Manual Transmission Oil

[x3r0]

I recently transplanted my 86 accord engine into an aquired 88 accord... I need to put transmission oil back in and I don't quite know what is safe to use.
Short of getting something with Honda's name on it at the dealership what kind of oil can I put in my Manual Transmission.

[86LXItooFAST4me]

its just motor oil.

FLUID CAPACITY IS A REFERENCE GUIDE ONLY. CHECK FLUID LEVEL, DO NOT OVERFILL.
M/T - GEAR OIL : SF/10W-30
M/T - GEAR OIL : SF/10W-40
M/T - GEAR OIL : SG/10W-30
M/T - GEAR OIL : SG/10W-40
M/T FLUID CAP PT : 5.0
* Important Notice *
DRAIN AND FILL PLUG INFORMATION IS A REFERENCE GUIDE ONLY, DO NOT OVERTORQUE
DRAIN PLUG SIZE : 3/8-SQUARE
DRAIN PLUG TORQUE : 30FT-LBS
FILL PLUG SIZE : 17MM-HEX
FILL PLUG TORQUE : 30FT-LBS
Related Items
GEAR LUBE, PUMP, PARTS CLEANER, DRAIN PAN, GASKET SEALER, REPAIR MANUAL

[AccordEpicenter]

Use either 10w-30 or Honda MTF... If the tranny is really worn/has problems switch to GM syncromesh friction modified

[3gn86lxi]

My mechanic reccomended I use the Honda fluid. It's very inexpensive also, I bought two quarts when he put in my clutch for like six dollars.

[x3r0]

Ok most people are saying 10w30 or 10w40.... but I cant find that in "Gear Oil" anywhere. The honda dealership closed before I could make it there but I decided to go with 10w30 Mobile Synthetic Motor Oil for my transmission.

[SHURIK]

U CAN RUN ANYTHING U WANT IN THIER AS LONG AS IT IS GREASY MY CIVIC I RAN 70W90 GEAR OIL CAUSE I HAD A CV SEAL LEAK AND THATS THE ONLY STUFF THAT STAYDE IN THIER BUT U CAN US MOTOR OIL OR GEAR OIL or buy oil that sayse non detergent meaning dosent foam up from agitation but honda m/t tranys are so well made u can run crisco in thier ant it will be ok so dont wory just pore somthing oily in thier and have fun

[3gn86lxi]

O.K.????????? Do you want to replace a tranny or drive????? Use oil......not crisco!!!!!!

[x3r0]

Actualy I wanted to be healthier so im switching to olive oil..... maybe some "I cant believe its not butter" spread to keep the seals in good shape.

[Slavic]

Ideally get GM Syncromesh... Friction modified, not standard at any GM dealership (part # 12377916) or at least the cheaper non Friction modified Penzoil Syncromesh version at AutoZone. Search for "Syncromesh" for info:

http://www.3geez.com/search.php?searchid=110862

[buds302]

yea i heard virgin olive oil was the best. try that and then cook me something with it when you blow a hole in your tranny.any way 10w30 and 10w40 is not gonna be listed as gear oil. it is regular motor oil . the reason it is not as black as the oil that you tak out of your engine is because your engine actually uses fire and burns the oil. your trans on the other hand uses no fire. which means it doesnt burn. it doesnt get as hot in there as your engine would. now if you have a leak in your trans then its better to use a heavier weight oil like 80w90 or something like that. any more questions?
dont listen to people that tell you to use cooking products for lube in your car. if you never heard of it or you cant get it at the autopats store then dont use it.

[AccordEpicenter]

Ideally get GM Syncromesh... Friction modified, not standard

its pretty good stuff. Honda mtf is great too. I really dont like regular motor oil but it will work ok. Gear oil is wayyy too heavy (fuckup tranny)

[carotman]

Yup, gear oil will mess the tranny if used for a long time.

Or course people using this will do it to an already messed up transmission/car and will get rid of it before the extent of damage is visible.

[AccordEpicenter]

oh yea... full synthetic oil is bad news for gearboxes (read: no mobil 1 in your 5 speed)

[POS carb]

Recommended oil is motor oil, just buy whatever you stick in the engine, not gear oil

I have some questions:
1)What could happen if you were to put 3 quarts instead of the recommended 2.5/2.6?
2)I have synthetic-blend (not full synth) from Castrol and I accidentally created a mix of 1Q 10-40 and 1.5Q 20-50 because I grabbed an improperly stocked quart and didn't realize until I poured it in, could this create a problem? I figure whatever maybe the thinner oil will keep the 5th gear happy
3) how do I check the level on this trans? It seems to me the only way to know is to drain it all out and measure out your new oil b4 u pour
4) can the 5th gear cover give me access to the oil passages? I want to enlarge whatever lets the oil flow to 5th it makes a very slight whining sound on accelleration in 5th but I'm hoping it's just how an OD gear should sound
5) how can I make 1st gear engage smother?
6)can the clutch cable bracket be shortened or swapped for a shorter-throw clutch? it seems I have to push it too far down but I'm never driven any other cable-clutch cars to campare it to. I think even my parents old '78 Celica had a hydro clutch... Could I convert to hydro? Where does the unit mount?

[sjsjbb]

i know that i read some where that heavy gear oil wasnt good. too thick and it doesnt get up into 5th gear alas 5th gear and bearings might go just my thoughts on what i read somewhere.

[bigal004321]

where do u put manual transmission oil in? i dont know where to even check how low it is? i looked all over the transmission in the engine bay and couldnt see a dipstick? any got a pic?

[AZmike]

just behind where the passenger side axle goes into the transmission case these is a large (~30 mm) nut with a 17 mm head and an aluminum crush washer visible behind it. That is the fill plug. The oil level should be to the bottom of the fill plug hole with the car on level ground.

[88Accord-DX]

My manual tanny had a plug in it, used a 3/8 ratchet & put it in the square in the plug. Used 80W gear oil. Filled er up to the bottom of the plug.

[Honda-Master]

guys DO NOT use gear( 80-90w oil ) in a honda tranny,, it will be too tick to get to 5th gear to lube it properly,, 5th gear will overheat and burn,, I have replaced a bunch of 5th gear assembly because people use gear oil.......
Use motor oil....10w30 will do well... no need to get the expensive stuff ,, just basic motor oil.

Do Not listen to Shurik to use anything in there i do not know what he has been smoking ..

[88Accord-DX]

Use motor oil....10w30 will do well... no need to get the expensive stuff ,, just basic motor oil.
Your right, I did some research on it. The stupid Haynes manual says use 80w gear oil. :slap:

[TWOLOUDNPROUD]

Fill it up with slick50 it may cost you some $$$$$$$:naughty:

[sjsjbb]

i guess thats whay they say u learn from experience. i found out hard way and it is costing me money now. i used 80/90 and with in 2 months i have to replace 5th and 5th syncros 120. syncros 70. for 5th gear and 110. for bearings and missa. it sucks. only good thing is i can tear out a tranny in 1 -2 hrs and put in about same. if i could find junk one around hear id buy but called everywhere within 60 mile no luck or thay want 4-5 hundred car runns great and body and interior good and all electric works .

[AZmike]

The fifth gear assembly can be replaced with the transmission in the car.

[sjsjbb]

only problemis if space collar os seized to main shaft is it is a bugger to get off and chances are the needle bearings on collar are stuckinside gear

[88Accord-DX]

Fill it up with slick50 it may cast you some $$$$$$$:naughty:

You don't want to put Slick 50 in anything. Read the link below.

http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1996/07/slick.htm

[TWOLOUDNPROUD]

You don't want to put Slick 50 in anything. Read the link below.
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1996/07/slick.htm
I was Just Playing when i said that:slap:That whould cost like $200.00

[Cap'n Carageous]

You don't want to put Slick 50 in anything. Read the link below.
http://www.ftc.gov/opa/1996/07/slick.htm

I put Slick 50 automatic tranny stuff in my Mercedes to smooth out 2nd gear shift and it killed reverse!!

I have always used regular 10w-30 motor oil in the Accord, as recommended in my Haynes manual, with no problems in 295,000 miles.

[sjsjbb]

got my tranny rebult and put in yesturday. took it apart my self and replaced 5th and syncros never did before but worked out fine but i did alot of searching on thi sit e reallllly helpfull runs great but i would get a clunk when i pushed in clutch pedle i screwed in adjustment some and it stoped not quite sure if its to much or not i thought there was to be 1/4 before it started touching tranny arm??? 89lxi

[sjsjbb]

also i read about replaceing shift rod boot it can be streched over tube and put on with tranny in car just dissconect linkage and work over tube onto shaft worked for me just something to think about

[onliLX-i]

I have experimented with diffrent oils and diffrent additives. Regular 10-40 or 10-30 motor oil by its self works the best.

[AZmike]

also i read about replaceing shift rod boot it can be streched over tube and put on with tranny in car just dissconect linkage and work over tube onto shaft worked for me just something to think about

That may be, but if it's already leaking the seal is bad and that can't be replaced without a complete disassembly.

[88Accord-DX]

That may be, but if it's already leaking the seal is bad and that can't be replaced without a complete disassembly.
Thank you. The boot just keeps the dust & dirt out from the shaft.

[truetune]

10w30 non detergent motor oil is the same thing that Honda brand M/T tranz fluid is I work For honda been told by all the techs, my bos and one of the guys with a 10sec B18 turbo civic hatch.

[tuxdreamerx]

Just to let you guya know this helped me alot I will be topping off my tranny with 10w30

[A18A]

Just to let you guya know this helped me alot I will be topping off my tranny with 10w30
thank you for bumping this :wave: i probably would have started a thread about this later on lol

[forrest89sei]

heres the Oil Specs Chart from my service manual, Figured it might help:

http://img216.imageshack.us/img216/7493/oilspecsmediumdq8.jpg

[2ndGenGuy]

Honda just released a new type of MTF. It comes in a green-labeled bottle. It's about $8.00/qt, but they say it's the best shit you can put in an old tranny. It supposedly will smooth out shifts and everything. I bought 3qts for my Prelude tranny when it goes in. I will report on how it works... Whenever I get a weekend off from work to do my tranny swap.

[lostforawhile]

Honda just released a new type of MTF. It comes in a green-labeled bottle. It's about $8.00/qt, but they say it's the best shit you can put in an old tranny. It supposedly will smooth out shifts and everything. I bought 3qts for my Prelude tranny when it goes in. I will report on how it works... Whenever I get a weekend off from work to do my tranny swap.since honda doesn't actually make their own fluids,i would almost bet thats relabeled trick shift or something like it. on that note has anyone actually tried the trickshift or royal purple manual transmission oils? i hear they are really good. if my stupid state tax check ever gets here, i'm going down to tallahassee and picking up an overhauled tranny from man trans inc. it will probably run one of those two from day one. i know the trick shift is designed to cushion gear contacts.

[2ndGenGuy]

since honda doesn't actually make their own fluids,i would almost bet thats relabeled trick shift or something like it. on that note has anyone actually tried the trickshift or royal purple manual transmission oils? i hear they are really good. if my stupid state tax check ever gets here, i'm going down to tallahassee and picking up an overhauled tranny from man trans inc. it will probably run one of those two from day one. i know the trick shift is designed to cushion gear contacts.

Yeah I wouldn't be surprised. There's plenty of stuff they outsource. I was talking with the service guy about this MTF, and asked his opinion of SeaFoam. He says thier dealer has been using it for years. Never ever had a problem with it either. So I take back everything I've ever said about SeaFoam. But on topic with what you were saying, he says now they have thier own "Honda Brand" top end cleaner... Probably SeaFoam.

[88Accord-DX]

This old thread reminds me of my next thing to fix with my Accord. My manual transmission leaks oil from the shift boot. I thought there was a seal in there, but I can't find it on Majestic. Now I wonder if it's just the rod & boot you supposed to replace. (to stop it from leaking) Anyone know anything????

[AccordEpicenter]

POS CARB:

1. Its probably gonna leak if you go way over the reccomended amount
2. Ehh, its not a great idea to mix viscosities like that but i dont think its gonna really do any damage to the trans but it might not shift as good as it could
3.If the car is level on a lift, you should be able to take out the filler plug and keep filling it til it overflows, then put the plug back in. if you are just on jack stands it doesnt work that way, i just pull the speedo sensor and use a long funnel and dump the reccomended amount in and call it good.
4.Not really sure on the oil passages but i doubt its that easy
5. Make sure youre clutch is adjusted correctly or 1st can be hard to engage at times, esp if youre using junk tranny oil
6. Cable clutches are better than hydro imo less parts to break and easy adjustability. Make sure the clutch free play is adjusted so there isnt too much slack in the cable, that would make you have to push right to the floor and then some, which you should do on every shift in reality

[lostforawhile]

This old thread reminds me of my next thing to fix with my Accord. My manual transmission leaks oil from the shift boot. I thought there was a seal in there, but I can't find it on Majestic. Now I wonder if it's just the rod & boot you supposed to replace. (to stop it from leaking) Anyone know anything????
just answered that question in a new post,have to tear the transmission apart to replace a 5 dollar seal,due to some dumb design ideas on this tranny.

[MessyHonda]

oh yea... full synthetic oil is bad news for gearboxes (read: no mobil 1 in your 5 speed)



found out the hard way....last night....i did the oil change on my tranny less than 2 weeks ago...and it went out on me:thumbdn:

[clark_486]

why is full synth bad for the tranny, what about blend? Did ten mins of research into this and found some for and some against.

[Kabuki]

Just use Honda MTF. It works substantially better than regular engine oil. I promise. We use it every day. Okay, well... Not every day. Just the days that we have manuals scheduled. :) It expensive, sure.... But it's worth it when you don't have to change it again for 20-30,000 miles. Same with Honda ATF. I know there is at least one thread about ATF on this board. Even though these cars were all originally equipped with non-specialized fluid, that doesn't negate the fact that the newer, specially designed, Honda fluids are the same. They are a vast improvement over Dexron III and engine oil.

[Dr_Snooz]

I know there is at least one thread about ATF on this board.

Oh, trust me, there's a lot more than 1, LOL. I've always pooh poohed Honda fluid, but my auto's been banging around a lot, so I just might try it.

[VIPER1988]

ive always used nothing but honda atf in my auto with 300K+ miles on it and runs great.
i use 10w30 royal purple in my 5-speed for the last 2 years and it works great, shifts much smoother than with conventional oil.

[Ichiban]

I actually tried 75-140 synthetic gear oil in a honda gearbox once, and it was almost impossible to shift.

I was wondering about straight weight 30 as a gear lube? Caterpillar TDTO fluid is like this, and they are extremely picky about their lubricants.

[AccordB20A]

Also what do you guys think of running ATF in a manual transmission?

[lostforawhile]

Also what do you guys think of running ATF in a manual transmission?it doesn't have the correct friction properties,it's designed for hydraulic circuits and the wet clutchs in an automatic. stick with oil or the honda manual fluid.also running an oil thats too thick is going to damage your tranny,these don't have an oil pump,they depend on gears slinging the oil, oil is too thick it doesn't reach where it's supposed to. especially fifth gear

[Hauntd ca3]

there are a few manufacturers that spec atf in manuals,mazda and some fords that i know of for sure.
i have 80w90 in my 5spd and have had no probs at all with stiff shifting etc
but since she's only going to be a car that gets used only once and a while i'll prob use a lighter oil
i do however know of people running 4 stroke motorbike engine oil in manuaql trannies.
motor bike oil has to do engine,gearbox and clutch lubrication so it should be fine in a gearbox i think.
if you live in a climate thats fairly warm all the time you can run a thicker oil
and hve no probs .
when i was using mmy 3g all the time it was always distance driving so the box was always hot so i had no probs with the thick oil
if you are doing mainly short trips or live in a cooler climate a thinner oil would be the better bet.

[AccordB20A]

B20A gearboxes dont have an end cap for 5th gear so it wont have oiling issues. ATF is pretty thin, Im sure one of the manual b20 boxes i had came with atf, was a mint box too

[Kabuki]

I'm not sure why anyone bothers fucking with anything else. Honda has spent millions of dollars researching and developing fluids just for their transmissions. Why would any of us think that we know better than Honda? Why experiment with other fluids? Why would you risk your vehicle on your own ego? Honda has built their reputation on the hardiness and longevity of their hardware, due in part to the work they put in to design. They wouldn't stake that reputation on substandard fluids. If they didn't care, they would just sell a friction modifier or something. Or just go with a standard fluid. You guys just confuse the hell out of me.

[lostforawhile]

I'm not sure why anyone bothers fucking with anything else. Honda has spent millions of dollars researching and developing fluids just for their transmissions. Why would any of us think that we know better than Honda? Why experiment with other fluids? Why would you risk your vehicle on your own ego? Honda has built their reputation on the hardiness and longevity of their hardware, due in part to the work they put in to design. They wouldn't stake that reputation on substandard fluids. If they didn't care, they would just sell a friction modifier or something. Or just go with a standard fluid. You guys just confuse the hell out of me.because the manual fluid was designed for the newer honda transmissions,i'm sure it works good, but the owners manual also says you can use motor oil. it's bunch of gears, a good quality motor oil in the proper viscosity will work fine. My owners manual even has a viscosity chart for different tempratures. They raced old Hondas on standard motor oil in the trannys for years, they held up just fine.

[russiankid]

I'm not sure why anyone bothers fucking with anything else. Honda has spent millions of dollars researching and developing fluids just for their transmissions. Why would any of us think that we know better than Honda? Why experiment with other fluids? Why would you risk your vehicle on your own ego? Honda has built their reputation on the hardiness and longevity of their hardware, due in part to the work they put in to design. They wouldn't stake that reputation on substandard fluids. If they didn't care, they would just sell a friction modifier or something. Or just go with a standard fluid. You guys just confuse the hell out of me.

Back then you could run motor oil in the transmission without issues. Now, motor oil has lots of different additives which some transmission don't like.

[lostforawhile]

Back then you could run motor oil in the transmission without issues. Now, motor oil has lots of different additives which some transmission don't like.these transmissions are pretty simple, they are pretty happy on motor oil, if you want to run oil the idea of running the motorcycle oil is a pretty good idea, it is designed for gearboxes also.

[Ichiban]

it doesn't have the correct friction properties,it's designed for hydraulic circuits and the wet clutchs in an automatic. stick with oil or the honda manual fluid.also running an oil thats too thick is going to damage your tranny,these don't have an oil pump,they depend on gears slinging the oil, oil is too thick it doesn't reach where it's supposed to. especially fifth gear

The New Process 208 transfer case (found in 80-95ish fullsize pickups) uses Dexron II as lubricant. And a transfer case is way closer to a manual transmission than an automatic.

[AccordB20A]

no matter what oil i put in i get play in the diff so im considering going to ise honda mtf when i got money next

[redaztec]

I put the Honda MTF in my RSX transmission. It feels like I got a whole new trans - shifts are far smoother now than with whatever fluid came in it. I'd recommend it!

[Kabuki]

The New Process 208 transfer case (found in 80-95ish fullsize pickups) uses Dexron II as lubricant. And a transfer case is way closer to a manual transmission than an automatic.

It's also a Ford. You can't trust those guys.


I don't understand the resistance here. It doesn't make any sense.

[lostforawhile]

The New Process 208 transfer case (found in 80-95ish fullsize pickups) uses Dexron II as lubricant. And a transfer case is way closer to a manual transmission than an automatic.but those were designed for atf from the beginning. these transmissions were not. if you really want to get fancy,redline makes a synthetic manual transmission oil just for manuals that are designed for motor oil, I wonder who actually makes the honda manual fluid? It's just another companies product with honda stuck on the bottle. probably redline.

[Ichiban]

It's also a Ford. You can't trust those guys.


I don't understand the resistance here. It doesn't make any sense.

Mine's actually in a 3/4 ton GM. Though you can find New Process boxes in just about anything.

As for the resistance thing, as far as I'm concerned a lubricant has two critical points in order for it to function. It has to actually be there in sufficient quantity to create a fluid film, and it has to be clean. It could be canola oil for all it fucking matters. As long as it's the proper viscosity to flow to the parts and then separate them, cool them off a bit, and not be full of dirt, it's gonna work just as well as the $10 per litre bottle of "MTF"

Come to think of it, NP and Honda probably bought some of their bearings off of the same companies, as neither actually make their own. So if the same SKF 6206 (for example) bearing can be used in either application with either lubricant, it just proves my point. The bearings don't care, and gears are gears, regardless of who made them, Japanese or domestic.

[Oldblueaccord]

Thats a chain drive case your quoting there lil differant then the stadnard gear box.

[cygnus x-1]

From what I understand it mostly has to do with the synchros and not the gears or bearings. Supposedly they need some amount of friction to operate correctly (like a limited slip diff) so the MTFs have friction modifiers to create this. Also the motor oil formulations have changed since 10 years ago so modern motor oils are not really suitable for manuals anymore. Or that's the story at least. Probably the only way to really resolve this would be to ask a Honda design engineer. While I doubt modern motor oil will damage the older manuals I suspect Honda MTF will make them shift better. But that's subjective, so... <shrug>.

As an aside, several years ago I remember a conversation with a mechanical engineer who had done some work with industrial gear drives. He said that contrary to popular belief the lubrication requirements for gears were much more stringent than you would think. The different gear types and tooth profiles have very specific lubrication requirements for long life and noise free operation.

So I think the idea of a dedicated MTF is at least plausible.

C|

[Ichiban]

Thats a chain drive case your quoting there lil differant then the stadnard gear box.


wp


Yes, it's a chain drive box, but it still has a conventional geartrain for the low range reduction. And yes, the NP205/203 were completely gear driven boxes, and were lubricated with 80w-90.


From what I understand it mostly has to do with the synchros and not the gears or bearings. Supposedly they need some amount of friction to operate correctly (like a limited slip diff) so the MTFs have friction modifiers to create this. Also the motor oil formulations have changed since 10 years ago so modern motor oils are not really suitable for manuals anymore. Or that's the story at least. Probably the only way to really resolve this would be to ask a Honda design engineer. While I doubt modern motor oil will damage the older manuals I suspect Honda MTF will make them shift better. But that's subjective, so... <shrug>.

As an aside, several years ago I remember a conversation with a mechanical engineer who had done some work with industrial gear drives. He said that contrary to popular belief the lubrication requirements for gears were much more stringent than you would think. The different gear types and tooth profiles have very specific lubrication requirements for long life and noise free operation.

So I think the idea of a dedicated MTF is at least plausible.

C|


I see what you're saying. My ATV (a Honda Foreman 450) requires engine oil that does not have "energy conserving" in the API service logo, as the energy conserving oils have additives that will destroy the wet clutches in the transmission. (engine and tranny sharing a common bath.) Possibly the modern energy conserving additives reduce the friction that's required for the blocking rings to grab the synchro rings properly?

My understanding of lube requirements comes from the intended load of the geartrain, a primary reduction (ie tranny) usually involves high speeds and comparatively low torque. A thinner lubricant is in order here for reasons of cooling, flow, and to reduce friction losses due to the viscosity of the lubricant. Meanwhile, a final drive (ie rear diff) requires a thicker lube, due to the slower speeds, higher torque and extreme pressures created by the gear reduction farther up the line.

I suppose the grease in the wheelbearings could demonstrate the final stage of this whole viscosity vs load idea?

Now keep in mind that the Honda FWD tranny incorporates primary reduction, synchronizers, and final drive in one lubrication bath. What lubricant can do it all?