other ECM options [Archive] - Page 2 - 3geez.com - Classic Honda Accord & Prelude Forum

thegreatdane

07-31-2006, 10:10 AM

Yup, I'll have to get that wiring diagram sorted out to source the best place to put that diode. I don't want to hack the wiring too much and make it possible to return back to stock if necessary.

BTW, do you have your B20A running on an OBD1 ecu yet?

Yes I'm running a chipped P06 (converted to a P28 though just for the fun of it) obd1 ecu. And I have an Ostrich rom emulator so that I can real time tune with Crome.

carotman

07-31-2006, 10:30 AM

thegreatdane

07-31-2006, 11:17 AM

Do you mind to post the .BIN you're using here? I want to have a base ROM for my Dyno tune. If not I will understand but it sure would help alot of the guys with B20As!

And the funny thing is that I''ll be running a P06 that has been converted to P28 too. I'll be probably using it for my Civic and use a regular P06 in the Accord but the conversion process was fun.

Cool :) I cheated though and had someone else convert my P06 since I dont have any desoldering tool if that's what it's called :o

I could post a bin but I beleive it sucks for performance, I havent been able to tune the igntion properly yet. When I was on the dyno to dial it in, it just all went to hell because the computer that controlled the dyno was garbage. One of the bin's has nice driveability though, the other is a little rough but with more fuel.

ACCLUDE91

07-31-2006, 06:01 PM

If we can figure out how to get the code out of the A20 ECU (or b20 for that matter) and convert to non-vacuum advance dizzy, fine engine control is easy.

Bingo! I'm going to be using a B20 basemap on a P06 and a F22 dizzy & MAP.

I hope that make sense to you guys seriously considering doing this. If not, just ask and I'll try to explain anything I can.

EricW

10-12-2006, 07:19 PM

Where did you guys get the 6K resistor? The only place i have found is digikey and one auction on ebay.

thegreatdane

10-13-2006, 05:24 AM

I made my own resistor, ripped apart some electronics and found 6 1k resistors. voila lol.

guaynabo89

10-13-2006, 11:27 AM

Where did you guys get the 6K resistor? The only place i have found is digikey and one auction on ebay.

I bought a pack from them. They come like in a 5 pack. I dont know where the spare ones are though or else d just mail you one :(

EricW

10-16-2006, 10:36 AM

Well i just bought the resistor and diode from digikey I bought four extra of each so if anyone needs them I will probably have them in a week.

EricW

10-23-2006, 06:42 PM

I have found something interesting. Earlier today when i was looking at this and i thought that i had to change the diode box(from when i was carbed) to the speed sensor amplifier(from the efi cluster) but know I realized I am wrong after going over it again. The diode box from my carbed gauge cluster already connected A1 to C2 on the gauge cluster. So all I really had to do was add the 6k resistor to the wire from the speed pulsar to diode box and change the diode to a zener diode and i would have been finished.:uh:

Now I have to go back and change the speedometer and remove the speed sensor amplifier and replace it with the diode box. I went through all that trouble of disassembling the odometer and changing the mileage on it to not even need it.:uh: I didn't even have any problems with removing the needle and it not working correctly after i put it back on, I took a test drive to make sure. I did note a few differences in the speedometers from the fuel injected cluster to the carbed cluster mainly the circuit board on the side of the efi speedo that had a connector to the speed sensor amplifier.

Another good note is that the speed sensor amplifier circuit board did look exactly the same as the diode box. The difference was that the diode box only has a diode in the D3 slot on the circuit board with nothing else on the board except the yellow connector and the wire that connects to one side of the diode. The speed sensor amplifier had everything but the diode in D3. I will try to get some pics in the next few days to better explain what i just said.

Cliffs notes: Use the diode box from a carbed gauge cluster and replace the diode with a zener diode add a 6k resistor to the wire that comes out of it and connects to the speed pulsar.

carotman

10-23-2006, 08:38 PM

Maybe I missed something in the thread (it's too long anyway) but do you know the reason why some have an amplfier and some a diode box? I guess it's for cruise control function?!?

guaynabo89

10-24-2006, 09:54 AM

yeah I didnt use anything from the 87 lxi's speed sensor.

I just used the speed pulser output off the cluster, teed in the 6k resistor with power and sent that out to the ecu, and I put a zerner diode between the cruise contorl unit and the t of the diode to keep the ground pulses flowing correctly.

I verified that the pulses were the correc ones by comparing them to the speed sensor pulses on my 91 accord.

When I finally make it to the dyno the aem tuning software lets you see what mph the ecu is seeing and I will compare that to the cable driven speedo in the dash si I know how well this mod works and if its as accurate as it should be.

thegreatdane

10-24-2006, 12:08 PM

It is very accurate according to my crome datalogging, ~1mph difference between dashboard and datalogging.

Are you running an AEM EMS now guaynabo?

EricW

10-24-2006, 02:24 PM

Maybe I missed something in the threas (it's oo long anyway) but do you knoe the reason why some have an amplfier and some a diode box? I guess it's for cruise control function?!?

According to the 87 accord manual the carbed accords have diode boxes and the efi have the amplifier. There where some differences in the speedometer also. I will try to get some pics tomorrow after i get off work.

guaynabo89

10-24-2006, 05:31 PM

Are you running an AEM EMS now guaynabo?

Its in there but the base map thats in the aem software for the teg/civics accord/preludeswont keep the car running. It will idle for like 5 seconds and die. i tried looking around to figure out why exactly it wont hold an idle but couldnt find exactly what to try to keep it runnig. I'll just take it with the stock p75 I got to the dyno and swap the aem when I get theere. Im hoping the tuning will come soon. i just have to give the car a tune up and its off to the dyno.:D

EricW

10-29-2006, 01:10 PM

Ok here are the pics of the speed sensor amplifier and the diode box.

Both
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/ericrw165/OBD1%20swap/th_Speedsensoramplifieranddiodebox.jpg (http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/ericrw165/OBD1%20swap/Speedsensoramplifieranddiodebox.jpg)

Speed sensor amplifier
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/ericrw165/OBD1%20swap/th_speedsensoramplifier2.jpg (http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/ericrw165/OBD1%20swap/speedsensoramplifier2.jpg)

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/ericrw165/OBD1%20swap/th_speedsensoramplifier.jpg (http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/ericrw165/OBD1%20swap/speedsensoramplifier.jpg)

Diode box
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/ericrw165/OBD1%20swap/th_DiodeBox.jpg (http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/ericrw165/OBD1%20swap/DiodeBox.jpg)

The back of both clusters
http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/ericrw165/OBD1%20swap/th_Clusters.jpg (http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/ericrw165/OBD1%20swap/Clusters.jpg)

In the pic the speedometer for the speed sensor amplifier is in the cluster that is labeled "diode box" since it Is the cluster that originally had the diode box.

There is also another diode(labeled in pic with) that i didn't notice until later that is in line with there speedometer on the A2 circuit.

I have now switched back to the diode box, but when i had the speed sensor amplifier installed the cruise control did maintain the selected speed better than the diode box. So it has me thinking about switching back to the speedometer with the speed sensor amplifier.

guaynabo89

10-29-2006, 03:42 PM

so are you running your engine obd1 yet?

EricW

10-29-2006, 07:14 PM

so are you running your engine obd1 yet?

Hopefully tomorrow will be the day. I just have to run the wires for the distributor and O2 sensor, install the diode and resistor. The only problem I see at the moment is I will have to do something to reroute the upper radiator hose and either buy a 4 wire O2 or run open loop until i get one.

thegreatdane

10-30-2006, 09:15 AM

Its in there but the base map thats in the aem software for the teg/civics accord/preludeswont keep the car running. It will idle for like 5 seconds and die. i tried looking around to figure out why exactly it wont hold an idle but couldnt find exactly what to try to keep it runnig. I'll just take it with the stock p75 I got to the dyno and swap the aem when I get theere. Im hoping the tuning will come soon. i just have to give the car a tune up and its off to the dyno.:D

Nice, so you got the 1040? Can you use the base maps for the 1081U (88-89 prelude)?

guaynabo89

10-30-2006, 11:20 AM

yea i have the 1040. it only has two maps in the files for na cars. one is a civic/teg which a d16 was used for this base map an the accord/prelude which an h22 was used for that one.

EricW

10-30-2006, 06:54 PM

Any one know what the green wire on the f22 distributor should be hooked to?

I've got everthing in but i can't get it to crank. I have no spark.

guaynabo89

10-30-2006, 08:35 PM

the two wire plug has the black/yellow which is power and the blue which is the coil negative/tach

The 8 plug one has 6 wires for the three sensors and then it has one that goes to the ecu (ICM) and the other is the grounding for the shielded wire of the sensors.

Hope that helps.

If not try rotating your distributor around. maybe your timing is slightly off.

EricW

10-30-2006, 08:41 PM

I've tried moving the distributor but if it was sparking at all the gas already in the cylinder would ignite. I put a timing light on the #1 wire and it didn't flash. Do you think the MSD ignition would have any thing to do with it.

EricW

10-30-2006, 08:56 PM

What did you do with the radio noise condenser?

guaynabo89

10-30-2006, 09:02 PM

I've tried moving the distributor but if it was sparking at all the gas already in the cylinder would ignite.

Not if the spark plugs were wet from cranking extensively.

I put a timing light on the #1 wire and it didn't flash. Do you think the MSD ignition would have any thing to do with it.

Maybe

Try putting the lead on the other plug wires to see if it lights. Check your gun to make sure its in perfect wrking order

EricW

10-30-2006, 09:35 PM

Tried two different timing lights neither flashed. I'm quiting for the night and will try again tomorrow or wednesday when i have more time. I will start by unhooking the MSD and going back to the stock ignition. I was throwing code 20(ELD) and 41( Primary oxygen sensor heater).

Legend_master

10-31-2006, 09:00 AM

So what wire at the ECU harness is the speed sensor wire for the factory A20. I have not been able to get my Vtec to engage properly due to no speed signal to the ECU. The ECu must register 20MPH or over to engage Vtec. I dont have Cruise control so I jsut want to plug it right up.

guaynabo89

10-31-2006, 10:25 AM

on my 87 lxi its b18 for the vss

eric

Is your distributor new? If not that might be something to look into.

Legend_master

10-31-2006, 11:10 AM

on my 87 lxi its b18 for the vss
eric
Is your distributor new? If not that might be something to look into.

So if I wire it at the ECU do I have to use the resistor or will it work without it. I tried reading through the thread, but I got lost on the second to last page.

Legend_master

10-31-2006, 11:42 AM

Ok the 86 LX-i must be different, because I do not even have a b18 wire. THere is a b20, but no b18.

guaynabo89

10-31-2006, 01:28 PM

So if I wire it at the ECU do I have to use the resistor or will it work without it. I tried reading through the thread, but I got lost on the second to last page.

no youll still have to add the resistor. but you wire it in to the speed pulser output of the dash cluster. heres what I did. I could have sworn I posted these pictures befroe but I couldnt find them in any thread so here it goes again.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/sinnedone/DSC000171.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v499/sinnedone/vss.jpg

Legend_master

10-31-2006, 01:30 PM

The 86 equiped with the BT motor has a completely different setup. I am about to post up the pics in the next min or so.

Legend_master

10-31-2006, 01:34 PM

Here you go

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Legend_Master/DSCF0005-3.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Legend_Master/DSCF0006-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Legend_Master/DSCF0007-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Legend_Master/DSCF0008-2.jpg

Here is the inside of the white box. Can you graph this for me

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Legend_Master/DSCF0009-2.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Legend_Master/DSCF0010-1.jpg

The white box has 4 wires going out of it and I am about to make a diagram of how they are run.

Legend_master

10-31-2006, 01:50 PM

Here is how the wireing goes. I assume the green plug went into the cruise control unit under the hood, but it has been awhile since I had that.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v667/Legend_Master/VSSwiring1.jpg

guaynabo89

10-31-2006, 01:54 PM

Are you positive that you dont have a wire at B18 in your ecu harness? Seems kind of odd since the 86-87 were almost exactly the same.

Out of the small plug on the white box is the vss output c1 on the plug. Itll be either end of the plug. cut thet and splice it into the pulser output in A2 of the big rectangular plug that sits on an ange at the corner of the cluster.

I used all the wiring in the car to make the conections not the wiring on the gauge cluster itself.

guaynabo89

10-31-2006, 01:57 PM

Was your hatch carbed before?

Was your hatch auto or still is?

does the cable that goes to your b20 pin sit on either side of the yellow plug that goes into the white box on the gage cluster?

Legend_master

10-31-2006, 01:58 PM

Was your hatch carbed before?
Nope it was fuel injected. Is and was a 5 speed, b20 is the only yellow wire that runs to the ecu

Is there anyway to test and see if a signal is comeing from the VSS with a Multimeter while I am driving?

guaynabo89

10-31-2006, 02:06 PM

Legend_master

10-31-2006, 02:11 PM

do you have the 86 wiring diagrams? It looks like thats probably the vss signal. If it is just do what I did but use that wire for the vss out. cut it from the 7 pin plug on the white box and splice the 6 k resistor to it

No all the diagrams say the the 86 is the same as the 87. I figured out all this with the multimeter. I will give that idea a shot, and see if it works.

guaynabo89

10-31-2006, 02:15 PM

you can shoot me a pm if anything. if youd have aim it make it easier

EricW

10-31-2006, 03:47 PM

eric
Is your distributor new? If not that might be something to look into.

Brand new the only thing i have done to it is cut one of the legs off and use it for test fitting. It hasn't had any power on it till now. I'm going to recheck my wireing again tommorrow (although i checked the conversion harness about 4 times before i put it on).

Does any one have the shop manual for the for the 92-93 accord so i can trouble shoot the distributor?

guaynabo89

10-31-2006, 04:12 PM

i do, shoot me your email and i'll see if i can send it

EricW

11-02-2006, 04:17 PM

I found this diagram for the f22b engine which has an external coil. It shows the green wire from the distributor going to the negative side of the coil and the blue wire just goes to the tach. Can anyone verify this for me?

http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/ericrw165/OBD1%20swap/th_F22Distributorcopy.jpg (http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n117/ericrw165/OBD1%20swap/F22Distributorcopy.jpg)

EricW

11-02-2006, 05:00 PM

ITS ALIVE:bong: :devil:

The blue wire for the tach doesn't connect to the coil. The green wire from the distributor becomes the coil neg.

A big thanks to Dennis, For helping me for several hours yesterday since helping me make sure the sensors where wired in the right place.

guaynabo89

11-02-2006, 05:21 PM

no problem buddy

i'm glad you get it running finally. Hopefully with you documenting everythign beter than what I did you can help open the way for others

MessyHonda

11-02-2006, 07:46 PM

cool now make a short how to so we can have a sticky.

EricW

11-03-2006, 03:53 PM

actually helping with electrical part would be great.

I will try to work on it sunday or monday, but i still have to get my car running correctly.

shepherd79

11-03-2006, 05:52 PM

actually helping with electrical part would be great.

EricW

11-03-2006, 10:08 PM

Anyone know which OBDO senors i need to keep and which ones i can remove? I have some vacuum leaks that i want to take care of and making the black box disappear would be even better. If no one knows then i guess i know what I'm doing Sunday and Monday.

guaynabo89

11-04-2006, 04:31 AM

the only things you need since we have the same ecu is the map and the evap purge solenoid. You can chuck the rest of it. On my car I only have three vacuum lines the fpr, brake booster, and evap solenoid. The map is mounted on my T.B. so I dont need a line for it. Oh and if you have the 86-87 style iacv the you'll need those lines also. Of course I think you already swapped to a b16 manifold with the iacv mounted on it correct?

As far as the wiring help. I know I made a nice diaram in paint but it took about an hour to make and I need to fix some of the positins. That will probably help most on the distributor wiring part anyway. The rest of the wiring is double checking your pins at the obd1 ecu you use compared to the obd0 plugs on our accords. and the its just fitting the distributor and fixing the vss which I posted somewhere how to fix that just recently.

The hard part about it is that things change for each car depending of the year of it and the type of obd1 ecu you choose to run. I know the 86=87 pins are a little diferent than the 88-89.an depending on the obd1 ecu you run some pins are different also.

Plus there are always small issues that happen. Like Eric and I both are using the same ecu, but he said he was getting a cel for the ELD sensor. I ran my car without it for about a year and never got an ELD CEL.

EricW

11-04-2006, 04:43 PM

No, i don't have the b16 mani.

I will try to get a chart made for the 86-87 conversion harness and any other wireing that is required.

I'm having a problem with something i still have to figure out, it is causing the main relay to click on and off quickly at random times. Then after it does this for a minute or so the check engine light will come on and run in limp mode, causing my egts to get very high(1500*)

guaynabo89

11-05-2006, 04:30 PM

can you explain a little better? what do you mean by main?

EricW

11-05-2006, 07:36 PM

can you explain a little better? what do you mean by main?

Ooops i guess i forgot the word relay.

When the car is running the main relay will just click off and back on quickly several time until the ecu will just go into limp mode and run really rich. I believe its the main since it sounds like the same sound I hear when i go to start it.

SQ is the SQUAD

11-13-2006, 06:59 PM

just to add my .02 in, if your looking for everyhint to chip your ecu yourself, moates has a kit, its $15.

http://www.moates.net/product_info.php?cPath=25_37&products_id=42

this page also have some nice pics of the parts being installed. you can find more detailed info on pgmfi.org

http://home.comcast.net/~keebler65/honda/uberdata.html

SQ is the SQUAD

11-14-2006, 11:58 AM

Correct. Most of the pinouts are the same. As a general reference dfor OBD1 ECU's
A1-INJ1 INJ1
A2-INJ4 INJ4
A3-INJ2 INJ2
A4-VTS VTEC solenoid
A5-INJ3 INJ3
A6-PO2SHTC O2 sensor (heating element)
A7-FLR1 fuel pump
A8-empty
A9-IACV IAC valve
A10-empty
A11-empty
A12-FANC engine coolant temp switch
A13-MIL MIL (check engine light)
A14-empty
A15-ACC (a/c compressor clutch)
A16-ALT C alternator
A17-IAB IAB Solenoid
A18-empty
A19-**
A20-PCS EVAP purge control solenoid
A21-ICM ICM
A22- *per Sander* Ignitor
A23-PG1 ground
A24-PG2 ground
A25-IGP2 to main relay and to gound for o
A26-LG1 gound
B1-IGP2 to pin A25
B2-LG2 ground to shields for CYP & TDC
B3-**
B4-**
B5-ACS a/c switch
B6-empty
B7-**
B8-PSPSW PSP switch
B9-STARTER SIGNAL starter signal
B10-VSS vehicle speed sensor
B11-CYP P CYP -P
B12-CYP M CYP -M
B13-TDC P TDC -P
B14-TDC M TDC -M
B15-CKP P CKP -P
B16-CKP M CKP -M
D1-VBU Back Up Power
D2-BKSW brake switch
D3-KS Knock Sensor
D4-SCS service check connector
D5-empty
D6-VTM VTEC pressure switch
D7-TXD/RXD (data link connector)
D8-empty
D9-ALT F alternator
D10-ELD electric load detector
D11-TPS TPS Signal
D12-**
D13-ECT ECT sensor
D14-PHO2S O2 sensor
D15-IAT IAT sensor
D16-VREF VREF
D17-MAP Map Signal
D18-**
C19-VCC1 MAP 5V
C20-VCC2 TPS 5V
C21-SG1 MAP GND
C22-SG2 TPS GND
http://tech.hybridgarage.com/tech/info_files/eg-pin.gif
http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wNDQ4MDExNnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg
My contribution to the thread. Some people dont feel like following links and stuff and dont want to have to PM people for info so I'll post some here.
Enjoy

the iput sockets on my ecu that i removed to make my jumper harmess, its only 2 plugs how do i know what is a,b,c,d,?

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/4715/Picture560.jpg

http://img107.imageshack.us/img107/9171/Picture550.jpg

i am using this chard for compasason
http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/3765/9214ow9.jpg

EricW

11-14-2006, 02:34 PM

http://hondaswap.com/attachments/reference-materials/9d1100714191-ecu-pinouts-obd0.jpg

http://hondaswap.com/reference-materials/ecu-pinouts-28667/

SQ is the SQUAD

11-14-2006, 02:44 PM

thanks eric. i was just looking at that page too. lol. i had to sign up to see the images

http://hondaswap.com/attachments/reference-materials/9d1100714191-ecu-pinouts-obd0.jpg

shepherd79

11-14-2006, 04:13 PM

the black connector has two connectors.

carotman

11-14-2006, 06:23 PM

You can alays count the number of pins. They're all different between the connectors :)

EricW

11-30-2006, 03:44 PM

Does any one know what pin is the ELD(electronic load detector) on the P75 ecu?

On a side note i have a full pin out of the 86-87 accord to the p75 conversion harness written down and will make a spreadsheet out of it as soon as i can.

I also solved my problem with the main relay clicking off and on. I believe it was caused by the pin on the conversion harness about to break off, since it broke yesterday and i had to fix it. Then when i took it out for a test drive i heard a loud pop out of the exhaust and the tach went to about 8 grand and i got a solid check engine light. I checked the code(4) and its for one of the sensors or its circuit, i hope its just another one of the wires in the conversion harness but i won't have time to find out until tomorrow.