Help on weird Accord problem (lost)

[Chicane]

Okay, I'm a pretty knowledgeable car person, but this has me kinda baffled. My wife drives an 89 accord LX with the carb... and it's been really really great! It's not as powerful as my other car, but it's a lot better around town and it's been growning on me quite a bit! I love how 'fun' these little hondas are to drive!

Anyway, a few weeks ago, she was driving to work, and (her description) it started to 'die' on her. Sputtered, was running rough, and she had to put it in nuetral and give it some gas to keep it alive. It then died and she coasted into a parking lot. I had it towed to a shop, and they couldn't look at it for 4-5 days. When they did have time, it started right up for them and they couldn't get it to repeat the problem.

It's been fine since then... UP UNTIL tonight. She was driving it home from work, and it started to do the same thing. She got into a gas station, and I told her to fill it up... maybe it's just bad gas. My previous guess was vapor lock... with the goofy winter formulated gasoline on a warmer day... but honestly that doesn't make too much sense.

Anyone have any guesses? My last guess is that the vented gas cap is clogged.... and letting it sit for 4-5 days allowd the gas tank to equalize (it had time), and tonight, she opened the gas cap to fill it up....

Thanks for the replies!

- Chicane

[keruhas184]

Well, it could be a number of things: ignition, fuel delivery, or carb.

I would say check your plugs, distributor and wires for the ignition side. Take some carb cleaner to the carb, and see if any of the vacuum lines look cracked - replace any that are of suspect. If the problem starts again, and you have a chance to look at the car, take off the airbox cover and look in the carb barrel (with a mesh screen on it) to see if the choke flap is all the way open (it should be when the engine is fully warm); if it is half-way closed, than you may have a choke puller problem.

For the fuel, I'd say the best thing would be to replace your fuel filters -- the primary one is by the right wheel, and the secondary filter is under the hood, on the right side of the carb. You can find the filters in any auto store. It may be your fuel pump going out, but I'm not sure if you can test how well its working before it dies. You could also replace the gas cap: (http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/auto/jsp/mws/prddisplay.jsp?inputstate=5&catcgry1=Accord&catcgry2=1989&catcgry3=4DR+LX&catcgry4=KA5MT&catcgry5=FUEL+TANK) #s 18 & 19

It may seem like a lot of stuff to go through, and it is, but thats how it goes for intermittent problems... although I hope for you it turns out to be something minor, like clogged fuel filters...

[A20A1]

hmm, how long after she started the car did it start causing problems...

Also vacuum and choke related... check the coolant level since the choke puller is connected to the thermovalve at the back of the intake manifold... the vacuum advance is also connected to a thermovalve.

Another possible vacuum leak can be caused by a stuck PCV valve, so you may need to replace that.

Shops usually will delay working on a car so that they can get a full days wage or what not... if they worked too fast and finish all the cars then there is no garauntee that more customers will be in the next day and if they don't have customers the mechanics are sent home or not called in to work.

[Chicane]

Thanks for the guesses guys! As for the vacuum lines and fuel filters, I kinda doubt those just because it runs so great most of the time. I think a vacuum problem would pop up more often, and its getting perfectly normal fuel filters, so... anyway, the choke is something I haven't thought of. I'll check into it. Ditto on the PCV valve and coolant.

Graci so far!

[jaiden]

I know what's wrong. I just got in from the garage fixing the same problem. it was cold and wet last night, right? same thing last time?

My 89 carb had the exact same problem.

There is a heat riser pipe that goes up from the heat shield over the exhaust manifold which draws in hot air to mix with the cold air in the intake to prevent carb icing. Either your heat pipe, vac line or vac actuator is screwed up. Take off the big square air pipe, shine a light in and start the car. you should see the actuator lift the flapper, which will go back down after a few minutes. For mine, the valve got "tired" (my description) and the arm was too long. I verified this by taking it out, holding it in my hand, and allowing the car to operate it. re-bending the wire part about 1cm shorter fixed it.



Thanks for the guesses guys! As for the vacuum lines and fuel filters, I kinda doubt those just because it runs so great most of the time. I think a vacuum problem would pop up more often, and its getting perfectly normal fuel filters, so... anyway, the choke is something I haven't thought of. I'll check into it. Ditto on the PCV valve and coolant.

Graci so far!

[Chicane]

Hrm, sounds promising. So is this an actual part of the carb, or is it some goofy 'warm up the carb for better winter performance' tack on thing to the side of the carb? Can you elaborate a bit more for me? I appreciate your help so far.

[accordlxi2.0]

most of the carb heat riser does'nt work.
our car don't get vapor lock either.

the only time the heat riser opens up is when the car is cold.
it'll still run..but not as good when the door is down.

it seems your problems happen when the engine is warmed up.
i say check the float level.
my car was sputtering and everything i did'nt know what was wrong till i took off the air box and seen that the float was over flowing.

what the milege on the car???

[Chicane]

213,000 miles. The reason I don't suspect vacuum lines or float levels and stuff is because it runs great most of the time. It has to be something that happens once in a while. Tonight it was extremely rainy and wet and cold, yet it didn't stutter at all tonight....

[accordlxi2.0]

213,000...
yea i don't think the heat riser works.
what about your tach-o-meter..does it twiches anytime.

hmmm plus you said that it'll start to run rough, then once she tries to press the gas..it'll die out.
does it restart right away or does it take awhile??

[Chicane]

No no no... it runs fine, then it'll start to die, so she'll have to give it more gas to keep it alive. Then it'll sputter out. So far I'm really leaning towards the gas cap....

The tach seems to work fine as far as I can tell.

[jaiden]

Well, I make no promises... in fact, I haven't driven my car since I fixed the heat riser. I did a lot of research though, so I'm pretty sure that's what was wrong on my car. It's very easy to check, as I said. just pull of the square air hose and look inside toward the air filter. the flap is on the bottom and should open just after the car is started.

When I was giving it gas, it would get worse and worse and finally sputter to a stop. My theory is that the icing is on the choke plate, which throws off the mix (makes it run rich) so more gas doesn't help.

I've seen lots of info about carb icing online. Apparently it can happen well over freezing, as the gas expansion drops the temps dramatically.

anyway, if you do fix it, let me know in case my car dies again tomorrow on the way to work!



No no no... it runs fine, then it'll start to die, so she'll have to give it more gas to keep it alive. Then it'll sputter out. So far I'm really leaning towards the gas cap....

The tach seems to work fine as far as I can tell.

[jaiden]

Just to follow up, you can find this discussed in section 11-60 of the 1986 shop manual which you can find at that russian site. It specifically states that intake air is maintained at 100 degrees F, which is far over ambient in my area.


Well, I make no promises... in fact, I haven't driven my car since I fixed the heat riser. I did a lot of research though, so I'm pretty sure that's what was wrong on my car. It's very easy to check, as I said. just pull of the square air hose and look inside toward the air filter. the flap is on the bottom and should open just after the car is started.

When I was giving it gas, it would get worse and worse and finally sputter to a stop. My theory is that the icing is on the choke plate, which throws off the mix (makes it run rich) so more gas doesn't help.

I've seen lots of info about carb icing online. Apparently it can happen well over freezing, as the gas expansion drops the temps dramatically.

anyway, if you do fix it, let me know in case my car dies again tomorrow on the way to work!

[DanG86LX]

Kind of agree with Accordlxi2.0 , engine seem starved for gas. You (not wife) drive the car and check float bowl level when it happens. My bet is on fuel pump. It is intermittent before it dies. It happen to me too not long ago.
..Or instead of float level, install one of those transparent cheap fuel filters in the engine bay.

[Jareds 89 LX-i]

Fuel pump will cause a problem like what you're describing. Sometimes fuel pumps will go completely out and just flat out not work at all, but often times they will work fine until they start to get hot.... the ones I've seen took about 30-45 minutes of driving before they got hot and the engine would sputter and stall (ran perfectly up until this point). Sometimes they'd start right back up and run for a few more minutes, other times they would almost start or start and die right away. After letting it sit for awile, it would start right back up and run perfectly for another 30-45 minutes. Just something to check

[Chicane]

Thing is the fuel pump is fairly new... about 30-40k old, and it runs fine on long distance driving. Just a few days ago I drove it for..eh.. over 2 hours straight, no problem.

I'm going to get a new gas cap and see if it ever does it again.

[jaiden]

Today was foggy and misty, and my car ran fine. FYI, I had already done the fuel pump and the did second of two filters last night as well.



Thing is the fuel pump is fairly new... about 30-40k old, and it runs fine on long distance driving. Just a few days ago I drove it for..eh.. over 2 hours straight, no problem.

I'm going to get a new gas cap and see if it ever does it again.

[accordlxi2.0]

hmmm..when my fuel pump was out my car ( the 86) it would run as if there's hardly any gas..
then three days later it gave out compleatly...

[Blkblurr]

I would suspect the needle valve on the carb float is sticking occasionally. fuel pump sounds like it is fine. Have you checked to see if you have water in your tank? Have you pulled the fuel line off to see if it produces a steady stream of fuel? You could have a partial blockage of your fuel line that remains open most of the time but then gets blocked as the clog moves around.

[Michael Cote]

I'd say it's carb ice because the heats not getting to the carb as suggested by previous responses. You'll notice it will happen while climbing from lower levels to higher ground especially. Does with mine anyway. If you stop engine and let heat from engine melt carb-ice (few minutes) it will start and run fine until it happens again. Check vac lines to flapper and if OK change temperature valve in air breather.
Good luck

[Michael Cote]

Me again. Just to add that this happens mostly when 1 or 2 degrees c or 34-38 f on a wet, damp or rainny day especially climbing elevation over a mile or two. I'd say 95% that stove heat flapper. You can close it permanently but then when outside temperature starts to warm up you'll have a too hot air problem which will give you vapour lock. Suggest you fix it properly especially if your bride drives that car.

[Mr_SARS]

I had the same problem on my 87 Accord LX a few months back. As soon as my car would warm up, it would slowly splutter and die out like yours. I had replaced/inspected just about everything that I thought would break down.

-Spark plug wires
-Spark plugs
-Fuel Pump
-Fuel Filter
-Inspected the Carb, it was fine

Eventually, I had asked my mechanic about it and he recommended that I flush out my gas tank. :ugh: When I had seen what was in my gas tank, I could understand why not enough fuel was getting to the engine...it looked like someone filled up 1/4 of my tank full of sand :mad: In the end though, after flushing out the gas tank my Accord was fine.

Long story short, try flushing out your gas tank.

[Chicane]

Well, it was definitely the gas cap. Thanks for all the help everyone, I appreciate it! But if your honda is running fine and after about 1/2 tank is used starts acting really weird and dies, check your gas cap!

- Chicane

[Oldblueaccord]

Well, it was definitely the gas cap. Thanks for all the help everyone, I appreciate it! But if your honda is running fine and after about 1/2 tank is used starts acting really weird and dies, check your gas cap!

- Chicane


Kool glad it worked out.

My buddy has an old ford with an edelbrock junk carb on it it took me forever to figure out his cap wasnt vented and his carb was starving for gas.


wp

[accordlxi2.0]

hmmm come to think..my car does'nt do that hissing sound anymore when you open the cap.