PROJECT , TURBO ( RobT5580 )

[doug]

i just wanted to add that you got a nice pair of floor jacks too!

[RobT5580]

Looks awsome!

I'm glad your project is nearing completion. You must be getting very anxious to almost be finished. Gonna have to see that thing when you finally finish.

Keep up the good work. You're an inspiration to us all.

Oh i have been dying to get this thing running especially since i pulled the accord off the street early august. And i parted out my other accord so iv been stuck driving my Mazda MX6 which sucks especially at school when its nice out and everyone has their cars out and im trying to hide in the mazda. But i had to sacrafice something to finish this project and i would sell the mazda if my brothers F350 wasnt so bad on gas. Then on top of things im way behind in school work trying to catch up so iv been spending 5 minutes here and there bolting things back on the engine so i can drop it in when i find some time (maybe friday).

And doug the red jack is a aluminum jack i got from sears. I love the jack but im a little disappointed with how slow it lifts the car. But the jack is bigger than my regular jack and half the weight so its easy to move around. I mainly got it because of the low profile so its easier to get under lowered cars.

[smufguy]

I know this is gonna be one hella fast 3g and like u said, tuning is the biggest hurdle (IMO, too). Im thinking of taking my car to Virginia to get it tuned after the basic NA map is set cause im scared of tunining it here in NJ cause no body really knows how to tune it.

See the reason you stand out is because of the research, hardwork, knowledge and time you put into it to get it right. I mean, i know 80% of the guys who work on their cars forget about suspension or transmission or other stuff while boostin their car, but you are doing everything right. Its exactly how im starting out too and to be honest, ppl like you are hard to come by. Im gathering parts slowly and yet steadly to get my project finished. I hear you on the school part thats why my project is on the back seat till i graduate this semester, then ill be free to earn more money and get the project going after i get another car. I just figured its easier to get a car in good shape and do the things i need to do and get rid of my current car.

Mad props to you man and u know u are unique in what u do.

[RobT5580]

Thats the only way to do it Praveen and i did once start to save parts for building a turbo A20A3 and bought arias pistons and got some stuff from Justin. But after having some financial issues i sold the stuff i had and almost gave up when i sold even the stuff that i put into the car. But when i found my 3rd accord i had hope and it wasnt my daily driver so it was easier to keep the car in good shape. I still can't get over how Justin had his car turboed way back then and he only has a year on me or so. But he was the one that got me into turbo's and i just read as much as possible and still do. And being in NJ i would think there are decent places to get it tuned? But if your patient you will finish your project and its hard to wait but it will be worth it in the end rather than building a crappy setup and having all sorts of problems.

So hopefully the car is up and running well for the possible november meet so you guys can actually see the car before winter comes.

[Neuspeed87lx]

jesus rob ! its perfect ... awesome job man A++++

[smufguy]

Thats the only way to do it .

Amen to that Brother. Thats exactly my point.

Well, as u know im gonna run tec3 and as far as i know, no one besides the dude at my school knows how to tune it. and even him, he tunes his CBX (the I6 honda bike) and not a car, so i dont know. I was thinking of taking my car to the Electromotive headquarters or contact them once i get my stuff together and find a closer place that they know who can tune my car.

But do take a lot of pics man, cause u know ur car is going on my website pretty soon once i get time to update my website.

[RobT5580]

I dropped it in today and did as much as i could. I just have some odds and ends to do and then im just waiting on the EMS and tuning time. I still dont know how long it will be until she runs do to lack of time and money. But i will try to get some video footage when i do get it running.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid140/p87cd2f660b2d5d8ab750ad0a90f83a89/f6e4f254.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid140/pa0c2504832b2be54a9a1149081eba015/f6e4f21f.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid140/p54e9b6a6f01337d08c8df45834842c7f/f6e4f1e0.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid140/pe94f3203f0d4cbd22a472d9d04e94aff/f6e4f1a5.jpg
I have a few issues as expected i will need to make a new downpipe which im happy about because i want a full 3" all the way back. Surprising everything seems to clear the hood. I had to grind a little of the tranny housing since it rubbed the bell housing a tad so its a good thing i got the fidanza flywheel because i know the stock flywheel would have needed some serious clearancing.

[88accordhb]

OMMMMGGGGG!!!!! that's insane!!! good job robert.

[MrBen]

Woohoo way to go. Looks great..

[carotman]

insane!

I know just how you feel right now!

The stock B20A5 flywheel had minimal clearance issues (close to nothing in fact)

Our Accords were really meant to have a DOHC engine under the hood!

[SrvZro]

hot damn that thing is pure art

[RobT5580]

Oh and out of having recently pulled two A20's i cannot find either rear upper (dog bone) mounts. I was so pist looking for them as i have about 6 large rubber maid bins full of misc parts. Its nice to have the extra room in my work area but i still have trouble finding stuff that i know i have somewhere. I must say the B20A dropped in like a piece of cake and i was able to drop it all straight down. I have a lot of school work to catch up on so it may be a week before i can touch the car again unless i procrastate more than i already have.

[RobT5580]

Im not looking forward to pulling the engine over the winter/spring for paint but its gotta get done and i want my engine bay to look as good as the rest of the car will.

[blazin3gen]

holly shit rob! my god!! one word

speachless

[wprocomp]

kick ass mang! hey rob would it be possible to still get some of those parts from ludespeed later next year?

[RobT5580]

Ludespeed stopped making stuff for the prelude and its about as hard to find a turbo manifold for the prelude as it is the accord. I might change my manifold out later on but i think it will be fine for what i want so its doubtful unless it doesnt hold up well.

[Busted_Blue]

looks like i need a new pair of pants/boxers.

[adams86lxi]

DAMN!!!! good work man! cant wait till you get that thing runnin!!!! :bow:

[Hash_man_Se_i]

Looks awesome... and such a clean engine... good luck keeping the white white, hahah... anyways, cant wait to see it running.

[maka_RTH]

i love it. i think you're gonna have the fastest street legal 3g there is. that looks like one fun setup. get some video of the first time it's running ;)

[Oyvind Ryeng]

Great job Rob! It looks really good! I'd guess you'll be super-happy when you have that thing tuned and starts haulin' ass! What power-# are you expecting?

[AccordEpicenter]

wooo rob... you da man. I got my clutchnet clutch today and hopefully will install it too :) then we will race and ill get pwn3d

[Justin86]

You got any pics of the intercooler set up? :D

[RobT5580]

Im shooting for somewhere in the 3's but its hard to judge due to the lack of B20A's that are boosted and its hard to compare it to other engines. Hopefully things go well im gonna take the car to my friends shop and make a new 3" downpipe and get it ready for the tuning session.

Oh Justin the only intercooler pictures i had were posted in the other thread i made a week or so ago. I will take more pictures when i clean the car up.

[Elijah]

Nice cant wait to see vids of it rpping up the track or dyno.

[Dr._8t9LX]

That is Awsome! Makes me wanta drop my stock ideas and go big time!!!

[Coroncho80]

Awsome ...... I really hope that the video comes soon man. Awsome job Rob!

[guaynabo89]

looking good there buddy. Hopefully I'll be boosted in the new year also. Of course your setup is extremely nice looking and looks well setup.

Cant wait to see some day pictures of your setup.

How much boost you planning on runnig on the regular? ANd what size turbo you runnig if you dont mind me asking.

With all the nice cars up north I might have to go to one of yall's meets.

[HostileJava]

Looks really great rob, almost there :D

[FatDave]

:omg: anyone got a wet-nap?

[RobT5580]

looking good there buddy. Hopefully I'll be boosted in the new year also. Of course your setup is extremely nice looking and looks well setup.

Cant wait to see some day pictures of your setup.

How much boost you planning on runnig on the regular? ANd what size turbo you runnig if you dont mind me asking.

With all the nice cars up north I might have to go to one of yall's meets.

Im very open and don't hide any details and to answer your question i plan to run 10psi for low boost since thats the smallest spring i have for my wastegate and upwards of 20psi depending on how it goes on the dyno. I have a Garrett T3 Super 60 just like Justin had on his setup. I hope to make my way down to florida and that would be a good trip to take so maybe you will see my car next year at Nopi since iv been saying this for many years now. Plus i wont be in school next september unless i screw up a class.

[guaynabo89]

Well if you make it next year you should show yours. Works out better that way too.

Definately a car Id like to see in person.

[Neuspeed87lx]

FUCK ME .... rob man awesome work .....just awesome ...i am very very impressed .... ACCORD OF THE YEAR RIGHT THERE !

[truetune]

amazing, fkn awesome, it looks soo sexi. mad props to you.

[Lok]

Yes, this engine could make easily 350-400hp with that turbo-stock intake manifold-stockTB and 550cc injectors(with less than 1bar turbo pressure).
But the botom-end is capable of over 600hp ..................with B16A1 intake manifold, larger turbo, 70mm spoon TB and 800cc injectors, this engine will make easy 600+hp......................TOP FUEL(Japan's Honda turbo specialist) B16A,makes 500+hp with GT35 TURBO(just 1.6bar),APEXI POWER FC and just a block-guard ( no slaved block)!!!!
so i think no problem about Rob if he want to go the 600hp+ route, his botom-end is
unbelivable ( close-deck, everything forged), plus B20a is 2000cc ( no 1600cc like B16a).
AEM stand-alone computer is OK ( Formula1 technology)
FANTASTIC ENGINE

[RobT5580]

Things are looking really good and today we finished my 3" downpipe and my friend decided just to do a full 3" all the way to the muffler. It looks really good and will flow well i just hope its not to loud.

[Hash_man_Se_i]

Things are looking really good and today we finished my 3" downpipe and my friend decided just to do a full 3" all the way to the muffler. It looks really good and will flow well i just hope its not to loud.

Lol, thats good to hear, but I hope you at least put a resonator in between?... My friend drove his Sr20DET powered 240 for about 20 minutes without a resonator and 3" piping before he felt sick, lol... he drove right back to the muffler shop and got one put in.

[RobT5580]

Its a straight 3" i never thought of the resonator and im sure its going to be loud so im going to have to do something about it. The piping was not bad except the rear was a little harder do because of the angle but i finished it up this mourning. I will get some pictures up next weekend since the car is not here right now.

[smufguy]

we have a guy at work with a 95 sentra with a SR20DET motor and he got a race CAT and no resonator and some muffler, i dont remember. Its deep but on the roll its not loud at all. All u hear is just his turbo spool up and nothing bad. Even the dude with the TUrbo laser has no resonator and a Muffler and it does not sound loud at all.

What kinda muffler are you getting rob? I heard the magnaflow is not loud at all.

[keruhas184]

I got no resonator myself, and I'm surprised how quiet it is. I guess having a stock cat and no header really muffles the sound. So maybe a high-flow cat is a better way to go if CT has emissions. But you might need a hookup for inspection anyway with everything else you have in there.... so emissions may not be a factor...

[smufguy]

with a NA map set up and everything going according to the stock set up and tuned to that, it will be good. But me, im thinking of moving out of NJ anyway. I wanna move to NC or somewhere. but we will have to see. Until then, Im gonna be swapping motors every two years :D

[Coroncho80]

I have a 2"5 straight pipe with no cat no nothing and the car is pretty quiet. Actually, when I was N/A it was louder than what it is now.

PS: I want a 3" straight pipe so bad ....... Danm, I need more $$$ :(

[RobT5580]

I guess i will just see how loud it is and decide later if i will try to quiet it down or not. I dont want it to be loud because the police are rediculous in my girlfriends town and i dont need the hastle of a ticket or trips to DMV for inspections.

[smufguy]

from what i know, when ur not boosting, ur quiter than a NA like Maurice mentioned. but under max boost, all hell breaks loose :)

[NXRacer]

you should be fine with only a 3" straight pipe. My buddy just put in a 3" with no mufler on his TSX and its pretty quiet. With a turbo, there really isnt a need for a muffler usually. The best exhaust for a turbo is no exhaust at all.. . . .

[SteveDX89]

Maurice's car is almost silent. I was behind him on the highway and I couldn't hear it at all.

[Justin86]

Yea the turbo helps to lower the sounds, thats why the SRT-4's just have a cat.

[RobT5580]

Sounds good i was concerned with that since i don't want the hastle of a loud exhaust. I just have a few odds and ends to do to her and she should be up and running pretty soon if it goes as planned. The AEM EMS is on the way and all i need is the tuner to set it up then we can fire her up.

[smufguy]

you should be able to find a table for a SOHC D16 turbo civics and run it for a while, or to say just load up the NA map and have no boost. AEM EMS (from what i heard) is easier to tune compared to other ems like greddy and stuff. Its similar to SDS cause its more popular and a lot of guys are knowledgeable enough to tune em. AEM might have downloadable files.

[keruhas184]

Yep. AEM has an Electronics Forum (http://forum.aempower.com/bbs/login.php) with downloadable maps and what not. They also have a firmware update for the EMS avalible for download...

[RobT5580]

Im not even going to attemp to fire the car until my tuner sets it all up. I have read so many things and even seen in person people running an un-tuned engine and you can easily damage your rings if running in a lean condition. I do have a wide band o2 but i put way to much into this to screw it up because i didnt want to wait for it to be setup properly. Plus im not in a rush other than me dying to drive the car. So it will come soon enough and im pre-occupied by my up coming mid-terms and crap.

[RobT5580]

:sadwave: Well i had my AEM certified tuner up saturday from North Carolina to setup the EMS and fire the car up. And we fired the car and it sounded like it was running on 3 cylinders and knocking bad. So we did a leak down test and cylinder 3 would never close. So after blowing $550 for the tune which turned out to be 12 hours of trouble shooting and setting a base map. Today i pulled the cams to do an accurate leak down test and cylinder 3 the intake valves are bent for sure and cylinder 4 leaks but not as bad. So after checking everything out and i know the timing was perfect because i was at the machine shop when it was set im guessing the valves were not set properly. So i have to fight with the machine shop and im probably going to pull the whole engine back out. Im so mad because i know the machine shop is going to give me a run around on top of the intake valves were custom cut by ferrea so thats going to be atleast a week downtime plus $45 each valve. I have a spare head but i dont want to half ass my engine just to see it run.

The only good part of saturday was going for a quick ride with Steve (88Lxi68) and having a new civic SI HB back up at a traffic light to try and run him. If the guy was all on it then steve had him off the line but we were stuck behind a car so steve had to stop.

The tuner from NC is amazing with the EMS and is said to be the best on the east coast so i have no doubts with him and watching him make a base map he certainly knows what he is doing. The bad thing is he is far away and i will have to get him back out here again to finish the car but i can start the car myself since i have a base map now. Hopefully i get some time to work this out and get the car started before winter sets in. This is what i get for not waiting for my first choice machine shop that built Steves LS/Vtec. I am still on a waiting list from july so that just goes to show that they are slammed because they do go work.

Oh well i had to vent a little since im back to square one with a lot of money down the drain and a empty pocket.

[A20A1]

Awe, thats no good. Well I still admire all the effort you're putting into this. :D

[Vanilla Sky]

damn... luck around here is running thin... i say that we all need to park our cars for a while and go into a large bomb shelter...

i hope you can get your shop to repair what they farked up... if they set it up wrong, then i think they should AT LEAST cover the labour cost... hope you can AT LEAST get that out of them...

[RobT5580]

I did expect to have problems which we had 2 other problems one with the AEM CDI ignition and the other was the exhaust cam sensor. But those were simple and were easily fixed with a MSD 6AL and re-wiring the sensor. I never expected to have a mechanical problems like this. And the funny thing about the whole thing is the machinist wanted to assemble the engine so he knew it was done right and could warranty it. So he is going to be mad when he gets a phone call tomorrow with my problems. He already had to pay for a new crower intake cam that he snapped in half when he didnt check for the ARP head stud clearance.


I want to get to break in my engine before i park her for winter. The sad part is the tune most likely would have gone well without this problem. I was nervous of other issues since i converted to OBD1 and using the EMS. You live and learn and i know now its worth waiting even though i thought i was doing the right thing and bought the best parts but its all worthless with a bad machine shop. I feel partly responcible since i pressured the shop to finish it and he probably didnt check things that he would have normally done but he had it 2 extra months.

[RobT5580]

Im not going to pay another dime of labor and im going to fight him on the parts since he set it all up and set the valves and all. Im already out $550 for the tune plus my time to pull it all back apart. Next time i know where im going and that is Carlquist Competition Engines. They are expensive and usually have a waiting period but they are a top notch shop in my eyes. Steves LS/Vtec is a great example and its been running strong for over a year now.

[RobT5580]

Here are more recent pictures of the engine.
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid142/p54ef23dd33ab692a69c9f94ffa8be763/f6b232ad.jpg

http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid142/p457c29bef1ca6169dcc500679c962652/f6b2316f.jpg
My full 3" mandrel bent exhaust

As some of you may read in the off topic i had some major problems when we fired her up for the first time. The valves hit the pistons and bent some valves. Im still stumped on how it happened because i was at the machine shop when the timing was set and i didnt think the valves could be that far out of adjustment although the machine shop said he set the valves. So sure enough i have to pull the engine and bring it back although i dont really want to. One word to you guys make sure you know the machine shop well i went with this shop due to it being highly recommended on honda-tech because my first choice shop has a waiting list that still would not have taken my engine. Iv been on the list for that shop since july and still have not gotten in but they are worth the wait as i see now. Next time i will wait even if its rediculous because now im out a lot of money and im sure im going to have to fight with the shop.

On the good side i have a base map for the AEM EMS and have everything i need other than the tuner is 10 hours away. So i can fire the car up hopefully when the valve issue is settled then i have to wait for my tuner to come back up. I can say im impressed with the EMS and would recommend it to anyone who can afford it. But you need a good tuner that knows the EMS and my tuner was worth having come up although this happeded. So learn from my mistake and don't go to a shop unless you seen first hand how thier work is.

[adams86lxi]

As some of you may read in the off topic i had some major problems when we fired her up for the first time. The valves hit the pistons and bent some valves. Im still stumped on how it happened because i was at the machine shop when the timing was set and i didnt think the valves could be that far out of adjustment although the machine shop said he set the valves. So sure enough i have to pull the engine and bring it back although i dont really want to. One word to you guys make sure you know the machine shop well i went with this shop due to it being highly recommended on honda-tech because my first choice shop has a waiting list that still would not have taken my engine. Iv been on the list for that shop since july and still have not gotten in but they are worth the wait as i see now. Next time i will wait even if its rediculous because now im out a lot of money and im sure im going to have to fight with the shop.

On the good side i have a base map for the AEM EMS and have everything i need other than the tuner is 10 hours away. So i can fire the car up hopefully when the valve issue is settled then i have to wait for my tuner to come back up. I can say im impressed with the EMS and would recommend it to anyone who can afford it. But you need a good tuner that knows the EMS and my tuner was worth having come up although this happeded. So learn from my mistake and don't go to a shop unless you seen first hand how thier work is.


damn dude thats sucks, i hope you get it fixed soon!

[smufguy]

im deeply sorry about what happened rob. WIth the school and stuff this is not a headache u wish for. But i know for sure that it will turn out to be good. I am suprised it even hit the valves. How much lift and compression ratio u got so far?

[88LXi68]

Goes to show you good machine shops are hard to find.

[Justin86]

Thats why I try to do all the work my self, incase shit like this happens.

[88turboaccord]

Hope everything goes well.. It happens with custom made stuff. I should know, I delt with it for many years.. Now I have a few cars that have "parts" that are all ready tried and tested..

[RobT5580]

Im stumped right now and so is the machinist. I checked the cam gears since that was my first thought but they match the stock ones fine. The valves were all normal size and not oversized. Unless the head and block were shaved a lot i dont see how but i will find out soon when it all comes apart. Hopefully its taken care of soon and i can get the ems tuner back out here before it snows again.

And i agree Justin being the first to try stuff sucks but everything was to factory specs so i never anticipated problems with the engine. Its nice to be original but it comes at a price.

[Mike's89AccordLX]

Man the only thing that I could think of is that the crank pulley and cam gear weren't set right. I know when I did my fiances car there were some dots that had to be either on top or on the bottom and then you set the timing belt. If the crank pulley was off like 90 degrees it would cause the valves to come in contact with the pistons. 180 degrees you would still be fine and it wouldn't cause damage but you get the point. That's the only thing I can think of right now.

That really sucks man I know you have spent so much time and money to get it right and now it just hit the fan anyways.

-Mike

P.S. good luck man!

[thegreatdane]

Mike, if his machinist didnt even know how to align the cam gears and crank gear he would have to be a pretty poor machinist.

At least now you know that it fires up with the EMS.

[RobT5580]

I was their when he did the timing because we had problems with my crower cams. I know for a fact that the timing was right and i even checked it again when it was at home when i re-installed the timing cover. At this point im clueless and im probably going to pull the whole engine so i can be assured this wont happen again. The machine shop does a fair amount of honda work and i was referred to them from honda-tech members since my original shop was backed up.

And as for the EMS i was expecting that to give me the most trouble since i converted it to OBD1 but that was the easy part. The only issues i had was with the exhaust cam sensor and the aem cdi ignition. Other than that i think it would have gone fine. So hopefully i can pull it or atleast the head next week and work from there and resolve this soon.

[88turboaccord]

are the cam gears stock? If not compare them with the stock, maybe you don't have enought teeth on the new cam gears, also check the crank gear, any of those that have too many teeth or not enough will cause the motor to not run right. There are soooooo many things that can be wrong, all you can do is go through them one by one... good luck, and remember you have to enjoy what you are doing, or don't do it at all...

[AccordEpicenter]

aww rob... i hear ya man... i can relate on alot of levels on how things are supposed to work right but it takes multiple attempts to get stuff to work the way its supposed to, both of us have had stuff take alot longer than we thought to get our accords together... hang in there man youll get it together

[smufguy]

i believe one exception is Jean his B20 started up and ran fine and i remember him saying that his cam gears were the exact part number as the USDM F22 cam gears.

Rob do u think the camshaft could have been the projblem? Cause seems like everything from the timing was done right under ur supervision, but just the #3 cyl crapped out. U think the shaft was ground wrong? or the valves installed was wrong?. Seems like it was the lift that fucked up the valves for that cyl alone.

[RobT5580]

I have the stock cams in the car and the cam gears are exactly the same so thats not the case and the lower sprocket is right so thats out of the question. Cylinder 4 also is leaking so im stumped. Supposidly the valve train all went in perfectly but it was all exactly the same.

So i guess i wont find out the verdict until i pull the head off next week if i get some time. I guess im glad i didnt run the crowers right away because that would have been my first thought.

[88turboaccord]

Did the machine shop that did the work on the head have a flow bench, or some sort of pressure equipment. I remember at my old college when I had automotive class, they had a machine to where I could pressureize each individual cylinder head to see the percentage of leak down. Sorry, I am just throwing stuff in the air.

The Head gasket is okay???? I had to replace that before after a re-build because it was defective (was not happy about that.)

did you use aftermarket pistons, rods? Were they measured properly. Sorry rob for the questions, I know you have aftermarket stuff, just thought I would ask..

[RobT5580]

No the questions are good because you know more than i do and im clueless. I guess i could be wrong about the valves but it was clanking and with the cams out and doing a leak down test with compressed air and cylinder 3 is real bad and 4 is leaking. One and two seemed ok but its hard to say since the rings are not seated yet.

I have pauter rods and wiseco pistons (8.5:1Comp) which is my next quess but i asked the machinist today and he said they were fine. So i guess i will pull the head when i get back next week to see what happened. Oh and the head gasket is copper with the block o-ringed.

Thanks for the suggestions and i will let you know what i find when i pull the head.

[Neuspeed87lx]

oh man im sorry to hear about that rob. ... i know what your going threw trust me ... after my lsvtec was put it and started .... it made that god awfull bearing knock .... its not a good feeling ... dont let this get you down .... it will all be worth it in the end ....goodluck man

[RobT5580]

Well i just looked at my spare block and the piston sit at the top of the deck and i know my wiseco's sat just a hair below the deck giving a tad more clearance. And the only way i can consieve the valves hitting the pistons is with the timing being off. So maybe im wrong and i blew a copper o-ring but im still skeptically because the leak down test seemed to show and open intake valve by the sound of the air flow. Who knows i will find out soon enough what the damage is but im still at a loss here of time and money and hopefully its the machinist's fault which i don't see otherwise.

[carotman]

Like I replied in your PM, set the engine at TDC and see if the piston it REALLY at the top. Then, check the cam. there should be no pressure on both intake and exhaust valves. You do the same procedure with every cylinder.. That's a good way to determine if the timing was off. Of course, the valves could open or close too early also.

I just know how you feel right now. I was a bit scared to start my B20A after the rebuild but everything went fine except for the clogged injector but that was not the machinist's fault....

Keep us updated!!

[RobT5580]

I will double check that if i dont see the problem with the head off but we did check the TDC with the cam timing and it was fine. But the leak down test dont lie when the cams are out all the valves should be closed and unless the headgasket blew which i wish was the case im still doubfull since the compressed air blew out the inlet filter for the turbo.

I wish i had a bad injector! LOL

[Coroncho80]

Rob .......... You should of gone stock! lol

[RobT5580]

This is what i get for not doing a ghetto! LOL.....Im dying to pull the head off and i wanted to do it tonight but i forgot i have to undo the turbo manifold and stuff. I am clueless but if i did bend some valves i want to know how because i cant thing of any concept that would justify the timing to be that far off. Damn mid-terms are killing me and i will be out of state until sunday then my last mid-term is monday night so hopefully tuesday i will have the full spec on damage.

****I think i may actually know what happened now. I just got off the phone with my friend Nick that is a master mechanic and my car was at his shop when this happened. I totally forgot about how he snapped my intake cam but like Nick said he proabably set the head on w/o it set at TDC and bent the intake valve/snapped the cam because it was out of timing. This is just a theory but it makes so much more sence now because the car fired up on 3 cylinders to begin with and if the cam timing was the issue then all the valves would have this problem. I sure hope this is right because it make a hell of a lot more sense to me and explains why he broke a cam shaft. And i just went to look at my crowers and they are much bigger lobes giving much less room for timing errors. So im quite sure i got my answer now i just got to confront the machinist and get him to fix it.

[smufguy]

wow, i would love to see a pic of a broken camshaft. Never seen or heard of one. You are first in breaking a cam shaft too bro. Nice touch :D.

I hear you about the midterms and stuff. I dont wanna say i pity you, but i fell very bad because you are in the middle of soo many important things going on in your life. All i can say is that you got my good wishes and my prayers bro. You will defenitely get this thing going.

[RobT5580]

He broke it at the shop spinning it by hand so im pretty sure that would be when the piston hit the valves. I hear of people breaking vtec cams once in awhile but not ls cams although this was because of human error.

It just makes me mad because my car most likely would be running right now and i would be happy and not as stressed. I have been good about not touching the car and studying but the problem bothered me until last night since there was no explanation. But no that i know why im quite sure when i get the head off it will show a severely bent set of valves in cylinder 3 and partially in 4. Im also going to fight to get some money back to pay for the AEM tune since it was the machinists stupidity. I would not normally pass the blame like this since i supplied the parts but when you do this for a living and know you using very aggressive cams with a higher lift and the timing marks dont line up to begin with then you have a problem. At that point he should have called me and asked for the stock cams and gears. I know i certainly would have worried about what happened and im by far no expert.

[Civvy]

I broke a B20 cam too!! LOL but, i was being idiotic, instead of being patient and removing the caps one by one (u know they'r stuck sometimes) i removed the timing sensor and inserted a screwdriver inside the cam and lifted a few caps off then snap!
That was the day i learned cams are Hollow...doh! ...looked like it was from a 'v' engine
Nevermind tho Rob ure still my idoll, and i forgive u for inflicting this amount of pain to us all!!
My silly elimination questions.
Skimmed too far?
Gasket too thin + skimming?
Rods too long?
Mark on new flywheel in the right place?
Wrist pins sit in the same place on the pistons as stock?

[L3G10N]

Rob, wich cam gear do you take for your engine? I mean, from wich engine?

i was supposed to do some custom camgear with my oem b20a camgear.

have you changed all the other gear to fit your adjustable camgear?

[smufguy]

Rob, wich cam gear do you take for your engine? I mean, from wich engine?

i was supposed to do some custom camgear with my oem b20a camgear.

have you changed all the other gear to fit your adjustable camgear?

Carotman got it from the USDM 4th gen accord, the F22 motor. Its a SOHC by the way.

[RobT5580]

Actually carotman has my old ones that Mike Lee had custom made and im running the 90-93 Accord gears. They are not the problem and they are a direct match. My problem was caused by the machine shop not being careful with the aggresive Crower cams that i had in the b20a when he was setting it up. They were slightly off degree wise and my theory is he was off a bit and thats how he snapped my intake crower cam. He told me it was from a head stud but i know that is not how it happened. So im going to start pulling the head tonight since i just flew back home from Michigan. I hope to get it back to the shop on tuesday so he can order the valves he damaged. Somewhat i blame myself but even im not stupid enough to turn an engine over when the timing does not line up. Plus the crowers had a lot more lift on them increasing the contact risk. I totally blame him for not calling me because i would have swapped them out right away which is what i did when i saw the problem before i picked it up. So this was done before the engine even left the shop.

[truetune]

damn, man Im sorry to hear about the set back. you must really not trust that shop now. your setup is awe inspiring, just total awesome.

[wprocomp]

what valve springs are you using?

[RobT5580]

The valve train is all from Ferrea and im still trying to fix the problem so i can get it running. Hopefully friday i can put the head back on and do another leak down test. I have a feeling though i have a serious problem that may resort to me using my spare block but i have to pin point the problem first. So hopefully things go better than they have and i can get this worked out. Even though its a good thing no valves are damaged (or appear to be) i would have preffered to have a bad valve and know what my problem was. Now im back at the drawing board trying to figure out what is going on.

[mykwikcoupe]

well rob have you figured it out yet or is there still too much going on to pull the motor? Just curious is all. good luck.

Do you have any advice for me, Im revamping the turbo prject, Im going with the same header with the t25 flange but rather than us ehte TA34 tom sold the kit with Im going to use the DISCO POTATO gt28rs. Ill go stock compression, stanless valves, eagle rods, aftermarket pistons, new sleeves and all that block prep (wet kit or dry kit for the sleeves?) Should i go wioth the obd1 or stick with it the way it is? Whats your favorite emu? You used aem obviously. thanks man and good luck

[Civvy]

am i right in thinking with OBD1 we can tune it with the laptop? there fore u would use OBD1 to retard the timing under boost hence thats why u'd need it?
I thought we couldn't resleeve the our B20? thought i'd heard it was closed deck?
Sorry to but in mykwikcoupe, i'm also doing this route B20turbo and since there's little for us b20's i thought i'd ask.
Also, the Boomslang harness converts our harness at the ecu end right? 2 to 3 plugs.

[mykwikcoupe]

as far as resleeving goes, I was under the impression they'd just hone out the stocker sleeves and press new ones in. I could be misinformed. Wouldnt be the first time. Whats all involved with the obd1 conversion? New sensors or just changing pins around? Whats a boomslang harness? I just finished looking at the aem ems site and theres no application for our cars of corse. Which one is the proper one? Sounds like a sweet unit, no extra boost controller, no extra costs for the datalogging, timing mods, and all that jazz.

which turbo and what power are you looking for civvy? how far along are you. I know I started about the same time rob did and man am I jealous. I took a back seat to life and just starting to get back into my projects only this time with a bdget in mind

[Elijah]

Wow Rob I wanted to cry for you when I started to read this.Well it's the game.I know some of us know the feeling of being let down.And yes you should have been ghetto like me LOL.I love my little gforce and spool and bov.I swear if I never had the wife and kids I would live in my car for those reasons LOL.

[Civvy]

I'm in the middle of a EFI swap so a mile bhind u i should think but, knowledge i have is from PGMFI.org and 3g ludes over on preludepower.com.
I know nothing about aem ems? what is it?
I'm planning to run the stock engine on about 6-7 psi. read the how to on the 3gLude forum too.

[mykwikcoupe]

the original kit i bought was set up to run about 9 spi. i think its just not going to be enough for me so Im going more boost. If you want you can send me a pm if your interested in my kit. new in box ready to bolt on complete with hks evc4, apexi safc, tial 35mm wastegate, hks ssbov, manifold, turbo, upgraded downpipe, oil lines, the whole nine just need tio install it. if not ill piece it together with new parts to finish in a different direction

Sorry to hijack your thread rob. if you want I can start another. The aem ems is the new ecu youd use for tunning the engine. If lets your control and setup everything

[RobT5580]

Mike, I would do the obd1 conversion so you could run a better ecu and you can use a chipped stock honda ecu from an obd1 car if you want to save money. Tuning is the key when it comes to boost so you should make your tuning as easy as possible. There are many ways to do it but you have to work within your budget. I highly recommend a wideband O2 and if you not using a logging laptop then get the aem gauge type so you can read you air/fuel acurately.

I pulled the head and everything looked good valve wise but i know it had to be leaking from the valves. The machinist said it still can be bent and im running ferrea dual valve springs that are stiffer. So he is going to pull the valves and check for bent ones. If it comes back the same i will bolt it on and do another leak down test and if that fails i will mess with the stock b20a i have. But the compressed air was blowing right out the inlet filter on the turbo even with the cams out which closed all the valves so it was defintaly coming from an open valve. This is what i get for not using the shop i wanted to because i know they would have checked every clearance etc and would have modified the crower cams to work/fit the way they should have.

As for the EMS im amazed with what i saw so far. Its a new ECU with data logging and is fully upgradable when new versions come out. It has many features such as built in boost control, sensor readouts for trouble shooting, AFR logging, and a lot more good stuff. Basically you can control almost anything like your fan control can be changed to however long you want it to run and when. So i hope things get take care of soon so i can attempt to start it.

[Civvy]

Cracked head?

[RobT5580]

Well i guess its good news that no valves are bent but that leads me now to think the head gasket is leaking between chambers 3 & 4. Im running out of ideas hear and went on some assumptions before and all were wrong. But i do know the leak down test don't like cylinder 3 was leaking bad. So im going to bolt just the head on and do another test this time no manifolds so i can hopefully pin point the problem. I did notice the copper o-rings and im not pleased at how cylinder 3 was seated. Some parts were low and others high so that could be my problem at this point. And as far as a cracked head i dont see any signs of that and the compressed air cam out of the exhaust manifold meaning and open valve. And that would hold true if it is leaking bad between those two cylinders.

So if it is the copper o-ring im going to go with the original plan and run the stock gasket. But the machine shop will have to machine my spare block because i cant use a stock headgasket with the oring. I kinda prefer to do this because i dont think his o-ring job was good enough and i want to eliminate Mike Lee's over bore so i dont have piston slap when its cold.

[mykwikcoupe]

well rob im kinda glad to hear it wasnt the head but I know it doesnt help hearing that your unhapppy with the work you had done to it in the first place. Is it because of the rush or just poor quality from the shops? Youd certainly be the one to know, is it possible to resleeve the b20a even though its a closed deck?

http://www.goldeneaglemfg.com/sleeving.html

[RobT5580]

Yeah, Surprisingly this shop is known to be good at sleeving honda blocks. That is actually what he does with all honda blocks until he saw mine was closed deck. As for the o-ring i can say it was not neither of our main choices. I wanted the 3 layer metal but cometic wont produce it so i had a copper made just in-case and that is what he wanted to use as a back up. But i feel confident the OEM honda one will be fine so if i have a problem then thats what will happen. The o-ring process was a pain and its not something they do very often. The job should not have been a rush job given he took 3 months (Should have been one month) but i showed up frequently to make sure i was not getting the run around.

So hopefully i get a legitamate answer soon on what went wrong and the only thing i could concieve of is maybe a valve was stuck open. But i have a plan if the o-ring is the problem and i would prefer to start fresh and the machine work will be straight forward on that so he shouldnt be able to screw that up. Next time i will wait for the other shop and pay the extra money even if this was not my shops error. I just didnt like the run arounds and crap granted most shops dont meet deadlines in this business. So if i can find time this weekend i will slap the head on and do some tests.

Oh word of advise if you ever sleeve a block use the best company possible. I have heard nightmare stories of sleeves sinking if dont wrong. I hear golden eagle is good but you should be able to find other shops on the west coast just make sure you see living proof of a good job.

[maxoutracer]

now were talking!

[RobT5580]

Found out i have some bad rings in cylinder 3 and 4 so im going to take advantage of this and start over with my spare block. This block came from Mike Lee and have a bigger bore than i want so im going to start fresh. I assume the rings got washed out from when he tried to get his car running and then us trying to start my car. I did ask the shop to check everything on Mike's block and wish this was not over looked. So hopefully i will get it back in a week or so depending on when i get the rings.

[smufguy]

wow thats funny because of bad sealing around the pistons, the whole cylinder leaked. the fucking PCV system works.!!!!!!! well atleast u know that works :D

[Civvy]

you gona use total seals then?

[RobT5580]

The funny thing is i thought it was the valves for sure because the air was pouring out through the inlet filter on the turbo but i have a moroso oil catch can in my PCV system and i have it setup with the air filter piping. But when i did the test yesterday when i put the head on and did another compressed air leak down it was blowing through the oil passages in the head. Then going out the inlet for the new PCV setup shown here:
http://www.beesandgoats.com/boostfaq/PCV_turbo_2fit.jpg

I looked at Total Seal and i was trying to get suggestions since i never had to buy just rings before. So any input on ring selection is welcome.

[RobT5580]

I got the B20A running today so i can try to get some miles on her if it dont snow. I pulled the turbo and the EMS so i can break her in w/o boost this way when my tuner comes back we wont have any surprises. Everything seems good except i have to re-adjust the valves. Hopefully it will be nice next week so i can do a few long drives to get the miles on it but i did see some possible snow this weekend.

[Coroncho80]

That's what I'm talking about Rob. Let's see some pics of the car with the motor in.

[RobT5580]

It looks like shit because i had to make a ghetto intake since i tossed my stock stuff in the garbage and i just slapped a dirty teg distributor on. I should get some pictures next week if its nice out. Im going to take it to my friends shop to adjust the valves and check it all over. Im looking for a new intake manifold (aftermarket B16) with TB and IAC so i can get rid of my A20 one. So hopefully everything goes well with the break in process then get the AEM setup soon or when the weather breaks for the better in the spring.

[Elijah]

Nice about time. I should be ready for spring to. I hope its pretty much up to the machine shop for me now. And we all know how they can be.

[AccordEpicenter]

Sweet rob you should make some vids and post em when you can :)

[88LXi68]

Congrats rob...I guess thats the best christmas gift you could get.

[Neuspeed87lx]

glad to hear that rob !

[SteveDX89]

Awesome dude. I bet a huge weight has been lifted off your shoulders. I can't wait until you put the turbo back on, dyno it, and run some track times. I wanna see how fast this bastard is. :thumbup:

[Strugglebucket]

It looks like shit because i had to make a ghetto intake since i tossed my stock stuff in the garbage and i just slapped a dirty teg distributor on. I should get some pictures next week if its nice out. Im going to take it to my friends shop to adjust the valves and check it all over. Im looking for a new intake manifold (aftermarket B16) with TB and IAC so i can get rid of my A20 one. So hopefully everything goes well with the break in process then get the AEM setup soon or when the weather breaks for the better in the spring.
it looks like shit?! i've seen the pics, i bet you could take a dump on the valve cover and that engine would still look good.

[RobT5580]

Thanks guys and its the best christmas gift i could ask for with the problems iv had. Its nice to finaly get to drive a B20A after having two at my house for almost two years now. I should have did this in the first place just to get some miles on it and things seated. I put about 50 miles on her tonight and everything was fine other than the noisy valves. Oh and my speedometer is off a bit because i have the accord speed sensor in it.

It looks like crap because i slapped a dirty distributor and cylinder sensor on their and got a ugly brown dist cap from autozone on it. On top of that a mess of vacuum lines since i could not fit the vacuum rail on with my fuel rail. I will take some pictures next week when i do the valve adjustments again. So im glad i spent yesterday in the rain/50 degree weather then today in the low 20's to get this done it was well worth the drive.

[AccordEpicenter]

yeah break it in without boost for a few hundred miles then boost it (with a good basemap :) ) then rape it

[RobT5580]

Im going to run it for about 1000 miles then get ready for boost. I wish i didnt have to deal with winter because im loving how it feels compared to the A20A3. I just got back from another trip and you can definately feel the torque and HP difference. Im going to fix the valves tommorow and the upper rear mount is clanking when i shift for some reason. I put all new mounts in and changed the rubber in the upper mount so i have to try to fill the mount with something to keep it from moving.

[RobT5580]

Im bored and procrastinating so I figured i would post some pictures of my b20a progress. Im working on the Edelbrock Victor X B16 manfiold, Edelbrock ITR throttle body, and shortly a 90-93 Integra Fluidyne aluminum radiator.

Before
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid142/p54ef23dd33ab692a69c9f94ffa8be763/f6b232ad.jpg

Now (in progress)
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid157/pc4381c1c597796a663e8c6e9e1c5c1ef/f5238957.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid157/p8bae8515f3fb7747bbbe30189f6fc29f/f5238952.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid157/pf9239cb037eddc24e7b6e887dd3ce7d9/f523894b.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid157/pe1489c209718db381726a20cdbe142e6/f5238942.jpg

Don't mind the mess i was test fitting stuff and pulling the engine in and out so its a mess. Im going to fire the car with the accord ecu and new IM/TB to make sure everything is ok then i will put the turbo stuff back on. Im also re routing wires and removing stuff i dont need like the black box so hopefully in the end you wont see much wire and garbage on the fire wall area and fender wells. My tuner is coming back in march so hopefully it goes well then i can hit the dyno for you guys.

[adams86lxi]

Awesome rob!!!! cant wait till you get that thing running at it best and put down some numbers!!!

[AccordEpicenter]

i cant wait to see what youre gonna put down on that car rob, i think its gonna be sick. I bet youre gonna gain alot of top end with that intake mani

[RobT5580]

Tell me about it i should of had it running in october but stuff happens. Iv been working on it every friday and i forgot i only have 3 weeks before spring break then my tuner is coming. So i have to get a lot done these next 3 weeks since i lost track of time. I was planning on spraying the engine bay now but i still have more fab work and not enough time so it will wait. So if the car runs ok on the accord ECU i will put the AEM EMS and try to figure out why i dont have spark. My car ran on the EMS before but when i tried to fire it i had no spark so hopefully i clear that up to save time with my tuner. I think its my coil output on the EMS but i have 5 outputs so i just have to change it. The good thing is i have all the parts paid for that im using on the engine so when this is done i can work on other things finally.

[nswst8]

I like your style. :rockon: Can't wait to see it in full swing.

[HostileJava]

Looks really great Rob, you really do go the extra mile with everything to make it look it's best, I wish I had that much cash to drop into my car. Can't wait to see it.

[RobT5580]

I got annoyed with all the crap under the hood so im trying to get rid/hide as much as i can. The black box will get rid of the biggest clutter under the hood. Hopefully everything goes well over the next few weeks so i can hit the dyno soon.

[Lok]

Nice job Rob, Congrats, but the EDELBROCK Manifold is for High rpm applications like
newer VTEC engines like B16A TURBO 2nd stage ,a good manifold for 9000-10000rpm
applications. For B20A TURBO, I think the best manifold is the B16A with
ITR THROTTLE BODY, Good for 300-350hp , if you plan to go above that level ( higher boost) then you need larger THROTTLE BODY.
The B16A manifold is the best for max 7000-8000rpm applications.

[RobT5580]

I looked at all my options and my tuner has tuned hundreds of boosted honda's and this was his first pick even with the lower revs. If it were n/a i would not have gotten it. I was just gonna get the skunk 2 manifold which is similar to the ITR one but id listen to someone who has done a handful of 500+ hp honda's and is known to be one of the best tuners on the east coast (using the AEM EMS). So hopefully things work out in my favor and i lay down between 300-400hp. I based this off of some B20A5 setups that are in the upper 3's that are similar to my setup.

[Coroncho80]

Very good stuff Rob .... What size injectors are you running again?

[RobT5580]

I still have the 550's hopefully that will do with my hi-boost setting. If not i will swap them out later.

[Vanilla Sky]

what size is that TB?

[RobT5580]

A 65mm I could have gone larger but believe you need a spacer for the larger edelbrock's and I figured this one is fine for what i want out of this car.

[Hash_man_Se_i]

Looks good rob, those edelbrock manifolds are pretty beastly... Can't wait to see what this spring and summer will bring for your accord.

[RobT5580]

Thanks, I really wanted the BBK manifold but the GSR wont fit so i went with what my tuner recommended. Hopefully it goes well im worried about axles and my head gasket holding up but only time will tell and i have a resolution for both if they come up.

[YK86]

I haven't been on here for a while but damn, nice to see your almost there. Sweet looking set up! Can't wait to see how it turns out after everything is done. Your hard work is definetly paying off.

[carotman]

Coooool

I can't wait to put mine on too!

As for the "high Rpms" I thing it's a misconception to think this manifold will not be good to our car.

Let's compare this with a B16A

A B16A is a 1.6L engine. Each turn a piston will suck air in. So let's say it sucks .4L each turn. At 9000 PRM, this engine will suck 3600 cc of air (if everything is ideal) The B20A will do the same at 7200.

This means that both stock engines will do the same at their peak PRM (the B20A with the Pk2 ecu cuts à 7200).

This manifold is intended to be ABLE to go at those amounts of revs. it doesn't mean it sucks before this.

[Coroncho80]

I still have the 550's hopefully that will do with my hi-boost setting. If not i will swap them out later.

550's will be maxed out by 350 whp. You will need bigger injectors to safetly reach your goal of 400 whp and have more room for upgrades.

[RobT5580]

Damn, Yasu its been a long time! Hope everything is well with you and hows your b20a coming. Mine should have been running in october but a few issues came up. And maurice i didnt know what to get when i was shopping for injectors and thought this was plenty but its not a big deal mine are still basically brand new. If i knew what i was doing i would have gotten the 1000cc's since you can scale it down with the AEM. And for the intake manifold the b20a head is not really comparible to other heads since our intake valves are the size of the H22 valves which no b-series has. So it will certainly flow more air in than a typical b givin the rpm range is similar.

[guaynabo89]

Im bored and procrastinating so I figured i would post some pictures of my b20a progress. Im working on the Edelbrock Victor X B16 manfiold, Edelbrock ITR throttle body, and shortly a 90-93 Integra Fluidyne aluminum radiator.

Before
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid142/p54ef23dd33ab692a69c9f94ffa8be763/f6b232ad.jpg

Now (in progress)
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid157/pc4381c1c597796a663e8c6e9e1c5c1ef/f5238957.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid157/p8bae8515f3fb7747bbbe30189f6fc29f/f5238952.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid157/pf9239cb037eddc24e7b6e887dd3ce7d9/f523894b.jpg
http://www.imagestation.com/picture/sraid157/pe1489c209718db381726a20cdbe142e6/f5238942.jpg

Don't mind the mess i was test fitting stuff and pulling the engine in and out so its a mess. Im going to fire the car with the accord ecu and new IM/TB to make sure everything is ok then i will put the turbo stuff back on. Im also re routing wires and removing stuff i dont need like the black box so hopefully in the end you wont see much wire and garbage on the fire wall area and fender wells. My tuner is coming back in march so hopefully it goes well then i can hit the dyno for you guys.

Good job. Cant wait till I put mine on. Seeing yours makes me wish I had gotten the polished version.

Hey I got the teg rad in and it looks like the dimensions are almost exact as the Accord except its like an inch shorter width wise. Next thin Is findin a fan to mount on the rad. I've been ooking at the black Magic ones from flexalite since they come with a shroud and then usint the stock ac fan on the teg one.

Anyway glad to see your getting time to work on your projects. Wish I could be doing the same. :sad2:

[Mike's89AccordLX]

Man I really hope your car works out for you. I think everyone on this site is praying for it to work out for you man! You have put so much time and $$$ into that thing and I just have to say that your car deserves to be one of the best 3G accords on this earth. Maybe you can come down here and race Johnny O's 3G to see who has the fastest one :) Get some racing slicks too!

[NXRacer]

hey rob, i just noticed you had the stock exhaust manifold in the picture with the new IM. going NA now????? :kekeke:

[RobT5580]

Guaynabo, Thanks for the info im still waiting on my radiator as it was on back order. If it comes by thursday i will fit it on friday and let you know what needs to be done.

Mike, I think Jonny has me beat and im sure his reaction times alone will kill me. Perhaps i should let him run my car so i can see how well it will really do in the 1/4(LOL). I dont think it will feel complete until the paint comes. The body is killing me but with the fab work it needs to be last and it should be nice if i do everything i plan to do.

NX, I decided to break it N/A so when my tuner comes back I dont have any worries. To my surprise i didnt have any problems (leaks, etc) so if i didnt have the problem the car would have gone well. I want to test the TB/IM with the stock stuff just in case I cant start it with the EMS to be sure thats ok before my tuner comes. So hopefully this time things are different but if all else fails I will have it tuned by someone local but I think it will be fine. Im gonna do a compression check and stuff before i put the turbo on just to be sure everything is fine but it ran well N/A for the 750 miles i put on it in dec/jan.

With my fingers crossed you might see a dyno sheet late march if all goes well.

[AccordEpicenter]

youre gonna need some sticky tires man

[guaynabo89]

Guaynabo, Thanks for the info im still waiting on my radiator as it was on back order. If it comes by thursday i will fit it on friday and let you know what needs to be done.

.


Looks like just the top and lower mounting studs need to be repositioned. Bottom ones spaced farther apart and top spaced colser together. It will be a snug fit from top to bottom and you might need to bend the lip back flat on the upper raiator support piece to be able to fit it. The teg has a raised hump almost all the way Across the top compared to the Accords which is only raised in the middle.

And of course the overflow tank hose barb points in the opposite direction but thats not a big deal.

The lower rad hose outlet is almost in the exact place as the Accord and the top sits a little closer to the pass side compared to the Accord but thats no big deal either.

Imight have to weld some nuts on it to be able to mount the ac condensor fan and find the teg main fan rather than makin the Accord main fan fit the teg rad.

Overall its pretty much cake to make fit compared to other things ive done

Oh and this is for the 90-93 teg rad

[RobT5580]

Sounds good cant wait to get mine. I was going to cut the lower support ears off and reweld those but if the top posts are off maybe i will just move the posts instead.

Oh i have the spal 12" slim fan and i believe someone on honda-tech is selling them pretty cheap. They do make a dual fan setup with shroud but its like $300 or so. Im just going to use the slim fan and if i ever put the ac back i will get a 2nd fan.

[guaynabo89]

Sounds good cant wait to get mine. I was going to cut the lower support ears off and reweld those but if the top posts are off maybe i will just move the posts instead.

Oh i have the spal 12" slim fan and i believe someone on honda-tech is selling them pretty cheap. They do make a dual fan setup with shroud but its like $300 or so. Im just going to use the slim fan and if i ever put the ac back i will get a 2nd fan.

Yeah I think its alot easier to pay someone to weld em were you need em rather than having to take your car somewhere to get those tabs welded. Besides the posts are already welded on.

Oh I got a good deal on a Griffin radiator so thats what I got. Quality seems to be top notch. http://griffinrad.com/index.php
Those fans are rather pricey. If I cant find one for a good price I might just get the stock teg fan.

How cheap is cheap for the ones over on honda-tech ?

[RobT5580]

I want to say $59 for a 12"spal but i cant find it since I saw it in someone's sig and someone mentioned it in a thread. As for the welding part iv been learning on a mig at my friends shop and those would be easy to do. He has a tig but its not working so if i do the posts i can bring it to another friends shop. I want to learn to mig/tig so when ever i get the chance i use the mig but it takes a lot of practice when your teaching yourself.

I got my honda parts today so i can finish up the engine this weekend and if the radiator comes i will be set.

[Coroncho80]

i Paid $90 for my 12" at a local speed shop.

[RobT5580]

I definatly paid around that too maurice. If i find the link i will post it up for you guys that might be interested.

[w00tw00t111]

OMG that is beatiful.

[carotman]

Well, I dunno how good is the fluidyne radiator is but I just got myself a nice aluminium Rad specificaly made for the 3G accord.... I dunno if you guys would want one.

[guaynabo89]

What kind of fans you guys running? brand part# etc.

[thegreatdane]

Well, I dunno how good is the fluidyne radiator is but I just got myself a nice aluminium Rad specificaly made for the 3G accord.... I dunno if you guys would want one.

Let's hear about it.

[YK86]

Damn, Yasu its been a long time! Hope everything is well with you and hows your b20a coming. Mine should have been running in october but a few issues came up.

Yeah, it's been a VERY long time LOL Mine's still sitting in the garage. I'm finding less and less time to work on cars as I get older. Oh well, that's life. I still need to find another 86 or 87 to redo everything on. Anyways, don't want to go off topic. I'll have to pm or email you sometime.

[RobT5580]

Feel free and hopefully in about a month mine will be fully functional with the turbo setup. I know what you mean im trying to take advantage of the time i have now because in may i will be out of school and working full time. Hopefully you can finish yours up soon.

[HostileJava]

Let's hear about it.

:werd:

[Justin86]

oh very purty :D

[SQ is the SQUAD]

can you mail me a spare set of keys to your car, just incase you lose your main set

[RobT5580]

Sure....Just send me a large sum of money and i will think about it.....

I think its sad how much i went without for this damn car. I dont buy clothes that often nor sneakers. Fortunately she is almost there so maybe i can get some savings back in the bank (Yeah right).

[RobT5580]

Well today my tuner came back out and at first we had problems with the JDM B20A distributor so i was able to get a B18A teg dizzy quickly to fix the problem. So the tuning began and then we hit the street with me following in my other car in case. Car was running great worked out a few bugs on the street then hit the highway. They did about 30 miles or more and at the end it started sounding bad. After we got back to the shop it seems like we spun a bearing :sad2: :sad2: . But this is been my luck from the get go. The car seemed fast as hell at 15psi as he blew by me and it sounds pretty sweet.

So my good news seems to bring more bad news but im gonna try to resolve this fast and hopefully get to drive it in the next few weeks. And the bearing is being skeptical but the AEM has very nice data logging with the knock sensor and all the other sensors and we can see where/when it happened so hopefully its not to major.

And i want to thank Steve (88Lxi68) big time for coming on short notice with a friend that had a shit load of distributors and helped us out. I was in a big jam and had to get help fast nevermind being a sunday with not many places open.

[AccordEpicenter]

wow rob sounds like one problem after another... yikes. Did that machine shop of yours check the clearances and what bearings did they use? Good to hear that you got it running and boosted though finally. It should be fast as hell man

[RobT5580]

They were supposed to check it all but im skeptical of what they did since this was the 2nd block and they did it very fast. I used ACL B20A5 bearings which should not have been a problem. If it is the bearings then im kinda stumped because i broke them in and it seemed fine n/a. But on the other hand it went from n/a to hard boost but i will find out when i tear it apart.

I guess i have bad luck but im not throwing in the towel yet perhaps if i didnt see her on the road i probably would have more negative feelings but the sound of it spooling up was crazy and the blow off valve was loud considering i heard it driving 70mph next to it on the highway........Nice run on sentence....LOL

[Neuspeed87lx]

ahh man i feel so bad for you rob... your doing everything right and you still run into problems.... its only a matter of time before its perfect and your ripping around in that monster... it will be worth it in the end ... i hope you luck turns around with that thing

[Neuspeed87lx]

the bearings that were bad in my motor we acl bearings too ! hmmm

[88LXi68]

I had the video camera with me when I came back. I thought Jason was BSing me when he said he spun a bearing.

[RobT5580]

I wish you stayed to see what i did but hopefully i can get it taken care of fast and i definately have the motivation. On a good note the tune is done so i dont have to wait for my tuner to come back as things didnt look so good earlier this afternoon when my distributor crapped out.

Anyone else have input on bearings? Im considering going with some honda bearings this time around but im not sure how that will work out being a B20A crank and the color coding

[88LXi68]

I'll have to check what I have for bearings, but I dont think they are anything special.

[YK86]

That's too bad about the bearing Rob. But good to hear you had it running the way you want it! Just a bit more to go til it's all done (sort of).

[88accordhb]

damn good luck with it rob, hope you get it up and running soon man.

[RobT5580]

Thanks guys, Sometimes it just gets to you but when you try to do something that has not really been done you run into a lot of hang ups which i can say i have. In a way i can laugh about it cause its just been my luck and possibly all because of the shady machine shop. But all i can do is move on and hope for the best but im thankful it tuned because not having my tuner close by sucks but he certainly was worth the time and money invested.

Hopefully next time will be only good news! So you guys can learn from my mistakes and feel free to ask questions i try to be good about getting back to people. I dont hide anything and figure if someone can save time and money from my mistakes by all means take advantage of it.

[mykwikcoupe]

Im using honda bearings. Its no biggy. Just let them now the thickness and theyll tell you the color at the dealership. I get a little discount if you want to use it but youd have to pay for shipping anyway. When I called last to checkon prices for the wifeys b20a which is comming around nicely, They said it was like 95 for the set of rings on all 4 cylinders and like 90-105 on all lower bearings. Its like 7 a half or whatever. oh I forget maybe it was 105 total for rings and bearings. Ill call if you want. If you check hondrcarparts.com its like 20-30% off those

[nswst8]

What a weekend, Sorry to hear the news, Sounds like your getting close though.

I wish I would have known I would have driven up to see everything in action.

Keep the positive attitude, We do learn from our mistakes.

Mad Props to you my friend. :rockon:

[SteveDX89]

Sorry to hear Rob. I know you've tried really hard to get this thing going and it just seems like everything that can go wrong does. I keep having problems too and I just want to give up cause it's one thing after another and the money is tight so I can't actually fix anything. I know you'll bounce back from this setback just like all the others. Hopefully it's running for the next meet, I want to go for a ride.

[RobT5580]

Yeah I will come back from it and im grateful the car was in action so I could see it. Phil I didnt really want to make a scene since last time was a disapointment and this time was almost the same with the distributor issue. Im dreading tearing it down again but i can do it in a day although im going to probably have to go to the machine shop and order the bearings.

[HostileJava]

Yeah I will come back from it and im grateful the car was in action so I could see it. Phil I didnt really want to make a scene since last time was a disapointment and this time was almost the same with the distributor issue. Im dreading tearing it down again but i can do it in a day although im going to probably have to go to the machine shop and order the bearings.

At least you had it on the road and got to see it action. I feel your pain. Hopefully you'll be all set by the next CT meet, and this time my car will be up and running so we don't have to bring the Olds.

[smufguy]

damn rob, i dont know what to say but be hopeful and optimistic for you. Even thru all these hurdles, yo keep going and new issues tracked down. I am very sorry for all the bumps you have to go thru, but hopefully they will all be panned out in the near future. Good luck bro.

[RobT5580]

I cant say i never expected problems but i definately have been discouraged from thinking i was doing it the right way. I have certainly learned a lot and hopefully this can be resolved easily and i can move forward. Sometimes i think i should have done a cheaper setup but there is no turning back now.

[smufguy]

You approached it the right way Rob. I would have not done it any other way either. But since the B20A is something no one has ever seen or experienced before. Mike Lee was in your shoes and he gave up for reasons i cannot try and reason with. He pioneered the B20 lineage by bringing it back but it was an uncharted territory, so i guess for you going the same route with the same route, is a hard task none-the-less. i can only wish it was easier and or to say less troublesome. But i guess its expected and the reward is much greater than all this trouble and im sure of it.

[Justin86]

damn dude no fun but i have been there where everything you do seems to go bad some how. Just got to keep at it and think about all the V8's you will be able to spank. Go with Honda bearings this time and a different shop ;)

[thegreatdane]

If I were you I would have been pissed not getting to drive it myself before it happened.
Did it loose oil pressure when it happened?

[RobT5580]

Yeah the shop sucks and im mad about that whole situation because if i stuck with my plan my car would have been done by now and more likely with no problems. Im sure if the car failed right away i would have been discouraged and let the thing sit until summer but i was excited to see it in action even though i didnt get to drive it. It certainly sounds sick as hell passing you on the highway which makes me want it on the road fast.

Im gonna try to tear it apart this weekend after I have an opinion from my friend and possibly the machine shop.

[carotman]

ack this sucks... oh well, at least you're closer to the goal than you've even been :D

That's good to know that a B18 distributor will fit that bastard engine!

[RobT5580]

Carot, only the bottom hole lines up but you can drill a hole for sure on one of the top ones and im not sure on the 3rd. But it works and thats all that matters otherwise i would have been really screwed.

[carotman]

yup, you could have used a B20A5 distributor I think. They are rarer of course.

[RobT5580]

Well i wasnt sure if its because of the distributor or because its not a true OBD-1 distributor. I looked at it tonight and the top hole doesnt line up but it will work fine with the two lower ones. I doubt anyone else will need to do what i did because its only needed for a stand alone realistically.

[carotman]

The B20A5 distributor is a OBD-1 distributor (same thing as the B21A). ANyway, you're better with a B18A/B one since it has everything mounted inside it. You could get rid of the exhaust cam sensor for a cleaner look :D

[guaynabo89]

sorry to hear about your troubles. Pain in the a$$ sometimes but im sure youll have one great finished product once youre done.

[RobT5580]

Well i pulled the pan today and the good news is i didnt spin a bearing but its actually worse news. For starters im running pauter rods which require notching of the cylinder walls and obviosly they didnt do enough cause i can see where they made contact. Also all 4 cylinders have scoring on the lower walls which im not sure why. The machinist is coming monday to see what i should do but they have my in a bad position. Basically he's gotta fix it for free unless he can find away to point the finger at me. But i know they will have to bore it more meaning either piston slap on start up or larger bore pistons which im sure he dont want to buy. If i could afford it i would bite the bullet and send my old block to Earl/Benson's to get it sleeved and assembled right the first time. Also i know he can do a proper o-ring so i would run a copper head gasket so i can boost over 20psi as originally planned.

I will keep you guys posted on how it goes but im sure it will be atleast 2 weeks but i dont have a spare headgasket so im SOL if he has to pull the head.

[SteveDX89]

Well i pulled the pan today and the good news is i didnt spin a bearing but its actually worse news. For starters im running pauter rods which require notching of the cylinder walls and obviosly they didnt do enough cause i can see where they made contact. Also all 4 cylinders have scoring on the lower walls which im not sure why. The machinist is coming monday to see what i should do but they have my in a bad position. Basically he's gotta fix it for free unless he can find away to point the finger at me. But i know they will have to bore it more meaning either piston slap on start up or larger bore pistons which im sure he dont want to buy. If i could afford it i would bite the bullet and send my old block to Earl/Benson's to get it sleeved and assembled right the first time. Also i know he can do a proper o-ring so i would run a copper head gasket so i can boost over 20psi as originally planned.

I will keep you guys posted on how it goes but im sure it will be atleast 2 weeks but i dont have a spare headgasket so im SOL if he has to pull the head.

Benson is never a wrong choice. I've seen pics of his B series sleeving process and I must say I'm quite impressed. If I were to do that, that's def. where I'd send mine.

[Vinny]

Sorry to hear that Rob. I know how much you have invested into this project and I wish you all the best to getting it resolved.

Where is Benson's?? Not where Steve took his stuff?

[RobT5580]

The shop steve used is great and i wanted to use them in the past. But at this point i want to use the absolute best and ERL/Benson has been doing this for awhile and iv never heard a bad thing about them yet. Obviosly i cant swing it now since i would basically be re-doing everything and possibly pistons but least i know it will be done right.

I never finished adding receipts but i have a feeling its well over 15k if you include all my spare stuff and problems. I cant turn back now nor sell it off for even half of what i put into it so im just going to keep going until its right. Im sure my shop is just going to hone it but im gonna try to get money back and just get the ERL stuff now because otherwise its another head gasket and it may not even last long seeing what iv been through already. If it didnt knock so bad i would drive it as i almost took it out thursday but my friend talked me out of it.

[Vinny]

Hopefully it will be all done by time I decide to make it back up there again. I hear you wont be comming down here

[AccordEpicenter]

i bet it scored up the cylinder walls because of the rods making contact with the block. If you grind bigger notches and make sure the rods are straight... you could maybe get away with new pistons and a fresh hone depending on how much overbore you have already...

[carotman]

Holy crap!!!!

This really sucks honestly. I consider myself lucky not to have had any problem with the B20A so far except a leaky oil pan gasket (which comes from a dented pan in the first time) and a bad fuel injector. Everything had been ok for my B20A.

Thinking of this, all the problems you had/have with the engine seem to come from a bad work at the machine shop. I really hope you get things done right this time because like you said, it's turning into a money pit. If you ever need a spare block... drop by Montreal, we can work out something :p

I hope that it will not prevent other people from trying a B20A swap. This is a great engine honestly. Seriously, this really sucks and makes me mad.

[RobT5580]

Yeah the whole thing leads back to the machine shop. The problem with the intake manifold would have never happened if i went with my first choice shop since i was on a waiting list and had time to buy the edelbrock one earlier. I just cant see how they over looked the clearance on the rods and they are $700 Pauters plus $500 for the Wisecos so they better be ready to battle if they think im paying for it. I called ERL today but the sales dept was gone for the day. I want this done asap so we will see what goes on this week.

[Oldblueaccord]

Yeah the whole thing leads back to the machine shop. The problem with the intake manifold would have never happened if i went with my first choice shop since i was on a waiting list and had time to buy the edelbrock one earlier. I just cant see how they over looked the clearance on the rods and they are $700 Pauters plus $500 for the Wisecos so they better be ready to battle if they think im paying for it. I called ERL today but the sales dept was gone for the day. I want this done asap so we will see what goes on this week.


Well to me rods hitting the block is the machinist fault if he did the setup work.

I think thats actually better for you. If it was a rod bearing he wouldaa just told you your boosting it to much or it denoated and its on you. This one is all him. Good luck, custom work race motors usually means no warrenty so your riding on this guys rep and thats about it.


wp

[RobT5580]

Well he already suggested that we detonated which it never did. My problem is the shop is owned by two guys one is good and the other is an ass and wont want to hear about it. So im sure theyre gonna give me a run for my money but im not get dicked again. If he fixes the problem fine i will move on and get the ERL/Benson done over the summer or winter but i just have a bad feeling with this and im not taking the short end of the stick again.

So i hope you guys learned from my experience and that is dont trust any shop. I went to this shop since they did some work for some honda-tech guys but im am not pleased at all. Yeah there prices are good but when you add up the headaches and bull crap in the end you could of paid a top notch company to do the work right the first time. I will never settle based on time frames in the future because my car should have been running in october and now i will be lucky if its done by may at this point.

[AccordEpicenter]

yeah... i hear ya. I think this is worse than a rod bearing because if it was a rod bearing you might have been able to get away with a recut crank or a new crank and new bearings and maybe a new rod... now all the cylinders and pistons as well as all the rods could be fuct

[smufguy]

so wait a second. The connecting rods were actually hitting the block despite of its exact location? Thats fucked up. Common sense to me is that i put together aftermarket rods and shit and i spin the crank with the pistons connected in it (turn them by hand) and i see the pistons moving and rods not hitting anything, then i bolt everything up. But After all the work being done, u have this problem of the rods actually hitting the cylinder walls or to say the bottom of the cyl walls.

from the picture below (yellow circle) is the area that ur rods were hitting?<<< A20 motor used for reference>>>>
http://img163.exs.cx/img163/1329/10002787ze.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

[mykwikcoupe]

well he said he broke it in N/A so Im assuming he did it under boost at high rpms or something that may have sent a few harmonics through the crank causing its tolerances to decrease

[YK86]

Sad to hear all these problems you are having and even worse that it's cost you so much money. I hope it all works out in the end so you can look at your ride and say it cost alot and you had to learn a few lessons but it was all worth it.

[Oldblueaccord]

so wait a second. The connecting rods were actually hitting the block despite of its exact location? Thats fucked up. Common sense to me is that i put together aftermarket rods and shit and i spin the crank with the pistons connected in it (turn them by hand) and i see the pistons moving and rods not hitting anything, then i bolt everything up. But After all the work being done, u have this problem of the rods actually hitting the cylinder walls or to say the bottom of the cyl walls.

from the picture below (yellow circle) is the area that ur rods were hitting?<<< A20 motor used for reference>>>>
http://img163.exs.cx/img163/1329/10002787ze.jpg (http://www.imageshack.us)

Well its called shit happens esp. at 7 grand. Not sure what rods hes using, dont know what that referance, is but the musta streched them(the rods) or the crank is flexing.




wp

[smufguy]

Old Blue accord: Look at post #29 "For starters im running pauter rods which require notching of the cylinder walls "

[RobT5580]

The rods are huge and have a note that says notching may be required which is not a big deal. But they certainly didnt go far enough and obviosly didnt check how tight they were. My guess is there was some wear on the bearings give more room or its from the higher RPM's. When i broke it in i didnt really beat on it nor took the RPM's up far.

Im gonna try to get this taken care of so i can get through summer and begin building a 3rd block from scratch i guess. But this is dependent on how bad the scoring is and what BS they run by me.

[Civvy]

Sorry to hear it rob....
I know i'm in the u.k. but i've got spare blocks too when you dry out the u.s.

[SQ is the SQUAD]

these blocs are so damn heavy. my bare a20a block is almost as heavy as my complete d16 block

[RobT5580]

I called ERL/Benson yesterday and they dont think the B20A can be sleeved properly because of the sleeve setup. But im probably going to get another block and have them set it all up since i know they are probably the best in the business. This way i know it was done right and i dont expect my current one to hold up to long or be fixed properly due to the curcumstances.

So if i decided to keep dumping money into this crap that is how i will go.

[Civvy]

sure i read somewhere on p.p. they'd drilled out the sleeves to put new ones in. (B20a7)

[RobT5580]

Well it can be done its just ERL said they would have to use epoxy on the center cylinders which is not good. They did a B20A5 block before and were not happy with it and dont recommend it. ERL is the best in the business in my eyes so I take their recommendations seriously. If i had called them when i started this i would have been ahead of the game since i spent about the same with my local machinist which is obviosly not capable of doing what i needed. I dont want anymore problems in the future so more likely i will have them do a 3rd block and swap it in later unless mine is beyond repair.

And anyone looking for a good company i highly suggest calling ERL/Benson the guy spent about a half hour on the phone with me talking over all my options and opinions. And everywhere i read they are highly priased for their work and customer service and their prices were actually great and better than my first choice company that i didnt use because of time.

[Vinny]

I may have to look into them for the a20 build when things slow down here, you know what I mean. Once again Rob, sorry to hear you have to go through all this BS.

[Coroncho80]

How about this for a motivation:


The "stock" LS-T is waiting for you!


hahahaha gotta add the drama to the soup! ;)

[Civvy]

Well it can be done its just ERL said they would have to use epoxy on the center cylinders which is not good. They did a B20A5 block before and were not happy with it and dont recommend it. ERL is the best in the business in my eyes so I take their recommendations seriously. If i had called them when i started this i would have been ahead of the game since i spent about the same with my local machinist which is obviosly not capable of doing what i needed. I dont want anymore problems in the future so more likely i will have them do a 3rd block and swap it in later unless mine is beyond repair.

And anyone looking for a good company i highly suggest calling ERL/Benson the guy spent about a half hour on the phone with me talking over all my options and opinions. And everywhere i read they are highly priased for their work and customer service and their prices were actually great and better than my first choice company that i didnt use because of time.

Its alright for u lot being in the u.s. jammie gits!!

[AccordEpicenter]

the Stock A20a3-t Is Waiting For You

[mykwikcoupe]

Man I hate being over here. My buddy has a 76 civic with a b18c-t in it hed like to show you. He runs scca gt5 or whatever. Not much left on the car says honda you know.

[Coroncho80]

the Stock A20a3-t Is Waiting For You


I'm telling you, if your "A20 T" does not touch at least 12.7 or generate at least 330 whp and at least 298 lbs TQ @ 14 psi, please go talk to somebody else :kekeke:

[smufguy]

lil mexican man, do not take this thread offtopic. WE love you :)

as for you Rob, im still praying that things get panned out bro. I think doing things right does cost a fortune, but this is an extra headache that we dont have to go thru. I hope this next motor comes out the way you want. This is why im taking my time, organizing eveything and my list just keeps growing and changing. Hope it comes out fine with the builder im going with cause i have confidence with him and spending extra 500 bux is def worth the headache i might have if not.

Good luck Rob.

[RobT5580]

Make sure the machinist is good i learned my lesson. And if you willing to ship it out ERL is a top notch company from what i find and their customer service so far is outstanding. I spoke to the sales rep for over a half hour so things will be right someday its just a matter of time and im not ready to give up now since im in this deep.

[AccordEpicenter]

I'm telling you, if your "A20 T" does not touch at least 12.7 or generate at least 330 whp and at least 298 lbs TQ @ 14 psi, please go talk to somebody else

POST YOUR TIMESLIPS!

[Coroncho80]

POST YOUR TIMESLIPS!

Blah! :uh:


You know you ain't got nothing :deal:


::Raunch, starts a new chapter of the 3geez play::

[RobT5580]

Just to update the block is getting new sleeves and pistons and that will be it. If this fails i give up at this point. Iv tried to do everything the right way and its gone all wrong so this is the last straw for me. I just have a lot of crap going on in my personal life and this was the one thing that i look for to make me happy and its not right now.

[guaynabo89]

Just to update the block is getting new sleeves and pistons and that will be it. If this fails i give up at this point. Iv tried to do everything the right way and its gone all wrong so this is the last straw for me. I just have a lot of crap going on in my personal life and this was the one thing that i look for to make me happy and its not right now.

Know exactly how you feel buddy. I was supposed to be turbo/stand alone with my konis back and suspension done by beginin gof March, but right now it doesnt even look like I'll turbo this year. Pisses me off too, Ive just had more importat things that needed my time and money for now.

Just relax and take a step back and maybe leave the projects alone for a while and then come back fresh. Dont make time dealines for your car projects cause theyll be late all the time and it'll just piss you off.

[88LXi68]

Dont make time dealines for your car projects cause theyll be late all the time and it'll just piss you off.


sooooo true

[RobT5580]

I pretty much scrapped all my other plans for the summer i just want the engine done and running. Even if i get it running im probably not gonna touch the rest of the car for a while.

[SQ is the SQUAD]

3+ years and counting, only expected maybe 6-8 months

[RobT5580]

I give you credit for keeping your car that long. I would have tossed an A20 back in just to drive it again.

[RobT5580]

Was driving today on the highway and just broke 999 miles on the B20A and went to downshift to 4th and it wouldnt go. So i managed to get it off the highway but it appears the pressure plate is shot since the clutch is staying engauged. Im gonna pull the tranny monday or tuesday but im thinking about parting out all the turbo stuff if i run into any more snags. Its just been one thing after another and i could understand breaking stuff if i was beating the crap out of it but i have not. I just can imagine what will break when and if i ever do beat on it.

Sorry just had to rant a bit since my luck still is running low. The only good thing is im technically done with school but im still not sure what im doing. Im probably going to get back into selling lab equipment so i can get myself out of debt fast and move on and perhaps get a new car.

[shepherd79]

Sorry to hear abour your car Rob. Don't give up. you got so far, stupid pressure plate can't hold you back.
it would be said to see another 3 geez to go, but i am with you on the part of a new car. I have been thinking the same shit. I need to get rid of this rust bucket and get me something better.

[RobT5580]

I would keep the car but probably just a N/A B20A to eliminate my headaches. If its just the pressure pressure plate i will probably do it but im just dumping money into an endless pit. If i didnt go turbo i would probably have one of the nicest accords appearance wise and probably a pretty nice n/a b20a. I want a new car so i can have a daily driver and just forget about the accord until i enjoy it again.

[Justin86]

man I know what your are going through and it's not fun. Right when I'm about to quit and sell the car I manage to fix it and go back to having some fun.

[RobT5580]

Im gonna try to fix it but my tuner is coming back in a few weeks so i hope it can be done otherwise im really screwed.

[Justin86]

I hope it works out good for you be a shame to see all your work to go to waste.

[AccordEpicenter]

hopefully you can get that out asap and send it back to clutch masters. Ive done them in my driveway in 3-4 hours working at a comfortable pace. Just hang in there rob, its been one thing after another but itll be worth it in the end.

[RobT5580]

Im not worried about the labor since i can do it relatively fast its the money cause im sure they wont warranty it since it only has a 90 day warranty. The bad thing is i really liked that clutch but im not sure if i want to use them again but im gonna call when its out and see if they will work with me or not.

[blahblahblah]

damn....That sucks...What clutch is it? Is the B20 clutch different than the A20s?
Try asking Sean about a good clutch...He was trying a different clutch every other week for a wile there...Not sure what he ended up useing...

[AccordEpicenter]

if the pp is defective they might replace it, ask em

[mykwikcoupe]

mine is the act stage 5 or however they rate it. its the one just below the puck clutch. its from a 91 lude. I can check model numbers if needed. Like i said im going auto cross so mine probably wont hold all the boost your planning. Id say give it the old college try but im pretty sure that was the second try. Then theres the if you fall of you need to just back on as the 3rd try. Man Im not sure what to tell you other than thanks for all the effort youve put forth and the knowledge brouight forth. Thanks man. if you do want to go N/a let me know Ive been working through tthe desktop dyno on the wifeys car. granted its carbed but fuel delivery is the same on a graph. its all rated in cfm.

[smufguy]

i am really sorry to hear about it rob. but u know i keep wishing that this series of bad luck will end. Also the thing is, if you had clutchmasters or centerforce. then we all know they are just piece of crap. I have heard more horror stories than good ones for either of these clutches. Spec clutch and ACT are the way to go if u ask me. I hope everything pans out for you bro.

[shepherd79]

Rob, check your clutch cable. make sure it is not broken and not getting stuck anywhere.
mine did that, and i though my pressure plate was gone, but after ripping everything apart and changing clutch assembly, it was still the same. So i changed the clutch cable, cheap at autozone and everything is just fine.
my cable got rusted and broke, and didn't want to move more that few inches.
So yeah, check on that before you rip everything out.

[RobT5580]

Its a brand new cable and that is fine i already checked that so i will find out more tomorrow when i pulled it. I really like the pedal pressure of the Clutch Masters so if they will work a deal i might give it one more shot but i really want to know why this happened in the first place. So hopefully this will be the end of this bad stream of luck.

[AccordEpicenter]

clutch masters are usually very good clutches... I didnt wanna pay the $450 cm wanted so i had clutchnet make me one ($380)

[NXRacer]

frustrating yes, but a clutch goes out regardless.

did you ever get the mixture settings corrected? or are you still not able to go past 3k rpms?

[Coroncho80]

i beat the shit out of my Clutch Masters stage IV and it lasted i little bit more then 2 years. They are good and like Rob said, the pedal pressure is great. ACT clutches are too hard if you has me and they hurt the axels more the the CM .... from experiences. I say, take the tranny out and find out what went wrong, then make a decision. If you decide to change clutches, try racing clutches - the owner of clutch masters but cheaper.

[RobT5580]

I called CM and they are willing to inspect the part even though they only hold a 90 day warranty. I did tell them if it is the pp that i will not pay for another so if they want my business they should do the right thing. I have no problem paying for my mistakes but i have not been beating on the car and even so it should last a bit for a $530 clutch.

As for the miss/skip i still have that issue but if i down shift i can get into the upper RPM's and its really fast. I swapped out my intermediate shaft for a rebuilt long shaft due to the vibration at high speeds. So i still have some other issues but they are minor and fixable. So hopefully things get worked out cause if i miss my tuner im really screwed.

[RobT5580]

Just and update: I pulled it out today and one of the springs on the clutch fell out. I called CM today and it already seems like its going to be a big nightmare but im not spending that kind of money nor do i have it so they better make this right.

[carotman]

spring on the clutch!... aw man that sucks. I've been beating on my OEM Prelude clutch since I installed the B20A and it shifts without a flaw. I guess that thing could have happened on any engine. It just sucks that you get problems after problems... especially since they aren't related to any mistakes you might have done!.

[smufguy]

so it was a defective clutch or the clutch was installed improperly?

[RobT5580]

Definately wasnt installed incorrectly thats for sure. The metal tab that held it in was off. Im sure i will get the run around but there is nothing wrong with anything else and i was just cruising on the highway when it happened. The guy at CM said he has seen it happen before.

I built the engine outside of the car so i know everything was right and iv never had a problem with any clutches in the past. If the un-sprung clutches were not so harsh i would go that route but i really like this one so im hoping they dont screw me over.

[Civvy]

hey, the same thing happened to one of mine that was a B20 too! prolly a cheap replacement tho wasnt long after i'd got the car.

[RobT5580]

Fortunately they sent me a new clutch free of charge and its all back together. The car is running ok i have an idle issue and my boost controller is not working. I did go to the CT Honda-Tech show yesterday and it was a good time. Next monday my tuner will be back to hopefully work out the issues and sometime this summer i will swap pistons and rings.

[Coroncho80]

Fortunately they sent me a new clutch free of charge and its all back together. The car is running ok i have an idle issue and my boost controller is not working. I did go to the CT Honda-Tech show yesterday and it was a good time. Next monday my tuner will be back to hopefully work out the issues and sometime this summer i will swap pistons and rings.


Pics of the meeting, Rob?

[bobafett]

fuck yeah! im relieved for you rob!

when u finally dial that car in, it will easily be the nicest 3g ever, so you do have that to look forward to. :)

[RobT5580]

I still have issues so im not out of the woods yet. Hopefully i start bringing some money in and i will be done with school in a few weeks for good so hopefully the car will move forward so i can call it a day. Fortunately for you guys im very determined to not let it get the best of me so i will hopefully make progress soon.

As for pictures i didnt take any pictures i guess i was lazy. Here is the like for honda-tech picture thread http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1268536&page=1 there is only a side shot of mine and steve's (88Lxi68's) car and one of his further back.

[AccordEpicenter]

http://www.phaze2ny.com/upload/md031.jpg

whos car is that? Looks tight.

http://is.rely.net/1-2281-23502-l-kjSK69157xfp5QvrGNvIBw.jpg
http://is.rely.net/1-2281-23549-l-PEzQefoM9L6xkOXuTfujQ.jpg
http://is.rely.net/1-2281-23550-l-aJhHh42ccvt6WFeLEP3CjA.jpg

[bobafett]

^^^^^^^^^^^^ 88Lxi68's