View Full Version : removing black box - 85 accord -
its me again....
im very interested in this black box removal, but i dont think that the how to on the 3g will carry over to my gen, since mines a 3Bbl. if anyone knows anything about how i may get this done id like to know....
A20A1
11-25-2004, 01:51 AM
I'd need a vacuum diagram... it shouldn't be too hard.
A20A1
11-25-2004, 02:14 AM
Interesting:
http://www.aircarecolorado.com/repair/honda.htm
http://www.aircarecolorado.com/repair/fixit.htm
Anyways I'm still searching for a diagram...
you gunna find the diagram or you want me to?
anyways, im not sure what the deal was with the links or whatnot...guess its just stuff you found while searching.
A20A1
11-26-2004, 01:41 AM
yeah just stuff i found... carb jargon, that may help explain a few things to me.
If you can find a diagram cool... you might want to look on the underside of your hood for a vacuum diagram sticker...
theres one on the underside of the hood, but i dont have a digital camera or know anyone who does.
ill see what i can find, if you find something let me know.
im trying to meet up with a buddy of mine to get a pic of the vacuum diagram off teh underside of my hood, and im gunna snap some shots of my my extra carb as well.
im trying to find the link on the writeup for the mechanical second on the 3g's
A20A1
11-29-2004, 10:59 PM
it may be different you have a 3bbl
yeah i know....thats why i was gunna get some pics of the carb as well.
im just gunna end up takin a good highrez pic of the vacuum diagram thats on the bottom of the hood and sending that to ya as well. i was planning on take'n 6 pics of the carb...top, bottom, and each side
got the pics. i took a pic of each side of the carb as well, cause i would guess that the vacuum removal would also include the mechanical second...and since you cant drop by, you could (if you could be so generous) make me some diagrams for the conversion out or the carb pics. on a side not, i wasnt sure if i could get a good clear pic of the diagram (it was dark, and im unsteady) so i took a few pics of it...
Diagram 1 (http://members.cox.net/the_darken_side/Carb%20Shit/Diagram1.jpg)
Diagram 2 (http://members.cox.net/the_darken_side/Carb%20Shit/diagram2.jpg)
Diagram 3 (http://members.cox.net/the_darken_side/Carb%20Shit/diagram3.jpg)
Carb from front (http://members.cox.net/the_darken_side/Carb%20Shit/carb-front.jpg)
Carb from passenger side (http://members.cox.net/the_darken_side/Carb%20Shit/carb-passengerside.jpg)
Carb from back (http://members.cox.net/the_darken_side/Carb%20Shit/carb-back.jpg)
Carb from driver side (http://members.cox.net/the_darken_side/Carb%20Shit/carb-driverside.jpg)
Carb top (http://members.cox.net/the_darken_side/Carb%20Shit/carb-top.jpg)
Carb bottom (http://members.cox.net/the_darken_side/Carb%20Shit/carb-bottom.jpg)
if you want to resize any of the pics, go right ahead...i didnt want to distort the image so i left them the size they where on the camera.
A20A1
12-05-2004, 01:06 PM
yup I'm here, I'm working on it... I can't be too sure what I'm doing since i don't know the contents of the black box... do you still have the camera?
naw, but i can get pics. i wasnt sure if you where working on it or if you had any idea that i had gotten the requested pics.
AIM me.
A20A1
12-15-2004, 04:38 AM
Your pics didn't show #14 or #6 but I did my best.
Store all parts you remove just in case.
Under the choke and fast idle unloader there is an idle diaphragm... what vacuum hose connects to the idle diaphragm? Is it #32?
You have a second diaphragm on the other side of the carb with #6 coming off of it... they lable it as DASHPOT.
You need the #6 idle controller
You shouldn't need the A/C idle boost controller that uses #32
#14 I assume is the powervalve connected to the carb
#2 is the single vacuum advance connected to the distributor
#18 and #19 are for choke operation ( Choke opener / Fast Idle Unloader )
#17 is a bleed hose
Please let me know if #6 #14 or #2 are in any way connected to a Check Valve. Check Valves are orange on one end and clear/white plastic on the other... they connect inline with a vacuum line. If any are located between the manifold vacuum taps and the part connected to the # let me know.
#2, #6, #14 all connect to manifold vacuum... use any port coming directly off the intake manifold as a vacuum tak as long as it isn't already being used after you removed the vacumm lines. Manifold vacuum ports at the rear of the manifold make more vacuum then ones locater further towards the cylinder head.
I hope this pic helps... I'm kinda worried about where the air jet controller is... if there was any.
In the diagram I'm posting make sure you plug the unused vacuum ports on the carb and the intake manifold.
A20A1
12-15-2004, 04:48 AM
Be very cautious the first time you start it up... be ready to adjust the idle screws, know where they are.
I'm wondering about #19 and if it really needs to connect to manifold vacuum like that... It makes me wonder if the 3G should have a manifold vacuum tap as well.
Also when looking for manifold vacuum taps... the thermovalves are not vacuum taps they are valves. Find a large or medium size metal port at the rear of the manifold and use the metal vacuum lines you removed to adapt the vacuum lines to the tap.
I see a FOUR port vacuum tap extendeing out of the manifold... #19 is the only one that uses it in the new diagram... I suppose it could be used to controll #14, #2, and #6... it should make for a clean connection even though it would get the best vacuum since it's not a rear port.
Currently in the diagram #2 #14 and #6 all connect to the vacuum tap on the opposite side of the manifold.
oh #25 can remain connected from the distributor port directly to the thermovalve if you choose... if not plug #25 port on the thrmovalve.
wow. thanks man.
ok, just for margin of error on my part, im gunna wait till my car becomes completely mine before i do that. im sharing it right now with my girl.
accordlxi2.0
12-15-2004, 11:36 AM
hmm i wonder why honda went from 3bbl to 2 bbl.....
i mean would'nt one think that the 3bbl is better??
i was wondering the same thing. dont know what to say about that one
A20A1
12-17-2004, 07:41 PM
I'm only 70% sure the diagram is correct. :)
So I'm glad you're not jumping into it.
yeah. as soon as i get around to it im gunna print it all out and answer your questions.
http://members.cox.net/the_darken_side/Carb%20Shit/carb-back-vacuum.jpg
http://members.cox.net/the_darken_side/Carb%20Shit/carb-driverside-vacuum.jpg
as far as the check valves there are only three of them. but there is another valve thing that looks similar, but its got tree hoses attached to it. its orange and blue and it goes to the cruise control stuff.
ill get more later
located #6 & #14.
http://members.cox.net/the_darken_side/Carb%20Shit/diagram3-.jpg
so from your diagram it looks as if A-M (on the legend at the bottom), the air chamber, and the EGR are not used and can be removed right? of course the EGR has to have a vcover plate over its original mounting location.
any other questions or anything you arent sure about or you need some more info.
A20A1
01-06-2005, 10:56 PM
You don't have to remove the EGR valve, you can just remove the vacuum line ( #16 ). But yeah if you remove the valve then you need to make a blocking plate.
Thre air suction valve needs to be blocked off as well if it is removed or you can just remove the vacuum line to the valve ( #5 )
the air sucktion valve that goes to the air chamber? ok, seems like maybe block it on the filter holder and the air chamber. if thats correct why not just remove the air chamber and block it on the filter holder. the air chamber has nothing hiding under it but has a line attached to the exhaust manifold. i was thinking get a Ex mani from a 3g since they dont have the air chamber connector dealio.
im still wondering about the things on the legend at the bottom of the diagram, thay are all being negated if im reading right.
A20A1
01-08-2005, 01:13 AM
Thats what I ment, if you remove the valve you need to block the port to the exhaust manifold... sure you can run the EX exhaust manifold, just make sure that they both bolt up the same way from the manifold to the downpipe to the cat.
to the cat im not sure about, i havent taken measurements on that yet but the exhaust manifold gasket numbers match for both the ES and the A20 engine. for now ill just block them off. when i said Ex mani i meant Ex= exhaust.
im still gunna be runnin an electronic second arent i? when you say be ready for carb adjustments thats not gunna mean A/F adjustments is it? ive already deternimed i suck at that, but i dont have a problem with idle adjustments.
A20A1
01-08-2005, 02:03 AM
lol I thought EX was a different model, you need the EFI manifold and downpipe for sure... but does your motor tilt at all? you may have trouble getting the downpipe to the cat... also the oil pans may be different, I dunno.
i was thinking as such. lol sorry to be houinding ya bout this a bit, i juat wanna make sure its gunna work out pretty good when i finally get to it.
off topic...its snow/cold as hell lately and im having a bit of cold start issues, so i give it a pump and it pretty much starts right up but when i let it sit and warm for a bit it idles between 3000 and 4500rpm but after a few minutes fo driving i put it back in park it idles fine. idle in park is supposed to be at 2500 according to the factory specs. either one isnt a sign of any major problem is it?
A20A1
01-08-2005, 02:24 AM
cold fast idle is between 2500 and 3500 I believe, but after it warms up the idle should go to about 1,000 - 1,100 and when you go into gear ( Auto ) it should drop to about 900 - 1,000
like for instance i just warmed it to the store it was up to about 4200 in park and 1500 in gear. just seems really really odd to me. iono
when i finally get to the line removal ill take some pics and post em up. i may get to do it today (saturday) i really appreciate all the assistance mang.
i started on it. i took #14 and #6 to the four port vacuum tap extendeing out of the manifold, i took #2 to where #15 was on the original diagram. on the distributor i put 25 and took it to the three port vacuum tap on the back of the manifold (just like it was in the factory spec)
the air chamber= i disconntected the line and plugged it so i guess i dont need to worry about teh pipes that connect to the air filter? i was also wondering on the new diagram what the deal was with the #17 and #17 on the back ports that dont go anywhere...?
i oopsed as well, i didnt realize that the back mani ports where plastic and i broke off the connector for one of the lines. not really worried i was gunna seal it off with some silicone.
A20A1
01-09-2005, 02:20 AM
Before you plug ports with scilicone, make sure they aren't thermovalves... if they are thermovalves then you should replace them since they control the choke and fast idle.
#17 #18 and #19 all need to be connected to the thermovalve as shown in the diagram... I'm a bit unsure if at the 3 way connector on #19, that there should be a connection to the manifold vacuum... or if #19 should just go from the thrmovalve to the fast idle unloader on the carb with no extra connection to manifold vacuum.
#25 is going to the thermovalve... it isn't a three port vacuum tap. It's good that you did that. If you didn't want to run #25 then just cap the port on the thermovalve.
#17 can be combined with the other #17 with a 3 way connector, then run a single line up to the #17 port at the base of the air cleaner...
ok, so the #17 and #17 on the diagram are connecting together then to the filter element. ok.
the three way connector that #19 is going to is the one that broke. honestly its the one that is capped that broke off so if i totally go with the new diagram everything is perfect even though it broke.
what would be the difference with #19 on manifold vacuum as apposed to from the thermovalve to the fast idle unloader. ill try it both ways but if its not a totally noticeable difference then i wont know.
A20A1
01-09-2005, 04:57 PM
well in one way you don't connect #19 to manifold vacuum, in the other way, the way the diagram shows it, you do connect #19 to manifold vacuum...
be careful how you seal the port on the thermovalve... there are moving parts inside the valve, so if the plug you use to cap off the hhole seeps inside it could cause the valve to stick.
ah ha, i see. like i said i was just gunna put some silicone gasket maker on the outside of the thermovalve. that shouldnt seep into the valve.
i also noticed a line that goes into the firewall, im guessin that it may go to the heater or seomthing. i think i remember removing a line from teh heater when i puled a dash from a salvaged car. that wont cause any heating issues will it?
A20A1
01-09-2005, 06:25 PM
Heater?
Is it a small line?
are you sure it didn't go to the charcaol canister? big black round plastic thing?
That line leads back to the fuel tank.
its a small line and it does go to a charcoal canister.
why would it go to the fuel tank?? the reason i thought heater was that one of the lines is said to lead to the heater control vacuum tank.
sorry for all the questions, but he who asks questions learns more... :D
phrenology
01-10-2005, 12:19 AM
Man that ES2 emissions gear for the carburetor is a jungle. Take a look and see what I've done with my ES2 powered Accord. I just got my cardomain pages updated with photos. Trying to fix/replace all of the emissions recirculation gear is like trying to reinvent the CVCC engine. Let me know if you need parts I have about 3 cars worth of ES2 G/2 Parts. I also have a fair amount of 3G parts too. I also have an extra 85 mechanics service manual.
:rocket:
sure thing man. im bouts to head to bed, but ill take a look tomorow.
A20A1
01-10-2005, 09:01 AM
Hmm, well if the line that was connected to the firewall is red then its the fuel vapor line, otherwise, i've never seen a vacuum line go thru the firewall, there are two coolant lines that go to the heater core, but I'm only assuming you have some of the same hookups as the 3G
its not a red line, there is a red line but it went to a charcoal canister. im tellin you man i honestly remember removing a line from the dash that didnt have any wires in it. ill get in there and find out where it went
what happens if the broken port on the thermovalve isnt plugged. like maybe my sealing job doesn completely seal it off?
anyone know what would happen if a thermovalve had a port unsealed and i went to start my car?? would it be driveable, or would it cause any problems. i broke one and attempted to seal it but im not really completely certain if it sealed off.
A20A1
01-11-2005, 07:09 AM
#25 allows vacuum to go to the distributor... if it wasn't sealed properly you'll have a vacuum leak when the valve is open... when the valve is closed, usually once the car warms up, then there should be no leak or a very small one.
ok i did alot of searching on thermovalves and the functions of them. keep in mind i have an 85.
the one that broke is thermovalve A: #17, #19, and the third line is plugged. well the one that should have been plugged broke off. from checking the stock diagram from my car and also a stock diagram from a 3g it seems both have the exact same thermovalve setup, A is on the drivers side of the Intake mani, B is pretty much the middle guy, and C is next to the thermostat. im sure you prolly noticed this too, A on my car is connected to vacuum advance, the electronic thing on the side of my carb, and to the filter. the line on the filter ends with a open port witha little plastic thingy on it just behind the filter itself. id guess its the same as a 3gs bleed valve. ok it seems as if the #17 from the thermovalve on the 3g has had people leave it off completely since all it does is vent to open air anyways. so i guess that id be ok if i dont plug it at all.
heres a diagram showing which one...
http://members.cox.net/statik_1/Diagram1_3bblKeihin2.jpg
A20A1
01-11-2005, 05:47 PM
You sent me a PM, what did you need?
#25 is the port on the thermovalve that I marked with a dot, because I wanted you to plug that port... but you said you broke it... and now you are pointing at it with yellow arrows. :D Anyways, please try your best to plug it... since the ony port that sould be left open is #17.
#17 is the bleed and can connect to the air box or left unconnected, usually you connect it to the air box because it bleeds inside the filter, that way if the flow were to reverse it would suck in filtered air. Not saying it will reverse...
Before you start it make sure that any port that isn't used and that is still in some way connected to the manifold should be capped off, sillicone is not a good vacuum cap and could be sucked into the vacuum lines or manifold. if you have to... Find 2 unused ports that are both manifold vacuum ports... you can run a vacuum line from one port to the other port in order to plug both ports.
don't use that method to plug the thermovalves... use a vacuum cap or carefully wrap the port with electrical tape.
The #25 port on the distributor doesn't need to be plugged...
large manifold vacuum ports can be plugged by sticking a bolt or something big that wont get sucked in... into the vacuum line. something slightly larger then the vacuum line will give a good seal... just be careful cause bolts have threads and the vacuum could leak if you don't stick the bolt in far enough so that it covers all the threads and a little more.
A20A1
01-11-2005, 06:05 PM
oh the ports on the carb...
the float bowl vent pipe and vacuum por on the float bowl vent diaphragm don't need to be plugged.
The blue line represents the vacuum line...
I'd rather you use vacuum caps on all the ports, but I don't think you have that many unless you go out and buy them... I'm not sure what size ports you have on your carb either, so for now use the vacuum line method for pluggin 2 ports at a time.
I did make a note on the image, cause I'm concerned that the port might be related to the idle... but then again it might go straight thru and into the barrel of the carb... if you have a small wire you can stick the wire thru the port and see if it exits on the inside of the carb barrel... if it does then plugging the ports the way i show it is just fine...
Make sure you look thru the top of the barrel and thru the bottom, and maybe open the throttle a little by hand to make sure that the thorttle plate isn't covering the port when you try to run the wire thru the port.
A20A1
01-11-2005, 06:26 PM
when everything is set start the car let it fully warm up... if the idle doesn't drop after it warms up let me know... if the idle drops before it's supposed to and the car isn't fully warmed up let me know...
if the idle jumps around or raises out of control PM me. I may or may not be available... so warm up the car completely and adjust the diaphragm till the idle drops...
go over previous things I mentioned:
Like when I said to try and have #19 hooked to manifold vacuum, and then try it without the ( "T" / 3-Way ) connection to manifold vacuum.
Remember if you need " T " connectors use the ones you removed...
ok the diagram i posted shows the one that broke. i am online and going through the things that you mentioned...please keep with me here man. i have got to go to work tomorow. sorry to be pushy im just worried about my finances. ill edit the post as i do things.
ok the bottom two ports on your first recent pic go straight through, but not sure about the top two. for shits and giggles and safteys sake ill just loop them.
A20A1
01-11-2005, 06:37 PM
awe man, couldn't you have waited till the weekend.
I'll check back every couple of minuets...
I hope it runs. :)
well i started saturday, but sunday my girls car roasted the clutch. had to deal with that and her emotions all day ..im still adding to the first reply
float bowl vents removed. and i went out friday and bought a box of plugs and T's
about the broke thermovalve... if i just left the broken port open would it be ok, and then the one that isnt broken can be attached to the vacuum advance. there doesnt really seem to be a way of plugging that thermovalve that i can think of.
as far as removing that diaphram is it for a certain reason, or is it a hunch? i dont mind testin it but im sure its gunna be a paint puttin it back on. :)
sorry bout the dual topic thing, just didnt think that anyone that didnt know the 85's would even take a look at this post. thought id touch a little closer to home with the other one, since it seems that thermovalve A on the 1.8 is perty much the same thing as the thermovalve A on the 2.0.
A20A1
01-11-2005, 07:35 PM
The one that isn't broken belongs to #19
and the other one is #17 which is the bleed.
If you place a vacuum line to the #17 then vacuum wont be able to bleed.
what you can do is try to run another "T" on #19 that way you'll have another port ner the thermovalve... you could use that to hook up #25.
you still need to cover the #25 port on the thermovalve... it is a vacuum passage and will most likely cause a vacuum leak. if you had hot glue maybe you could plug it with that... just apply it around the mouth of the port and let it slowly cover the hole... it may or may not last...
i highlighted the wrong damn port, its the one that you have 17 attached to that is broken
its a three port, with #17 #19 and a plug attached. the port that #17 goes on is broke and i attached the one that was supposed to be plugged to #25, and 19 is on the end port.
A20A1
01-11-2005, 07:39 PM
if worse comes to worse... you might be able to get away with using only one thermovavle...
add a "T" to #18 near the thermovalve... then connect the #19 from the thermovalve to the "T" on #18.
remember if the car has a hard time running with #19 connecter to manifold vacuum then remove the "T" and keep #19 from the thermovalve to the fast idle unloader on the choke.
again don't worry about #25...
should i start it? with my current setup of #19 on the end port, and 25 on the unbroke port, and the other port open since it goes to the bleed valve.
the four ports on the carb have the bottom two plugged and the top two looped together
A20A1
01-11-2005, 07:41 PM
oh then don't worry about it
ill plug the T on #19 if it has problems running
dont worry about the thermovalve broken port?
A20A1
01-11-2005, 07:42 PM
I would have plugged the top two and looped the bottom two, but I guess it's okay for now. I guess there isn't much room for a vacuum line across the bottom two.
A20A1
01-11-2005, 07:43 PM
Yeah if it's #17 just leave it.
plenty of room for a line, but i could see the wire inside of the carb.
A20A1
01-11-2005, 07:47 PM
oh on that diaphragm I was telling you you can remove... well if you don't decide to remove it then at least make sure you turn the adjustment screw out so it't not touching the thorttle linkage...
will do, thats what i was thinking anyways
all adjustments will be made on the idle screw right?
A20A1
01-11-2005, 07:49 PM
So are you ready to start yet? all manifold vacuum ports capped off? all electrical wires hooked to the carb? except the wires for the base of the carb if your carb has an EFE screen... I wouldn't hook up that wire.
A20A1
01-11-2005, 07:51 PM
yes the idle screw... just wait though untill the car has fully warmed up... wait for the fan to turn on or for the needle on the temp gauge to reach what it normally does after you have driven for a while.
the fast idle unloader and some other little thingy thats right about the four ports on the carb are the only wired items on it, but im going to double check all line connections before i start it and disconnect the diaphram from the linkage
A20A1
01-11-2005, 07:59 PM
You mean remove right? not disconnect...
8mm socket or wrench should get off those 2 bolts... or use the screw dirver... and you'll need some pliers to get off the pin.
A20A1
01-11-2005, 08:05 PM
how did you hook you #14 #6 and #2 ?
Did you just use vacuum T's and connect it like it shows in the diagram or did you connect them to the other ports on the same part where #19 is connected to manifold vacuum?
Either way is fine...
A20A1
01-11-2005, 08:09 PM
Yeah the choke wire and the little solenoid that bolts onto the carb needs to have power to them... just making sure :D
#14 #6 are to the four port manifold vacuum on the drivers side, and #2 is on the passenger side where the three of them where to go to originally.
i disconnected the diaphram from the linkage by removing the pin that was through it, its still on the carb. im going to remove the screws that hold it on, but thats all thats holding it on right now.
all electronics are attached as they where before i started :thumbup:
everythings been checked and double checked and im bouts to start it. :hs:
#25 is connected to the thermovalve
A20A1
01-11-2005, 08:26 PM
yeah remove the diaphragm completely...
thats good with #25 from the thermovalve to the distributor you'll have the extra cold vacuum advance. it should help you run / idle smoother.
and hurry I'm starting to doze off... it's almost time for me to go to bed. :ugh:
ok, its going from 14 to 18 rpm. drops slowly but comes back up quick.
note...its smokeing quite a bit, its grey smoke
A20A1
01-12-2005, 12:40 AM
The idle speed and smoke... First two important questions
Is this before durring or after warm up?
is the choke open or closed?
Does the car idle okay or sputter?
If or when the car is fully warm does the up and down idle go away?
did you try removing the #19 manifold vacuum.
Also try adjusting the idle once the car has fully warmed up...
my internet keeps booting me...
If the surging still doesn't go away when the car is fully warm reconnect #19 to manifold and use the thorttle stop screw to set the idle and disconnect #6. make sure you plug #6 where it connects to manifold vacuum. the throttle stop screw is the big black screw at the back or front of the carb, you can usually turn it by hand...
Warm up the car fully, If you have an automatic you Set the thorttle stop screw slightly above 1,000 rpm so that when you put the car in gear the idle drops to 1,000 rpm. If you have a manual car try and keep the rpm's about the same 1,000 rpm idle but lower it if the idle is too high when in neutral... too high meaning 1,300... try and get it to idle nice and still be about 1,100 in neutral.
---
If you have trouble with the choke not opening fully once the car has warmed and you feel like the choke is still choking your motor... up you can try to use a metal wire to pull open the choke plate and hold it open... careful that you only affect the choke plate and not the throttle linkages... open the chokle and run the wire as shown in the image below.
readjust idle speed as nessecary... remember only hold the choke open if it's doesn't open by itself after the carb is fully warm. make sure you lower the idle if ide is too high.
A20A1
01-12-2005, 01:03 AM
Go back one page to Read my previous post if this post causes this thread to make another page...
......................
The black smoke can be from an overly rich mixture or from the carb choke being partly closed or mostly closed... the choke is used to richen the mixture when the car is cold by restricting how much air can enter the carb.
Let me know if the smoke stops when the car is fully warm...
I'm going to bed now... sorry for the delay in the reply... I'l check this thread while I'm at school tomorrow.
-----------------
Oh I forgot that your idle diaphragm doesn't have an adjustment screw... only a metal tab that you bend.
---------------
If you still get lots of black smoke... try and remove #14 temporarily and see if the black smoke goes away or gets worse... if it gets worse then reconnect #14.
Can you circle in the picture of the black box you sent me... what the #14 was connected to. If it's just a solenoid with 2 ports then never mind but if it has more then two ports let me know.
----------
its not black smoke, its grey.
ill have to check the choke when i get home tonight. i went to the store last night, and when i went back home the idle seemed to stabilize. the idle thing isnt realy a surge, it moves at a very steady pace. it does drop slowly and go back up faster, but at a slow pace. it does it wether warm or cold. the fast idle has always been kinda weird on the car.
the most important thing is the smoke, cause its irritating. like i said the idle isnt bad and i think it may have stabilized itself. im thinking fast idle isnt kickin in right now, which i dont see as a problem.
let me see if i get this right:fast idle is supposed to idle somewhat high, then when warmed up it drops down. to get the car to warmup faster
A20A1
01-12-2005, 01:10 PM
yeah...
grey smoke... well not quite white not quite black... maybe coolant or oil, or just poor combustion... it smokes all the time then?
athough oil sometimes is more blue... there isn't a coolant port on the manifold is there that leads into the carb?
well the smoke has subsided, from what i can tell when its warm it seems to not smoke. i dont know if its just in my head, but the acceleration/throttle response seems to have gotten better.
#19 is not connected to manifold vacuum. i havent tried to mess with #14 yet. the idle is not doing anything out of the ordinary, but when i get to higway speeds or floor it at higher speeds the car shimmeys. i dont know if its doing that from something we did, or motor mounts. my upper motor mount (the one on the passenger side, next to the carb) seems loose as hell.
what would this coolant port on the carb look like?
heres a pic of where #14 went to yellow is what it connects to or the line itself, red is not #14 its #20
http://members.cox.net/statik_1/DSC00522.JPG
http://members.cox.net/statik_1/DSC00523.JPG
WTF is this thing? im thinking something to do with cruise. it had vacuum lines attached and theres wires going to it.
the yellow is a line that goes to the frame rail, and the red is a cable similar to the throttle cable. what is this thing exactly and can it be disconnected/removed?
http://members.cox.net/statik_1/WTF.jpg
i made two posts, the other has the answers to your questions and such... :thumbup:
A20A1
01-13-2005, 08:28 AM
That is the cruize controll diaphragm... the red line is what controlls the thorttle... the yellow line is for the vacuum signal... not sure if it's function is to contorl the speed or not. There is usually a vacuum holding canister and a check valve associated with cruize control.
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Oh so # 20 supplies # 14 with vacuum... did you say that you had an 85 service manual or was that someone else...
I wanted to look up the function of the " SHOT AIR VALVE CONTROL SOLENOID " since it's connected to line #20
or more important... the " SHOT AIR VALVE " since it appears that #14 is not entirely a " POWER VALVE " because on the 3G #14 goes to the " POWER VAVLE " Your's might have some control over the 3rd barrel... that can complicate things... but I assume it's load dependent... a drop in vacuum will begin to open it... and at wide open throttle vacuum is " 0 " so it would open fully.
the cruise control diaphram is not connected to the carb now, it can be removed right?
you lost me ont eh third barrel control thing. i get eh activation part but thats about it.
A20A1
01-13-2005, 09:18 PM
you have 3barrels... one is that tiny hole boardering the secondary barrel which is the barrel without the choke on it.
you can remove the cruise control... go inside the car first and unbolt the parts on the gas pedal that belong to the cruise control cable... only keep what you need to use the regular accel carb to the carb.
i knew it was a 3Bbl, you just kinda lost me on how it works. :-)
ok, im gunna remove that cruise shit since i guess it doesnt work now anyways.
still yet to check the #14. im off work tomorow and plan on poppin the hood for a bit, ill get it then
A20A1
01-14-2005, 01:28 PM
well don't bother with #14 if the car has stopped smoking.... I only suggested removing it in case #14 was a powervalve that could be stuck open or it opens under vacuum instead of with the absence of vacuum.
It would be neat to see though how the 3rd barrel is wired so to speak. cause without a cut away view of the carb I can only guess how it works?
if i dissasembled the spare carb and took some pics is there any possibility i could cause any problems? by problems i mean: mess up anything or make it harder to be rebuilt for the guy im gunna have rebuild it
why take pics? since i dont know how to do a cutaway without thrashing the whole thing you could see inside of it.
i thank you more than you know for all the help youve given me and i hope that i havent gotten on your nerves with my somewhat pushyness
BTW, i was lookin at part numbers for oil pans and the gasket and from the 3g the ES2 uses the same gasket and theres only one number difference from the part numbers on the pan itself. its like 108a and 108b. the a and b are the only difference in the pan but the actuall number i dont remember right off hand. i noticed visually they have the same dimensions the only thing is the 3g pan has a little spout thing that mine doesnt, but as far as the pipe from the cat to the manifold they are totally different numbers, and no visual representation. mine uses the same exhaust manifold gasket for the block side. ill prolly take a look at both manifolds but not while in a car.
hootymo
01-18-2005, 02:03 AM
i am interested in doing the black box removal, but i want to keep my cruise. is this possible?
very posible, but this perticular black box removal stuffs wont work on your 87.
85 is a 2g accord, and 87 is a 3g accord lots of similarities but not completely the same.
hootymo
01-18-2005, 03:57 AM
very posible, but this perticular black box removal stuffs wont work on your 87.
85 is a 2g accord, and 87 is a 3g accord lots of similarities but not completely the same.
was this to my cruise control post or to the previous post?
A20A1
01-18-2005, 02:50 PM
Hmm cruise control may require things that are removed durring the 1986-1989 accord vacuum removal.
I'm not entirely sure how to keep it... I beleive the A/C and Cruise control are independent from the Black Box... So removing the box itself and plugging the vacuum ports shouldn't be a problem.
If it needs constant vacuum the constant vacuum valve is inside the black box...
If it only needs manifold vacuum then tap the control vacuum line(s) from the cruise control to the manifold vacuum.
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=11067
That is how to remove the vacuum lines on the 3G... I don't se why cruize is that important... in any case i don't have the parts or the time to try and get it to work, others have tried it with minimal to no results... you may have to experiment on your own.
hootymo
01-18-2005, 03:33 PM
see i dont need cruise that bad, i just like to use it a lot. now i am becoming a bit more accustomed to the carb but im still having a little trouble understanding the diagram. not sure what its telling me, any assistance would be cool, otherwise i am not sure i want to do it.
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