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View Full Version : Full-Race-style turboheader for A20 is born!!!



Oyvind Ryeng
08-19-2004, 01:08 AM
It's made by the user "silly sohc" on Honda-Tech. I'm sorry to say that I don't know anything about it, I have just learned about it. I have sent him an instant message where I asked him to market it here on 3Geez. I also don't know how much it will cost, but I'm GUESSING $600. Here is a Link (http://www.honda-tech.com/zerouser?cmd=viewprofile&id=999339601) to his user profile on Honda-Tech.

http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/280000-280999/280589_73_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/280000-280999/280589_74_full.jpg
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/4/web/280000-280999/280589_75_full.jpg


EDIT: I'm providing this contact info from Honda-Tech:
Jay Thornton
Kingston Ontario canada
[email protected]

A20A1
08-19-2004, 01:11 AM
Good find :D

I was going to make a manifold with that same design, but now it seems it's not an original... it's okay though, I'll probably do something similar to the civic manifold he made... but have the tubes come off #4 and #3 and make the turbo flange centered between them and face down, then just extend tubes form #2 and #1 to meet the flange. The wategate will be centered between #4 and #3 but be on top, maybe angled towards the radiator some... :D

If he PM's you back let us know... his work is good so it will certainly put me out of buisness if he does decide to make them. :sadwave:

A20A1
08-19-2004, 01:18 AM
Damn that guy turbo's everything... lol :D

http://www.cardomain.com/memberpage/280589

thegreatdane
08-19-2004, 05:05 AM
The blow off valve will be centered between #4 and #3 but be on top:

Then where you gonna put the wastegate? The intake? :nuts:

j/k :)


Looks real good!

dXsquared
08-19-2004, 08:31 AM
that guy lives 6 hours from me

Travis

Bloodlust
08-19-2004, 08:42 AM
Very nice. I might have to get me one when I am ready.

Robs89LXi
08-19-2004, 10:35 AM
Check out this thread. Lot's of good information.
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=956666

Realy like this design for a couple important reasons.
1. Longer runners for better low end torque.
2. Brings the turbo to a higher mounting point (oil drainage, clearing A/C)

Problem I see though would be spark plug access?

Robs89LXi
08-19-2004, 10:47 AM
I figure around 18, 90deg. elbows from McMaster-Carr at $5.30ea. = $95.40, collector from that dude (B18C1CYA) at $75 shipped, and flange from BMC for $30, the parts total should be around $250 (including T3 flange). Now, can anyone build one for around $150 labor to make it a $400 manifold :)?

A20A1
08-19-2004, 11:30 AM
Then where you gonna put the wastegate? The intake? :nuts:

j/k :)


Looks real good!


LOL, I was tired you know what I ment. :D

NXRacer
08-19-2004, 11:53 AM
i've heard that that guy at BMC takes F O R E V E R to make those flanges. He's some kid taking a shop class and uses his dad's CNC machine or something.

and that guy with that cardomain is CRAZY. i wanna be his friend! :lol:

AccordEpicenter
08-19-2004, 12:56 PM
i've heard that that guy at BMC takes F O R E V E R to make those flanges. He's some kid taking a shop class and uses his dad's CNC machine or something.

and that guy with that cardomain is CRAZY. i wanna be his friend!

Ditto NXRacer... Ive heard alot of people on the net whining about them being slow. I finished my 4-1 turbo mani made from sched 40 mild steel and i think itll flow very good... hopefully almost as good as seans, and the welds are strong and have good penetration but are a little on the fat side, and it is braced. Its 1.5" diameter tubing and it was a pretty big pain in the ass to fabricate but it looks like its gonna fit but be close. All the research ive seen seems to indicate that runner volume and collector flow play some of the biggest roles in making efficient power in the exhaust mani, and not soo much runner length per se... thats why log designs suck unless youre on a budget or are gonna upgrade later or dont care... a tubular design is much more efficient. Damn i need to get pics of it

NXRacer
08-19-2004, 01:05 PM
Damn i need to get pics of it
yeah you do!

Oyvind Ryeng
08-19-2004, 01:28 PM
What's with the cold responses? I really expected people to go temporary insane and carry torches, hold rallies, loot the town and shoot their guns in the air.

Coming back to the topic at hand, I'm sure this manifold will give greater gains than the POS Pacesetter when used on a N/A engine. Those relativily short primaries would probably give crazy top-end power.

Anybody e-mailed him for more info yet? I didn't, just IM'ed him on H-T.

NXRacer
08-19-2004, 02:00 PM
:nuts: you cant use that manifold on a N/A motor!

dXsquared
08-19-2004, 03:23 PM
yes u can... just put a down pipe where the turbo is supposed to go...

Travis

bullard123
08-19-2004, 04:25 PM
That thing loooks like a ram's horns! Thats a good find though.

Sean
08-19-2004, 05:39 PM
Check out this thread. Lot's of good information.
http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=956666

Realy like this design for a couple important reasons.
1. Longer runners for better low end torque.
2. Brings the turbo to a higher mounting point (oil drainage, clearing A/C)

Problem I see though would be spark plug access?


our header had zero drain issues good spark plug acess etc etc etc and works with all the stock running gear minus the fans. while that header looks really nice. i doubt that you could even run a stock radiator with it. nice peice. ill talk to the fab shop and see if they can do anything in the future with making ours equal length. moe changes updates etc.

silly sohc
08-20-2004, 03:08 PM
hey all,

PM's replied, thanks for the feed back..... signed up last night late. :)

A20A1
08-20-2004, 03:51 PM
Hey, welcome

I used your pics in the TURBO FAQ
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=37169
Hope you don't mind... oh I brightened them up a bit too. :D

silly sohc
08-20-2004, 05:53 PM
np :)

I noticed that some of you were wondering about the ps and spark plug positioning.... I was able to keep ps with the mani and still have room for the plugs to run.... I would recommend keeping them close to the valve cover. however, I did have to put a slight bend in the oil check stick so that it didn't interfear w/ the #1 runner.

guaynabo89
08-22-2004, 05:47 PM
oops double post

guaynabo89
08-22-2004, 05:48 PM
silly sohc


So what made you make a nice turbo manifold for the old a20?

Do you have one yourself or did you make it for somebody else, and what other mods go along with this manifold?

Elijah
08-22-2004, 06:39 PM
i've heard that that guy at BMC takes F O R E V E R to make those flanges. He's some kid taking a shop class and uses his dad's CNC machine or something.

and that guy with that cardomain is CRAZY. i wanna be his friend! :lol:


Did you see what he use's for manigmant on his civic at 15lb's of boost.

Elijah
08-22-2004, 06:48 PM
What is all done to the civic motor? I run a similer setup. There are some people here that say a FMU is a ghetto setup.But these people have NO expeirence with turbo.I have the same FMU as you and a MSD boost reatard and FPR and bigger pump.

AccordEpicenter
08-22-2004, 07:16 PM
What is all done to the civic motor? I run a similer setup. There are some people here that say a FMU is a ghetto setup.But these people have NO expeirence with turbo.I have the same FMU as you and a MSD boost reatard and FPR and bigger pump.

Thats adequate for lower boost... i think 12psi is ALOT to ask of stock injectors though

Elijah
08-22-2004, 07:49 PM
I have swaped to 330cc injectors.Well as of thursday the injectors and msd and boost controller will be in.As well as the turbo timer.If we cant tune it right at 12 psi then I will keep it a 10

silly sohc
08-22-2004, 08:23 PM
I made the a20 mani for a customer here in town... it inparticular is made for a .48 trim t-3. And allows the keeping of ps and full rad. At the moment I 'm making a mani for an audi engine in a VW (pretty cool, I post for those who are interested) . I usually make honda manis all the time D-B series mostly. As far as my civ goes I"m running 14-15 psi daily for about a yr now.
390 cc injectors
apexi for fuel control
vc2 split second box.
8.4:1 compression.
shot peened stock rods
255 pump walbro
ported head
2.5 dp...

Not like a rock
08-22-2004, 10:18 PM
Your up in Canada right? That's another A20A-T then? Man, we almost have as many turbo 3Gs as we have olympic medals.

Elijah
08-22-2004, 11:05 PM
So much for me being the only turbo a20 in Canada.Well I am for a moment atleast.

Bobb
08-23-2004, 01:08 PM
So much for me being the only turbo a20 in Canada.Well I am for a moment atleast.
HA ! Im lookin at doing that myself..... Was told a DSM Setup would work with a few mods..... Any Ideas ?


Bob

Hash_man_Se_i
08-23-2004, 08:09 PM
Wow, that looks awesome.... I would you consider making another manifold like that? and if so, how much would you want for it? I'm in Calgary, and may be able to find someone here to do it, but that looks damn good.

silly sohc
08-23-2004, 09:35 PM
HA ! Im lookin at doing that myself..... Was told a DSM Setup would work with a few mods..... Any Ideas ?


Bob

All pm's replied.
As for the DSM turbo idea I would say the stock turbo is too small.... just my .02.

bodym1
08-24-2004, 06:03 PM
The manifold pictured at beginning of thread MAY be coming up on e-bay shortly.It will also include a T3 turbo from a 85 benz 300 DL. No time to finish project :sad2:


Wanna buy a Project? Go Here (http://home.cogeco.ca/~praxus5)

Robs89LXi
08-24-2004, 07:12 PM
Hey, Bodym1, real nice work on the "Project". Show/tell us more about the front bumper; I really like the way it looks. What kind is that?

jonrichert
08-24-2004, 07:16 PM
not a bad lookin skyline you've got there bodym... diggin the tails

A20A1
08-24-2004, 07:42 PM
Skyline those are vette lights...

I like it though... but that spoiler is a little tiny up there when compared to the bumper... visual weight wise I mean... something like oldschool has would look good cause it sticks out over the back. IMO

Glad to see pics finally, I checked back in on that old thread but never saw any updates...

smufguy
08-25-2004, 07:44 AM
i have emailed and talked to him for a while and he is quite responsive to his emails and very helpful too. I cant wait to get enough money and give my final specs and design to him to get the manifold made. His prices are just right to fit our budget too. I can see him making a steady aftermarket turbo support for our cars with stock motor. Thanks for coming aboard Thornton.

NXRacer
08-25-2004, 07:51 AM
Wanna buy a Project? Go Here (http://home.cogeco.ca/~praxus5)

OMG the triple headlight beast is aliiiiive. I remember seeing that AGES ago and never hearing anything after. too bad its not completely finished.

Robs89LXi
08-25-2004, 08:45 AM
i have emailed and talked to him for a while and he is quite responsive to his emails and very helpful too. I cant wait to get enough money and give my final specs and design to him to get the manifold made. His prices are just right to fit our budget too. I can see him making a steady aftermarket turbo support for our cars with stock motor. Thanks for coming aboard Thornton.

Hey man, so you've been talking to that dude about building a header? Great! I hope it works out and ends up being a good product. I'm still a few months away from buying one, but it will be nice to know that this might be a good option for me. Keep us informed on how it works out.
By the way, just how much stock stuff are you hoping to keep on your car? I mean radiator, cooling fans, A/C? These are the usual problem areas for fitment, and that is the big thing I keep runing into with mine. Being down here in Texas, I can't give up on any of that.

bodym1
08-25-2004, 05:54 PM
Hey, Bodym1, real nice work on the "Project". Show/tell us more about the front bumper; I really like the way it looks. What kind is that?


I strongly advise NOT to do this body kit,extensive reworking is required

2" out of center of bumper
4" extension of bumperends (rear)
reworked sideskirts (back half extended....front half shortened
Front bumper fits but needs minor trimming

ive got pics somewhere of process

But.....if u want to give a shot,

89-91 Prelude ED Type Demon Front Bumper,ED Type Xtreme Rear Bumper,
ED Type Demon Side Skirts all from extreme dimensions



P.S. Thornton Knows his Shit, He is well known here for his turbo work

silly sohc
08-25-2004, 08:11 PM
Hey man, so you've been talking to that dude about building a header? Great! I hope it works out and ends up being a good product. I'm still a few months away from buying one, but it will be nice to know that this might be a good option for me. Keep us informed on how it works out.
By the way, just how much stock stuff are you hoping to keep on your car? I mean radiator, cooling fans, A/C? These are the usual problem areas for fitment, and that is the big thing I keep runing into with mine. Being down here in Texas, I can't give up on any of that.


Thanks for the compliment(s) folks....
As for keeping A/C... well hmmmm. that's a whole separate challenge. for those you who may have surfed my cardomain in my sig you've seen some tight fits I"ve come across with that particular style of mani . I can tighten the radius of bends or use schedule material to make up a mani to fit but its more money....(more time). it also may depend if you are comfortable with modding surrounding items in the engine bay to the extent that I do sometimes.

smufguy
08-25-2004, 08:21 PM
Hey man, so you've been talking to that dude about building a header? Great! I hope it works out and ends up being a good product. I'm still a few months away from buying one, but it will be nice to know that this might be a good option for me. Keep us informed on how it works out.
By the way, just how much stock stuff are you hoping to keep on your car? I mean radiator, cooling fans, A/C? These are the usual problem areas for fitment, and that is the big thing I keep runing into with mine. Being down here in Texas, I can't give up on any of that.

hey rob, Well im keeping the power steering. The ac is already gone. but i might have to get the slim fans. But im keeping the stock radiator for sure. Im also getting a manifold made of my design, and this is after i find out where exactly i want my turbo to be. Im positive if the turbo sits low enough, it will be no problem cause it will tuck in the AC compressor space. But the only issue would be the oil drain from the turbo. If any, i might just put a sump pump to it and pull it out to circulate it. I dont know, i have to see, But still, im in the process of finding a good spot for the turbo to tuck in. i want it as close to the block as possible. ;)

Robs89LXi
08-26-2004, 06:12 AM
The power steering I could live without, I suppose, but the A/C is a must have, as well as good engine cooling, so radiator and fans are also big. I've seen where some guys have gone to a smaller Civic radiator, but I don't know it that would be enough for a 2.0L engine, especially turbocharged.
Does anyone know of, or done, an A/C relocation? This might be my only option, otherwise it's back to the sidewinder type manifold.

smufguy
08-26-2004, 06:28 AM
The power steering I could live without, I suppose, but the A/C is a must have, as well as good engine cooling, so radiator and fans are also big. I've seen where some guys have gone to a smaller Civic radiator, but I don't know it that would be enough for a 2.0L engine, especially turbocharged.
Does anyone know of, or done, an A/C relocation? This might be my only option, otherwise it's back to the sidewinder type manifold.

get a manifold made that looks like Sean's or looks like a log. Since u are concerened about heat, which i am glad that you do, dont worry about the sidewinder type. It will generate too much heat. Also, keep the full radiator, u need it. THe civic type radiator is either for race only or for civics, not a good idea for daily driving. BUt if u can find a radiator that is thick enough and is a single, i will be shocked. I was thinking of doing it so that i could have little more room for the turbo to sit and also will be easier for it to cool.

For me, since the compressor and the condensor and all the lines gone, there is a lot of air flow for it. The other add on that is a must, is locking hoodpins. The stock hook lock mechanism would interfear with the FMIC, if u plan to run one. Also, dont forget to run an external oil cooler. And me, im gonna rum oil and pwr steering cooler.


PS: I have heard of people running electric power steering pumps (like the new SI). I would like to do that if possible. That would clear up a lot more room too.

AccordEpicenter
08-26-2004, 01:24 PM
The power steering I could live without, I suppose, but the A/C is a must have

you pussy



The other add on that is a must, is locking hoodpins. The stock hook lock mechanism would interfear with the FMIC, if u plan to run one.
not nessescerily, my fmic fits with the stock hood latch unmodified.

smufguy
08-26-2004, 03:53 PM
not nessescerily, my fmic fits with the stock hood latch unmodified.

how big is your FMIC? Im taking my latch out cause im having problems with my latch release. Its zip-tied to get the tension right, but its still a problem. Besides, here in nj where i live and around, we have buncha cars broken into and engines withi their oil cap taken out and valvetrain filled with sugar. Thats some sick shit, but i have had two guys who run a turbo VW and a civic loose their motor because of this.

Robs89LXi
08-26-2004, 05:11 PM
you pussy

Ha! Easy for you to say, living up there in NY. A/C is a must down here, and I'm gonna have to find a way to work around it, or relocate it.

smufguy
08-26-2004, 06:53 PM
Ha! Easy for you to say, living up there in NY. A/C is a must down here, and I'm gonna have to find a way to work around it, or relocate it.

wish they made electric compressors. :( time to invent one ain?

Robs89LXi
08-26-2004, 06:57 PM
Maybe I ought to get one of them little oscillating fans that sit on the dash, huh? :)
Naw, I've always believed, "where there's a will, there's a way". Even if it means having to use a huge hood scoop to make more room for a top mount turbo manifold!

AccordEpicenter
08-26-2004, 07:10 PM
Ha! Easy for you to say, living up there in NY. A/C is a must down here, and I'm gonna have to find a way to work around it, or relocate it.


LOL yeah im just messin about that... If its in the 80s its warm here... so bye bye a/c


Aluminum Front Mount Intercooler - 31x6.5x2.75
2 1/2" inlet/outlet. Internally finned

http://www.geocities.com/speedpartsrus/catalogicpics.jpg

www.speedpartsrus.com

silly sohc
08-26-2004, 07:16 PM
I find long IC's work quite well... I"ve been running a 30x9x2.5 for a while, in the fall I can get he frost goin on the cold side. I come arcoss the cores often @ 30"x5-6" x2"

Robs89LXi
08-26-2004, 07:41 PM
not nessescerily, my fmic fits with the stock hood latch unmodified.

You got any pics of it mounted?

Ludi Mali
08-26-2004, 07:59 PM
would it be possible to put 2 civic radiators one in front of the other, and just run the coolant through both, the 2nd one wouldn't provide full cooling, but its better than nothing. not sure of the space, just hypothesizing from work.

silly sohc
08-26-2004, 08:51 PM
would it be possible to put 2 civic radiators one in front of the other, and just run the coolant through both, the 2nd one wouldn't provide full cooling, but its better than nothing. not sure of the space, just hypothesizing from work.

I"ve run the thicker stock Del Sol rad from the b16 engine on a prelude and it cools things out fine.

Robs89LXi
08-26-2004, 09:16 PM
I"ve run the thicker stock Del Sol rad from the b16 engine on a prelude and it cools things out fine.

Yeah, but was that on a turbocharged engine, and was that in a real hot part of the world?

silly sohc
08-26-2004, 09:43 PM
Oh for sure we don't get the temps southern states do in Canada. but yes I have used the small rad in turbo setups... civic's w/ b16 turbo's round here its common, but the prelude was a once only w/ turbo. seems to work fine so far.

Robs89LXi
08-26-2004, 09:49 PM
What do you think about what I said earlier about a top mount manifold? You know, the type that has the runners drop down from the head flange, then curve back up to the turbo flange and the turbo then sits on top of that? Could that be done tight enough to keep the radiator and fans?

silly sohc
08-26-2004, 11:03 PM
The only problem I can think of would be the dp placement... If I remember correctly you've got around 8.5" to play with between the full rad and the head flange. All the curls of the runners may get in the way underneath. The audi/VW frankenstein swap I"m doing now has the same issue but with the firewall. Of course if you use a shorty mani it may not be such an issue.

Robs89LXi
08-26-2004, 11:47 PM
Okay, I'm all but out of ideas here. I HAVE to keep the radiator, fans and A/C, so maybe I need to go back to my original plan of using a sidewinder style. A couple of people have said this causes too much heat (though I don't see how it would be any more than your rams-horn type), and there is a problem with bracing. I'm sure I could figure out a way to brace it though, so what are your thoughts on this type? Here is an example of what I'm talking about.
http://www.imagestation.com/card/compose.html?greeting=engine&id=4216908428&_cart_=908199505
Here is another angle:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid117/p8276af1826b1d2cd10447f4aaae862b3/f89fc873.jpg
Here is a good angle to show radiator clearance (shown w/ Civic rad.):
http://keruh.com/3gz/accordtheory5.jpg

silly sohc
08-28-2004, 02:53 PM
Okay, I'm all but out of ideas here. I HAVE to keep the radiator, fans and A/C, so maybe I need to go back to my original plan of using a sidewinder style. A couple of people have said this causes too much heat (though I don't see how it would be any more than your rams-horn type), and there is a problem with bracing. I'm sure I could figure out a way to brace it though, so what are your thoughts on this type? Here is an example of what I'm talking about.
http://www.imagestation.com/card/compose.html?greeting=engine&id=4216908428&_cart_=908199505
Here is another angle:
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid117/p8276af1826b1d2cd10447f4aaae862b3/f89fc873.jpg
Here is a good angle to show radiator clearance (shown w/ Civic rad.):
http://keruh.com/3gz/accordtheory5.jpg


Yeah certainly a heat producer but you've got the right idea. I would probably brace turbo and the mani to the tranny/block.... and get an engine dampener too. the more you make the exaust sytem unified w/ the engine the better... less stress and twisting involved. Tag the down pipe to the back of the block too. Theres a lot of leverage back there for the down pipe to work against the turbo when the engine is twisting.

Robs89LXi
08-28-2004, 05:14 PM
Okay, thanks for the info. Now, could you build something like that out of say 304 stainless, and about how much would it cost? Don't worry, not putting in an order here (not yet anyway), but just interested to know if it could be done, and for how much.

silly sohc
08-30-2004, 06:07 AM
well I did some thinking and I have come to the estimate of about $12-1300 CDN good 304 is pricey. And it's certainly something I wouldn't rush.