Brakes Take a Crap

[HondaBoy]

well, i'd noticed a few weeks ago the fluid leven in the master cylinder res was low, so i put some in. when i took my wheels off i checked the pads and they were worn down. also, they were squeeling, only in reverse though. not much going foward. so now they had started squeeking like i need to replace the pads. so i bought some new pads. i looked the a the old pads and they were getting down to the rivit thing that holds the pad material on, so i dont want to let it get down that low because it'll tear the rotor up. along with doing that, i felt the fluid lines. they were kinda hard, sorta cracked. i mean after 18 years that's to be expected. but when i got the the lowest part of the line that connects onto the caliper, it was swollen. i know thats not supposed to be like that, so i'm like shit. i dont want to drive it if its like that, i'm surprised i didnt loose the brakes all this time! anyway, i proceded to put the pads on. i got to the right side and i felt the line on that side, less swollen, but it still was. o nthe right side there, after swinging the caliper out of the way, i noticed there was fluid on the line. so that ones seeping fluid. i also noticed fluid comming out of under the new pad on the side that the piston is. well, the piston's boot is torn and leaking. i said screw it. i put the pads on, checked the fluid and parked that bitch. so i know what i can do already. first of all i will replace the F'd brake line/hoses. i already bought the left side. i'll buy the right side tomorrow probley. also, instead of rebuilding the caliper myself i can just buy a newly rebuilt one for about $30. although, the rebuild kit is something like $5, so i'll think about that one. my brake cylinders in the rear drums are like 3 years old so i dont need to replace those, but i do want to also replace the lines on the back brakes. they arent as F'd up as the front ones though, not all swollen and ready to bust. this is just another one of those things that i guess was to be expected sooner or later. hopefully i can get this done within the week. maybe that's wishful thinking. dont know how long it would be to rebuild the calipers if i do decide on that. i dont think it'd take too long. i have an air compressor to push the piston out. i just dont even want to think of what i'd be paying if i had a shop do this. i think it was actually a good thing the pads were giving out at this time. otherwise i'd have kept driving with those totally screwed fluid lines. anyone elses brake take a shit?

[smufguy]

well mine seized up couple of years ago. i just bought a rebuilt caliper and got it done. With the core return it cost me only $20 so it was not bad. The reason i dont like to rebuild my own caliper is that, it would mean i have to park my car for a day or so and i dont have that kinda free time. besides, its a much cleaner and easier job to just but a fully cleaned and rust free rebuilt one and put it on and save a lot of time. and my lines are pretty good condition since i dont let salt sit on them too long and just wash the wheel wells whenever i wash it by hand at the self cleaning car wash. and i have learnt it the hard way to spend some extra money even if i dont have much, to get some good quality pads and rotors to help save me and my pocket in the long run.

[HondaBoy]

well i thought about the mess i'd have to deal with rebuilding the calipers. and i dont really have time for that either. i bought newly rebuilt ones along with the 2 hose assemblies. thats a chunk of change right there, but i guess it'll be worth it since all the parts have a warrenty. i'll get back $35 for each caliper when i take them the old ones. hopefully this isnt too much of a bitch to get done. i do want to kind of flush the lines out with new fluid. maybe with the new calipers and lines the pads wont wear out so quickly. i dont think they were retracting any when i'd take my foot off the brake. i noticed they'd stick sometimes too. i'm thinking maybe i can paint the calipers now while they're off the car. maybe i'll just wait on that. i dunno. they have new paint on them already, but its grey so its not that noticeable.

[smufguy]

as long as they are properly lubed and taken care of and inspected, it should not be any problem. I have made it my own to check these things and lube them every three oil changes. Which i do in every 5 months. but it keeps my mind worry free. This is only because these are old parts working on an old car with conditions unkown due to being a second or third hand in ownership. BUt hopefully things will be different soon.

[HondaBoy]

i decided to wait till tomorrow or saturday to start working on the brakes. i wouldnt have had any time to get much completed tonight, so i said screw that. anyway, i think i might get the rotors tomorrow. just stock type replacements. i dont know if i should wait and get some nicer ones in a few months or something, or just get the stock ones. they're $15 each, so its not like i'm spending that much. now i just need to find someone that'll help me out when i'm bleeding my brakes. that shouldnt be too hard. i still need to also buy some brake fluid and possibley some silicone grease stuff. does the pin that the caliper moves on need to be lubed? if so would that need to be silicon grease or something else? i might go ahead and bleed out the back brakes too, in the order they are supposed to be done though. ah, i have the garage to keep the car in if i dont finish, so i'm not too worried. i plan to get the rear brake hoses also, later on though. hopefully, this will be the last of my brake problems.

[smufguy]

for greasing, you can use high temp moly, but i use hi temp synthetic Mobil1 grease. Its a lil expensive, $8 for a tube, but it works. Never binds up and is always lubed.

You need to lube the top and bottom pins and the reverse side of the pads (over the shim) and also the guids on the top and bottom.

I use the same $15 zinc coated Autozone rotors, Since i use the Ceramic pads from them, they work anytime of the day. Dry, wet, cold and hot, it grabs like a mofo. I tried to lock up my tires, but its soo even that its a lil too hard to lock up the tires, and it just stops sooo damn quick, trust me when i say you can stop as fast as a corvette in 34rd gear doing about 60mph, cause it happened to me once, and man these things just stopped.

[HondaBoy]

i bought this stuff i've seen before called caliper grease. its synthetic, also cheaper than the mobil kind. anyway, it was all i could find right now. i also picked up the brake fluid, cleaner, and new rotors. i already have the bolts to help get the old rotors off, dont remember what mm size they are, is it 8mm? anyway i have them ready. i'll probley start on it when i get home again in a few hours. its supposed to rain tomorrow so i dont want to start this outside. i still have a good mechanic to fall back on if need be. putting the parts on isnt what i'm worried about. the thing i worry about is making sure the lines dont have bubbles in them.

[HondaBoy]

ok, now since i have all the parts needed, i feel ready to go. but i dont have an assistant at the moment. when the brake hose is taken off, what would be good to stop up the line? its the metal line. i'm thinking maybe some tape or something? just until i can get the new part on. also, anyone have some tips on how to introduce some nice new fluid into the lines? i'm sure the shit that's in there is bad. i'd rather not have that in my new lines and calipers. for now, until i can get some tips, i guess i'll take the calipers off the mounts and have them hang there so i can put the new rotors on. i guess i can use a coat hanger to hang them. i do have a repair manual that gives some good instructions, but i dont see anything about getting old fluid out of the lines. i bought three 32 OZ. bottles of brake fluid. so i dont think i'll run out.

[AZmike]

When I change brake lines I try to have everything I'll need at-hand and just switch everything over without any plugs as quickly as I can. A little spills, but you'll be bleeding the lines any way so it doesn't really matter. 3 bottles of fluid is probably way more than you'll need. I bet you'll do fine with part of the first bottle. Introduce the new fluid through the master cylinder. Bleed all four corners if you haven't recently. I forget the corner sequence for the bleed, but it should be around the board somewhere.

[smufguy]

you will need two 12mm bolts (standard) to screw onto the release holes and tighten them down to release the rotors off the hub after u removed the two phillips heads. What i did was get a ratched, hook up a sockect that fits my bit (1/4 i guess) and just loosened it. My bit was thick enoudh that it did not round off, so use a thicker phillips head than a thinner or sharper one.

all i did was that get two big ass bottles of brake fluid (Prestone from walmart) and while my buddy was pumping it, i hooked up a clear hose to the bleed valve and asked him to pump it, so everytime he pumped it i drained the front two simultaneously, while keeping my eye onf the fluid level. Once it was done, i went to do the same in the back. it takes a lil time and some fuild, but with help, u should be clearly done in about 15minutes. BUt trust me, within 3000miles those darn things getall fucking dark again. :(.

[HondaBoy]

well, because of having to do returns and some other BS, i've only got as far as the left side. the rotor came off easily without the need of the 2 bolts to push it off. the rotor i was going to put on had a damn pit in it! a deep one, i returned it and got a new one. didnt realize how much time driving around town takes. anyway, i'm to the point where i'll put the new line and caliper on the left side. i'll have to wait till around 6:30 for my friend to come and help me though, its about 4:15 now, so i'll go and work on getting things hooked up so i can just bleed them quickly. i suppose i should just bleed the rear brakes anyway, better to do it now than later.

oh yeah, why is it in all the instructions i've found in books and stuff, they say to submerge the line you connect to the bleed valve in fresh brake fluid? anyway, i have some clear tubing i can use. also i have a catch pan under the brake i'm woking on. so i wont have too much of a mess to clean up. i have plenty of kitty litter if i need it also.

[HondaBoy]

well, now i'm done. i took my sweet time. that way i know everything is good to go. so i guess that's not bad. actually i still need to bleed the brakes. i dont know why my friend doesnt have time to help me do that, but yeah, thats why i didnt do it yet. for the most part, the fluid that came out of the lines was pretty clean looking. its wierd not see rusty ass rotors anymore. but i guess i should give them time to rust up. the pads i had got had shims with them. i put them on with the shims, dont know if i really needed to. guess they will help quiet them, the last few times the pads didnt come with shims and would squeak after they wore down some. i hope the new rotors will be the end to the shaking when i'd brake sometimes. i'm pretty sure the right side rotor was worped. so anyway, when bleeding the front brakes, should i have the hand brake off? i'd think so for the rear brakes anyway. wonder how much this would have cost to get it done at a shop. i'm sure it would have cost over $500. in parts, it's cost me about $150, that's with the core deposits returned. overall, this was pretty easy.

[bl9366]

My right front caliper took a shit about 1 yr ago. The bottom caliper slide seized and was rusted so bad that it can't be freed. As a result the inner brake pad was almost worn down to the rivets prematurely when all pads were still good to go for many years. Went and returned the core for a reman caliper and ended up replacing all pads so it was pretty f@#$ed up cost wise.

Glad that you fixed your brake problems man sounds like a potentially dangerous situation.

[smufguy]

Belive me, if you are doing the rearrs for the first time, it will take some time. THe drum brakes are a pain in the ass to chance, the shoes atleast. Yeah u dont have to have the parking brake on, but i would suggest, have the car in reverse, parking brake down and jack one up side and the put a block of cinderblock, wood or better yet wheel locks in the front before you do this, also choose a flat ground.

Im glad you got ur stuff done dude. Its weird that u gotta pump that shit right?


note: the rear. BEfore you put the new drums on, u gotta adjust the adjuster using a flat head, so that you can eliminate a billion pushes of the brake pedal.

[HondaBoy]

yeah, i had looked at doing my rear brakes before. i had just taken the drum off, but ended up putting it back on because i didnt wanna mess with it. i'm going to see what this mechanic i know will charge me to do those along with replacing the wheel bearings in the rear. other than bleeding the brakes, i wasnt going to really touch the rear drums. since i havent opened up the rear lines, do i really need to bleed the drums? also, i noticed how abrasive brake fluid really is. some got on the undercoating in the fender well and ate the coating off. i'd hate to see what it'd do to the paint. i dunno, since i have been able to do most of the other stuff on the car, i dont see why i wouldnt be able to do the rear brakes as well. other than haveing to take some time. i'd have to do it on another weekend, not during the week since i have school during the week.

[smufguy]

worst fluid is the brake fluid man, it will eat paint. tust me, thats how i took off the overspray from my valve cover, used some brake fluid and cleaned it off. It will eat right thru your clearcoat and is a nasty one. You dont really have to bleed them, i mean you changed your wheel cylinders not too long back (like 3 years back right?) so its not needed. but if you want, you can do it too. but me personally wont.

[HondaBoy]

man, i dont know if i can get anyone to get off their lazy ass and help me over here. is there any way that i can bleed the brakes by myself? i've never heard of it being a one man job, but that would be nice.

hey, nobody ever said why it is that bleeding instructions say to submerge the hose you'd connnect to the bleed screw into clean fluid. why is that? and is it neccesary?

[smufguy]

there are one man brake bleeding kits available at pepboys, strauts or autozone. SO check into that, and about that immersion thing, Its to prevent air from going back into the system which u dont want, so do it.

[Mac]

Yeah, them one man brake bleeders are great. I got one off e bay a while ago. Once you have it all hooked up, all you do is open the bleed valves one at a time. It fills the master cylinder as it bleeds. Good way to flush also. Besides e bay and auto stores there is a website that sells them also http://trackhaus.com/

[HondaBoy]

well, got my friend over here and we got it done. it really didnt take too long to get it all done. less than a half hour with puting the wheels back on and cleaning up. i thought at first they werent done right or something because they didnt stop hard. but i guess that's how its supposed to be with new rotors and pads. i drove it in the neighborhood a bit and it started getting better. they still need to be worn in a little more. another thing they feel like they'll grip with less effort, still kind of a long pedal. i'm sure thats from the rear brakes needing to be replaced. anyway, it went pretty well and now i can drive the 3gee again. i've been driving the '02 accord for the time the 3gee was down. i kinda got used to the harder pedal feel on it. i'll keep an eye on my brake fluid too, never know what could happen. i torqued everything down to what it was supposed to be and looked for drips on the floor, there was none so thats a good sign.

[HondaBoy]

my problem with the shaking on the freeway and hard vibrations uppon hard braking is gone! as long as i've ever drove this car, its never had smoothness on hard braking. i think also bleeding all the brakes was good because the rear brakes seem to be grabbing better. now i dont lock the brakes up all the time. its stopping much better and is doing great. does anyone know if adjusting the rear brakes will help the long pedal to go away?

[smufguy]

long pedal as in spongy? if thats the case, then it means u got air. U did not let the fluid go too low on the master cyl did u? u can try adjusting the rear brakes if u want, but since the front does pretty much all the breaking, i doubt it will make a huge difference.

[Oldblueaccord]

my problem with the shaking on the freeway and hard vibrations uppon hard braking is gone! as long as i've ever drove this car, its never had smoothness on hard braking. i think also bleeding all the brakes was good because the rear brakes seem to be grabbing better. now i dont lock the brakes up all the time. its stopping much better and is doing great. does anyone know if adjusting the rear brakes will help the long pedal to go away?


Yeah i adjust mine every 3 months. Rear drums is your pedal "feel" or travel. Since the front pads are right on the rotor where as drum barkes the shoes can travel quite a bit. It will also help your emergency brake hold which I;d imagine yours aint.

wp

[HondaBoy]

i dunno, we bled the hell outta all 4 corners. although it wont be hard to do that again. my friend said if i wanted to he would help me out with that again. anyway, last night was the first time i really got to use my brakes hard. they feel really nice, other than a longish pedal. i think the braking is now more spread out. before it was just on the front brakes making panic stops scarry because they would easily lock up, now all the brakes seem to grab. also, the front brakes arent sticking at all. overall, it was totally worth redoing them.