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Coy
08-28-2004, 09:20 PM
from what id guess without having to do a rewire or any other major wireing mods the engines availible for a 2g would be (us engines) the et1, et2, and the es1. i cant seem to find any specs on any of these engines so im not too sure which would be an upgrade or if these are the only possibilities. i know with enough cash i could put any engine in, but i want to use the stock wiring and mounts.
if there are any other engines that i didnt know about let me know. im kinda pushin towards the dual carb es1, but i dont know if itd be an upgrade or what.

PhydeauX
08-28-2004, 10:28 PM
Don't bother with the es1, if you want the dual carbed prelude engine use the et2. Your going to have to rewire what ever engine you want to swap. You can toss the a20a in you list as well. They all mount in the same spot. The main wireing is almost the same in all of the engines. Its the emissions wireing thats going to get you. Not much you can do about that if your in an emissions controled area. If not you can just eliminate it or go with a weber or something.

andy

88accordhb
08-29-2004, 12:07 AM
you have more torque with your a20a1, E series suck. someone on here has a 2nd gen accord BT motor. that's the first version of the a20a3 me tinks. but i don't think any of those will be worth your time.

engine specs here
http://www.integra.orcon.net.nz/engines

Coy
08-29-2004, 05:42 PM
got it.

i dont see why i shouldnt go with the es1 or et2. i mean i kinda want something a little better but i dont plan on building the car for performance. personally i like the whole look of the sidedraft.

as far as emissions go, im in nebraska and as of now its no big deal. as long as i got a cat on it its good to go. shit i could hollow the cat if i wanted to. BTW, would that make it loud as fuck if i did that? i was thinking about doing that, but i dont want the car louder.

i was kinda hopin to find a carb'd DOHC engine to slap in it. i dont know if there are any available in the states though.

PhydeauX
08-29-2004, 09:18 PM
Well the a20 has the most displacement. It will make the most power with the least mods. The ET makes more power then the es and is also more common. It doesn't have the cvcc system and its 3rd carb to deal with as well.

andy

Coy
08-30-2004, 04:12 PM
that brings up another question...WTF is CVCC? and im not too sure what your talking about with the 3rd carb

the a20 is carb'd isnt it?

PhydeauX
08-31-2004, 07:16 AM
cvcc stands for controled vortex combustion chamber or something along those lines. Its a straife charge system using a seperate prechamber where a leaner mixture is ignited first. It results in a cleaner burn and probably some fuel econmy benefits. I'm not an expert on the system, I had a cvcc head apart once and thats it. On the es2 the seperate mixture comes from a 3rd barrel in the carb. Take a look at the carb on your 85 some time, there is a 3rd pencil sized barrel on the valve cover side of the carb, this feeds the cvcc system. On the es1 they couldn't just add a barrel to a su carb so a 3rd carb had to be added. Its a very tiny thing sits inbetween and slightly under the other two carbs. If you take the air filter off you can see the opening for it, it also has a throat you could choke with a pencil.

The a20 came in 2 versions in the us a20a1 (carbed) and a20a3 (efi)

andy

Coy
09-01-2004, 12:32 PM
aw, i see.

well i think i may have devised a plan...but some of the details im just theorizing and such. i want an a20a3 from a car originally equipped with an auto tranny, a manual tranny, and an intake manifold/carbs from a et2.

now the part im not too sure about is if i want to go with the tranny from an efi or a carb engine and the big thing im wondering about is if i can convert an efi engine to carb by simply swapping the IM and whichever electronics arent plug and play. i dont know where the wiring issues come into play on the conversion to EFI in my 85. i hope that its only the IM and TB. i was guessing that i could just swap the misc sensors and such from the carbd engine.

the reason for the auto engine would be because typically speaking they have more aggresive heads, although im not completely sure if thats the case here and further speaking i would guess that the efi engine would be overall more aggresive. correct me if im wrong on any of this.

PhydeauX
09-01-2004, 08:21 PM
You cant put the et manifold on the a20. You can convert it to carb by putting a carb manifold on it but the et manifold does not fit. The only readlily available carb manifold you can put on the a20a3 is one from an a20a1.

andy

Coy
09-02-2004, 10:21 AM
id guess that the bolt patterns are different on the manifolds.

so the a1 manifold will bolt to the a3, but will their be any known wiring issues cause i still dont think i want to rewire the bay.

speaking of rewiring the bay, id thought about doing that since i can get an a3 harness for fifty bucks. that wouldnt include rewiring the lights and things like that. i dont know if id have to rewire every single thing under the dash and all the little modules scattered through the car.

night
09-02-2004, 10:49 AM
im confused.... you want a sidedraft prelude setup, or the 2L downdraft?

ET2
09-02-2004, 05:06 PM
The et2 head will bolt to a20 block then you can run dual side draft webers dcoe's, and manifold can still be had for around 250-300 dollars

night
09-02-2004, 07:41 PM
The et2 head will bolt to a20 block then you can run dual side draft webers dcoe's, and manifold can still be had for around 250-300 dollars

unless the planet has changed since i last checked, that gets a :thumbdown

Coy
09-05-2004, 06:16 PM
so, there is a side draft dual carb on the 20 if im comprehending this right.
cool.
ok i was thinking now that it would prolly be a better swap if i could go to a B20 from a Si lude. i dont jknow if those came carb'd or if id have to rewire though.

whats the 20 sidedraft come in exactly and would it be a direct fit or a rewire job?

night
09-06-2004, 08:44 PM
20 = 2.0 i assume ??

the carb lude is a 1.8. the block and head are not the same. maybe youve seen the oil jet on these motors before, but if not, take my word for it. that jet is on the other side of the head bolt in the 2L engines. otherwise they are the exact same, cept for that key 'feature'.

and also, trust me on this. you do not want those sidedraft carbs. they are the biggest pain in the ass, pos's honda ever put on their cars. i would suggest anything b4 telling u to mess with those things.

you really should just put the carb 3gen accord motor in with the downdraft, then look at a custom weber setup or something later.

Coy
09-07-2004, 10:27 AM
ok, fine...:-P no sidedraft.

but should i go for a FI motor with a carb manifold or would that make any difference

night
09-07-2004, 10:59 AM
higher compression pistons. no reason not to.

rjudgey
09-07-2004, 12:20 PM
Night buddy where you been hiding all the research i've done for five years and your talking out your arse cause you don't come and visit us regularily enough!! Their were two block types used by Honda early 83-85 blocks have your original engine in and yes the only heads that will fit that becuase of the oil control jet is an ET1/ES/ES1/ES2 and early 83-85 ET now from 86 with the advent of The 3G accord and A20 Honda decided to use a modified block from the earlier preludes and accords, they added a slightly bigger oil feed but what they also did was they did this in two different sizes all blocks from 86-89 were the same regardless of model, A18 was 1.8 A20 was 2.0litre Honda went and confused things a little as a fw of these modified blocks also had BT code and ET and ET2 codes best to go by year or newer A18/A20 codes, A18 and A20 coded engines you can swap heads/blocks, but the earlier types you can still use all internal parts still as they are still the same, You can even bore out a ET/ES to 2.0litre spec using A20 pistons, but you have to use a Felpro head gasket to have big enough combustion chamber seal rings to fit the pistons. Proof of the pudding is in the eating my 14.6 second 2g lude has in it a A18 Head on a A20A4 block which fit perfectly.

Now with that confuson out the way the way i would go would be A20A1 engine re-build it blue print it, shave the block and head slightly the head little bit more than block, this will raise the CR use Sealed power pistons, get a mild cam, carb downdraught manifold from A20A1 flow it internaly same with the head, then a pierce manifolds weber conversion plate and fit a Weber DGAS 38/38 carb, that will sort you out, gear box, get the A20 tranny, then find a 1st gen TEG box and swap the gearboxes over so that the teg box goes onto the A20 bellhousing, this will give you much more aggressive gearing, if you like motorway driving retain the accord 5th gear as the Teg 5th gear is a little tiring after 50 miles!! same ratio as 4th gear in the A20 so like driving around in 4th all the time!! Thats what i'm going to do in mine as it's driving me nuts!! Now that little package shouldn't cost a huge amount but the increase in power will be pretty substantial at least about 140-150bhp depending on your exhaust system and the amount of head work you do and the cam duration too. Any more power and you'l have to switch to twin Weber DCOE's which will give you between 150-230bhp depending on how serious you wanna get!! as well as more money!!

rjudgey
09-07-2004, 12:28 PM
Wiring theirs no reason why you can't just use all the existing wiring that you have in your engine, the dizzy, alternator etc, all mount in the same place you just need to make sure you use all the same mounts and brackets etc. only thing that may be a slight prob is you'll have to swtich the dizzy mount from your accord head and fit that onto the A20A1 head, which engine do you have at the moment? If it's an ET1 might be worth checking out REdline manifolds as they do a Weber twin carb conversion kit still, and you would get more power gain by fitting that on and then maybe converting your old block to 2.0litre spec later on. Tell us what code it is you have.

night
09-07-2004, 01:46 PM
:(

i gave up on iron blocks a long time ago anyway. just sick of working on the same damn motors after 6 years.

rjudgey
09-08-2004, 02:44 AM
well their not the best but their's still an easy 200bhp you can squeeze outta them!! So what you using in yours these days then? B20A or B16 family?

Coy
09-08-2004, 10:25 AM
wow, thats alot of info there man.

but much more than i needed although appreciated all the same. ive got an es2, and i just want a somewhat simple swap. id thought about rewiring the bay for an EFI engine but im not sure if ill have enough time to rewire since ive never done it before and winter is approaching quickly and the accord is my only car. im still somewhat thinking of rewireing, but i dont know how difficult it would be and i dont want to rewire unless i go with to a DOHC (the b20 from the lude) but i dont know if its a direct fit mount wise. if the dual cam idea flops then ill prolly go with an A20A3 with an A1 intake manifold, and as far as gearing goes im still not sure if i want to go with a tranny from a carby or an EFI because more than likely ill buy the tranny separately since the engine that i am getting will originally have an auto.

rjudgey
09-08-2004, 02:17 PM
keep existing ones, not worth the hassle, plus switching to Honda PGM-Fi is not worth wasting time and money on, if you want FI then get a custom setup but you'll also need to change/mod the tank, uprate all the fuel lines and have high pressure joints, change the pump and regulator and add a return pipe to the tank. Stick with the carbs and get a Weber DGV or DGAS two types 32/36 for economy and bit more oomph or go with 38/38 for power or if your really mad twin DCOE's!! As for Tranny i'd still recommend making a hybrid from an accord box and a teg box you won't be dissapointed!!
Also B20A will be difficult to fit it's a bigger engine i think you'll have clearance problems on the hood as well as at the front near the rad, the side mount will locate, but the rear and front and lower and top mounts i really wouldn't have thought would just line up i think it would be a bit too involving, also if you did try a B20A swap a A20A1 carb manifold will fit so just run the B20A on carbs.
P.S it's worth getting a standalone igntion system, you can make a DIY crank fired system with parts from Ford and buy a DIY programable chip to control it, or you could buy MSD or Crane or Electromotive system as well if you fancy a brand name instead!!

Coy
09-10-2004, 08:40 PM
ok, so the b20 would be a little or a lot close to the hood and radiator? i crave DOHC power again. if the clearance issues arent a problem and i can use my stock wiring harness then it sounds good. especially since i can carb it.

i mean, if all i have to get is the a20 manifold and the b20 mounts and such then it sounds good to go. if its way too close to the radiator i can prolly just find a radiator from another honda, but with the hood clearance issue id have to figure something out and get a few details on it then i bet i could do something about it. what i mean by details would be is the valve cover too close, or is it the carbs or what? on my 1g crx there was supposed clearance issues with the vavlve cover and camgear cover, but i didnt have any problems at all. the only problem we had on it was the bad upper strut mounts and we fixed that by replacing them....but yeah.

*edit* when i speak of the b20 im talkin about the usdm b20 from the late eighties prelude, just to make things clearer

rjudgey
09-13-2004, 07:00 AM
well thats just gone and buggered things up then!! That won't work at all!!! You need a B20A from a 2g prelude from mid eighties not late eighties as in the 3rd gen lude their completely different engine and lean a different way!!

PhydeauX
09-13-2004, 07:55 AM
On a diferent supject here, remember that the axles on the 2g are smaller then the 3g and 2.0 prelude. If you dont want to take your tranny apart and change the diff then you are limited to a 2g tranny, or 1.8 prelude tranny (85 recomended). Use which ever clutch/flywheel came with the tranny.

andy

PS
The b20 that rjudgey is talking about never came to the us. You'll need to import one from japan or europe, and good luck finding a 5 speed trans for it they are very rare (the a20 one wont work). Also I don't think any one knows a solution for the axles on a b20 trans into a 2g so you might end up having to make some custom parts.

carotman
09-13-2004, 08:19 AM
PhydeauX I guess he could use a 2G axle with a 3G inner CV joint to match with the transmission.

night
09-13-2004, 11:00 AM
PhydeauX I guess he could use a 2G axle with a 3G inner CV joint to match with the transmission.


umm... when i put 89 LXi brakes on my lude, i tried that and the whole damn axle was a different size.

im the one that first made it known you had to shave the inside of a 1.8 tranny to use 2.0 fly/clutch :). figured that after i changed the diff. that was a long ass day btw.

Coy
09-14-2004, 11:28 AM
so the usdm dohc engine wont fit without alot of work...damn.

time is of the esscence (sp?) so ill prolly go for the a20a3 with the carb manifold from an a20a1, and i might have read this wrong but the 85 lude tranny seems to be a good choice.

rjudgey
09-17-2004, 04:34 PM
strange that you should want a bigger heavier flywheel and clutch? My 1.8 flywheel and clutch works just lovely!! Can't wait to get CM ally flywheel!! Just hope they still make it by time i get round to ordering one!!

Coy
09-18-2004, 11:24 PM
ok, so ive got no time for a FI swap, the usdm b20 wont fit, and i dont want he es or et's.

i guess ill start lookin for an auto a20a3, a a20a3 manual tranny and a a20a1 intake manifold.

rjudgey
09-20-2004, 04:14 AM
well you still have options, redline racing do a weber manifold for ET1 from an accord, also i think they may do ES not sure check back with themm they have loads listed still for old accords, i would just get youold engine re-done, 2.0litre pistons, headwork etc. etc. Then your box will definately fit your block, other than that if you go A20A1 then use a manual box from accord or prelude you will need to open up both boxes and swap the diffs over or get custom axles made, prelude 85 boxes are not all ealier types, mainly the ones that use tyhe ES engine used the older style blcok and gearbox, but not all did even back in 83-84 so you have to be carefull!!
I would go with a setup similar to Phydeaux with box and engine combos that he's used then use a weber DGAS 38/38 with A20A1 manifold but as i said before your original parts still could be used or if you can find a spare their still good bits to use!!

Coy
09-23-2004, 12:09 PM
You cant put the et manifold on the a20. You can convert it to carb by putting a carb manifold on it but the et manifold does not fit. The only readlily available carb manifold you can put on the a20a3 is one from an a20a1.

andy

this is the idea i like, but using the a20a1 manifold. thats probly what ill end up doin. honestly im not going for a racer or a shit ton of extra power. just something i like. so, thanks everyone for all the ideas and suggestions but for what its worth the decision has been made. im getting the engine, manifold and tranny seperate. a placing them together like a funky puzzle. no emissions, no power steering. just stock honda parts. a3 auto engine, a1 manifold, a3 tranny and drivetrain. dissapointing as it is it wont be DOHC but it will be a 2.0.

now im gunna get in depth on the suspension...te he he

PhydeauX
09-23-2004, 02:23 PM
I ran an a20a3 with a1 intake and weber dgv carb for a bit. Makes the conversoin very easy, no emissions, 1 vacuume line, and works with the stock fuel system. It did good, high 16s in the 1/4 but not nearly as much power as the dcoe carbs. If you have power steering just keep it. The es bracket will bolt right on to the a20a with no mods, no reason not to keep it. You will need an a20a1 (lx) alternator since it plugs right into the 2g harness and has the right pully to work with the a20 waterpump and crank. You have to mount it the engine with the ES brackets though to clear the master cylender. For a belt you need one that is the same length as the ES belt but with one more rib, dont have the measurements off hand.

For the record. The actual swap, from pushing the car into the bay, pulling the old motor, dropping the a20a in and starting it and driving it out (not including time spent building and assembling the motor/trans) was 1 day. Its a very easy strait forward swap when going this route.

2g suspension 101: DO NOT LOWER IT.

Learn to love the fender gap, I know on the 2g its enormous. The 2g uses mcphearsons and single control arms with radius rods on all 4 conrners. There is no way to adjust the camber and the roll centers will get thrown off if you go too low so all its going to end up doing is eating tires and handeling like crap. Your not going to find much in the way of suspension parts anyway. There are koni's out there, they've been discontinued for a long time but still seem to be floating around if can find them. You can find stiffer springs from king springs in australia, but shipping costs are about as much as the springs, they have lowering springs too if you realy must. The 2g chassis is also very flimsy and of course no strut bars are available so you have to make them. On my car I use cheap civic coil overs and stock struts, some modifications involved. The coil overs are 450lb/in front and 350lb/in rear, that is super stiff for such a light car on the street, and with the stock struts is very bouncy. It doesnt matter to me since the car is mainly used for drag racing, but drving it on any road that isnt very smooth is almost intolarable.

andy

carotman
09-24-2004, 02:13 PM
PhydeauX, would it be possible to slot the strut where it bolts to the knuckle and adjust the camber this way?

PhydeauX
09-24-2004, 09:36 PM
The strut doesn't bolt to the knuckle on the 2g, it clamps. You'd have to do something like adjustable strut tops to make any changes in the camber.

andy

carotman
09-26-2004, 03:57 PM
The strut doesn't bolt to the knuckle on the 2g, it clamps. You'd have to do something like adjustable strut tops to make any changes in the camber.

andy
:uh:

Well, at least it's not impossible.... but still not fun to do

Coy
10-10-2004, 10:47 PM
random question....what engines came in the jdm 2g accord??

night
10-11-2004, 10:49 AM
iron ones :uh:

Coy
10-11-2004, 11:15 AM
that doesnt tell me anything, thanks for wasting however long it took me to load this page just to see your reply. thank you.

just playing, night.

PhydeauX
10-12-2004, 05:26 PM
I'm fairly sure they came with the ES2 motor, probably just labled ES. They might have got more of the ES3 pgmfi motor then we did in the SE-i.

andy

kilgorq
08-03-2005, 09:34 PM
Here is my swap attempt. I have a 1985 Prelude with the 1.8 ES motor. The end of the crank is wasted so I want to put the 2.0 A20A1 motor that I have from a 1986 Accord in it. I have the complete drivetrain from the Accord.

What transmission is lower geared in first. Are they interchangable. What I am wanting to do is use the A20A1 With the transmission that is already in the Prelude. If I am following correctly the transmission that is in the Prelude is a better one. Especially if I want lower gear ratios.

The dual carbs are going away and I will be looking for a Carburetor to put on the A20A1. The carb was already robbed when I got the shoehorned Accord.

Also will the distributors interchange. The one that is on the A20A1 doesn't have the ICM (Ignition Cntrol Module) mounted to the side but the ES does have it mounted to the side. I have heard that it is the better one of the two.

It looks like mounting the engine into the Prelude will not be a problem but what about axels and transmission junk.

Where do I find a good price on a trans kit. Syncros, Bearings, and Seals.

Thanks for any help in advance.

rjudgey
08-04-2005, 04:51 AM
Well bit old this one, but hey nevermind.
I would if on a tight budget, get A20A3/4, then buy a A20A1 inlet manifold for carb, weber DGV convertor plate from pierce manifolds, Weber DGV 38/38 carb, You can use a couple of gearbox choices, stock 2g Lude tranny okay all round although 3rd-5th are a little tall for racing or drag, but good for economy and general cruising. If you want something with a little more poke then you could get a 3G accord box, bin everything except the bellhousing, then buy a 1st Gen Teg box and use gears and case from that and transfer it onto the 3G accord bellhousing. This will giver you much shorter ratios for better acceleration, is you still want good crusing gear than just use 5th gear out of the lude or Accord box their all the same size on all the trannies, it's just 1-4th that are different physical sizes. Use the 1.8 flywheel and get it lightened and cleaned up, then get a 1st Gen CRX D16 JDM clutch kit from Clutchnet, that will last a long time and take a lot of punishment. The axles may not fit i think the ES may have used different inner joints not 100% as Honda seemed to use a real mixture of parts from 83-84, if this is the case then just get any manual lude axles from 86-87 from a USDM SI with A20 not B20A that will definately fit. Also if you are robbing parts from 3G Accord than nick it's front calipers and get the same part numbers for the front disks as they are bigger than a base ludes tiny disks!! and you get a reasonable choice in pads.
A20A3 with Weber 38/38 with higher CR ratio block should be good for 130-140 bhp but you may need to cut a hole in the hood above the carb as not sure if the hood will have enough clearnace, but if you bosh a hood scoop over it that will get you a few more bhp as you'll have a direct ram air induction!! Also might be worth investing in a slightly better fuel pump Facet fits in same location as stock pump and if you fit a adjustable pressure regualtor as well you can make sure the carb is getting the right pressure and enough fuel. You could combine that with a slightly more aggressive camshaft say a 270-275 degree with 10-11mm lift should do the job nicely. With Exhaust and header should see you too around 150-160bhp.

Taylor Smith
12-16-2012, 07:55 PM
how would you modify the stock intake manifold on a 85 accord with the es2 so the auxiliary port will get fuel if a 38/38 weber is swapped in.. or would it be easier to use a different intake manifold

2ndGenGuy
12-16-2012, 10:06 PM
Take a look at the adapter kit for the Weber. There is a slot that runs to the aux runners in the intake manifold. A regular mixture will circulate into it as well as the main combustion chamber. Basically, the adapter plates for the Weber will do all that work for you.