Fuel Pump Questions

[HondaBoy]

ok, now i personally think my fuel pump has gone caput. i was talking to my friend and i really dont think he knows what the hell he was talking about on my part. anyway, here's the think. before now, i've noticed that fuel would take a long time to come up to the filter, i have a see through filter in the engine bay. so, as i've been working on my car, it would take forever to get the fuel up when i'm trying to start the car. now, right now, i tried starting it and no fuel will come up at all. i did the priming by turning the key to the on position many times, i even left it there for a few minutes. here's another thing, i cant hear the fuel pump at all, even with the access cover off. i checked and its getting power, but it doesnt make any noise at all, i checked the fuse, but by getting power at the plug the fuse i already knew was good. so, is there any other way's to check the fuel pump? i'm thinking i'll have to take it out and connect it to a 12 volt tap. i guess i should also see if there's anything clogging my fuel filter by the left rear wheel. any suggestions?

[AccordEpicenter]

sounds like it might be shot... thats a rare occasion. Sounds like you know what youre doing. At this point id try a different pump

[86LXItooFAST4me]

do our cars have FP Relays? i mean i know they have a main fuse for the fuel pump but is there also a relay switch? my toyota had both, but i never really checked on the 3G

[Mac]

do our cars have FP Relays? i mean i know they have a main fuse for the fuel pump but is there also a relay switch? my toyota had both, but i never really checked on the 3G

Yep. FI uses the main relay and carbs have a fuel cutoff relay in the dash fuse panel. This shouldn't be the problem here because he has power at the pump.

[86LXItooFAST4me]

well if thats the case you then yeah, plus relays HARDLY ever go out. but im sure it is the pump but once i had a clogged pick up tube, it looked like some one had pocked a rag in my gas tank and eat up twine was all in my take. either way you going to have to pull the fuel pump. so good luck!

[HondaBoy]

ok, i made damn sure that the fuel filters werent clogged in any way. the one in the engine bay is fine as i've had my eye on that all the time anyway so i know when its getting dirty. the one behind the left rear wheel was free flowing. i poured the fuel that was in it out and put it back on. then i switched the car to the on position a good number of times, and cranked it over a few times. the rear fuel filter didnt fill up like it should. i went to this Autozone that stays open to 12:00 midnight and they had a few selections of new fuel pumps. the one i thought was worth getting included the pump, screen, and a few other parts. comes with a lifetime warrenty also. it was $90.99. the other one was $59.99, i think it had a lifetime warrenty. there was a third one, but i dont remember what the price was and it only had a 1 year warrenty :ugh:. i'll test the pump once more just to make sure everything was ok. what about upgrading to a different model's pump? i heard something about using the 80's camero's pump. dont know if that'd be worth doing though, or easy. i even put in some more gas into the tank, just to make sure it wasnt empty and giving a false fuel level reading. i finally got the car running nice with my carb rebuild, now this. i also checked the carb first to see if anything was wrong with it, nope, it just cant get any fuel to it due to there not being any comming up the line. any tips to ease the removal and installation would be nice, dont know if there's any.

[HondaBoy]

here's something i noticed. the plug for the fuel pump does get power, but only when the car is cranking over, and i guess that means when the engine is going. WTF is with that? thats not how its supposed to be, is it? that's why i couldnt hear the pump with it was in thet on position. any ideas why this would occur, i'm thinking something to do with a relay. ok, like when i put the key in the on position, without starting it, i get power for a second or two and then it goes off until i put the key in the starting position, thats cranking the engine over. i'm thinking of just wiring the fuel pump to a manual switch, wired up with a relay and circuit breaker. any ideas?

[AccordEpicenter]

nope that sounds right hondaboy. When you turn the key on, the pump primes for like 2 sec (that means the main relay is working) and then it doesnt come on again until you crank it over/start the engine. I use a 255LPH intank Walbro pump (cost like $90, trust me when i say its OVERKILL) but unless youre running well over 200hp the stock pump is just fine

[HondaBoy]

well, i got it started. i hadnt tried priming it since this after noon. also, before i left it alone, i had checked that plug to see if any power was comming through it, in doing that i had unplugged it. but i hadnt tried anything much after that. could it have just possibly been that the plug wasnt making a connection? now i'm thinking that, although, the front fuel filter still doesnt want to fill all the way up, i think it should but i dont know, that's after about 4 minutes of running. i didnt run it for longer than that yet. i'm thinking possibley that the plug disconnected somehow due to my sub in the trunk? maybe that vibrated it off some, even though its got a clip that's supposed to keep it from doing that. i think before i go spending any money, i'll got get a plug off another car, clean it up, and install it. anyway, i'd like to keep this topic open incase any other stuff happens. AccordEpicenter, i guess you would know about fuel pumps, your car would obviously need more fuel than an old stocker.

[BlueBead]

I though I'd put in my 2cents... fuel pumps have a limited lifespan, so you're better off if you replace the pump anyways while you have it all apart rather than have it go soon (if its not already screwed). Anyways, good luck to you

[HondaBoy]

well, my trunk is stripped of all the plastic trim and carpet anyway, so its not a problem getting to the pump if i need to. i drove it some tonight, seems to be working well. while i was out i stopped a few times, it started right up each time. also, now when i prime the pump by turning it to the on position a few times, it brings the fuel up. i'd like to save my money for now, but i can still get a pump if i need one. almost every parts store here in town has at least one in stock. hopefully, the pump will last a while more. and hopefully i wont have any problems starting it in the morning, school starts tomorrow. ah, like i'm ever early anyway. lol.

[AccordEpicenter]

wierd... it could be a funky connection but thats rare. Id pull the pump just to make sure the wiring and the sock are ok...

[HondaBoy]

ok this morning, friday, i tried starting the car. yesterday, i had to prime the pump for a few minutes, then it started. today, it wont bring any fuel up the line. i the plug once again if it was getting power, it is. plugged it back in, tried priming it again, and nothing. the car cranks over just fine, but no fuel in the line. the tank is filled also. right now i'm going to go see about getting a new pump. if that's not it, then i dont know. i'll update the status on this. hopefully, it'll be that its working correctly.

ok, i went and checked out my options for the fuel pump. i might as well spend the extra $10 or so and get the complete fuel pump replacement kit. it'll be about $95 with tax. unless i wanna go get it at the dealership. lol, yeah right! if that's not it, then i guess i'll have a new fuel pump. that should be it though, unless there's something i'm overlooking? fuel filters are fine, plug get's power, no fuel being pumped up through the fuel line. sounds like the fuel pump.

[A20A1]

It's about 0.7 - 0.8 psi more then our pump but I don't think that will cause any problems. Install it near the tank per it's instructions and run the fuel line from the tank to the rear filter then to the pump then to the hard line where the fuel line from the rear filter went to. this hard line leads to the firewall wich feeds the fuel line to the carb.
CARTER 4070 (180-P4070) SUPER STREET PUMP (http://www.jegs.com/cgi-bin/ncommerce3/ProductDisplay?prrfnbr=3210&prmenbr=361)

If you'd rather not risk installing it then just stick to the stock replacement.

you should also bypass the stock pump, I believe all it takes is a fuel line in place of the pump but you may need to do more, I'll look at my pump again to double check.

[A20A1]

Online the stock pump assembly usually runs $130.00


as for modifications to run the carter
I looked at the assembly again...
When you remove the pump replace it with a small segment of hard line and butt the hard line up against the hard line that the pump is hanging on to... cut the new hard line so it ends where the inlet for the pump would normally be (use a pipe cutter to cut the hard line, you may also want to get an flaring? tool to flare the ends of the pipe to help the rubber lines grip.). use the rubber fuel line to hold the two segments of hard line together. Center the fuel hard line in the middle of the loop that clamped around the outside of the pump, this ring is many times larger then the fuel line so while you keep the fuel line centered Crimp the metal ring and bend it slightly to hold the new hard line in it's place.

Do this mod only if you are using the Carter pump.

[A20A1]

Some things to note:

The extra fuel pressure MIGHT push the float needle off it's seat, you may be able to counter act the higher fuel level in the float chamber by adjusting the float screw ( Set the float level lower )... but it might not help.

Keep all the fuel lines away from heat or contacting other metal parts directly... the heat could cause the fuel to vaporize and you'll get vapor lock.

( Something I learned after it happned to me... when installing a new exhaust system or muffler, make sure you keep any heat sheilds and bolt the exhaust system so that it isn't too close to the fuel tank or you'll end up getting vapor lock as the tank reaches near half full or less... )

[Blkblurr]

Yep. FI uses the main relay and carbs have a fuel cutoff relay in the dash fuse panel. This shouldn't be the problem here because he has power at the pump.

It still could be the main relay. If the contacts that power the fuel pump are oxydized or burned, the voltage would drop until the pump eventually received no power.

[AccordEpicenter]

he gets power, and it seems to work, except pump no worky

[HondaBoy]

yeah, if it wasnt getting about the full 12 volts, that test light i use wont turn on. here's the update: ok, i went to O'reilly's and bought the new pump kit. it was like $83 with everything plus tax. it didnt take incredibly long to get the pump out. maybe a minute or so. one of the bolts wouldnt come off, good thing i had some needle nose vise grips. anyway, i took it off the mount and did the small amount of wiring required, and put it on the mount, makeing sure that the pump's inlet set at the same level as the stock one. after assembling it on there, i went to put it in. thought it was going to be as easy as getting it out. i dont know if there's some kind of baffles in the tank, but it kept hitting inside either way i tried putting it in. i didnt try forcing it in, i finally got it in though. after bolting it back on and hooking things up, i tried starting it. it almost imediately started up. i checked the front filter and its getting filled up now. so apparently it was the stupid old ass pump that whole time. lucky for me, the 3gee's pump is really rediculously easy to get to. now when its going i can hear it if i'm right over the maintanence hole. checked for leaks and everything, seems to be doing its job. the pump was a carter one if y'all were wondering. also i had the get a little strainer/filter thing that goes on the end, that was $6 by itself. it has a lifetime warrenty, so that's good. i hope nothing else F's up! i did notice that when my car was going, the alternator/water pump belt was squeeking, hopefully its just damp or something. its been kinda foggy-ish today and the airs damp. ok, well hopefully this is the end of my fuel pump worries! i'll keep that upgrade pump stuff in mind though.

[A20A1]

it's a carter in tank replacement pump?

[HondaBoy]

yeah, it's an intank replacement. on the box it came in, its says carter, also on the screen's box says carter. its a federal mogual brand i guess. also, stamped onto the pump is carter. it runs better now, seems to anyway. front filter is staying filled now, i kept checking. i think the pump is probley just a stock spec one, not really much higher flow than the old one originally was. hey, i noticed that the stock pump is made by mitsubishi. it has the little mitsubishi 3 point symbol on it. as for my belt, it isnt making any noise now, it was rather damp yesterday. after driving it around it quit. i think it was just slipping some until it was dry. oh, i bought that pump kit at O'reilly auto parts. dont know if Auto Zone carries the same one, that was the other place i had checked.

[AccordEpicenter]

i noticed that the stock pump is made by mitsubishi. it has the little mitsubishi 3 point symbol on it

thats probably why it failed... Mine was made by nippondenso