Exhaust Problem

[AccordAddict]

Heh, i kinda have an exhaust problem ive had since i bought the car. the problem is: when i rev it up it sounds nice and smooth but when i let off the gas and the rpm goes down it kinda sputters ya know? and then it drops down to zero and back up to 1k. whats up with that, is that normal? the only code the ECU is throwing me is a code 12, EGR Valve which im blocking off tommorow. Does anyone know the problem or is this normal?

[Mike's89AccordLX]

Hope your ready for you car to run like crap once you block that off. ECU's don't respond very good when they don't receive signals to help make your car run. It will probably try to adjust the timing on it's own if you remove it.

[AccordAddict]

so it will not be good if i block it off??? so my best bet would be to replace it or something right? and also do you know why my exhaust is sputtering when the gas is released? is that normal?

[HondaBoy]

you sure you got 2 1/4 in piping? it may be other things, but it sounds like you have too little back pressure. that may not be it though. have you set your timing correctly? if its off either way it can cause that and sometimes dieseling, thats when you turn the car off and the motor still goes for a second too long. my timing was off and caused that sort of thing, its worth checking if you can do it.

[AccordAddict]

which timing? ive never adjusted the timing (on the timing belt right?). maybe its off from the old owner? i dunno how to check my timing belt but i hear its a lot of trouble to install a new one. but what about advancing the timing is that easy? and yes i got 2 1/4 piping yesterday but it did this before and after i got the piping so.. its been there since i bought it. and did you say too little back pressure? maybe the cat or the header is clogged lol or has a hole somewhere... dunno.

[Mike's89AccordLX]

How can I explain this so you don't get confused???? Ok example: If you have a header, straight pipe, and exhaust system and a freeflowing muffler. You will actually lose hp.

There's positive and negative pressures going in and out of your exhaust system. And if there's not enough back pressure those negative pressure pulses can affect the cars performance. This is why you buy a flowmaster muffler and not some cheap muffler. Flowmaster is handsdown the best performance muffler to get. Don't be dumb and get a fart cannon like everyone else. I had one and when I put my dynomax muffler on my low end torque was improved quite a bit. Now I have enough back pressure where it doesn't hurt performance. I don't have a flowmaster yet but I will. I have done the research on the mufflers and asked many former racers. I said racers not ricers. Many domestic racers use flowmaster b/c they are the best. Flowmaster has import mufflers just for 4 cylinder compact cars. Flowmaster 40's and 45's. You can get other models but these are by far the best performance ones for our type of automobile.


-Mike

[AccordAddict]

how big are the tips?

[Mike's89AccordLX]

The tips aren't what make your car fast. You can put your big ricey tips on a good muffler like I know you would.


edit: Thanks for catching my typo. At least I know one person listens closely to what I have to say.

[ehulst]

you mean AREN'T what make the car fast...not are

[Mike's89AccordLX]

Here I will even search for you again b/c I know you will just ask where to get flowmasters.

Ebay: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7914925087&category=33636

Summitracing: www.summitracing.com

You don't need a Tip for these mufflers b/c they will have the nice deep tone and performance. Like I said before tips don't make it fast just annoying. These mufflers look really nice without tips I have a dynomax muffler and it looks similar and I think it looks 100 times better than a big fart cannon that does nothing but cause headaches over time.

[ehulst]

what about fireball? thought those were good ones or those to ricey, or if u got the time and money and the mind to cut something expesive up get a GReddy Evolution catbac and just cut the muffler off and have a muffler shop put it on with better pipe.....But i'm just a GReddy person

[Mike's89AccordLX]

I wouldnt spend the money on a greddy system just for the muffler. fireball ones I dont think are as good as the flowmaster. I spent $130 on my Arospeed muffler 3 years ago and I threw it away and love my dynomax muffler and even that's nothing compared to flowmaster.

[A20A1]

I have a 2" VW muffler :D and a 2" chrome tip...

there are different types of back pressure... one is flat out restriction like poor flowing exhaust tubes and exhaust choke points which you don't want... this is what most inexperienced people refer to, when they talk about back-pressure.

The other is the pressure waves
Positive pressure is the wave that travels from the head to the exhaust tip... the negative pressure wave is created afterward and travels back thru the exhaust to the head... negative pressure wave helps scavenge out exhaust... higher positive pressure (backpressure) means more scavenging but also has more restriction in terms or tube diameter because smaller tubes have a higher pressure... larger tubes have a lower pressure and thus lower scavenging effect.

You want to increase power and decrease pumping work the engine goes thru by decreasing restriction to help get more gasses out... without loosing too much high pressure wave velocity and scavenging. So again, you want to find a good balance for your displacement and rpm.

[AccordAddict]

heh i just dont like those mufflers with the 1-2 1/2 inch tips, they look too stock. i like the 4+ inch tips, but your saying the big ricey mufflers reduce HP? i dont see how... are there any mufflers with 4 inch or higher tips that are good and increase HP? (that are under $200)

[A20A1]

http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/cgi-bin/flowmaster/952062.html
Nice sound clips of the 60...

LOL you can click on two of them and get an inside and outside sound clip at the same time... sounds kewl.

Mine still sounds better... most of the powerful sound comes from a good header. So if you have a good flowing header your sound will change... I had run the 3.0 or 3.5 inch collector and open header and when at idle it was really nice deep and agressive... the irregular pops and such was expected, it was just too loud to run without a muffler.

I stuck on the mini "2" which was a major increase in restriction... plus I stuck it on backwards... but it sill flowed great... and I didn't loose much power up top and gained a little on the low end.

I'm sreiously thinking about that 60... I know 60 was listed for the 89 accord back in the day when you look at the fold out chart they give you.

[A20A1]

you can add on a 4" tip if you want... it wont do a thing for you but it will look like you have a bigger muffler is all.
So go ahead and do it.

[A20A1]

here you go
http://www.flowmastermufflers.com/cgi-bin/flowmaster/accessories.html

more tip selection can be found on other site... just type in:

4 inch stainless tip

in google
and you'll get plenty of site... look for the correct inlet diameter to match your mufflers outlet diamter.

[ehulst]

The tips aren't what make your car fast. You can put your big ricey tips on a good muffler like I know you would.


edit: Thanks for catching my typo. At least I know one person listens closely to what I have to say.


No prob man..just helpin out around the board...tryin to fit in.....

[A20A1]

heh i just dont like those mufflers with the 1-2 1/2 inch tips, they look too stock. i like the 4+ inch tips, but your saying the big ricey mufflers reduce HP? i dont see how... are there any mufflers with 4 inch or higher tips that are good and increase HP? (that are under $200)

Closing the throttle decreases incoming air, even though your exhaust still wants to pull more air in... it can't so you get the pop. I explained it more and probably better in a different thread concerning exhaust poping...

The larger diameter and also leaks in the exhaust will also cause some popping
.
.
.
Sleepers use the smallest possible muffler or sometimes have hidden cut-outs...
we don't flow enough exhaust to make a bigger muffler nessecary... 4" tip is just the tip... the tip is the transition from the exhaust pipe to the atmostshere... a good sized tip will give you a good transistion which will help in some small way to give a little hp... nothing worth worrying about...

Collector diameter is more important... but you wont be running open header.

anyways... the inside of the muffler is what matters... if you have a 2.25" pipe then you should get a 2.25" muffler inlet and outlet. You can run 2.50" but it wont be any better off.
If you get a basic muffler like the 60 with no tip on it from the factory, it will let you put on any style tip you want... and with the right adapter... any size tip you want.

[A20A1]

If you see a large diameter muffler, it could be that the car has larger displacement or is turbocharged...

here are some other mufflers more your taste...
overbooststore (http://www.overboost.com/obs/browse_subcat.asp?page=3&cat_id=2&cat_name=Exhaust+Systems&sc_id=8&sc_name=Mufflers)

here is a place with many tips styles
Tips (http://www.abtivan.com/obx/obx_mufflers_weldontips.htm)

and here are more tips
Tips2 (http://www.cardomain.com/shoplist~b~Borla~t~Universal+Muffler+Tips)

[Mike's89AccordLX]

Alright you are really confusing me AccordAddict, what do you want performance or showy crap that will make you slow? You obviously don't want to be fast just look like your Fast and Furious. God those movies made people like him think wings and big tips make a car fast. I'm sorry but I thought you actually wanted to have a fast car and not be just one of those kids with neon windshield washers. You could get a led muffler tip. :) I guess I'm done helping this poor young sap. He doesn't want to learn and obviously doesn't care about anything we say just so he gets his posts in.

But really if you want to have good parts and actually want to be fast listen to Mike and I. We have the knowledge and your still a kid. I hope you can understand this in a couple of years (hopefully sooner). We'll be here when you want to be serious about making hp.

-Mike

[A20A1]

I was providing you with an option that will flow good, sound good, and still give you the ability to add on a 4" or 5" tip.

[AccordAddict]

Ok first off, i dont like tips. you look like a fast and furious wannabe. looks like a newb sticking a tip on his stock rusted muffler to make it look like a real ricer 4" tip'ed muffler. i got the real thing, and now people say it makes my car slower when it cost $100+. so i guess its just a looks kinda thing. i understand that having the flowmaster muffler with the 2.25" diameter inside the muffler is what counts but it looks stock and im not going for that look, im going for show and go. One thing, i noticed when the guy at the muffler shop was putting my new pipes on, the 2.25" pipe slipped over the muffler inlet, which means the muffler must only have a 2" inlet, and wouldnt that cause a decrease in performance, or backpressure? i thought those had 3" inlets but i guess im wrong.

[AccordAddict]

This is the muffler i have: http://www.3aracing.com/showroom/product_info.php?cPath=21_34_90&products_id=381&osCsid=8bc352617e7152f6ba628d8e1e099f44

[Mike's89AccordLX]

Hey Addict, didn't you say this?



AccordAddict
DX User




Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: Alpharetta, GA
Vehicle: 1986 Accord Lx-i

Posts: 494 i'd say 2/3 go and 1/3 show. i dont belive in cars with all show and no go cuz thats just RICE all the way.

[Mike's89AccordLX]

I'm suprised you didn't get the simulated NOS bottle that they sell there.

[AccordAddict]

what do you mean? Not to be rude or anything but i dont appreciate you using my quote as your signature. and the mods on that post i did are old and my current ones are better. and yes, i did say i want 2/3 go and 1/3 show. i still like the muffler style AND have go with it but i dont wanna look like a Poser.

[AccordAddict]

AND ALSO im not into exterior neon lighting at all. i hate it.

[Mike's89AccordLX]

Well there's quite a few people that have quotes from you in their signatures. I don't see anything wrong with it. I mean if you find it offensive maybe you shouldn't have posted it in the first place.

[A20A1]

I can make a muffler and sell it for $1000
Cost is nothing
Construction is everything

Like I said tips are nothing but looks.

You got a 3A-Racing muffler they are a generic brand... they buy mufflers from a supplier and put their name on it... same with APC and R-Active. Same basic design pumped out to supply people (fast and the furious wannabies) with cheap mufflers.

I understand you like looks and performance... the fact is, a flowmaster has flowmaster stammped on the case... you can show anyone if you need to prove it... you can even add on their sticker if you feel that no one will nottice.

Most muffler shops use a Flare or some other tool to make a mouth at the end of one pipe to fit a pipe of the same diameter into it...

so a 2.25" pipe will be opened up to fit a 2.25" pipe inside of it.
This makes a cheap way to adapt/connect the pipes and usually is a stronger joint and lessens the chance for leaks... but it doesn't flow the best, but it's so far back on the exhaust I wouldn't worry.

[AccordAddict]

ok w/e fuck it. dont give a shit anymore. use my posts as your quotes... oh and also did you delete the rest of my mods to make me look stupid because at no point in time i had those two mods listed.

[AccordAddict]

oh, i saw these mufflers at the shop where i got my exhaust done and they had a bunch of "Borla" muffleres, those anygood? most of them are dual tips.

[Mike's89AccordLX]

Well if the inlet size was smaller than the actual pipe then it would create a bottle neck so it would in fact decrease the flow. But you wont see any lose in power. It won't be noticible on our cars.

[AccordAddict]

Did you delete part of my signature (in your quote) and just leave those two mods there? because at no point in time did i have those two specific mods listed.

[A20A1]

Does anyone read what I wrote... Mike and accord... they flared the end of the exhaust.

Mike stop quoting him, just leave it be...
it will save us from having him complain.

Accordaddict... what you have on now is what you like, that is all that matters... we are trying to point you in a different direction... Yes, Borla is a reputable company...

Some muffler companies have left quality and performance at the door just to have a product to sell to make a profit in a very good market.

Take your time and do research on boards like ours and on company sites... compare company claims to actual buyer feedback... make sure the buyer is making a well informed post and just isn't saying it's bad or good just because.

Flowmaster has a history and I've seen it used at tracks and on friends cars... and after all that I have read since then I can be sure that if i get one I will not be dissapointed.

[Mike's89AccordLX]

Well since the maximum signature is 260 characters I had to edit some more of the funny stuff out. There's nothing wrong with it I'm just paraphrasing what you said. Newspapers do it everyday.

So how long do you think it will take you to become a Se-i User on the board? You have made almost half the amount of threads I have and I've been a member for over 2 years. All we ask on here is you search. That is why most of the people on here find it amusing you put threads up all the time about old stuff that has been discussed many times. You just need to chill out a little and not be so post happy. It's obvious that you are, b/c you edited your post before and put the same thing you just wrote in this newer post above.

[AccordAddict]

so if i swapped the 3a for the borla that would be a better decision eh?

[AccordAddict]

thats cuz i didnt know if you would re read that post and notice the edit so i posted it so you could see it, sorry. yeah i search but some stuff isnt the exact same problem or question i have so i have to post.

[Mike's89AccordLX]

I just want to be honest with you. I'm a very happy person. I have no problems with answering questions. I just am a performance guy and don't like the showy stuff on the exterior. I just felt like you didn't care what Mike and I were saying and it got me a little upset. I don't have anything against you personally. And I think now that we got out what we needed to say it will be a lot smoother on the board. I appreciate you showing interest in your 3G and I hope that you want to learn what all of us have to teach. I was in your place once and hey now I'm one of the top ten auto mechanic students in MN. Well I'm off to bed. Good night.

[A20A1]

What you have now is a straight through packed muffler... you have to compare sound quality and construction to another straight through muffler

If the Borla you want is also a straight through packed muffler
Borla more then likely has a better construction
now you only need to look at the sound quality, sound is controlled by the design of the muffler and the materials used... the sound is preferrance.

Luckily you have your muffler on now... so what you can do is compare...
http://www.borla.com/uk.boomers/?cartID=2004082122191066.248.53.186
unfortunately they do not have sound clips...

Straight through mufflers will see little difference between how much they can flow... since the opening is usually standard between all straight through designs... however the packing and the construction of the area surrounding the packing effects the mufflers sound... also how thick the metal is... and the materials effect wieight... you'll see a few cheap knock-off mufflers that have a Carbon fiber wrap... and then you'll see real racing mufflers with full carbonfiber or titanium... those are ment to decrease weight.

When you start opening up your exhaust and intake and add more mods, you'll usually get louder and need more sound control... so a good chambered muffler will do more then a straight through, while still giving you good flow... no one saying you have to change mufflers... just be aware that not all mufflers are created equal... and that a mufflers job is to muffle the sound of the exhaust... not just be a pipe with a tip on it....
When you really want sound, quality, and performance you have to look past 3A and the other brands... and be ready to pay a little more but it will be worth it.

I have no idea how long the packing will last on the 3A... you can look around on boards for people that notice their exhaust getting louder or sounding different.

[AccordAddict]

yeah my dad says the reason most ricers get the straight threw mufflers with a single tip cuz it has better flow than the dual tips, thats why i got a single tipped straight through. The quality in all these mufflers look the same accept titanium is a different metal, those are expensive ones. i saw a nice one in pepboys thats titanium and it has a 4" tip straight through, dont know which brand i think neuspeed, dunno.