Help with exhaust please!

[2drSE-i]

Alright, heres the deal.

My exhaust is rusting through.....everywhere

I decided i probably shoudn't even try to do it myself, especially since i want it completely redone and welded assembly, but ive decided on the basics

I want 2.25" mandrel bent piping from the mainfold back (i might ask and see if they can make me a header, but i dont wanna shell out the $$$ for DC and i have heard that paceshitter is.....well), a gutted cat (Oklahoma has no inspections anymore :) ) and a fireball style muffler (im a teenager, what can i say) but i am lost as to what else is necessary. I dont want a weedeater sound. This would be my very first performance mod.
I tried searching, but exhaust is kind of a wide search perameter.

Cold air intake would be soon after, just help me out please!

I dont wanna sound like a retard when i walk into the muffler shop :)

[AccordNut]

yeah just go with custom 2.25 aluminum piping or something and you can pretty much put any muffler you want on there, just hope it sounds ok. I personally think the DC header is worth it, but its up to you. Expect to pay anywhere from 150-300 for the whole deal. nice to see you add something to that 3g! just be smart about it, do your homework

[smufguy]

mandrel bent???? if its like 150 bux then yeah, but a regular press bend is good enough. and get a pacesetter, its not that bad. Other than the paint, its pretty much the same aftermarket header. If you wanna use the full advantage of the exhaust, then u need to have a header to go along with your cat back. And dont gut out the cat, just ask them to have a pipe made from the header flange back to ur muffer with no cat Also u can try and get a resonator installed if you want, it gives a nice deep tone. and also, you can try to get the dynomax or magnaflow mufflers if ur interested. Borla makes pretty nice mufflers too.

PS: Fireball is too cheap looking, a lil restrictive since the inside diameter of the muffler is not 2.25".

[2drSE-i]

Press bend is the same?
and good idea with no cat, not much point if i wont get busted for it.
Will resonators decrease the power at all? cuz if not i will go ahead an slap one on there haha. Basically i just want a straight thru muffler, with a, and i know youll all love this, a sort of coffee can muffler. Keep giving me good info :)

I've heard that pacesetter headers rattle around on our cars, or is that just from poor installation?

Either way, cost is all that matters so if they can make a header less expensively than i can buy a pacesetter, then ill do that.

[smufguy]

pacesetters are not that badd and all u gotta do is hack off the ball joint and get a flex joint welded on there at the exhaust shop. Resonators dont reduce hp. and please dont get a fireball, magnaflow makes straight thru universal mufflers that a lot of turbo guys use, get that, its a straight thru with no reduction, as in 2:25" inlet will be the same diameter running inside the muffler too.

Press bend is between factory crinkle bend and high quality mandrel bent. Unless ur pushing a lot of power, mandrel bent is not required. All aftermarket exhausts are mandrel bent cause those manufacturers have the facility to do so and shops charge u more for it. Also, if u can find a good shop for getting an exhaust done, u might find it cheaper. I was qoted for $450 for mandrel bend for a catback from the same shop as compared to $225 for a press bend. And press bend has a different inner radius unlike the mandrel bend, but power loss for a close to stock NA is virtually null.

[shepherd79]

i had my pacesetter for over 2 years not. all i had to do is strip the paint and paint it. they don't rattle if you install them right way and tighten all the bolts properly.

about gutted cat, well i think you be better off with straight pipe instead of gutten cat. it will flow better, trust me on that one, i tried them both.

as for the muffler, since you don't want to sound like weedwaker, you should get borla muffler if you have money or flowmaster or dynomax muffler. as long as you have 2.25 piping you will be fine.

when you go to the muffler shop, tell them you want 2.25" mandrel bend cat back system made with your muffler.

[2drSE-i]

alright sounds good
yea i know the fireballs suck, i just want fireball style, straight thru with a 4" coffee can tip, which i know how most of you guys feel about that...but like i said im a teenager.

What exactly is a cat back system anyway?

[Roach412]

it means "catalytic" back. hence, Cat-back.

the front, header-leadpipe-catalytic, will be stock(left the same) but anything behind that will be replaced.

-Roach

[2drSE-i]

ah see i dont want catback i want manifold back

[smufguy]

ah see i dont want catback i want manifold back

its the same, only difference is u got a cat in bwt the exhaust pipe and the exhaust manifold.

[A20A1]

If you don't want the weedeater sound you need a resonator, just running a muffler at the end of the exhaust usually isn't enough... and straight thru mufflers will not get rid of the weedeater sound. So if you want a straight thru muffler then you need the resonator.
The resonator will not drop your hp that much... what can drop your hp is too big of an exhaust diameter... or too many bends in the exhaust.

Resonators are straight thru.

We have a stock resonator after the cat

As for the length of the aftermarket resonator... you can measure the length of our stock resonator and get the same lentgh or get one that is longer.

[A20A1]

Die, press (pressure), and crimp bent pipes usually mean the same thing

Mandrel is like the others but it uses balls inside the tube to keep it from deforming.

There is also the cheap auto store exhaust bends that have crinkles in it or ridges on the inside edge of the curve.

[A20A1]

One other thing I'mm not sure if it was mentioned...

Some exhaust shops will reuse STOCK FLANGES the stock flange will usually be smaller then 2.25" ID ( Inner diameter ) This mean when you get your 2.25" header you end up with a restriction right where your header back exhaust bolts to the header since it's using the stock flange.

If they don't use a flange then there is no easy way to install a pacesetter or other header later down the road witout first cutting the exhaust from the stock one.

If you were to get the header first and buy a 2.25" flange or have then widen the stock one if it's possible then it will make things easier mating the header back exhaust.

Header back is usually the same as cat back but it doesn't use a cat.

[2drSE-i]

So i basically need to ask for either a new flange thats 2.25" or have them widen the stock one?
and
Too big of an exhaust diameter, will i expect a gain from a 2.25" exhaust or a drop, since this would be the first performance mod on my car.

-Adam

[smufguy]

So i basically need to ask for either a new flange thats 2.25" or have them widen the stock one?
and
Too big of an exhaust diameter, will i expect a gain from a 2.25" exhaust or a drop, since this would be the first performance mod on my car.

-Adam

Hey adam, if you looked or searched this forum you would have found your answer. But either way....... 2.25" is the max and best result for a full exhaust system. If anything over like a 2.5" would not be good. Some run 2" exhausts, but for the exhaust gas velocity to be at max, we were told to run 2.25" exhaust. You dont have to ask for a flange, they will put one on their own. Its part of the installation process.

[A20A1]

Well exhaust velocity is what makes power and smaller diameter exhaust pipes make better velocity then larger ones...
But on the other side resctrictions means more pumping work for the motor... Smaller diameter pipes create more restriction thus more Pumping work so you lose power that way.

On a fairly stock car running at low rpms you're not flowing that much exhaust since most people don't push there cars to the upper rpm range that often or not for extended periods. So it helps to have the smaller diameter to get better exhaust velocity at lower rpms. It adds torque and thats good for hauling around people and groceries.

Once you raise the rpms there is a much greater need to get out more gasses so it helps to increase the diameter about a 0.50"... for us that is 1.75" to 2.25"
Most companies exhaust systems for 4cylinder or small displacement engines fall in the range of 2.25" you'll only find a larger diameter when the application is for a larger displacement motor or a higher reving motor... all of which will require less restrictions because of the added exhaust output.


Anyways to answere your question directly... you'll have less restriction and less velocity. Thats what you'll get.

Some people mention less back pressure but actually what they should say is less restriction.



http://www.3geez.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3973

This is a new cat and cat back made with mandrel bends purchased from a supplier... the cat I assume he bought has right the size flange for his setup.
You could buy a cat as well with a 2.25" flange on one end and no flange on the other end. If not just buy a flange or make sure the shop uses the right exhaust diameter... it's a 3 bolt flange if i remember correctly.

http://www.3geez.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3974

Here is a comparison between 2.50" and the stock exhaust diameter.
Less restriction, less exhaust velocity.

Please note that while a smaller diameter is more restrictive and gives more velocity... that there are other forms of restrictions that do not equal more veloctiy... they simply distrupt or block the flow of the exhaust.

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[HondaBoy]

all i gotta say is get glass pack mufflers. that's what i got and it sounds great. not too loud how i have mine. if i were to get a shorter one up front then it might sound louder. those were cheap and sound much better than any "fart can" anyone else has. the exhaust tone is that of a V6, people always ask if i've got a V6. kinda stupid on their part i suppose. anyway, here's the link to the thread on my exhaust. maybe you dont want the dual pipes though. even then, i suppose if you are to get a fart can, you can put a glass pack up where the stock resonator went. then it would probley sound something like mine. dont know if you really want a loud exhaust, i didnt that's why i have 2 glass packs.
http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=37724&highlight=exhaust

[2drSE-i]

Alright thx guys, i did try searching, but exhaust is kind of a huge search perameter, but this is what i have so far:

2.25" piping from the manifold/header back, no cat, resonator, and straight through muffler with 2.25 all the way through. I need to make sure that if i leave the manifold on instead of a header it leaves for easy install of a header.
Thanks for all the help!

-Adam

[HondaBoy]

please, for the love of 3geez, take some pix under the car when you get your exhaust done! take some especially if you get a chance when its on a lift or from a pit. it's always nice to see how each exhaust looks. good luck with it.

[89cordlx]

I've been told if you get crush bent piping to go with 2.5in and if you get mandrel go 2.25

[shepherd79]

well, if you are going from manifold back you will be waisting your money. when you install the header, you have to remove the pipe that will connect from header to cat/straight pipe. it will have to be replaces with the one that comes with header.
that is why i said that is better to get cat-back system rather than manifold-back system.

[A20A1]

I was under the impression he knew not to go from the cast manifold back ( especially sice EFI has the 4-2-1 design )... I mean without the lower pipe he would have no secondaries and no flex joint.
I'm pretty sure I made it clear to build the exhaust from the pipe after you remove the cat... if not I will add some more info to bre sure.

The pipe shown is a down pipe from a carbed motor... the painted one is from a DC header (DC header has the nice flex joint)...
This is the pipe that runs from the manifold to the catlytic convertor...
do not remove or alter this pipe since it is a part of the header / manifold.

You custom manifold / header back exhaust will bolt where the cat bolts to this pipe.

http://www.3geez.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3979
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[A20A1]

I've been told if you get crush bent piping to go with 2.5in and if you get mandrel go 2.25

Depends on how many bends you have, and what degree the bend is... if you already have 2.5" don't worry too much about it... you stil have a nice exhaust, just one that has less restriction.

[2drSE-i]

Ok, sorry for my stupidity haha
so until im ready for a header, i need to just get cat back, but when i do get my header, the header comes with pipes that bolt right up to the cat?

-Adam

[A20A1]

Nah, the cat bolts to that pipe picture I posted... so when you remove the cat and the pipe behind it you make the exhaust from what is left... what shepherd was saying was if you removed that pipe in the picture I posted then you'd need to remove it when you buy an aftermarket header cause that pipe is a part of the header.

[2drSE-i]

So i guess it would be alot easier if i just told them to gut the cat and weld the catback system to the rear of the cat, and leave the rest and when im ready, just bolt the header pipes to the cat?
Either that, or have them make a bolt bracket instead of the cat?
which way would be easier?

::edit::
and for all u guys who want me to do more!!!
im gonna get some new plug wires!

haha

[modu03]

uh, one thing no one seems to have mentioned is that dc sports no longer makes headers for our car... pacesetter is the only one available unless you have one custom made.

i had pacesetter headers in my car for 2 1/2 years without any signs of rust or corrosion(then the car was stolen), of course i did buy the ceramic coated version. it costs more than the painted version, but it won't rust out and won't have to be repainted.

as far as quality goes, i really don't see a difference between pacesetter and dc sports, except that dc came with a flex joint instead of that ball joint on the pacesetter

so, if you want headers, buy pacesetter

[2drSE-i]

Well, i assumed everyone knew DC didnt make one anymore, i meant buying one off ebay, which you would pay ALOT for, but this is what ive heard about pacesetter:

They come with pathetic gaskets, which isnt a big deal, but the ball joint sucks, which is... whatever u guys think, id rather have one custom made.