wouldnt rev as high or produce as much hp either, but more torque. But if you are gonna go through that, just start with a B20 to begin with.

The block would need sleeved to go that big. Hellacious sleeper though when someone sees a B16 engine stamp but doesn't know it's 2.1 L.

A20A1

08-11-2004, 03:36 PM

It won't be the lower revs that kill the stroked B16, it will be the small bore... which usually means a smaller combustion chamber and samller valves... so it's more restriction from the head design not ment for 2.1L then the fact it revs less...
But who knows, maybe with an overbore and a head swap?... too much money just to have a B16 turn into a B21 :D

smufguy

08-11-2004, 08:40 PM

we get those numbers from Virtual Engine Calculator, or atleast I do and yes its just an estimate and not real solid numbers.

Elijah is not running a standalone, or atleast so far i know. He is gonna and once he does, he will be able to squeeze more power out of it. Also, u think getting 350hp out of our engine and still be street legal, as in pass the strict ass NJ emissions, well one day i will give you a proof of that, until then i will be doing my work and my research on getting the tables up to tune my car once everything goes into it.

Im an engineering student and pretty soon i will have a degree that states that i am one and in the engineering world ideas and plans go before a prototype and in my world an idea and the plans and theory and everything on paper goes into a model that actually depicts a real life activity before its put into works. There are people who can make crazy things with stuff given in their hands and i am lucky to know a few and some have been my mentors. and With their help, and god's grace, i will get where i wanna be.

;)

Chadroper

08-12-2004, 06:18 AM

So it would be cheaper and a lot easier to buy a B16A and turbocharge it? I know the mounts and driveaxles can be bought and everything for the B16A just bolts up to it and the B16A engine itself is not very expensive.

Chadroper

08-12-2004, 08:02 AM

If i use a B16A it will need to be the one that used the mechanical clutch? Was that 89-91 the JDM B16A? I know the newer B16A the US one used hydraulic clutch.

Oyvind Ryeng

08-12-2004, 08:22 AM

About a large-stroke, large-bore B16: The absolute maximum it can be bored (WITH SLEEVES!) is just around 87mm. And at 87mm you get problems with the headgasked not sealing, and if you scratch the cylinder walls - bye bye sleeves - no room for going up .5mm. Stroking the B16 is slightly problematic with it's really short height. The LS-blocks are (supposedly) 7mm taller, and allow for more stroke with better R/S-ratio than what can be arranged in a B16. Deckplating is also a possibiliy with the B16, so one can use longer rods for better R/S-ratio.

In the A20, I say, get Diamond pistons and Eagle H-profile connectingrods, and you're bacically set. That combo is supposed to take just about anything you can throw at them, and they are dirt cheap (around 650 (?) complete). People can say whatever they want about the A20, but it's without a doubt a stout, sturdy engine with the potential to create som wicked torque when building it the right way.

SteveDX89

08-12-2004, 08:22 AM

If i use a B16A it will need to be the one that used the mechanical clutch? Was that 89-91 the JDM B16A? I know the newer B16A the US one used hydraulic clutch.

Correct.

AccordEpicenter

08-12-2004, 04:23 PM

you can get cable B series trannies for that just fine. B16 is not nearly as strong as an A20 in bottom end strength, but the A20 has a largely inefficient head design compared to the B16, plus with all that stroke, you dont want to be spinning 8000 rpms with an A20 at all... but for that short stroke b16 its all fun and games

Chadroper

08-15-2004, 06:32 AM

what would happen if the A20 was spinning 8000 rpm.

A20A1

08-15-2004, 07:00 AM

The Earth would explode in a ball of flames...

Actually you may do a lot of damage/wear to the valve train, I know about the wear part for experience...
Also you'll cause a good amount of wear on the crank and rods and pistons and cylinderwalls...
If you're unlucky like I was with my 86 DX the bottom end will just fall to peices

But to conter that I have my A20A1 which lasted and my A20A3 which is also still running strong... However there is good wear on the valve guides and such.

Metal actualy streaches and flexes at high rpms... well at any rpm but the faster the more dramatic the effect.

Civvy

08-15-2004, 08:03 AM

Rjudgey is redlining at 8000rpm. but he has reliability issues, also his car is used for drag. therefore ........as i already said....
The car was originally designed for less than 150bhp.
for b16 tips check out crx forums.
I thought www.b20.com usefull but before/if u get any mad idea's, check out my posts/reply's.

Chadroper

08-15-2004, 04:03 PM

Chadroper

08-15-2004, 04:05 PM

What part actually fails first at 8000 rpm? Is it the block itself, the crankshaft, or the rods, pistons, etc.

tatmark1

08-15-2004, 04:22 PM

first problem would probly be valve train as a20 said

A20A1

08-15-2004, 04:30 PM

Destroking would help revs... I just try to keep my revs @ or below 7,500

Why do you want to rev so high anyways?

Chadroper

08-15-2004, 04:31 PM

I want it to rev to 8000 or 8500 because it can make 400 flywheel hp without makeing as much torque which= easier on clutch, transmission, driveaxles, etc.

Chadroper

08-15-2004, 04:32 PM

Also the valvetrain problem can be overcome by heattreating the valve train and coating it with a friction reducing coating and shot peening.

smufguy

08-15-2004, 09:43 PM

i dont think our motor is good enough for higher revs, let alone 8K. yeah it can be done, but i would be crossing my finger about it. I have taken the motor apart recently and lemme tell u the crank is not gonna be spinning that smooth at that high rpm. This crank is a solid mofo. the bottom end of our block is sturdy and stronger than most blocks i have seen. Better than some of the domestic cast iron blocks.

Point being, the bottom end is too heavy to help it spin that high. Without proper camshaft, valve springs and valves, the first thing that u would run into is valve float, IMO. and with a stroke of 91mm, our block is not good to have too much rotational moment on the bottom end.

I would suggest that you get the motor built up strong and go with nitrous if you dont wanna go turbo. That would be your best ally to make the power you are looking for. This is because of the head design, you are gonna be flowing less than or pretty close to 360 cfm with 500 lift like Sean achieved. But u need to find a shop who can accomplish what Sean did.

smufguy

08-15-2004, 09:56 PM

If I used rods that will not flex enough to pull apart and built something that would go over the main bearing caps to stiffen the block and had the pistons shot peened and coated with something to reduce friction and also had the rockershafts and rocker arms coated and shot peened would it work? What about destroking the engine to maybe 1.9 liters?

1. IF you are thinking about strengthening the block, think again. You are not looking at an aluminum block here with the A20 to build gurdles to hold the bottom end together. Also u are not looking at a V8 block like the chevy or ford that has a larger bore and a bigger crankshaft hence the block bottom being larger and the edges being farther apart. The bottom of our block is bullet proof so dont worry about it.

2. Pistons. pistons dont touch the block at all. The rings do. and using a good oil will take care of lubrication. Just get a stronger piston. a forged or a CNC machined like the diamond or JE. also dont forget the rods and wrist pins they suggest.

3. Destroking. U wanna destroke to 1.9L? u are better off with a 1.6 like Mike suggested, cause wit that little change in stroke, u are still in the same area as ur stock stroke figures.

Chadroper

08-16-2004, 07:35 AM

So the problem is the weight of the crankshaft? What about getting Carillo to build titanium rods which would make the bottom end lighter?

Chadroper

08-16-2004, 07:36 AM

I was going to use valves and valve springs that will not float until like 8500 rpm. So the valve train problem is solved.

Chadroper

08-16-2004, 07:45 AM

Can't a CNC be used to remove metal from the counterweights? So our crankshaft could be made maybe 5% or 10% lighter without making it weaker?

tatmark1

08-16-2004, 08:39 AM

sure you can get it knife edged

Chadroper

08-16-2004, 10:32 AM

So if it is knife edged that would decrease the stress on it at high speeds 6k-8k rpm and it would increase the reliability?

A20A1

08-16-2004, 01:58 PM

Well along with lightening anything getting the motor fully balanced to 9K would decrease the stress... that may or may not be possible.

Civvy

08-17-2004, 07:08 AM

www.jakan.co.uk reckon they've got the B20 vtec licked because they've nicked a brace from the gsr's and customed it and fitted it to stop the bearing bolts from sheering. They will custom anything if thats what your looking for.

smufguy

08-17-2004, 04:43 PM

see the things you are saying about ppl and shops doing things to the motor is based on the popular B series motor, whose line is interchangable, as in B16, B18 and B20 have interchangeable parts in the block that can be switched around to ur wildest dreams.

Money is a factor here and no matter what, custom fabrication is gonna cost you. But if you are looking to have a motor rev at a crazy 8K or beyond, the A20 is not for you. Its bottom end is just too damn heavy to hold anything at that higher speed. I would even think the timing belt would not withstand that kind of abuse.

Yeah you can get titanium rods and what not made, but have fun finding someone who will take time to make one for you. By now you should have realized that this motor is not aftermarket friendly just for the sheer reason that its too old. This is why the AEM/DC group are also backing out of the 4th/5th gen accord aftermarket supports. cause nobody really boosts up their accords, honda guys stick on Civics and hence our blocks and cars been left out.

I would say, just look for people who would be willing to spend some time to find you something compatable and to do so, get all the information that you need for the motor, like the specs and whatnot and have those guys u talk to, take a look and then and find something that would match your (our block) specs or can find something that can be made to fit our cars without sacrificing reliability.

HOpe this advice helps you cause you know you are not the first one to step these areas, tons have been there and realized its just a deep money pit which is not that worth it. :)

Oyvind Ryeng

08-17-2004, 06:02 PM

Titanium conrods? No problem, the LS ones works fine, and are available (at a high cost ofcourse). The trick of having the bottom end withstanding insanely high RPM's is as follows:

-As light as possible rods and pistons.
-Having the crank balanced and weight adjusted perfectly with respect to the weight of the complete piston+rod-assembly (this applies the nullification principle).
-You can also think about shortening the stroke (use the A16A-crank, witch sadly has a 3mm smaller bore where the rods are connected; bye bye LS-rods) to improve the R/S-ratio and reduse the devastating (sp?) piston speeds that naturally follows a long stroke with short rods (like the stock A20 has).
-IMHO, the head is the biggest limiting factor, with that stupid single cam and those 9-tons heavy rocker arms (inertia, anyone?). Also, the head will require extensive work and porting to make power at high RPM's, even with a redused displacement.

Chadroper

08-18-2004, 06:16 PM

Why did they make the A20 so heavy? Since a B series is lighter and just as durable

Chadroper

08-18-2004, 06:22 PM

So the problem is inertia? Would 7,500 rpm be possible?

Oyvind Ryeng

08-18-2004, 09:10 PM

The A20 is heavy because the block is cast iron, not aluminium like the B-series. Don't be fooled, the A20 block IS stronger than any B-block; what do you think is stronger: cast iron or aluminium? Well, that does not stop the B-series guys from extracting 350 WHP on their stock bores (B16 & B18) (pistons and rods are reccomended at this level).

In my opinion, it's the inertia of the valvetrain that limits the A20's head. It's only a theory from my side, but our rocker arms and even the valves themselves seem to be rather heavy. I'm sure stiffer valvesprings, retainers and new valves will take 7500 RPM. For the record, I have *never* spun my A20 over 5500 RPM; there is no point in doing it, it won't make any torque over that point, just noise (stock /w DynoMax headerback exhaust).

Chadroper

08-19-2004, 04:42 PM

If the camshaft profile was changed it could make torque at 7,500

smufguy

08-19-2004, 09:10 PM

If the camshaft profile was changed it could make torque at 7,500

technically, it would, but not as much as you want or expect. You will make noticeable torques which is much greater than the stock one with a different cam profile, but not too much past 7K due to the inability of the motor to make any kinda power or torque (which is actually useful) anywhere near readline.

The stock head does not flow good. besides, its one of the worst head designs if you ask me. BUt its can be made to flow 350 cfm under 500 lift like sean did and still be able to make more power than a B-series. you probably know by now that the limitation of the motor comes mainly from the flow of the head and the design of it. under high engine speeds, if the valves are shitty designed, then it just limits the flow around the valve faces causing eddy currents which induce turbulance that causes poor engine performance. So pushing in high volume of air than high velocity of air is actually beneficial for this motor if you ask me.

Chadroper

08-20-2004, 05:30 AM

if the engine was turbocharged since the pressure in the manifold would be higher then couldnt the engine suck in more air at high speed

smufguy

08-20-2004, 07:10 AM

if the engine was turbocharged since the pressure in the manifold would be higher then couldnt the engine suck in more air at high speed

you wont have to spin a car that is turbocharged anymore than 7K rpm. But unless they are running on dinky ass boost like 5 or 6 psi, then i guess it wont matter.

i still dont quite grasp your fetish for spinning this motor at 8K buddy. :)

SteveDX89

08-20-2004, 07:24 AM

He wishes it were a B. I don't blame him.

Civvy

08-20-2004, 12:20 PM

My only sugestion is talking to sean. he THINKS he has it sussed!

smufguy

08-20-2004, 11:14 PM

if the engine was turbocharged since the pressure in the manifold would be higher then couldnt the engine suck in more air at high speed

also, on a turbocharged motor, your motor "sucking air" is limited by how much the turbo can push. as in how much pressure the turbo can push, in a sense 15 psi or 30 psi. whatever is the max for the turbo, is the max for your motor, given ur motor can withstand it.

You basic idea is right, but technically the motor does not suck in more air at higher rpm like you think it does. Flow is not laminar anymore, but more of a turbulant. Besides, at higher rpm, its hard for fast moving air to get thru the tiny passage of the valves and hence the restiction. thats why V-tec uses longer valve stroke (whatever u call it) to increase air flow, but increasing the valve opening timing and lift (depth of opening).

I would suggest that you read more about Internal combustion engine on the internet and see how the engine dynamics work before you get yourself hooked on to high revving of this motor, per se. :)

Chadroper

08-21-2004, 11:29 AM

I know how the flow works, but if you increase the pressure in the manifold more air will be sucked into the engine at the same speed.

Chadroper

08-21-2004, 11:32 AM

Would it just be easier for simplicitys sake just to rev it to maybe 7,000 or 7,300 at the most? and just use 12-15 psi. That should make it faster than most stock cars like ford focuses, cavaliers, civics, ?

Robs89LXi

08-21-2004, 01:17 PM

Four pages on if the A20 can rev to 8000rpm?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :ugh:
Let it go, man! :sadwave:

Chadroper

08-21-2004, 06:04 PM

:pc: then its a piece of junk.

smufguy

08-21-2004, 09:24 PM

I know how the flow works, but if you increase the pressure in the manifold more air will be sucked into the engine at the same speed.

engine does not suck in air in a forced inductuded motor my man. Hence the name "Force induction". You force air and fuel mixture into the cylinders and everything goes on from there. period.

If you wanna rev up to 7300K and boost a max of 15psi. You will be way faster than the cars u listed, cause even with 4 psi of boost, you will be able to crap their pants. also, you have to keep in mind that our stroke is pretty high. if you compare our block to the blocks of the turbo DSMs (eclipse/talon/laser) you will notice that they run bigger bore and shorter stroke to minimize the inertia of the piston under boost. So yeah, they do redline at 7K, but this is because of their shorter stroke. So u can go ahead and make ur stroke and TRY to make ur bore bigger to help you rev a lil higher, but due to the build of the block, the motor is not capable of overboring (forget about sleaving) and hence u are risking a lot of money and time and material just trying to get ur car rev up to 7K or even beyond.

So i would say, just forget about getting your car to rev this high under boost, cause ur just not gonna have a reliable motor under this. Unless u are filthy rich and have the ability to cryo-treat all the parts. Which will be an amazement. :pc:

Chadroper

08-22-2004, 05:05 AM

So if the A series had a lighter crankshaft and rods and a DOHC vtec head it would be better motor

SteveDX89

08-22-2004, 05:57 AM

So if the A series had a lighter crankshaft and rods and a DOHC vtec head it would be better motor

AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. What a ridiculous post. :rofl: :lol: Just mod your STi.

smufguy

08-22-2004, 07:05 AM

So if the A series had a lighter crankshaft and rods and a DOHC vtec head it would be better motor

no it would be a B-series. :uh: :thumbdown

Yeah that was sarcasm. But anywho, :help: its not worth it PERIOD. dont take this the wrong way, but if your hell bent on revving this motor beyond 7K in the idea of making the power there, well then, ur just looking at the wrong place and the wrong motor.

Plain and simple. You want a high rev motor, get a swap. You want to stick with the A series, turbo that shit and rev that bitch happily to the redline. :dunno:

Chadroper

08-23-2004, 10:59 AM

My Sti is my car i drive to work. I am not going to do anything to it. I need a 2.2 liter 4 cylinder DOHC 24 valve i-vtec head on a closed deck cast iron block with tool steel sleeves, titanium rods, titanium crankshaft, forged pistons, sodium filled titanium valves. The engine could change its compression ratio like the one Saab has. It could be turbocharged and intercooled making 500hp at 9,000 rpm

SteveDX89

08-23-2004, 02:57 PM

So you bought a $30,000 car with 300 hp just to drive to work. You don't need that much power to get to work.

No head made by Honda has 6 valves per cylinder. Exotic car makers like Ferrari and Lamborghini don't even use 6 valves a cylinder, why would Honda?

You want I-VTEC. Welcome to K series country. The K series has never been done or attempted in a 3rd gen. I'm pretty sure the block is aluminum and I don't know whether it's closed deck or not. The engine you're trying to build is just not cost effective. You would spend 10's of thousands of dollars trying to build it.

smufguy

08-23-2004, 04:55 PM

just get a dart block which is a B18/B20 block made by DART. they are custom made and are closed deck as opposed to open deck from the factory.

Also from the feel of the STI that my friend has, i would say ur just looking into the wrong car here to boost up with all the ideas in your head.

Any mod out there is looking at this, say something and put this thread to rest. poor thing has been going on forever.

Chadroper

08-23-2004, 07:15 PM

Porsche did build a 36 valve v-6 a prototype. If I am not mistaken it had 2 turbochargers and was a 3.5 liter?

SteveDX89

08-24-2004, 02:15 AM

Porsche did build a 36 valve v-6 a prototype. If I am not mistaken it had 2 turbochargers and was a 3.5 liter?

That's pretty sweet. Too bad it wasn't produced.

Chadroper

08-24-2004, 06:10 PM

I think audi has a 24 valve 1.8 liter 4 cylinder

Robs89LXi

08-24-2004, 07:07 PM

Any mod out there is looking at this, say something and put this thread to rest. poor thing has been going on forever.

Please, please, please... let it die! :burn:

Oyvind Ryeng

08-25-2004, 04:04 AM

I think audi has a 24 valve 1.8 liter 4 cylinder
No they haven't. They do however have a 20-valve 4-cylinder. Also, Toyota have a 4AG(?)-engine from the Corolla AW111 that has 3 intake valves and 2 exhaust valves, totalling in 20 valves in that 4-cyl engine.

SteveDX89

08-25-2004, 04:57 AM

Die and go to hell thread :)

PortugalFocus

08-25-2004, 05:11 AM

Die and go to hell thread :)

please someone :lock: this thread and have mercy on us.

smufguy

08-25-2004, 06:02 AM

yeah we know the MR2 came with the 20V 4-banger and so did the older GTI (rabbit) came with 20V. But seriously, this thread has been prolonged too much. Much needed info has already been provided, all the questions he asked has been answered. But if this is gonna be just a bullshit thread from here on, well it needs to be locked.