something's up with my car!!!

[accordlxi2.0]

okay, (a20a1 or anyone else) i did like a little vacuum removal mod.
okay now what i did was attach one vac line from the choke opener, and two of the fast idle unloader to a constant vacuum line.

the fast idle revved to 2,500rpm's then went down to 1,500 rpm's . . . .
why???
but i think i figured it out.
i don't know till i go out and start it tomarrow.

then the air injection, i dissconnect the vacuum line that going to the metal valve and it still, suck's then i dicconected the vacuum line's to those white circle thingy's.
start the car and then the engine misses, while it was still sucking, then i covered the line the engine idle went down, and it was missing more.

so i had to connect a certain line back, in order for it to idle normally.

okay it's running a little rich so i will adjust the a/f screw tomarrow.
the carb is kinda new, so they took care of it, even though it does'nt look like it.

so i drove it, the car peel's out !!!!
i'm impressed, and once it get past 10mph it really kicks!!

then once it warm's the rpm's is at 1,000rpm's.
i really ran this car too.
then like 45min. -1 hour later, it start's idling high again.
but it was at 1,500rpm's.
so something is wrong with the fast idle unloader but i don't see how, cause i suck the line going to it and it and the choke unloader was working.


SOMEONE HELP ME PLEASE.
THIS IS GETTING ON MY NERVE'S.
(that and driving in the alley)

[AccordAddict]

is this mod only for carbs? i want to do it to my EFI but is it possible? sorry i dont know your problem but it sounds like a nice mod, just sounds better if it were fixed. dont worry someone will help.

[accordlxi2.0]

yea, sorry it's only for carb's.
umm i think it's possible to run the efi without vacuum line's.
i think someone did it.

but dude i think you should get a 88-89 efi intake manifold then have the butterfly vavle's open at all time's, it'll improve your low end, but i think you lose some top end.
the advance your timing run some premium or mid grade, that should help some what more.

[A20A1]

Oh god. what are you doing... I would like to help but I don't have the diagram I want everyone to use up again, to help guide you thru the vacuum line removal

What happened to the thermovalves and why aren't you using them

One thing though.. the fast idle is for when the car is cold, it shouldn't be working when the car is warm.

you could be causing problems with the choke orvacuum leak making the throttle controler raise the idle.

Give some Numbers to the vacuum lines you are removing... !!!!

also the air suction tube creates vacuum... cause there are so many damn valves that they need a little extra bump from the AS vavle... the AS valve should not be scuking air in with the vacuum line removed... note I said the AS valve not the other valves connected to it.. the only way to test that is to plug any line you disconnect from the AS ports and test the ports for vacuum with the AS valve disabled.

I'm still a bit confused as to what you are doing... can you post pics?

[A20A1]

I updated the vacuum removal diagram if you want to use it... it's a large image with good detail.
FOR UPDATED VRD CLICK HERE (http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=11067)
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[accordlxi2.0]

okay, the thermo valve's does'nt work.
so i just over rode them.
all the line's that went to the air box i plugged.
so something is wrong with the as vavle if i dissconected the line, and it was still working.

i done this on the 86 and it seemed to work.
i think that accident screwed me . . . .

but i continue:
i left the a/c boost cause the a/c works. ;)

as i said before, i joined #18 from the choke unloader and both vac. line's from the fast idle unloader, it seemed to work 'cause, the cold rpm's was 2,500-3,000rpm's, but now it's at 1,500rpm's.

now the reason i suspect the f.i.u is because evrytime i press the gas it'll rev to 1,500 rpm's.
the once i rev it to 3,000rpm's it'll go down to 800-700rpm's.

i did'nt take off, the ABC vavle yet cause, i did'nt have emission's yet.

i also left the 2 distributor line's connected to.

i'm gonna go back out today, to finish up.
i'm gonna adjust the fast idle screw
plus i'm gonna leave off the air box and when it start.
thier's a solenoid that control's the throttle controller.
everytime i rev it up, the throttle controller moves out ward.

and the choke open's and closes easily.

i do have some thing's to finish up, and i'll test it, cause i'm gonna go get some gas for her to.

[A20A1]

You need to open the throttle to engage the fast idle cam...

The fast idle is already dropped cause you gave it vacuum... but you still need to reach 2,000 - 3,000 rpm in order to disengage it fully, that will cause it to go below 1,400 rpm.

Normally the fast idle will start off at 2,500 or 3,000 rpm... then as the engine warms vacuum slowly becomes present and the idle slowly drops. But in most cases if the cam has not been engaged the idle will not drop below 1,400-1,500 rpm, this is why normally most people need to push the throttle in order to get off fast idle... I've always assumed that was a normal part of operation since most people start driving after the engine temp has risen enough to drop the idle to 1,500.


Which vacuum source did you use to connect ( #18 ) and ( #18 , #19 )?
I't my understanding the manifold vacuum is given to the choke opener thru an internal passage... and is applied to the fast idle unloader thru vacuum line #18.
Only #19 needs its own manifold vacuum source...
I wonder if it can all operate if everything ran off of vacuum from the choke opener... Like if you connected line #19 to line #18 using another vacuum "T"

I wonder if #19 needed a check valve... when tapped into manifold vacuum.

[accordlxi2.0]

hmm that's true.
the choke opener does have an internal vacuum.
but i was gonna do. . . .
take the other line that was on the choke opener and connect it to another vacuum source.
all the line's that was connected to the air box, i plugg those line's.
and the thermovavle that's behind the intake manafold with the 3 port's, i got to plug the line on those.

but what am i'm gonna do about the as vavle???
i hate it the engine sound's too loud.

today i push the gas, start it up, it revved to 2,500rpm's then went down to 1,000rpm's.
the it slowly increased to 1,500rpm's.

then i push the gas, it went off.
i finally got to drive it on the street for real, apparently the throttle control work's cause, in park i open the throttle and the solenoid stop clicking (not the freq. solenoids).
so when your driving let go of the gas it'll go to 1,000rpm's then rev to 1,500rpm's.

it's neat i'm impressed.
but i want to adjust the fast idle screw and the throttle screw and the a/f screw but i have to remove the cap DAMN.

so what can i do about the other two problem's?????

thanks for helping me out.

[A20A1]

You mean line #26 on the choke opener? I would just plug that line. It's supposed to bleed vacuum thru a solenoid in the black box.

Part of the rpm problem is related to the choke operation which still is dependant on the electric choke heater right?

don't adjust the A/F screw...

Why are you removing the Air jet Controller, you'll run really rich if you do.

as for the A/S vavle... I guess it's seized... you need it for emissions most likely.

If you want to reduce to bubbling noise you need to reinstall the plastic silencer tube.

You should replace the AS valve but that can be a pain... I wonder what it was doing to the motor because if it's stuck open your motor will get vacuum above 3,600 rpm and it's not supposed to

It does bubble constantly right?

normally manifold vacuum would drop and the AS valve would close at 3,600 rpm.

[accordlxi2.0]

yes it's contstant, except i don't know if it does it above 3,600rpm's.
i want to remove the ABC till later after emission.
so the vavle is seized, so if i was to remove the valve, would it still make that bubbling sound.

the choke open's fine.
it's still loud when i replace the plastic tube.
when i have the plastic intake out, it feel's as though if air is being blown in instead of sucked out.

ummmm what did you mean about vacuum above 3,600 rpm's,
i think something is wrong because as i said before, when i had disconnected a certian air valve(those white circle thingy's). the engine was missing, then when i covered the hole where the bubble sound comes from, the rpm's goes down and the engine will act as if it's gonna stall . . . . . .

i want to adjust the a/f screw because the car is already running rich, you can smell it, even before i did the mod.

but what did you mean what it was doing doing to the engine above 3,600rpms???

[A20A1]

which hole is the vacuum/bubble coming from?
AS black box with the black vacuum ports?
or
The white valves that connect to the black box?

You could be inadvertantly diverting manifold vacuum and bleeding it off or causing some weird vacuum situation in the manifold or valves which cause the motor to disengare the idle controller or even start to dump EGR gasses... who knows.

as for vacuum above 3,600 rpm... thats what happens when the AS valve is stuck open... it creates constant vacuum even though manifold vacuum has dropped...

Thats why the AS valve runs off manifold vacuum to prevent AS valve vacuum from operating once manifold vacuum has dropped.

If the AS valve black port blow instead of suck then your AS valve has turned into an EGR valve.

[accordlxi2.0]

the black box.
that's where it's coming from.

you said that if the AS valve blow's instead of suck it turn's into a egr valve, so i assume that's bad.

and when you said that the AS valve create's vacuum itself above the 3,600rpm's, that does affect engine performance right???

i'm sorry for the question's, it's just everytime i floored it the tranny downshift's and the engine does'nt kick like my 86 did . . . . .
i figured it was either a tune up or the AS valve????????

[accordlxi2.0]

UPDATE:!!!!
MAN THE PREVIOUS OWNER OR WHO EVR HAD THE CAR BEFORE ME NEVER USED THE SECONDARY.

it's like when i flored it, it was'nt responsive at the hi end, i knew that it was something also wrong with the secondary.
but the more i used it the more responsive the secondary was.
and the last time it actully went to 5,000rpm's!!
NOW THAT'S WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT!!

okay explian this to me, it like when i'm driving, i'm going about 30mph hit the gas let it go, the rpm's goes to 1,000 then like at a 1/2 second the rpm's goes up to 1,500 or more depending on the speed.
is that the throttle controller?????

the tranny is kinda touchy or well i don't know but it shift's the way i like it.

i still have to work out the fast idle thing, cause after a 1 hour or more, it started to do it.
i had lowere the throttle stop screw to about 500 rpm's, something tells me i'm going to have to lower it more . . . .
now remember when i had said that i disconnected that certain white air valve thingy, well it had another vacuum line attached to it.
i then plug that one too, and the engine was'nt hesitating.

BUT the black box was still sucking air, then when you revved the engine, let the throttle go, it's suck alot more.
but i just covered the black hole.

and i can't seem to find the fast idle screw, i even engaged the fast idle to see it.
but i think i'ma have to get down and dirty.

ami going the right way about this a20a1???????????

[A20A1]

THROTTLE CONTROLLER

The throttle controller needs vacuum to not work... when vacuum doesn't reach the throttle controller it starts to open the thottle because the spring is pushing on it.

Now when you open the throttle you lower the vacuum, so less vacuum reaches the thottle controller and the throttle controller swings over to try to open the thottle, but this is fine because you are usually opening the throttle more then the throttle controller has the ability to open the throttle.

If you had a vacuum leak and didn't open the throttle then the throttle controller will raise the idle that way... almost out of contorl. It depends where the vacuum leak is though since a vacuum leak can also cause the car to stall.

Normally the idle is adjusted when load on the engine at idle goes up and down... more load a little less vacuum so the idle controller gets to work to raise the idle... higher idle gives more vacuum as long as there isn't too much throttle or a vacuum leak so the throttle controller eases up on adding throttle.

good thing to do is make sure you set the thottle controller when the car is fully warm and the appropriate load bearring items such and headlights and fans are in operation so you can offset the resulting drop in idle by adjusting the throttle controller.

What happens when you suddenly close the throttle is that the vacuum jumps up... to 28" maybe 30" of vacuum or more... and then causes the thottle controller to back all the way off of the throttle linkage... so it will not effect throttle in the slightest.

If idle shoots up the vacuum is dropping... and that will usually occur within that 1/2 second time frame you mentioned... this can cause the idle to raise... but should not cause the engine to rev to 1,500

no throttle conrotller should ever be set to go higher then 1,000 rpm.

if you have it set to go to 1,500 then you didn't adjust it with the car fully warm or with the proper load applied.

or there is a vacuum leak

but more then likely it will be a screw adjusted too far in... and it needs to be backed out again.

there are many other things you need to look at and have working before adjusting the throttle controller... the ignition system/timming... vacuum system... coolant system... and the thottle stop screw should all be as close to 100% as you can get them before messing with the throttle contorller.

END THROTTLE CONTORLLER

[A20A1]

THORTTLE STOP SCREW
Throttle stop screw should be adjusted with the car fully warm
and the throttle contorller screw and the a/c idle boost screw must be turned all the way out so they don't interfere with the idle... oh also the throttle cable should be checked for slack so it doesn't hold the thorttle open either which would cause interferance with the idle adjustment for the throttle stop screw.

set the idle with the throttle stop screw to 800 rpm... or the lowest best idle speed.

I would drive around for a while to make sure the car is fully warm... not just sit in the driveway.
END THROTTLE STOP SCREW

[accordlxi2.0]

i do that.

hmm, now that you mention it, the hishest rpm's was about 1,900rpm's.
which would be the rpm's when no vacuum is applied to the T/C valve.

'cuase when i had it in park, engine was'nt fully warm, but it was warm.
but i open the throttle, once the rpm's raise the T/C valve moves outward, i let it go, and it moves in.

i don't knwo this is to confusing, it seem's like the problem's get bigger.
cause the fast idle unloader is'nt working.
i did the procedure to acti8vate the fast idle even if the engine is warm.
and it still did it.
i'm going to head out to the garage later to finish up.

as for me removing the ABC thingy, i'm not going to yet, till after i have emissions.
but that seem's to boost the car performance alot too.

[A20A1]

not the right way to do it though... you need a better flowing fuel pump. sure ABC removal richens the mixture but it's not metered correctly so you're not getting the best performance possible.

I say just remove the choke.. it wont effect the car for emissions testing if the car is fully warmed up before the test. :D

[accordlxi2.0]

thanks man for helping me out here, i feel as though i should know all this stuff by now
and hopefully by the winter i'll have my swap done.
umm how about removing the fast idle cam, would you recondmend that??

[accordlxi2.0]

okay , today i did'nt driv ei just went to let run for a minute.

tuned it off, opened the hood, took off the air box.
looked at the throttle assembly, i noticed this metal line on one side, and the trhottle cable on the other.

i don't know if that mean's anything, i was gonna disconnect it, buit i thought i better ask you first.
then i noticed a vacuum line ummm # 11, that it, was sticky/oily looking and had a crack in it, i think that has something to do with the pump accelerator.

i started it up the f.i.u disegaged the fast idle, but the idle went up to 1,200rpms so i turned it off.

i noticed i have'nt finish up, cause i remember on my 86' lx i plugged line's 17, 18 ,19.
was that right or no????

plus do you recondmend that i remove the fast idle cam.
how do you take it off????

agian i'm sorry fopr the questions . . . . .

[A20A1]

The metal line on the other side is for the connection for the TV cable... it goes from the back of the carb to the trans on some cars while other cars have it from the accelerator pedal to the trans.

at WOT on the throttle plates... the TV cable should be pulled and the lever on the trans should be about 2-3mm away from the top.

when you let go of the throtttle the TV cable and lever will drop also.

[A20A1]

...and hopefully by the winter i'll have my swap done.
umm how about removing the fast idle cam, would you recondmend that??
Maybe that can work, you could also convert to manual choke... that'll be a bit tricky, but I know thats they way I would set it up If I lived in cold weather.


thanks man for helping me out here, i feel as though i should know all this stuff by now...

For some reason I thought you did, but I get confused between you and Mindlos.

[accordlxi2.0]

yea i somewhat do, and i'm trying to remember how i did it on my 86, but i can't.

as for the tv cable thanks for clearing that up.
okay now, so # 17, 18, 19 do those go to another line or are they supposed to be plugged.

i'm gonna replace # 11, maybe that was one of the problem's.
i really want to remove the fast idle cam, because this is becoming a problem, i hate the fact that when i stop i have to push the brake harder, and pul the gas pedal . . . . . .

[accordlxi2.0]

okay a20a1 guess what.
i found the culprit, it was the a/c idle boost.
i even lubed around the t/b that seemed to help.
but i adjust the a/c screw, now when the a/c turns on the idle is the same, thats how bad it was.
but it was somewhat the throttle controller also.

now it still does it, but does'nt go above 1,200 rpms.
i still assuming that it's still one of those things.

but i still have a problem it's the fast idle unloader.
it somewhat does it's job, for like when you start it up cold.
also i looked at one of the how to pictures, for the fast idle screw and i can't see mines i see every thing else but not that.

but do you think the fast idle unloader has a vacuum leak??

thanks and
i'm sorry for the questions . . . . .

[DanG86LX]

..and what prob is that with FIU ? U said ur idle is ~ 1000rpm now..

[accordlxi2.0]

okay when the engine is first cold, you start it.
goes to 2,500rpms, the lowers to 1,000rpms and slowly raises to 1,500rpms.
i can't disengage it till it's warm.
and to make sure it was working properly, i would close the choke, and press on the throttle and it would engage, and not disengage on its own.

it's was so simple on my 86' it's becomeing a problem on this one . . . . .
you know what, how do you take off the fast idle system?? . . . ...

[accordlxi2.0]

up date::::

fast idle still engages but.
okay i was driving for a while and it did'nt do it.
my foot got cold ( i only had one shoe on)
i turned on the heat, to floor.
then like 20 more minutes of letting it idle and i went to back up, it did it up to 1,500rpms AGAIN.
so i opened the hood, took a look at the ac screw and throttle cont. screw then were fine.

i looked at the accelerator cable, it was tight.
so i pulled on it, not toching the throttle and the rpms went down.
so its the cable, and the heater had something to do with it. . . . .

but it still has problems that i still need to work out.

[accordlxi2.0]

oh sh#t.
i found one of the problem's, it seem's like one of the vacuum lines for the f.i.u. is leaking.

plus one of the vac. ports on it is broke too.

does anyone know how to remove the fast idle cam???

[DanG86LX]

Fast idle cam is part of the choke assembly, so u have to remove choke housing to get to it. There are 3 screws holding choke housing to carb, 2 outside and one inside so u have to drill 3 rivets to get to it. Fast idle cam is at the back of the choke housing, not sure how is bolted there...

[accordlxi2.0]

well, the choke has screws holding it.
plus i want to adjust the a/f screw the exhaust pops like a mofo . . .

[accordlxi2.0]

UPDATE :
i finally found that fast idle screw and i was'nt even looking for it!
but i'm gonna try to repair the fiu.

now for some reason the throttle controller works perfectly.
what i did was turned the throttle stop screw all the way out.
and the engine idle is based upon the throttle controller.
i did this because the throttle controller usally resets the choke by itself.
but it does'nt do it unless i turn down the throttle stop.
so that works perfectly now.
plus, i know the throttle controller works, because when you disconnect a vacuum line the rpms goes down, then a few seconds later the rpms raises up to a normal rpm.
then when i shift from P to D the rpms adjust again, but when i shift from D to P or N the rpms are low then a second later it shoots up to 700 rpms again.