Early morning hell

[DanLXI88]

I have an intermitting problem in the mornings. Last couple of days my 88 LXI has been missing really badly when cold and large amounts of raw gas smelling smoke comes from the tail pipe. After it warms up the smoke stops and the idle smoothes out. ANY IDEAS?

[86LXItooFAST4me]

when was your last tune up?

[SteveDX89]

The missing could be due to moisture in the dizzy. Check to see if the cap is cracked anywhere.

[DanLXI88]

Tune up has been awhile honestly maybe 4 years at least. But this thing set for a very long time. I have been wanting to do the tune up to it but have not had time. Could this be the problem? Some days are worse then others.

[86LXItooFAST4me]

tune up involves the cap and rotor and all the ignition head aches. so possibly. couldnt hurt if its been 4 years anyway.

just do the cap and rotor and see if that helps.

[Mike's89AccordLX]

cap, rotor, spark plugs and wires. oil change :)

[AD9SloAccrd]

my car did that last year. it kept getting worse and worse and it ended up that i had to get a tune-up and timing belt... all that fun stuff.

[accordlxi2.0]

damn man, 4 years and i thought a year was bad.
that's your problem..but it's deffenatly the cap and rotor.
the sparkplugs just help the problem worsen more.

[AccordEpicenter]

yeah... does it throw a check engine light?

[DanLXI88]

Nope, no check engine light or codes from the computer. The Oil change I have done regularly. The timing belt was changed about 10k ago. I’ll check the distributor cap for cracks. Thanks for all the help so far i'll let you know how it goes.

[superdesi]

Yeah, but will a bad cap and rotor cause it to smoke from the tailpipe?

[smufguy]

Yeah, but will a bad cap and rotor cause it to smoke from the tailpipe?

a faulty cap or caked up rotor will cause insufficient spark transfer. This leads to improper conbustion in the cylinders due to weak spark pushing more unburnt gas than normal. All engines run richer than stoich under idling conditions, esp under warm up conditions to bring the engine to normal operating temp. So once the ignition problem is fixed, u will be running how its supposed to be running and burning right amount of fuel.

[BlueBead]

What he said; get that combustion going!

[DanLXI88]

While checking the cap for cracks, which it appears to not have any, I heard an arcing sound from the cap while it was missing. I checked all plug wires to insure connection and got zapped by one of the wires. After it got my attention I could see spark on the top of the wire where it plugs into the cap. Bad wire?

[86LXItooFAST4me]

yeah, the vibration and rubbing of the wires can wear a thin spot or even get down to the "bone" :D

also alot of the time the cracks in the caps are VERY hard to see.

youre in for a tune up my man, plain and simple


Cap, Rotor, wires, plugs, oil change like mike said

[smufguy]

plugs: $1.50 (ex: Bosch platinums)

Wires: $30-$40 (Magnacore, NGK, Moroso )

cap and rotor: $15 - $20 (Bosch, AcDelco)

These are available in any parts store like ur local national auto parts store, autozone or advance autoparts. U can also check up on Pepboys and Straus if u want.

NOTE: Whenever u intall the plugs. Clean the plug area BEFORE u pull the old ones out and then apply antizease on the new plug threads and hand tighten it and then use a torque wrench to torque it to 13 ft-lbs. NEVER over tighten it. a regular 21mm or 20mm socket would fit our sparkplugs and u dont have to spend extra money to get the spark plug socket.

[86LXItooFAST4me]

plugs: $150 (ex: Bosch platinums)


platinums are for high compression engines. they are a wast of money in our engines. i would just go with NGK iridium tips IF IT WERE ME :D

i also thin Bosch is overrated anyway, IMO

[smufguy]

platinum is for high compression?? the ones i got have our normal gap and are hotter plugs. U dont use hot plugs for high compression. Iridium on the other hand is about $6 EACH and its a colder plug. Its used for forced inducted motor or high compression motor. now YOU are wasting money buddy.

BOSCH is good, even tho they have made a name for themselves, they are still one of the best and readiliy available. Its like saying Honda is overrated as compared to Kia or Hyundai when they all pretty much the same reliability ratings. ((but yeah they do look like butt)).

[86LXItooFAST4me]

platinum is for high compression?? the ones i got have our normal gap and are hotter plugs. U dont use hot plugs for high compression. Iridium on the other hand is about $6 EACH and its a colder plug. Its used for forced inducted motor or high compression motor. now YOU are wasting money buddy.

BOSCH is good, even tho they have made a name for themselves, they are still one of the best and readiliy available. Its like saying Honda is overrated as compared to Kia or Hyundai when they all pretty much the same reliability ratings. ((but yeah they do look like butt)).


dude, i used to sell the shit. my opinion has nothing to do with the name they built for themselves, but simple the quality and cost of the parts. bosch was no better than our house brand on reliability and cost 3X the amount. im not bashing on Bosch or there products, im just telling the experience ive had with their products.

and on the platinum, you go me there i guess. i read and was told that platinum plugs where for vehicles with 10:1+ compression ratio. and i like the iridium because with my experiences with this car and other plugs they turned out the best with long life span, basically cleans itself and never get corroded. but i dont know :dunno: like i said, just IMO

[SteveDX89]

Who in the hell would pay $150 for spark plugs? I've got NGK Iridium plugs and I paid $26 for them. NGK are OEM plugs too.

[smufguy]

Who in the hell would pay $150 for spark plugs?

sorry about the typo it should have been $1.50............. smart butt :cool:

[Blkblurr]

If a tune up doesn't work try replacing your oxygen sensors. I paid $25 apiece for mine.

[accordlxi2.0]

dude if you got zapped and seen spark...that's one of the problems.
that happened with me.
this is weird..i had done a coolant change and i had the hose right beside the cap. and i went to start it up, and she was in a warm up mode.
i went to touched the top hose and it zapped the hell out of me.

and nuber 4 was sparking like crazy.

[DanLXI88]

That was a hell of a zap to and I did it like 4 times. The old plugs and wires are Autolite they worked well this far. I was thinking about another type of plug but I'm really not expecting too much performance out of this old 2.0. I am just looking for an inexpensive plug and wire set to get my by for now. And the list of items and prices looked pretty good to me. I must wait until this Friday before I can do the tune-up so I have some time to research the topic. Could the O2 sensors cause this problem with out a ECU code? I also thought that this problem could have been caused by the main fuel relay that I already fixed once?

[Blkblurr]

The oxygen sensors can cause a problem if worn or contaminated by silicon and not cause an ecu code. I would try new wires and plugs first.

[89cordlx]

cold those ngks be the reason my car has a hard time starting in the cold?

[86LXItooFAST4me]

cold those ngks be the reason my car has a hard time starting in the cold?

what do you mean? you have NGK plugs and your car is hard to start on cold morning?

if so, what part nbumber NGK do you have? and what do you have them gapped at?

[smufguy]

cold those ngks be the reason my car has a hard time starting in the cold?

probably not. BUt just pull it out and clean the terminals with a soft brush.

Oh whatelse have you chaged on ur car ? like fuel filter, cap and rotor and stuff like that. It could be ur starter too. or ur gas is freezing in the lines. Get a can of fuel treatment or fuel system cleaner and pour it in ur gas tank and see if the results vary.

[89cordlx]

I have a new dizzy, cap, rotor, new plugs, wires, and I run an accel coil. it can't be the starter because the car is turning over, and I ran some lucas fuel cleaner and it didn't change anything. the plugs might be gapped a little high, but I gapped them to the specifications I read on here. I took it to a mechanic and they said nothing was wrong with it. when I have time I am going to try pulling the plugs and close the gap.

[DanLXI88]

Well, after new wires, plugs (NGK from Advanced gapped at .44, Cap, and rotor I think I found the problem. There is a seal on the distributor that was severely worn and brittle, which was allowing for moisture to get into the cap. Where can I get a replacement? It was late and very cold so I used a very small bead of silicone to make the seal and I have not had any problems with it since. I also need 4 new injector seals any idea where I can find them?

[86LXItooFAST4me]

well the injector seals you can get at any part store or honda dealer.

now on the distributer seal, som caps that you buy have them but when i looked i couldnt find it at anypart store and none of the dist caps i looked at came with a new seal. some came with new screw though :D

so on the seal, that i know of, the dealer and majestic are the only two places that i found it. i got mine from majestic.

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=Accord&catcgry2=1986&catcgry3=4DR+LXI&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=DISTRIBUTOR+%28PGM-FI%29+%28TEC%29

its #13 on here:
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/catimgs/13SE00_F0202.gif

[89cordlx]

I have my ngks gapped at .44 or whatever it is, and I actually think that could be the reason my car is hard to start when it is cold. I am going to pull them and regap them.

[MarioBurke]

I have my ngks gapped at .44 or whatever it is, and I actually think that could be the reason my car is hard to start when it is cold. I am going to pull them and regap them.


They are supposed to be gapped at .45. that is not enough of a diffence to make a hard to start condition. infact a small gap would make it easier since the spark has less distance to travel between points.

[DanLXI88]

well the injector seals you can get at any part store or honda dealer.

now on the distributer seal, som caps that you buy have them but when i looked i couldnt find it at anypart store and none of the dist caps i looked at came with a new seal. some came with new screw though :D

so on the seal, that i know of, the dealer and majestic are the only two places that i found it. i got mine from majestic.

http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=Accord&catcgry2=1986&catcgry3=4DR+LXI&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=DISTRIBUTOR+%28PGM-FI%29+%28TEC%29

its #13 on here:
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/catimgs/13SE00_F0202.gif

Thanks for the 411. Yeah one of the screws holding the cap on broke off and had to be drilled out. The cap I bought from Advanced had new screws thank god!

[89cordlx]

I'll check my gap and se if the plugs are dirty. whats a good way to clean off sparkplugs? Oh, and winter has lifted a little bit so the temps are in the like 40's and my car has been alot easier to start as of late.

[DanLXI88]

Ok it’s back with a vengeance! Now I see a check engine light and I got 13 blinks on the ECU. I looked as best I can here at work for the break down on the ECU codes and couldn’t find anything PLEASE give me a link to the codes page or if you know what this code means let me know…

[Roach412]

http://hybrid2.honda-perf.org/tech/codes.html

-Roach

[Blkblurr]

You must have missed the decimal when reading his post $1.50

[Mac]

There is a thread here on this board. Code 13 is Baro sensor.