Brake Problem!!!

[adams86lxi]

Well recently my brakes have been a little soft and here is the weird part. When i hit a turn going real quick, a.k.a. ass dragin or letting the car get sideways, and go to hit the brakes after it, the pettle is basically limp, and doesnt do anything really. After i pump the brakes a few times it goes back to normal. What could this be? Like i said before i have noticed my brakes do feel alot softer recently and arnt working as well as they used too. This kinda reminds me of when my brake booster went out. The fluid level is fine in it and i dont here any vaccum leaks comming from the master cylinder when the car is running. Does anyone know what this could be? THANKS

[maka_RTH]

i possibly had a similar problem.., on my 2dr shortly before i went down to CA, when i braked i'd have normal pressure right off, then slowly i lost pressure until the pedal was on the floor. if i let off then pushed the pedal again, i'd have normal brakes, then slowly down to the floor again. over and over, worse when car was heated up. it turned out my master cylinder was bad. i would say before you do the master cylinder, make sure all of your lines are bled properly, in the correct order. i believe in the shop manual it says front drivers, rear passenger, front passenger, rear drivers. hope this helps.

[Jareds 89 LX-i]

Could be a number of things.... bad master cylinder, a leak in the system, air in the system, worn brake hoses. First thing I would do is a good visual inspection... take the front calipers off and look for any fluid leaks around the caliper pistons, seals, hoses, fittings, etc. Then pop the drums off and look at the wheel cylinders. Use a small screwdriver and peel back the rubber boot on each side of the wheel cylinder pistons to check for fluid leaks (note: it's normal for there to be a trace of brake fluid in the boots cuz it needs to keep the seals lubricated. It should not however actually look soaking wet or be dripping). Also inspect those hoses, fittings, etc. Check the fittings at the proportioning valve and master cylinder, as well as all the lines themselves. If you see anything leaking, the leak must be fixed. The thing to check real good is the rubber brake hoses at each wheel. If they've never been changed, CHANGE THEM!!!. After about 12 years, you're stopping on borrowed time with old brake hoses. Most Honda hoses that I've seen always crack where they loop around the shock tower. They're like any other rubber hose, they dry out and become weak and crack, and keep in mind the fluid pressure in the front hoses nears 2000 psi during a hard stop. Before you know it, POOF, brake line blows. In your case though it sounds like the master cylinder has gone bad. Try bleeding the brakes real good and flushing all the old fluid out. For the bleeding order, go farthest to closest to the master cylinder, which is RR, LR, RF, LF. Take note if they're is any air in the system as you bleed. If you didn't see any air come out and it made no change, I would start with a new master cylinder.

[maka_RTH]

i've heard both on the bleeding process. farthest away method and the shop manual method. me personally, i would think the shop manual would have it listed the way they do for a reason. and yah, i should've mentioned check for leaks and everything. if you do need to get new lines, some people would say the the SS lines aren't worth it, but i'd say because of the fact that they aren't that much more expensive, and they'll last longer, go ahead and get them.

[smufguy]

i suspect the master cylinder. The vaccuum leak sound ur looking for is for the Brake booster, not the master cylinder. Master cylinder is the silver thing with the lines coming from it and the resevoir attached to it. if the problem just appeared, then its possibly the cylinder. since u have an LX-i check ur rear cylinders too, i know they are not leaking cause u said u dont see a drop in the fluid level, but just make sure they are not getting bad. how to tell they are bad, check for leaks or wettness around the rubber dust seals.

Also check ur front disks for their thickness. if they are past the service limit, do change them and use higher grade pads. Dont get the cheap 10 buck one like i did, u will regret it once they heat up. Also if u do a lot of high speed stops, the pads will glaze in no time. SO yeah, see whats up with that.

whatever i said, is exaclty what jared said.

[adams86lxi]

hey thanks guys for the info. I will probbaly bleed the brakes tommrow just to make sure that isnt the problem. smufguy Yea it was my brake booster that went out the last time and i just got everything including the master cylinder from a junkyard when i replaced it so i still have the old leaky brake booster and the master cylinder maybe i can swap just the master cylinder and keep the brake booster that is on their now. I checked my brakes they have tons of pad left on them. I dont think i have any leaks anywheir i couldnt find any, but all my brakes lines are craked and messed up. Greg what are the ss lines you are talking about because i would love to get all new brake lines but i dont want to spend a whole lot what would be the best to get and wheir should i get them from? THANKS GUYS!

[maka_RTH]

they're the techna-fit Stainless Steel braided brake lines. they're about $110 for a set. i think they jacked the SE-i set up to $150 or something. the SE-i had a couple extra lines cuz of the rear disc. there was a group buy a while ago, and now you can buy them regularly. http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=37848 those would be the ones you'd want if you have(or plan to convert to) rear disc. i don't know if he still has them, but it's worth a shot at the price. and yah, you can swap master cylinders no prob. just don't forget to bench bleed the master cylinder before you put it on.

*edit: he put them on ebay tonight, lol here: http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7924065142
and where he posted it: http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=38199

[Blkblurr]

The seals on the piston / valve in the master cylinder are not working properly. You need to get a rebuild kit for it and maybe hone the inside bore of the mastercylineder. The clue is that it comes back when you pump your brakes. Another way to determine if the master cylinder piston needs new seals is to hold your brake pedal down for a while and see if it contiues to sink. If it does the seals are letting brake fluid past them and need to be replaced.

[Jareds 89 LX-i]

Ahhh... junkyard master cylinder = never a good idea :sad2: Stuff like that you always want to buy new. Get a new MC and some brake lines and you'll be good to go.

[adams86lxi]

Another way to determine if the master cylinder piston needs new seals is to hold your brake pedal down for a while and see if it contiues to sink. If it does the seals are letting brake fluid past them and need to be replaced.

i check this with the car off right?

[Jareds 89 LX-i]

It's better to do it running, then you can more easily feel it going down without having to pound down on it. Just push it down until it starts to get firm, then hold the pressure there with your foot. If it slowly starts to sink to the floor, internal leak in the master cylinder and it needs to be replaced.

[lostforawhile]

if you can see cracks in your rubber brake lines REPLACE THEM NOW!! a crack in your brake hose means that hose could fail at any time. i had one split a few years ago and nearly hit a tree. same thing with your master cylinder, i just rebuilt my entire brake system because the master cylinder failed. I just decided to not take a chance. a master cylinder is really not that expensive you just don't know what condition a junk one is in. the one in the junkyard could be the reason the car is in the junkyard. please don't play around with used brake parts, i don't want to hear about someone being killed because of it. make sure if you overhaul the system that you check the rear wheel cylinders they leak a lot and are cheap and easy to replace. oh the factory way of bleeding the brakes is farthest from the master cylinder first.idon't mean to ramble but your brakes are the most important system on your car your life really does depend on them. :hs: