another carb to efi question

[military mase]

right now i'm in the proccess of getting all my parts for a efi swap. first is the how 2 thread the easiest way todo the swap. is it better to change out the gas tank or can i just keep my carbed tank. last, is the price worth changing to efi or just get another engine to put in. if i get it done i want to install a turbo and think it might just be better to fix what i have than to go with something else. any thoughts on this.???

[shepherd79]

1. you have to change the gas tank no matter what.
2. the swap is worth the money. when i bought EFI accord, i couldn't believe how much power it made.
3. you can keep your carbed engine, just swap the intake manifold.

[military mase]

in your opinion is it just better to buy a car so you can swap the parts? also can o switch the valve cover from an a20a3 to an A1 or is there a slight differece between the 2. ??

[shepherd79]

i think it is better just to buy EFi car. i think the hole swap is pain in the ass.

[military mase]

well i really have no chioce cuz i have tomuch money wrapped in the car as it is. i'mjust tring to find the best way to go thru with what i'mgonna do cuz i want to have my car turboed before the year is out.

[Strugglebucket]

buying an efi car would be a much quicker route. if money is an issue, see if you can find someone with an efi that's not running that they'll sell for cheap. blown head gasket or broken timing belt or something. you should be rebuilding the engine anyway if you're going to try and go turbo. crazy mofo.

[SteveDX89]

well i really have no chioce cuz i have tomuch money wrapped in the car as it is. i'mjust tring to find the best way to go thru with what i'mgonna do cuz i want to have my car turboed before the year is out.

By the end of the year? Haha. You're out of your mind.

[thegreatdane]

military mase, any new pictures of your nice car?
But just put on the EFI tank. It will be just as easy. You just need to run a fuel feed line and then you can use the existing fuel feed line as the return line for the EFI tank.

[military mase]

turbo on a a20, yeah it's crazy but how many people in your town have done it. most likely none. i have one of the nicest 3geez around where i stay at and there are some peps here that can say the same for there car where they live at. i recently went to my 3rd car showin the accord all cat. and havecame away with 1st place in all 3. yeah it has the cosmetics but i need the balls to haul to back it up. as for new pics my car club is going to a big show next week called freak show, i'll take some pics and post them next week.

[TheSummoner101]

cant the A20A1 be turbo'ed?

[SteveDX89]

I'm not saying a turbo A20 is crazy. It's been done. I'm saying having it done by the end of the year is crazy. It's not gonna happen.

[military mase]

well.it should be cloose to almost done at least . this guy is going to give me a good deal on a car i can do swaps with. is it imparitive that i get a car the same year or will a 88 yr model work?? if so he's going to sell it to me for 300 and it still runs, just has some tranny problems.

[accordlxi2.0]

yea it'll work.

the reason they say to change the tank because you gauge will be off.
i was gonna be in the process of converting to efi.
i had a lx-i but sold it cause i had a lx, but once i drove the lx more and more, i missed my lx-i more and more.

more than likely this guy's tranny probably has a un adjusted t/v cable . . . .

[smufguy]

its not the gauge that will be off, if you run a carb tank with the efi pump, u will get fuel cuts in the last 1/4th of the tank. Had it, experienced it and it just feels like u hit a wall. not cool. :( If you want a high pressure fuel line, i got one for sale in the marketplace section. Getting the turbo should be done next year if you ask me. Concentrate on getting the car converted to efi before this year. Its a days job with all the parts in hand. I actually did it in about 11 hours you could say. its not hard, it just required that you rip the car inside out. You can still use the A1 motor, but if u wanna go the extra step, get the dist bracket from the efi and the cam (88-89) from the efi also and install it on the A1 motor.

IF you go to my website u will see all the parts needed and also the tools needed to help you out with the completion. I think the How-to here was done by Carotman, i followed his when i did mine last year, but i also ran across some problems that i included in my how-to. Also, get yourself a shopmanual if you are kinda new to this car (im guessing u are not). so yeah, with all the parts handy, u can get it done soon.


PS. I would say get a 88-89 efi car with a blown motor or wrecked as your parts car, its much cheaper.

[thegreatdane]

its not the gauge that will be off, if you run a carb tank with the efi pump, u will get fuel cuts in the last 1/4th of the tank. Had it, experienced it and it just feels like u hit a wall. not cool. :(

Yeah I had that problem with my old Accord too. When braking it would stall if the fuel tank was down at that level. Very very anoying.

[smufguy]

Yeah I had that problem with my old Accord too. When braking it would stall if the fuel tank was down at that level. Very very anoying.

hehehe, it happened to me exiting turns, since the fuel sloshes away from the pickup, It just makes the car like stay there and not move and then picks up. Forget about passing someone. It was like taming a stupid bitch with its own mind. :( now its all good.

[SteveDX89]

The tank swap is a pain in the ass on it's own. All those little hoses and the damn clamps that hold them. I hated it.

[military mase]

yeah i read the how to for the swap just wanted to get any other ways it was done. yeah , i just looked at my calender and noticed that doing the turbo setup is going to take a little bit of work and is not gonna be finnished but i guess it was good wish it would be done though. if there's any more tips that were some hard spots to look out for when putting it in give me a heads up. thx

[Immeraufdemhund]

in your opinion is it just better to buy a car so you can swap the parts? also can o switch the valve cover from an a20a3 to an A1 or is there a slight differece between the 2. ??

i tried that once... nope they dont match up. It sucks cause i like my a20a3 valve cover more than my a1 vc. This efi swap is a big job, not a hard one...just big. I'm in the process of doing it too. I hope that i can do it in one weekend.

Smurfman your website how to on the efi conversion has some red X's can those be fixed soon?

[smufguy]

i tried that once... nope they dont match up. It sucks cause i like my a20a3 valve cover more than my a1 vc. This efi swap is a big job, not a hard one...just big. I'm in the process of doing it too. I hope that i can do it in one weekend.

Smurfman your website how to on the efi conversion has some red X's can those be fixed soon?

lol u called me smurfman. hahah. anyway, sorry the website is underconstruction and so i took down all the files. But now since u asked for it. i put them back up. So u should be fine. http://89accord.netfirms.com/eficonversion.htm

[Immeraufdemhund]

hehehe, oops sorry. yah i visted the site yesterday. No more red x's. do you have a hose diagram for the fuel tank?

[smufguy]

hehehe, oops sorry. yah i visted the site yesterday. No more red x's. do you have a hose diagram for the fuel tank?

well not on the site, but here is a thumbnail The vaccuum lines for the carb and efi are the same, but the only difference is the fuel feedline and return line is different. here is the pic anyway. Click on the image to enlarge


http://img81.exs.cx/img81/6392/11-81.th.jpg (http://img81.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img81&image=11-81.jpg)

[military mase]

well i've gotten my parts car broken down almost all the way and wanted to know can i use the same hedders or will i have to switch it out with a different one for EFI.

[smufguy]

if your efi parts car is a 88-89 then its better to use that cause they got the 4-2-1 header design. But if i was you, i would look into buying an after market header like the pacesetter (since DC is discontinued and impossible to find) and hook it up to utelize the full power. Stock headers dont make much difference but u will a lot of diffence just by switching to efi.

ps: keep ur Carb head. and switch the cams to the efi (if 88-89 efi only). you will defenitely feel the power.

[accordlxi2.0]

don't mean to take over or anything....
but yea efi has carb by the balls ( if the car is stock).
i had an lx-i that car could peel out and keep going..unlike my lx..
once i did mods it ran richer, and it seems when i floor it.. it peels out and then feels like theres no gas then takes off with power.
i think you'll like the fact of having efi..
you can mod it and not have to worry about if you fail emission in some states.
you can drive the hell out of it and still maintain a good fuel economy.
it may take awhile but it's worth it.
i can't wait to start on mines.....

[military mase]

so the only hedders for our cars now are pacsetters. ? that blows!! hey smufguy i just went to your site and like the detail work better. thanxs for the info. by the way is there any easier way to get the feul lines out or it's just gonna suck getting em out.

[accordlxi2.0]

umm there's really no better way.
actully he said you can use the carb fuel line as a return line.
and the efi line you have to put in.
which means your gonna have to take out the whole dash assembly.
unless you have a better way.

yea it does suck that pacesetter's only make header's for us now....

so leave em and just add your efi line.

[smufguy]

well to make the efi conversion the whole dash needs to come out when u switch the cabin wiring with the same doors as yours (the dx alone needs to switch its dash wires i guess). like accordlxi2.0 said, the efi return line is the same carb feed line so u dont have to worry about that. but the efi feed line is a bitch. Thats why i got a custom fuel feed line for the efi on sale and accordlxi2.0 said he wanted it.

military mase, dont forget to switch the fuel tank and get a new fuel filter too. Also, get yourself some long rubber hose and use custom filltings to rig up ur own fuel feed line. Its hard to remove the stock one cause u need to go under the car and bust that locked on nut. but be very careful not to bend the feed line. one small bend and ur done. Cause its made of really thin metal and shit would just crack if u try to bend it back.

[military mase]

yeah. me and myfriend take outthe tank on tuesday or so. as for the line do you think you could make another one or could you tell me how you made you fuel line....we tool out the fuel filter and it looked like it had never been changed at all. so getting a new one is on the top list. as for headers has anyone heard anything about S&S headers. i really don't want to get pacesetters.

[smufguy]

military mase, i did not make my fuel hose. It was custom made for $150 when chris had it.

U can get a 'an' fitting that has the right thread that would get plugged into the fuel filter and u can use that 'an' fitting and order a 20Ft or 15ft of fuel hose for about $30 or $50 from summit racing and make ur own fuel feed line.

For next year, im doing that. I am redoing my whole fuel system and thats how its gonna be. So see if that works for you, trust me doing custom is much easier than trying to pull the stock one and most of all trying to put that bitch back in. Besides, u already got room on the firewall to pass the hose thru. Just use the AC drain hole.

[military mase]

anyone heard any good info on the S&S headers. i just read a litle about it but there's not much info on them

[Immeraufdemhund]

i didn't have that much troubles getting that line out and in of my old car. Once i got the back part (by the tank) out i pushed that all the way back into the trunk untill i could put the line threw the crack in the door. Installed in reverse order. took 2 minutes to take out and on.

[smufguy]

i didn't have that much troubles getting that line out and in of my old car. Once i got the back part (by the tank) out i pushed that all the way back into the trunk untill i could put the line threw the crack in the door. Installed in reverse order. took 2 minutes to take out and on.

mine took about half hour in the junkyard to pull that shit out. I was mostly scared of the car just falling on me tho :( it was resting on a pile of tires and sqeaking on every turn of the wrench.

[military mase]

hey smufguy does it make a differance if i keep my old wiring inside the car or do i have to just change the ones in the engine bay. me and my partner have broken down the parts car and almost all of my car that were doing thr transplant in.

[Mike's89AccordLX]

You have to change the wires unfortunately. I had my efi started and then realized my parts cars wiring harness wont work since its a 2 door and mines a 4 door. So I just decided to stay carbed and put a bigger carb on instead of the weber 32/36.

-Mike

[SteveDX89]

hey smufguy does it make a differance if i keep my old wiring inside the car or do i have to just change the ones in the engine bay. me and my partner have broken down the parts car and almost all of my car that were doing thr transplant in.

Yes, you definitely have to change the front cabin harness. You can't plug the ECU in if you don't. There are also more wires to that harness than the carb one and it's all for more sensors, etc. for the EFI system.

[smufguy]

thats one thing i mention everytime i talk to guys is that, i need the same body style (4dr, coupe or hatchie) for the parts car. The cabin wiring harness needs to be changed, U can stop at the rear pass seat clips cause the rest of the back is the same so all u need is the front half of the cabin wiring harness and the whole engine bay harness. oh yeah, make sure u get the same kinda transmission as yours if possible. 5spd guys can live with auto engine bay harness, but the cabin harness needs to come outta the same type of tranny car.

hunting down parts might be hard, like the wiring, but the rest is universal for the auto and 5spd, like the intakes and exhaust and gas tanks and stuff. So with all the parts at hand, it should nto be hard.

next year when i do my other car, i will make sure i will take pictures of the car and write up a thorough how-to which can make a lot of lives easier.

[military mase]

so your saying i need to get the harness out of a 5-speed car if i have five speed??? if so the car i bought was an auto......i guess i have to speed more money then.

[smufguy]

well if you got the cabin wiring harness from an auto and ur a 5spd it wont be that bad. u can stll deal with it. Just gotta figure out how to make the reverse switch work. So its not biggie.

but if anyone with an auto and got a 5spd wirings, well they need to do more fixing than you military_mase.

the only reason i say this is so that it would be easier for people who do the swap cause it would be more of a plug and play rather than a headache of rammaging thru the shop manual and finding the wiring schematics and making it work.

[thegreatdane]

I just noticed that the shop manual from honda says that carb and fuel injection fuel tanks are the same.. that's weird. They cant be.

[SteveDX89]

well if you got the cabin wiring harness from an auto and ur a 5spd it wont be that bad. u can stll deal with it. Just gotta figure out how to make the reverse switch work. So its not biggie.

but if anyone with an auto and got a 5spd wirings, well they need to do more fixing than you military_mase.

the only reason i say this is so that it would be easier for people who do the swap cause it would be more of a plug and play rather than a headache of rammaging thru the shop manual and finding the wiring schematics and making it work.

Using the auto cabin harness when you're 5 speed causes no problems. With a 5 speed engine harness, wiring the reverse lights is incredibly simple. I got that solved in about 5 mins. If you need any help with that military, let me know. You can still hook them up with an auto engine harness but you have to run you're own wiring.

[smufguy]

I just noticed that the shop manual from honda says that carb and fuel injection fuel tanks are the same.. that's weird. They cant be.

yep they are not.

[military mase]

thaxs, i'll tell you how the swap went after it's half way done. i just broke down and got my pacesetter (armor coated/ceramic coated) yesterday. they look preety good. well just have to se when they get put on.

[military mase]

ok. smufman i have the wiring all swaped and hooked up except a wire that hooks to the ac unit which i'll re-wire after x-mas. did you just get some new line for the return gas line that goes to the fuel regulator.????? besides that everything went back in so smoothly. just have to put the headers and o2 sensors on.

[smufguy]

ok. smufman i have the wiring all swaped and hooked up except a wire that hooks to the ac unit which i'll re-wire after x-mas. did you just get some new line for the return gas line that goes to the fuel regulator.????? besides that everything went back in so smoothly. just have to put the headers and o2 sensors on.

yeah i got a new line that goes from the fuel reg to the fuel return pipe (its the feed pipe on the carbs). Here is a pic of it.


http://img32.exs.cx/img32/1175/00000148ex.th.jpg (http://img32.exs.cx/my.php?loc=img32&image=00000148ex.jpg)

[SteveDX89]

Like he said, just pull the fuel filter out of your carb feed line and then hook that up to the fuel pressure regulator.

[military mase]

OK!!! SHE"S DONE!!! and fired up .......just a tiny little problem we ran in to i want to get some imput in on. There is two things that could be wrong. right now the number 2 injector isnt firing up. we checked the plugwires and they all spark and we check all the grounds and connections. could it be the wiring has a break in the line somewhere or could the computer be bad. also to test to see if it isnt the wire does anyone know the computer diagram slot that controls injector #2. we were going to run a wire from the computer straight to the injector. also i toke out the AC unit scince i'm going to do the turbo setup later. will a civic radiator work also and does it matter from which civic to get it from.

[Civvy]

Congrats on the swap man. Have a look at the wiring colours at the injector and see if you can match it at the ECU connectors. I dont know if they go all the way back there.
I also thought of a civic rad, do u mean because its half the size but double the thickness?? which would give us lots of room for the turbo. and good breathing space. if it doesnt cool enough we could try an additional Facet fan on the front. and run w/o a thermostat. so overheating with one shouldnt be a problem. cant think of any other reasons not to use one.

[accordlxi2.0]

eh i think it'll be fine with the civic rad. and regular fan.
it'll turn on more often though
in fact if you can use the big fan from the 3g.

[military mase]

anybody have any other ideas about the ecu/injector problem??? i'm stumped right now. we dohave a salvage yard that has the ecu i need on standby just in case i need to change it. as for the civc radiator i'll do that next , i'll just have to change the mount bracket

[smufguy]

OK!!! SHE"S DONE!!! and fired up .......just a tiny little problem we ran in to i want to get some imput in on. There is two things that could be wrong. right now the number 2 injector isnt firing up. we checked the plugwires and they all spark and we check all the grounds and connections. could it be the wiring has a break in the line somewhere or could the computer be bad. also to test to see if it isnt the wire does anyone know the computer diagram slot that controls injector #2. we were going to run a wire from the computer straight to the injector. also i toke out the AC unit scince i'm going to do the turbo setup later. will a civic radiator work also and does it matter from which civic to get it from.

there could be a break in the wire right above the injector if u dont find any, see if u get a voltage on the output. if u dont get any voltage on the terminals for the 2nd injector u can trace it back to the engine bay harness with the wire that is for the #2 cyl injector. See if the output from the cabin harness has power coming. if so, then u got a break from the male end of the engine bay harness (the one that has the injector wires) to the injector. So u can just splice it and run a seperate wire.

The computer will never go wrong with the injectors. IF any, its just a bad wire. Clean off the filter right on the top of the injector once u pull them out. Dont forget to replace all the top and bottom Injector O-rings. Get it from the Honda dealership since its cheaper than Napa.

Also, check that injector's resistance by measuring the resistance on the two pins sticking outta it, the resistance should be 1.5 to 2.5 Ohms. as for the wire code, peel back the insulation tape and see what is the lead wire color is and then track it back to the male end of the engine bay harness. There should be only one wire of that code in the 3 of the male ends that the engine bay harness has.

[Civvy]

Maybe another problem with the rad could be water going directly onto your leads.
It's Highly likley youve got a broken wire since youve swapped all the harnesses over. If you can find the matchin colour at the ECU connector just bridge it straight to the injector!

[military mase]

we changed all the o-rings already. i'll check it with my multimeter tomarrow. once we get this problem solve she'll pur like a kitten.....OH!? there was a break in the wire and we fixed it and still the same problem

[military mase]

i thought of another thing...could it be the injector resistor box???

[carotman]

Yes it could be. Take a multimeter and measure the resistors. The procedure is explained in the shop manual (available on 3geez)

[military mase]

well i went to the field and my friend while i was gone trouble shot it and found out it was a faulty wire so he rewired it for me. he had it up and running for me. he said it runs quicker and better sounding than before. i'll be picking it up on friday or saturday. smufman you said you had the wiring diagram for the reverse. i'm gona need to get that from ya if i can. thx for the help. i'lltake some pics of it and put it in te pics section.

[smufguy]

give me ur email, ill send it to you

[military mase]

my eimail ad. is [email protected] . thx

[smufguy]

you got mail sir. ;)

[military mase]

it wouldnt let me open up the zip folder????

[smufguy]

it wouldnt let me open up the zip folder????

lol why not? u got winzip 9.0 right?

[military mase]

uhhh??? not really. ........also i'm having a problem with the rev. when i give it gas then in the middle of gears it will rev very high and also when coming to a stop. to combat this i have to put my foot under the gas pedal and pull up to get it to rev down and then sometimes it will idle very low. iv'e tried adjusting the throtle cable and for some reason i can't find a medium for it to idle right. any troubleshooting tips i may be overlooking

[1OFAKIND87]

"Is it worth swappin an 87' carb with an 89' LXI? If so, what else would have to be swap'd to make the whole thing complete? Anyone. . . .

[smufguy]

military mase: its cause you need to clean out the TB. If you do the efi swap i would suggest taking the manifold apart and cleaning the insides before you put it in. This would give u a chance to clean up the Throttle place which is notorious to get stuck and do this because of the blow by. THe reason i even did the clean up was because i was experiencing this problem every other week, and i would open the CAI, clean the place and the mating surface. But that day, i just took it apart and never had the problem since. There was lot of build up inside the manifold.

Also, 1ofakind87: search to find out.

[military mase]

i cleaned out the TB & manifold. it still stubbles when i put it into gear and when it gets up to a good speed it'll take off like a rocket. could it be the dist. timing or do i need to adjust the cam gear.it runs like this every once in a while not all the time... i did change my 87 cam with the 88 cam. ....the accord is much faster than my civic dx...a lot more torque i have to say.

[smufguy]

military mase, you could have had the dist on full retard or something. CHeck to see if your alternator is putting out the right voltage. IT should not stumble tho. Is your fuel filter new? 87 and 88 camshafts done really matter, unless ur valve timing was screwed up in the process. Also check to see how your pcv valve is. There could be some vaccuum leak or the vacuum lines connected wrong, take a pic of your engine bay area by area if you can and also double check those vacuum line connections. How was the insides of the EFI Distributor?

ps: Check to see if your ecu is throwing any codes, even tho the check engine light might not be on, u can still be throwing codes.

[military mase]

thx for the scematics for the reverse lights. i was looking at the dis but i found out the dis does not move. is there a way to adjust this??? also witht the 88 cam in different from the 87 could it be that i also need to adjust the cam gear a little????

[smufguy]

no problem bro.

the distributor should be able to adv and retard.

88 efi camshafts are different from the 86-87.

[SteveDX89]

Stock cam gears have no adjustment. You may off a tooth tho if you took the timing belt off.

[military mase]

i have the fidanza adjustable cam.