PDA

View Full Version : Turbocharging / Supercharging / Nitrous / Q&A



A20A1
08-15-2004, 05:58 AM
All info contained herein was gathered from this or other sites and compiled here, nothing written should be taken without some sense of scrutiny.


TURBOCHARGING AND OTHER FORMS OF FORCED INDUCTION

HOW A TURBO WORKS (http://www.howstuffworks.com/turbo.htm)

WHO HAS A TURBO ACCORD (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=46593)


FACTORY HONDA TURBO SOHC ENGINE
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3482&stc=1

LOG TURBO MANIFOLDS
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3422
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3425
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3426
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3430

TUBE TURBO MANIFOLDS
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3427
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3451
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3452 (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37294)
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3423
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3424

TURBO MANIFOLD - TURBO LOCATED INSIDE ENGINE BAY
* Non Turbo Aftermarket Headers from Pacesetter and DC Sports are not strong enough to support the stress of a turbocharged engine.
Log Type VS Tube Type
* It is an assumption that a tube type manifold will produce more lag then a log style, a good tubular manifold design with low restriction will give no more lag then a log manifold and in some cases a tubular manifold will flow better.
* Log styles are mainly used because they are cheaper to make therefore they are cheaper to buy and usually are made to install with factory equipment unaffected.

REMOTE TURBO
STS ( SQUIRE TURBO SYSTEMS ) (http://www.ststurbo.com/home)
* With a properly sized turbo the remote mount system can offer many benifits; Cooler Turbo, Oil, and Engine Temperatures are some of the benifits.
They do offer a coating for the exhasut pipes to retain as much heat as you can from the header all the way back to the turbo, this will retain thermal efficiency. Where as if you allow the heat from the header to the turbo to bleed off you'll be wasting the energy to heat the air around the exhaust instead of keeping it in the exhaust gas.

INTERNAL VS EXTERNAL WASTEGATES
- Internal Wastegates
* Vents exhaust evenly from the manifold instead of a few runners like some external ones do.
* Less boost adjustability without boost controller.
- External Wastegates
* Allow you to adjust the boost level

INTAKE MANIFOLD
- JG EDDELBROCK B16A B18C
* Will have to be modified slightly to adapt to the A20A

EXHAUST
2.5" - 3.0"

TURBO LUBRICATION ( OIL )
* For the turbo oil feed you tap the line for the oil pressure switch on the oil filter adapter.

ENGINE COOLING
- ALUMINUM RADIATORS
--- PWR
--- GRIFFIN
--- FLUIDYNE

- OIL COOLERS
--- HKS
--- B&M

INTAKE CHARGE COOLING
- AIR / AIR INTERCOOLER
--- SPEARCO
- WATER / AIR INTERCOOLER
--- SPEARCO
--- PWR
- ALCOHOL INJECTION
--- SMC (http://www.smcenterprises.com/subaru.htm)
--- ERL AQUAMIST (http://www.wrxevolution.com/alcoholinjection.asp)
- WATER INJECTION
--- AQUAMIST (http://www.aquamist.co.uk/index.html)
--- ERL AQUAMIST (http://www.wrxevolution.com/alcoholinjection.asp)

INTERNAL ENGINE UPGRADES

compression Calculator (USE IT!)
http://www.c-speedracing.com/howto/compcalc/compcalc.php

- PISTONS
--- WISECO
--- DIAMOND

Diamond pistons
- Bore your Cylinders first ONLY as much as you need to and then use those specs to order custom pistons.
83mm bore is preferable (stock bore is 82.7mm)

- Get the Normal Chromoly Total Seal Ring Package instead of the Gapless
here is some discussion on why not to get gapless
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=26216

NEED HELP WITH YOUR DIAMOND PISTON SPECS? (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=55956)


- RODS

THREAD ON EAGLE AND CROWER RODS (http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=59381)

--- EAGLE @ IMPORTPARTS.COM (http://www.importparts.com)
* According to eagle the lowest priced place to get them is importparts.com
* This eagle Rod is a direct fit into the A20A engine. the only change required is to enlarge to a 21mm wrist pin from a 20mm wrist pin. Diamond pistons will accommodate this change here's the eagle part number
* Part Number - CRS5394a3d - Eagle rods

B18A / B18B DOHC non-VTEC
CRS5394A3D "ESP" H-Beam Connecting Rods

CROWER
B18A / B18B DOHC non-VTEC


- BOLTS FASTENERS
--- ARP (http://www.arp-bolts.com/)

ARP Head Studs, part # 218-4703
http://arp-bolts.com/Catalog/Catalog.html
For '98-'02 Miata. Same as ours.

- GASKETS
Cometic head gasket
- Send in a new A20 Gasket and have a copper gasket made from it.
http://www.3geez.com/forum/showthread.php?t=56658

--- COMETIC COPPER B20A Head Gasket. (http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=37350)

TRANSMISSION UPGRADES
- LSD
--- PHANTOM (http://www.phantomgrip.com)
- CLUTCH
---

A20A1
08-15-2004, 05:59 AM
ENGINE MANAGEMENT
- MICROTECH (http://www.microtechefi.com/html/LT.htm)
- J&S SAFE GUARD (http://www.jandssafeguard.com/)
- SDS (http://www.sdsefi.com/)
- HALTECH (http://www.haltech.com)
- HONDATA (http://www.hondata.com/index.html)
- GM 7730
- GM ECM ( SEAN / FUNSTICK ) (http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=2801)
- ELECTROMOTIVE TEC3 (http://www.electromotive-inc.com)
- MEGASQUIRT (http://www.megasquirt.info/)
- LINK (http://www.link-electro.co.nz/home.html)
- MOTEC (http://www.motec.com/)
- A'PEXi (http://www.apexi-usa.com/)
- GREDDY (http://www.greddy.com/)
- AEM (http://www.aempower.com/default.asp)
- ACCEL DFI (http://go.mrgasket.com/ftp/calmap/DFI%20Parts%20List.pdf) * PDF Format
- DTA (http://www.dtafast.co.uk/)
- GOTECH-MFI (http://www.hillbankusa.com/gotech/gotech.htm)
- HOLLEY COMMANDER 950 ECU (http://www.holley.com/HiOctn/ProdLine/Products/C950/C950MPFI/534-120.html)


My new ecu is made here from finland.
http://www.tatech.net/ -sorry, only finnish.
It is fully real-time programmed with computer. Awesome! This is my secret weapon how I can keep this car running like dream. I may give this car for my mother-in-law's shopping - and she is awful driver! :)
Tatech is almost like this Hestec
http://www.sci.fi/~hestec2/english/aindexE.htm but little bit cheaper and better.

You asked about that Tatech Ecu. I find an demo-version from they www-pages.
Direct link:
http://www.sohva.org/~tikkis/demo/tatech.exe
or you can go to
http://www.tatech.net/ and then click with mouse "TEKNISET TIEDOT" -page (it means: technics specks)
and then click picture of computer
("LATAA ILMAINEN DEMO" - means download free demo).
There come one selfunzip-file. Unpack it somewhere and run Tatech_4_3411_DEMO.exe. It ain't install anything or make any chances anywhere. Just test it and you can delete it like any files.. This program is ENGLISH!!! So you can try it and you can see what i can do with this ECU in realtime! If you have more questions, ask me and I'll try to answer. It's easier with that way..

- Heikki



OTHER ENGINE MANAGEMENT
REDLINE (http://www.redlineweber.com/html/throttle_bodies/Slideshow.htm) * Possible Upgrade for EFI or a Carb to EFI conversion start point. Many options to choose from.
OTHER ENGINE SENSORS / PARTS COMPATABILITY
4TH GEN ACCORD DISTRIBUTOR / ECU (http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=18160)
4TH GEN ACCORD THROTTLE BODY (http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=31853)
4TH GEN ACCORD MAP SENSOR (http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=32215)
4TH GEN ALTERNATOR (http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=30936)

TURBO TERMS
PSI = Pounds Per Square Inch * Also referred to as "Boost" /// 12psi = 12lbs /// 1 BAR = 14.503773773 PSI
FMIC = Front Mount Intercooler * Cools air that was compressed by the turbo, usually located in front bumper.
IC = Intercooler ( or ) Internal combustion *Context dependent
FI = Forced Induction * Term used to describe Turbocharging, Supercharging, and Nitrous Injection.
Charge Pipe * Pipe located after the turbo, carries compressed air charge to Throttle Body(ies) -> Inatake Manifold -> Cylinders
BOV = Blow Off Valve * Vents excess Charge Pipe pressure
Wastegate * Vents excess turbo manifold pressure to control level of boost
FMU = Fuel Management Unit * Adds more fuel via AFC readings
AFC = Air Fuel Controler
SAFC = Super Air Flow Computer * Modifies air-flow meter signal or pressure signal in some vehicles.

TURBO RELATED LINKS
How-To-Turbo-Your-Car (http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/g2icturbo.html#Engine)
MOSSELMAN TURBO SYSTEMS (http://www.mosselmanturbo.com/) * One Known Turbo Manifold From Them In Pics Above, Maybe Two.
TURBOS UNLEASHED (http://www.turbosunleashed.com/) * Turbo Supplier
G2 IC TURBO (http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/g2icturbo.html) * Good Turbo Info
JGS (http://www.jgstools.com/turbo/index2.html) * Turbo Manifold Parts Supplier
TURBO CALCULATOR (http://www.turbocalculator.com/sale-turbos.php) * Turbo Parts Supplier
TURBONETICS (http://www.turboneticsinc.com/) * Turbo Parts Supplier
TUNER TOYS (http://www.tunertoys.com/) * Turbo Parts Supplier

DO IT YOURSELF LINKS
HOMEMADE TURBO (http://www.homemadeturbo.com) * How to make a homemade turbo setup
TURBO MANIFOLD #1 (http://www.powerpage.dk/manifold/manifold1/header_for2_3Lford.htm) * How to make a turbo manifold
TURBO MANIFOLD #2 (http://www.sdsefi.com/techheader.htm) * How to make a turbo manifold
TURBO MANIFOLD #3 (http://www.80tq.com/tube_header.html) * How to make a turbo manifold
TURBO MANIFOLD #4 (http://www.4agte.com/old_turbo_manifold_page.htm) * How to make a turbo manifold
ALCOHOL / WATER INJECTION (http://members.cox.net/stevemonroe/AlcoholInjMod.html) * How to make homemade Water / Alcohol injection
INTERCOOLER (http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=31096) * How to make an Intercooler

WANNABE TURBO LINKS
Fake Turbo / Real Turbo Sound (http://www.sunamiturbo.com/)

TURBOED A20A LINKS
TURBO DUAL WEBER CARBS (http://up.edu/~midehara/index.htm)

OTHER GOOD SITES
ENDYNE ENGINE DYNAMICS (http://www.theoldone.com/)
AUTO SPEED (http://www.autospeed.com/) * This site is filled with articles and do-it-yourself turbo projects.
PGFI (http://www.pgmfi.org) * Good resource for learning about programming ECU's

BOOKS ON TURBOCHARGING
Supercharging, Turbocharging and Nitrous Oxide Performance
By: Earl Davis, Diane Davis
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3471&stc=1

Maximum Boost: Designing, Testing, and Installing Turbocharger Systems
By: Corky Bell
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3469&stc=1

Turbochargers
By: Hugh MacInnes
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3470&stc=1


SOMETHING DIFFERENT

SUPERCHARGERS
- JACKSON RACING ( B16A or B18C ) (http://www.jacksonracing.com)
- JACKSON RACING CONSUMER FEEDBACK (http://tech.hybridgarage.com/tech/marc-jrsc-after.html) * For A20A and B20A Applications There are a few fitment issues.

INSTALL PROBLEMS
1) For Left Hand Drive Cars the Brake Master Cylinder may get in the way of the supercharger.
2) The frame of the strut tower protrudes into the area used by the Super Charger pully
3) Also no one has ever tried to hookup or align the belts and pulleys.
4) Oil Filter May need a Relocation Kit.
http://www.3geez.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=3432
- VORTECH (http://www.vortechsuperchargers.com)
- PROCHARGER (http://www.procharger.com/)
- CAMDEN (http://www.camdensuperchargers.com/)
- THOMAS KNIGHT ESC ( ELECTRIC SUPERCHARGER ) (http://www.boosthead.com/home.php) * So far one of the best electric supercharger designs, worth it? You decide.
- ELECTRIC SUPERCHARGER E-RAM (http://www.electricsupercharger.com) * Buy at your own pleasure, but please try to do your research before you spend money on this.

NITROUS OXIDE
- NITROUS FAQ (http://www.3geez.com/images/uploaded/1-nosfaq.htm)
- ZEX
- Nitrous Express
- NOS


*** READ ON FOR MEMBER INSITE ON FORCED INDUCTION ***
* * *
***

A20A1
08-15-2004, 06:00 AM
MY NOTES ON TURBOCHARGING
This should answer some of your questions regarding turbocharging your car and would save people especially newbies asking the same old turbo questions again & again.

Engine
Normally aspirated engines are not happy with the heat and pressure of turbocharging. You need to lower the compression to a level manageable by the engine and ignition control you are using. Generally 7.5:1 to 8.0:1 will do what you want on today's terrible pump gas.
Pistons and Rings
Always use Forged Pistons that are properly designed for the engine you are building. We use JE Pistons and Total-Seal Rings in all our engines. If you cannot afford the forged pistons and you are building an engine that has a factory Turbocharged equivalent then use the factory Turbo pistons. They are never all that great for serious duty use but they are a good affordable alternative to normally aspirated high compression pistons. We use Total-Seal rings because they have proven to keep all the power in the cylinders and minimize blow by under hard boost conditions.
Block
Generally the block is fine for streetable boost levels. Very high boost pressures or race applications are a different story. If a steel shim gasket is available for your particular application, use it. They are expensive but well worth the money.
Cylinder Head and Porting
Good quality valve jobs and Stainless Steel valves. If Stainless Steel valves are not available or not in your budget at least get the stock ones high heat coated. This is generally inexpensive and will extend the life of the valve considerably. Porting varies with the head and engine. Generally for most street applications a nice clean up port with most of the attention being paid to the bowl area around the head of the valve and good match porting of the manifold and head surfaces. We try to do a high polish on the exhaust port to promote exhaust flow and minimize buildup and a swirl finish on the intake for better fuel atomization.
Ignition Timing Control
This is the key to Turbo cars running on pump gas. You cannot use a normally aspirated ignition distributor or engine control for a Turbo application. You will detonate and hurt even the best of pistons and rings. Most factory Turbo cars have excellent ignition systems with very conservative timing curves that are great for higher boost applications. If you are doing a normally aspirated to Turbo conversion you need to either incorporate the ignition into your fuel injection or use a timing control such as an MSD or JACOBS to insure you have proper boost retard for the level of boost you are running.
Fuel Management
We do not believe in turbocharging any car without it being Fuel Injected first. Yeah, we know it's not impossible to have a carbureted Turbo system, we've even done it ourselves plenty of times, but it will have drivability and heat problems not to mention float and seal failures ( Just ask someone that owns a Maserati Biturbo ). Programmable management is really the answer to a simple and effective installation on a normally aspirated car. We use either the Electromotive TEC-II or the HALTECH F9A units. Retrofitting a factory F.I. system into a normally aspirated car or into a car with a different style of management is not impossible but it is very complicated, so be sure and have a very good working knowledge of the cars electrical system before undertaking such a task. We recommend an on-board air fuel ratio monitor in all applications to make sure you do not lean out the engine under boost and put big holes in things. We use the HALMETER AF/30. It is almost always necessary to install a larger volume high-pressure fuel pump and some form of Boost Referenced Rising Rate Fuel Pressure Regulator to insure proper fuel delivery under boost.

CARB to TURBO EFI
Ok if you want a turbo, you need to do the EFI SWAP. (http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=112)

The next step after you convert to EFI there's a shitload of things you need to consider,

firstly the condition of your engine. How many km's has it done? Is it blowing smoke? How much boost does the stock pistons, rods handle? - To answer that, generally the accord stock would be safe around 5-6psi at the most, I wouldn't push it anymore. And if it's a really heavily used motor, well...look to a rebuild with forged pistons, and all the other crap.

How much boost do you want to go? anything beyond 6+ look to rebuilding your engine first, secondly look at upgrading the fuel delivery, injectors, pumps, FPR, etc. The last thing you EVER want is running lean, you run lean and BOOM! there goes a piston, or worse.

Your transmission, the accord transmissions from what I've gained are all right for their stock purposes but aren't that strong. I know Justin ( 88Turboaccord ) has been through a few 5spd manuals. So with these if you want to avoid that, perhaps rebuilding it with stronger internals may be a way to go. I don't know how the gen2 prelude ones are like, but a promising option is rebuilding the accord 5spd with the internals from the Integra. I wouldn't want to turbo an accord running the auto, quite frankly our auto's are pretty crappy, and weak. Plus 5spd manual is more fun...but if you want to go that route, then perhaps look into putting a high-stall torque converter and maybe rebuilding the transmission.

Next, the turbo you want, best to go T3, I reckon the Mitsubishi TC05 or TC06 would be a good option. Those are the turbos off the Australian spec Starion and Cordia. I got a TC06 on my other car, but a TC05 that spools a lot quicker, I think boost falls off though above 5500rpm on the 2ltr Starion, but it would be ideal for an accord.

Next a turbo manifold, since an aftermarket turbo kit was never developed for the accord, you need a custom made manifold, and they can get pricey depending on what you want. So get a few quotes.

Other things you need to look at, tricking the stock ECU as it doesn't like boost that can be done through by generally bleeding boost pressure off the MAP sensor through the use of check valves. But an option with more tunability is definitely an aftermarket computer, like a Haltech, Microtech, wolf3d, etc. Do some research.

And definitely look at trying to do a lot of the work yourself, you'll save plenty of cash.

Even though I'm not doing any serious work on the accord, my Starion is keeping me busy and I'm learning lots of good new shit, but if I've had to even get a half of it done by someone else I'd be up for some big $$$ already, and that's only for basic shit. Things like engine and turbo rebuilds, etc I wouldn't touch, not unless you REALLY know what your doing, and have all the right tools. Otherwise, leave it to someone who knows what they're doing, coz if you fuck up! well....you know.

So yeah...that's it.
I probably missed a few things, but if anything else, just ask the people on this board, Justin and Sean are the foremost turbo experts.

A20A1
08-15-2004, 06:01 AM
TURBO
A turbo is 2 turbines connected by a shaft, on in the exhaust stream, the other in the intake. Exhaust gasses going through the exhaust turbine cause it to spin, because both turbines are connected the intake side spins too forcing air into the intake. A header brings multiple pipes together into one pipe.

SUPERCHARGING VS TURBOCHARGING
Is having a supercharger work all the time really a good thing?
Superchargers take power from the crank to turn them, which would otherwise be sent to the wheels.
Turbos use the energy of the exhaust gas to turn them, which would otherwise be sent out the tail pipe and not used.
Each has their own advantages and disadvantages. For moving larger volumes of air superchargers are better.
The bigger a turbo is the longer it takes to spool up, superchargers don't have that problem.
A supercharger requires more boost to make the same amount of power as a turbo though because turbos don't drain power from the engine to turn.

AUTO VS MANUAL
It's actually better to have an auto box behind a turbo motor. Aside from the issues of the trans being able to withstand the torque the motor is putting out, the auto trans keeps the motor under load when it shifts, which keeps the turbo spooled up between shifts.
The turbo wont be spooled up at normal freeway driving. Exhaust gas volume and velocity are what spools up the turbo. Unless you drive down the freeway with the pedal to the floor the engine isn't going to have enough load on it to bring to turbo up to anywhere near full boost. As long as the turbo is properly sized to your motor then it will only take a fraction of a second to spool up anyway.

- Andy

A20A1
08-15-2004, 06:02 AM
.
.
.
Air Flow and Fuel Flow Calculators ::: by Jeff Lucius (http://www.stealth316.com/2-air-fuel-flow.htm)
.
.
.




Ok I know I posted the formula for sizing injectors but it was not accurate.
This one came out from "Honda/Acura performance" book by Sport Compact Car.
BSFC= brake specific fuel consumption ( how much fuel an engine requires for a given horsepower output. most naturally aspirated engines have a BSFC of about 0.5lb per horsepower-hour. that means that engine will consume 0.5lb of fuel per hour for each horsepower it makes. Turbocharged engines typically have a BSFC of 0.6 or higher then they are on boost. An injector's flow rating is based on continuous flow conditions, but most max out at 80% duty cycle, which is the accepted industry standard.

Flow= Horsepower x BSFC / # of Injectors x Duty Cycle

So, suppose you want to make 200hp with a naturally aspirated four-cylinder engine.
Flow= 200x0.5/4x0.8 Flow= 31.25lb/hr

To convert to CC/MIN here is the formula

Flow(cc/min) = Flow (lb/hr) x 10.5

They give two companies who make the injectors:
Python Injection and RC Engineering.

A20A1
08-15-2004, 06:03 AM
Posted By Smufguy
Here are a few questions I have
1) Why is your ECM kit for a turbo better than any standalone kits? Like, is there any new things that u have in there?
Better, that's hard to say better. define better. It does lots of drivability thing that the standalones don't. Not to mention its about 1/3 the price. I doubt MOTEC devoted millions in research to build a better box. get my point now. oh and parts are easy to find. almost any part store in America stocks everything in the kit you'd ever need.


2) What exactly is your EFI package do? Like is it a separate GM ECU that gets plugged into the stock ECU connectors?
NO, I modify a distributor and have the GM ECM control the timing electronically. also I don't use any of the stock EFI part except for the TPS. you will also be removing the vacuum box and any extra wiring that bothers you. you only need to keep a few things. Alternator wiring; Fan wiring; Temp sender to the dash: and the Oil pressure sender to the dash. Everything else can go.


3) Also you made a thread about the files available for customizing, but the files don't work. as in the link does not work. So how do I run it to the Computer? IS it graphical interface or is it just a DOS outlook program?
It's a GUI program that interprets the binary code into engineering units EI degrees of spark etc. File will be up shortly along with a tuning guide


4) On the question of magnetic pick up, why is yours $500? Does it have just the magnetic wheel and the pick up sensor right?
I'm not sure where you got that price. It's included in the DIS kits that I have discontinued to move forward to coil on plug.


5) My goal is to have a fast STREET LEGAL car. I Have to pass inspection with NJ state laws and I wanna know if your kit will make it like that?
Well that's a good question. If you take the time to tweak the ECM properly there no reason you can pass a tailpipe test. as for a visual inspection you should keep the catalyst in place and they don't check under your hood so you shouldn't have any troubles. IF nox2 emissions are a concern let me know and ill help you work out the EGR parameters in the ECM to get that working to.


6) About the Engines. As of now, I am planning on using my stock block to boost it up to 200whp no more. So that wont mess anything up right?
Ahh, I'm not going to guarantee you will not or will blow up your engine. there are some many factors involved. ill tell you the truth. you can I have gotten 225whp out of these engines stock. but you might not have my luck


7) How is the heat production of a T3/T4 turbo inside the engine bay? I am planning on Thermo wrapping the header and the exhaust turbine of the turbo. Is it advised? Also I am going to get the fans run constantly and get two big fans and ditch the condenser fan?
If you ran my turbo kit you'd be ditching both of the fans and going with a single 10-inch model. there is room for a 12 inch though if the charge pipes are configured properly. As for heat production our manifold does a really good job keeping the heat inside of itself. A t3/t4 is complete overkill on anything under 400hp.


8) What are the sensors that I need for the turbo upgrade? as far as I know ECT, MAP, MAT, O2, TPS, exhaust gas temp, and cylinder head temp. These are the ones I feel like are crucial except for the cylinder head temp that I just wanna monitor?
Well there is an interesting thing to think about. The GM ECM has a lot of built in temperature compensation, knock detection the list goes on. and its built that way to protect the engine from knuckleheads like us who have to have every last bit of the 50000hp we can squeeze out of it. As for sensors GM 2 bar map sensor, knock, TPS ECT,IAT,02 and the input from the ignition module cover it.


9) I am gonna be running a FMIC with some or more custom work to the bumper brace and the bumper grill itself, I got no problem with that.
My main concern is the heat generation and the working of the ECM. Thanks for replying and hope u get better? Well if you play your card right and you need my help I'm willing to give it when you call or email. I'm sure we can work through the tuning process and get you emission compliant.


PS. Do you have any more pics of the turbo A20 fitted with the Production Turbo parts? Also got a dyno chart or a flow chart of the car and the exhaust manifold? Thanks.
I keep all dyno results tightly held to my chest. there part to work with. what you make out of them is your own handiwork. I can tell you they are capable of producing over 400hp if that what your asking.

A20A1
08-29-2004, 02:29 PM
Q: What do I need and how much does it cost for turbo?
A:


Thanks Justin ( 88turboaccord ) !
This will give you a rough idea.

First off you will need these parts

Custom Manifold $400-$600
T-3 turbo Used/Rebuilt $250
Custom Piping $250
Intercooler--Cheap route maybe $100 for a used fender well one.. The right way approx $700 for a good one like mine
Injectors 290cc peak and hold Used--$50-$75
Fuel pump $175
Vortech FMU 12:1 rise/rate Used $75-$100
Blow off valve $210
Manual boost controller Used $75
exhaust 3" Downpipe $400 includes 3" flex and cat
Adj. fuel regulator $85
Boost Gauge $25-$75
Oil Pressure Gauge $25-$120
Turbo timer used $100
Filter $50
Silicon connectors $75
Getting the oil return line welded for the oil pan $50
The oil return line $45
Wastegate Used $150
Ignition Used $175-$225

This is the cheap route with all the parts you should have..
Then if you want to get into the motor, clutch, tranny, computer, better fuel delivery, it get real expensive...

so all and all look to spend approx. $3,000 which I find to be pretty cheap, but the you have to draw in the labor if you don’t look for the parts yourself, or if you don’t install them yourself... The main part is, you have to be willing to do most of the work...
If you have any more question pertaining to turbos, send a PM to 88turboaccord he's been thru it all.

A20A1
09-22-2005, 10:15 PM
Stuff to look up. Very usefull for those who want to turbo. This should get you guys started.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=248965 - truth about EGT's
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=221260 - propane injection
http://zoogle.zapto.org/wastegate.jpg - how to lower boost.
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=2410;sta rt=0 - Jeff's Tyrus Intercooler install CRX
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=2952 - lowering boost (carb spring, jeff)
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=989 - making manifold (shortyz)
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=1562;sta rt=0 - mezbo's manifold
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?board=1;action=display;threadid=1438;sta rt=0 - jeffs air to water.
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=2450 - a/r
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=3363 - calculating intercooler
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=3361 - testing WG
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/forum/index.php?board=2;action=display;threadid=3359 - lowering audi WG.
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=373528&page=2 - chipping
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=366319 - clutch install
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=67146 -oil return
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=109160 -oil return line setup
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=114490 -oil return line parts
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=71999 -where to weld oil return
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=119100 -oil return line
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=119539 -oil pan welding
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=119715 -oil pan welding
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=118687 -oil grade to use
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=118694 -ft for oil feed line
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=118807 -oil feed line
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=119681 -oil feed line
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=93550 -part for oil feed line
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=114436 -where to buy brass t for feed line
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=126335 -oil t question
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=125438 -another place to buy oil lines
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=131447 -oil feed line an/npt connector ?
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=134078 -feed diagram
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=133948 -oil bpst fitting again
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=144586 -oil feed line restrictor
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=155510 -oil leaks
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=158018 -oil feed 3' better
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=156571 -oil pan bolts
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=170223 -oil pressure readings
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=168084 -oil feed fitting
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=131450 -oil feed diagram
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=195068 -oil pressu
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=364948 -BSPT and NPT AN explanation. ***
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=365360 -install of walbro 255lph EF
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=122635 -drag 3 (to) coolant line?
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=116891 -closed loop turbo info
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=119724 -drag 3 turbo fitment (filing block)
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=119690 -vacuum source
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=94820 -closed loop
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=120814 -Drag3 downpipe
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=120867 -Drag3 + Tial connection
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=118699 -wastegate vacuum line
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=118767 -feul pump for drag 3
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=121442 -fittings (brass T on block)
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=123326 -blow off valve tightening
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=123925 -catalytic converter removal o2 sensor
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=124474 -'burning' in the turbo + blow off valve ?
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=124580 -drag 3 manifold boost spike issues
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=124662 -drag 3 tial fitment
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=151845 -closed loop dump tube
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=155616 -flexpipe issue
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=159889 -blow off valve adjusting/cleaning
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=163453 -egt probe tapping
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=167329 -o2 sensor bung
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=170498 -don't use tial gasket
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=175270 -intercooler direction
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=175277 -drag bolts suck

A20A1
09-22-2005, 10:16 PM
http://honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=373528 -map sensor explanation and chipping
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=206376 -bov greddy type s (loose)

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=120548 -hondata install (solder stuff)
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=98092 -hondata install heiarchy
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=121859 -hondata info on pumps

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=117300 -spark plugs
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=156273 -spark plugs (2)
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=116886 -changing plugs
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=117326 -flexpipe for good price
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=117733 -injectors, 440 or 550
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=119569 -guage for autometer
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=119591 -autometer guages
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=121452 -aero fpr
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=119884 -best FPR?
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=118885 -place to buy aem fpr
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=122590 -(installing) aeromotive fuel regulator
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=86051 -removing/installing intank fuel pump
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=120889 -profec b install
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=116651 -Radiator fans
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=119819 -diff between mechanical/electrical gauges
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=117513 -turbo XS boost controllers and tial wastegates
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=122396 -block guard
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=107030 -rc 440 injector polarity
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=82211 -rc 440 after hondata install
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=121452 -aeromotive fpr part #
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=125639 -hks ssbv clip
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=153531 -more hks bov install
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=125852 -carsound cat part #
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=92570 -turbo timer relay
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=128321 -turbo timer wiring
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=132485 -radius rods
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=63095 -rear seat removal
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=133644 -injector fitment
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=104940 -thermal to cat issues
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=136680 -egt guage stuff
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=137223 -which runner to tap for egt
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=55987 -aem fpr against strut bar
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=139706 -tools to carry
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=140003 -base fuel map
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=140774 -bleeding coolant
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=156073 -js safeguard
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=168470 -js safeguard, who is using
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=160428 -summit part
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=170160 -9psi, raise static fuel + retard timing
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=170821 -wires to tap for guages
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=171397 -c clamp pliers for hks bov
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=171314 -EGT temps
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=166449 -vacuum sources
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=175335 -assembling an fittings
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=176725 -oem fan clearance - move to right
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=193263 -greddy profec b

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=85987 -installing rc injectors
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=106033 -matching wires rc injectors
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=133644 -fitment of rc injectors
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=107030 -polarity does not matter
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=154935 -once installed
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=159623 -tips to install

A20A1
09-22-2005, 10:16 PM
turbo install http://coolazz.tripod.com/turbo.html http://home.attbi.com/~jeffrich/

injectors http://www.hstuners.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11436

resister wiring http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=441107

fuel pump http://www.theoldone.com/articles/fuelpump/

DIY boost controller http://www.geocities.com/chmwatson/FAQs/mbc.html

DIY Oil line kit http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=432769

Oil press sensor install http://www.theoldone.com/articles/oilpressure/

a/f gauge install http://www.rx-7.org/1stgen/airfuel.htm http://www.roadraceengineering.com/instructions/afmeterinstallinstructions.htm http://www.hstuners.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=826

boost gauge install http://www.seansa4page.com/mya4s/995/boostgauge/boostgauge.html http://www.carreview.com/projecteclipse%5Eboostgaugecrx.aspx http://www.seansa4page.com/mya4s/97/boost/boost.html http://www.roadraceengineering.com/instructions/vdoboostgaugeinstructions.htm