B-Series swap begins!

[racetek82]

And so the mayhem begins folks...I started working on the mounts last week,...and did a little bit of wiring here and there. I'm using a few Hasport parts for reference, but the rest is from scratch. The motor is a B16A2 from a 99-00 Civic Si, the tranny is a hydro model from a 95 DelSol. I'll be running a hydro-cable kit, OBD1 wiring and ecu. I'm considering producing this kit when it's all done, granted that a good amount of people want it. The prototypes will be made from steel, but I may have the final products CNC machined from billet aluminum. More info as work progresses....

http://www.racetekengineering.com/b16swap/driver_mount1.jpg

http://www.racetekengineering.com/b16swap/rear_mount1.jpg

http://www.racetekengineering.com/b16swap/rear_mount2.jpg

http://www.racetekengineering.com/b16swap/old_a20.jpg

http://www.racetekengineering.com/b16swap/a20_b16.jpg

http://www.racetekengineering.com/b16swap/b161.jpg

http://www.racetekengineering.com/b16swap/b162.jpg

[NXRacer]

holy big freaking picures batman!! :D

good luck on the swap! Show us pictures of your mounts if you get a chance. I wouldnt plan on making too many mount kits. Around here, a lot of people talk, but when push comes to shove, they all fall through.

[shepherd79]

GOOD LUCK BRO.
yeah like Caleb said, don't make too many kits, plus it would be better if they are made out of Steel instead of CNC aluminum.

[Busted_Blue]

Good luck. I see you are from the bay area too. hooray for someone with money!

[hondamanlxi]

The majority of peeps cant afford the kit....not the motor! Make it resonable and your set;)

[BlueBead]

NICE! finally we can stop hearing about how there are no mounts for the Bseries!

[carotman]

Looks nice so far!! Good luck with the welding.

can't wait to see when it's done.

[Hash_man_Se_i]

Looks good, I can't wait to see more progress... Props for undertaking such a thing.

[88accordhb]

holy crap! youre from alemeda? can i come up to the shop and see it when your done? cool thanx...and also lookin awesome ray. something about that last name tells me your chinese. could be teh fo or the ng. but man good luck with that swap...i'm very arroused!

again caleb is a wise one...don't make too many kits. most of the people on the forum drive the 3g cuz were all broke (or it's a daily driver or something)...you think broke people would have money for an si swap like that? hehe

[Lok]

FANTASTIC........KEEP UP the GOOD WORK.
If the kit will be in reasonable price, I agree everyone will buy .

[Ace]

Nice work yea i can wait to see the price

[thegreatdane]

Good project!
Why dont you get a cable tranny instead?

[racetek82]

You can't beat a free motor/tranny kit =) The work on this swap is being done in SF....at my workplace....I'll begin making the brackets for the motor mounts this weekend. Hopefully I can get some wiring work done also.

Question for anyone with the Place Racing kit, including wiring. What route was taken for the Speedometer? Was the stock speedo cable used? And was their wiring harness just a engine harness swap, or a complete rewire? thanks guys!



Good project!
Why dont you get a cable tranny instead?

[SteveDX89]

I used the stock cable. The A20 speed sensor will fit in the B series tranny.

[smufguy]

B16A2, which car is it out of? NIce work man. Looks like a lot of work ur doing. What kinda brackets are those? home made ones or just "made to fit" brackets. Either way, i cant wait to see when the whole thing is done. I think $500 for a kit would sell faster than you can make them. Its an amazing job ur undertaking, and if u can come thru with it, u will be having many customers waiting in line for it.

Also, what kinda material is the mount? urathane or rubber?

[great86er]

Race you are a godsend.
As soon as you get the final product finished up I will be first in line with cash in hand!! :rockon:

[RobT5580]

The PRI harness was just a sub harness that was wire loomed and you just ran it throught the firewall to the ECU. The wiring shouldnt be that bad i just did a OBD-1 conversion on my car not to long ago and im working on getting a B18 intake manifold/TB.

[ICEMAN707]

actually, there's a handful of us here who have the cash for a swap. there is some demand, just the supply sucks for these cars so the demand got low. that's business. broke people shouldn't be hooking up cars anyways. lol. there's enough ghetto ricer cars out there to make the import tuner scene look bad.

so, back to the topic. i can't wait to see those mounts in that shiny billet aluminum. i've always liked those hasport style mounts. a nice and light billet aluminum shift linkage and shortshifter kit would be nice too. not to mention strut and sway bars. the list goes on. anyways, i first considered the b20b/z swap for my car but that plan fell through when PRI stopped making the mounts, so i decided looking into the b20a. but you've shed new light to most of us here again cus frankly i prefer the newer b20b/z simply because it's the newer generation b-series and has tons of aftermarket support. so keep going on the project and you are bound to have alot of customers in no time. plus it would put the 3gee on the map as a popular car to tune.

being that it's not a popular car in aftermarket support right now cus of its age, it's a good platform to monopolize on profits. and to jump on the bandwagon, i'm also planning on making copies of my bodykit sometime soon, while getting my car into shows/mags/sponsorships and make some big cash for tools, supplies, and workspace. so best of luck to you man.

it's nice to have someone in here work on the "real" performance potential aspect of the 3gee and not all these bullshit upgrades to make a weak 120 hp a20 catch up to a damn civic. :lol: ....hmmm although a K-series swap would be sooooo tempting seeing as you have the means to make custom wiring and mounts, i wouldn't doubt that'll be your next project as soon as this thing kicks off. imagine a k20 or k24 powered 3gee. mmmmm. but the b-series swap is a great start and should attract lots of business. only a few can afford a K-series swap right now even for the 90-99 civics because the K-series engines are expensive to buy. just keep a tight schedule and focus on your project as not to upset the demand of customers. good communication between you and your customers is key. not sticking to those obligatory standards is a quick way to lose business as some of the previous business vendors here experienced. ok that's all i gotta say, gotta breathe. lol.

[b20a86lude]

damn looks nice cant wait to see it done
dang iceman u worte a freakin book

[Legend_master]

Hey great job on the mounts, I am in the process of doing a b-series swap in a 3gee. All I have is the mounts and I am Suppose to have a shift linkage , but I think I am getting dicked on that one. I have a contact that I will post up when I get home about the sub wireing harness. I actually found someone that will make any subharness conversion for any car and motor at $150.00 a harness, but as for the engine harness you will have to splice a b-series into it. Now for the questions, what are you useing for your shift linkage? What axles do you plan on useing, and how well does the clutch conversion kit work? Thanks for any info.

[88Accord-DX]

Swap looks good.

[ICEMAN707]

so any updates yet? if i had a b-series motor i could mock up the mounting plates myself of cardboard and then cut it out of heavy guage billet aluminum at a machine shop and have them weld it all together for me. but it's a risk if i dont have the motor. i wish i had a free motor like you. i hope you do make those mounts. saves me the trouble of having to make one myself. post updates on the progress.

[racetek82]

Fabbed up part of the chassis brackets last weekend, hoping to fiinish up the mounts this weekend. Worked on the wire harness this week, about 50% done. Just waiting to see if TCI can get me some axles made =)

[great86er]

Any progress so far?

[88tandx]

o my fucking god. please make this kit available to other people. i was saving up for the placeracing kit but then those fukrs went out of business or something and now my accord is fucked up and im gunna buy another one and i wanna out a b series in it. do this and i will be the first to buy it!!!

[racetek82]

Been a bit busy, finally got around to finishing the mounts. I don't know if I can offer the tranny mount bracket, as I had to weld mine in to form to the chassis shape. The PRI bolt in style is just too weak. I'll make a jig of my rear and driver mounts before I mount everything up for good. Here's a few photos for now =)

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wODY1MTM1NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wODY1MTM4NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wODY1MTM2NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wODY1MTM3NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wODY1MTM5NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

[ICEMAN707]

awesome job. looks vewwy delishuzzzzzzzzzz!!!! finish it up and make some nice production models of those mounts!!

[SteveDX89]

Looks good. The PRI bolt in bracket is pretty weak but I bolted it on and also welded it. Welds look like shit but hey, it works. :sad2: Anyway, my bracket on the driver side looks different. It doesn't set back close to the firewall as far. I'll have to take a pic later today when my girl brings my camera back. If you make production versions of these, the 2 different brackets could pose a problem.

[smufguy]

IT looks cool man. good job

ps: ever thought of making some urathane mounts for the Stock A20? few might be interested.

[racetek82]

Looks good. The PRI bolt in bracket is pretty weak but I bolted it on and also welded it. Welds look like shit but hey, it works. :sad2: Anyway, my bracket on the driver side looks different. It doesn't set back close to the firewall as far. I'll have to take a pic later today when my girl brings my camera back. If you make production versions of these, the 2 different brackets could pose a problem.

The PRI kit uses the old 2 bolt style driver mount; I used the newer 3 bolt GSR mount, which sits back toward the firewall about 1.5".

[88accordhb]

good goin ray! can't wait to see the finished prod.

[NXRacer]

how did you center the motor to make sure it was sitting in the bay correctly?

[SteveDX89]

The PRI kit uses the old 2 bolt style driver mount; I used the newer 3 bolt GSR mount, which sits back toward the firewall about 1.5".

Yep, that's what I'm talking about. Any plans on making it both ways or just make people swap brackets?

PS. GRRRRR, you have more tranny clearance. :hs:

[mouchyn]

how did you center the motor to make sure it was sitting in the bay correctly?

a tape measure and taking your time would do it. measure where you want the engine to go, build your mounts to put the engine there, install 'em.

[BlueBead]

Looking incredible man! I'd like to see you do the Kseries mounts too, but the Bseries is insanely cool! keep shooting us those pics!

[thegreatdane]

Only k-series mounts most likely wouldnt be possible to make as bolt-on's. Rather cut&weld-on's...

[mouchyn]

Only k-series mounts most likely wouldnt be possible to make as bolt-on's. Rather cut&weld-on's...

true story. the engine is turned around and spins the other way. the tranny is on the driver side. that would require welding in new brackets, minimally.

[SteveDX89]

Apparently Hasport's K mounts in the Civics are bolt in although I wouldn't trust those brackets just being bolted. I'd def weld them in.

[racetek82]

I honestly would never trust bolt in brackets, unless the holes used were the same exact ones from the old mounts. I positioned the motor using the passenger side axle, some careful measuring, and a keen eye. It also helps to be fabricating stuff everyday and learn tricks. =) I'm planning on stickingf with the 3 bolt mount, just more piece of mind using it rather than the old 2 bolts style. The engine bracket is pretty cheap anyways if someone needs to swap for a new one, about $65 new from HASPORT. The tranny side mount is a standard HASPORT replacement. I'll take some more photos today if I have time.

[Vinny]

Looks good. I want one :D

[shepherd79]

yeah i think you should start making them. or at least basic kit that can be welded at home.

[ICEMAN707]

yeah i dont mind weld-in brackets. so long as i can use stock b-series mounts and swap b-series engines in and out like it came that way in the car. i'd probably start off with a cheap b18a LS engine, then vtec that with a b16a2 head, then turbo. eventually a b20b/vtec turbo. thanks for all the hard work ray, keep it up. you shed new light for us 3gee'ers.

i'm hoping you can use other stock honda axles mix-and-match style instead of having to cut some up and fabricate some.

[Vanilla Sky]

i'd like just the mount kit... i like the a, but the be is better...

what about something like a j swap? i mean, a v-6 might be attractive in this car...

[mouchyn]

i'd like just the mount kit... i like the a, but the be is better...

what about something like a j swap? i mean, a v-6 might be attractive in this car...

what? the A series isn't cramped enough for you?

[Vanilla Sky]

lol, actually, i believe there is enough room... i would like to measure it, though...

[racetek82]

Here's a pic of the rear mount:

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wODY3NjE0NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

The C&R aluminum Civic radiator, I welded in new lower tabs to mount the radiator lower so it would fit cleanly under the stock support.

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wODY3NjE2NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wODY3NjE3NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

The motor mounted:

http://www.we-todd-did-racing.com/wetoddimage.wtdr/wODY3NjE1NnM0MTNkZmQzMXk1NDE%3D.jpg

I removed all the power steering and AC parts after this pic. I also removed anything else I didn't need.

[mouchyn]

that's hot. if i ever get my hands on a cheap b20b/z, i'm all over putting it in my 3G.

[ICEMAN707]

awesome job ray! that motor sits nicely in there. i'm guessing that axles are gonna be next. hopefully you can mix and match stock honda axles so you could just buy them off the auto parts store to replace them instead of having to make new custom ones.

[racetek82]

The stock passenger side axles fits good. For the driver side, a 92-95 civic axle is sllightly too long. I'll take measurements and cross reference them to some available stock axles.

[ICEMAN707]

The stock passenger side axles fits good. For the driver side, a 92-95 civic axle is sllightly too long. I'll take measurements and cross reference them to some available stock axles.

give these guys a call: http://driveshafts.com/vehicular.html

these guys are good at making custom driveshafts: http://www.raxles.com/hybrids.aspx

but i'm hoping you can get away with using stock honda axles so replacement is easy. once again, great job ray. looks like you got yourself a civic si/3gee hybrid for cheaper than you would buy a 99-00 civic si for! :rockon:

[thegreatdane]

i'd like just the mount kit... i like the a, but the be is better...

what about something like a j swap? i mean, a v-6 might be attractive in this car...


lol, actually, i believe there is enough room... i would like to measure it, though...

You're right there IS room.

[racetek82]

Having room to fit a V6 into a 3G is not an issue. The real problems come from lining up the axles, having room for the headers, radiator, etc. Add to that the fact there aren't many manual V6's out there, and you will need to change up your shifter / clutch setup to make it all work. Given the weight of and ony moderate power, a V6 just isn't worth the work. I rather have a built B or K series motor with more power and better handling for about the same money and headache.

[Vanilla Sky]

i just like the nice flat power band a turbo 6 would give ya... i wouldn't care how cramped my engine bay is

[ICEMAN707]

Yeah you also have to take consideration the weight of the v6. It would screw up your weight distribution and your handling. Unless you're going for just a drag car. Even so, the 3gee front suspension can't take the weight of a v6. That was the problem they had with h22's in crx's. They haul ass in drags, but they suck at autocross and circuits.

The heavy load up front will cause tons of understeer. Furthermore, the added power up front will cause the front end to lose traction too easily. What you have is a car that goes fast, only in a straight line.

Also, putting in a V6 will require different locations for mounts. Modern day cars are designed from the ground up as an integrated structure, and this includes the engine. Moving mounts around causes the structural characteristics to change. Furthermore, it also increases the chance of a screwup happening. At least if you stick with a Honda 4 cyl., you still have the same 3 mount configuration. (The b-series uses a passenger side mount whereas the A20 uses a front crossmember mount.)

[racetek82]

Cramped or not, if the axles and headers won't fit, there's no point to a V6....

[Legend_master]

Cramped or not, if the axles and headers won't fit, there's no point to a V6....


We had a member on the acura legend forum that put a G1 v6 in a 88 civic hatch. He had no problem with the axles, because he used the legend front suspention. I think the hardest thing he had was putting wireing in the car and fitting the radiator in with the engine. I can't find the thread, because the search function is messed up on the forum right now. Looking at the engine bay of the accord it seems to be mutch larger than the civic. so I think with the skills that you have, a v6 swap would not be so bad. The one thing would be the weight difference, because those motors are heavy as hell.

[Vanilla Sky]

well, the exhaust manifold isn't a problem... just make a new one... as for the axles, if i'm not mistaken, the 1g legend has a similar chassis to our 3g33, so i don't see the geometry posing a serious problem there...

[ICEMAN707]

i don't see the point of getting a v6 from a 1g legend. that's the same as having the a20 with little or no aftermarket support and you have nothing more to gain. that would be a waste of time and money. you're better off buying a 1g legend cus i'm sure they go about as cheap as a 3gee anyways.

a b-series would open up more potential for mods in the future. like i mentioned, you would have suspension, fitment, and weight distribution problems with a v6... and you have to deal with 2 exhaust manifolds and a big transmission, not just the engine.

anyways, before we go off topic even more...how are the axles coming ray?

[racetek82]

I'm awaiting a set of used PRI axles from a forum member. When I get them I'll take measurements for the driver side axle and see if any stock honda axles will fit. If not I can try to contact TCI in regards to custom making these axles on a by order basis.

Also, after looking at the mounts again, I may be able to offer a full kit, but some welding and hammer swinging will be necessary to fit the tranny mount in. More info as it comes...

[Vanilla Sky]

hey man, as for a little "welding and hammer swinging", i honestly don't see anybody willing to swap a motor in is gonna care, as long as it's done right...
:thumbsup: for the work, man

[mouchyn]

i'm guessing that if PRI had to make axles, then no other stock honda ones worked well enough to be distributed. Then again, that could have been due to their design and engine placement. The engine being shifted just a few mm one way or another would totally change the axles required to work properly, right?

[carotman]

Awesome job dude.

Finally someone with welding skills that put them to a good use :D

I might even buy those.... just in case :D

[masterkillalw]

Yea man PLZ let me know when ur ready to ship a set of these bad boys...I have a 1987 Prelude and a B18A1 ready to go into it...all I need is the mounts and which axles to use...

[racetek82]

For those who have the PRI swap, what intermediate shaft did you use?

[SteveDX89]

For those who have the PRI swap, what intermediate shaft did you use?

The regular B intermediate shaft.

[88LXi68]

it actually depends on the tranny you are using...

[racetek82]

I think I need the B18A intermediate shaft, it has a female inlet. The B18B/C and B16 intermediates use a male outlet.

[SQ is the SQUAD]

i gotta get going, but i still gotta finda a freeking cheep b18a

[SteveDX89]

I think I need the B18A intermediate shaft, it has a female inlet. The B18B/C and B16 intermediates use a male outlet.

My B16 shaft was male on the tranny side, female on the axle side.

[mouchyn]

My B16 shaft was male on the tranny side, female on the axle side.

:stupid: that's how they all are. how else could they be? :dunno:

[SteveDX89]

:stupid: that's how they all are. how else could they be? :dunno:

Read racetek's post. He made it sound like his is different so I just clarified. Also, on other engine series, the intermediate shaft has a male outer end so I didn't know if the newer B's were like that as well.

[mouchyn]

so, the driver's side axle has a female and a male end? that's weird. i've never seen that before...

[SteveDX89]

so, the driver's side axle has a female and a male end? that's weird. i've never seen that before...

http://sportcompactcarweb.com/tech/0311scc_hybrid07_z.jpg

The bottom one is an H22 intermediate shaft.

[mouchyn]

the h22 i installed had an intermediate shaft like the b20. strange.

[88LXi68]

on newer b-series engines the side that goes into the tranny is male and the side that goes to the axle is male. Mike in NYC had an intermediate shaft like that, so they are not all the same.

[Vanilla Sky]

it's honda... need we say more about parts not working between years, even with the same car, trimline, engine code...

[racetek82]

The B18a cable trannies used a different intermediate shaft. It has a male into the tranny, and a female receptacle for the CV halfshaft.

[ICEMAN707]

hmm i've never seen an intermediate shaft on the a20a before. both axles plug up to the differential on the tranny. the passenger side is a short one and the driver's side is a thicker and longer one. so when you swap in a b-series, where is that shaft suppose to bolt to or where is it already bolted to? the engine? sorry, i've never really looked into the b-series much. i've been working on finishing touches on my bodykit and planning out the fiberglass interior layout.

anyways, any more pics ray?

[masterkillalw]

I know what hes talking about...I will look to see if I have a pic of one


edited for pic

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/430000-430999/430620_28_full.jpg

[ICEMAN707]

no pic, all i see is an X

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/430000-430999/430620_28_full.jpg

[masterkillalw]

:dunno: I see it... try this..
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/430000-430999/430620_28_full.jpg

[ICEMAN707]

hmmm let's see if this works:

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/430000-430999/430620_28_full.jpg

[ICEMAN707]

cardomain is screwy for some reason. gotta reload it a couple of times for it to show up. anyways. that set of axles look like the perfect size. are those b-series axles? they look like they match up the a20 axles lengthwise. but if that bend where the intermediate shaft is makes the axle too short to reach the driver's hub, can't you use the a20 driver's axle instead? instead of messing with the B engine's intermediate shaft? or is that the only type of axle setup that would fit the B-series without hitting anything under the B engine?

i'm guessing using the a20 driver's axle would hit something under the B engine if you use it. that's why that intermediate shaft setup is needed. am i right?

[SteveDX89]

cardomain is screwy for some reason. gotta reload it a couple of times for it to show up. anyways. that set of axles look like the perfect size. are those b-series axles? they look like they match up the a20 axles lengthwise. but if that bend where the intermediate shaft is makes the axle too short to reach the driver's hub, can't you use the a20 driver's axle instead? instead of messing with the B engine's intermediate shaft? or is that the only type of axle setup that would fit the B-series without hitting anything under the B engine?

i'm guessing using the a20 driver's axle would hit something under the B engine if you use it. that's why that intermediate shaft setup is needed. am i right?

No, intermediate shafts are used so that the drive axles are equal length. Equal length axles means less torque steer. The A20 does not have an intermediate shaft. The halfshaft fits into the tranny like a regular axle and then bolts to the back of the block with a bracket.

[mouchyn]

i don't know for sure, but the a20 axles might not have the same spline count or different spindle size as the b series axles. that would be another reason you had to use the intermediate shaft design.

[racetek82]

The A20 axles are a direct fit on the passenger side. The driver side is too long, plus the CV joint is too large to fit next to the b-series block, which is why the b-series must use an intermediate shaft.

[bboipinoy112]

you are using the A-series passenger side axle w/B-series driverside axle right? do you think the same applies to a different tranny set up w/'b'-swap ??

[racetek82]

It should be the same for all the b-series swaps. Just make sure you use the correct intermediate shaft.

[masterkillalw]

Exactly...the main reason right there is torque steer...and correct me IF I am wrong but I don't beleive that the a20 axle will fit into the B-series tranny...not 100% sure though...like I said correct me IF I am wrong...


Oh yea and yes those are B-series axles...

[ICEMAN707]

ray, have you tried using 2 passenger side a20 axles with that b-series shaft? maybe that works? looks to me from the pic, both axles on the b-series are the same size. so if you were able to fit one passenger side a20 axle, you should be able to fit another for the driver's side. if it's too short, try an h22a axle since it might be longer cus the ludes have a wider stance. or a CRV b20b axle for that matter.

also, didn't 3gees have one axle different between manual and auto? i can't remember if it's the passenger or driver's side that's different between transmission types :dunno: if one is longer than the other, perhaps you can try both and see which will be able to reach the hub with the b-series tranny. if not, go with my first suggestion with h22a and b20b axles...even the axles that go on the rear differential of 4wd CRV's

[mouchyn]

driver side axle is different between auto and manual on the 3g accord. I found out because the fucksticks at honda gave me the wrong transmission seal and wasted 8 of my hard-earned dollars.

[Legend_master]

ray, have you tried using 2 passenger side a20 axles with that b-series shaft? maybe that works? looks to me from the pic, both axles on the b-series are the same size. so if you were able to fit one passenger side a20 axle, you should be able to fit another for the driver's side. if it's too short, try an h22a axle since it might be longer cus the ludes have a wider stance. or a CRV b20b axle for that matter.

also, didn't 3gees have one axle different between manual and auto? i can't remember if it's the passenger or driver's side that's different between transmission types :dunno: if one is longer than the other, perhaps you can try both and see which will be able to reach the hub with the b-series tranny. if not, go with my first suggestion with h22a and b20b axles...even the axles that go on the rear differential of 4wd CRV's


I was thinking abotu checking the axles on the b16 powered G1 integras.

[SteveDX89]

I was thinking abotu checking the axles on the b16 powered G1 integras.

Good luck finding one. There never was one. The 1G Integra had a D16. You should be able to use the axles from 2G B18A Integra or even B17 one. You might to swap the outer CV joint and hub for the Accord one tho.

[Legend_master]

Good luck finding one. There never was one. The 1G Integra had a D16. You should be able to use the axles from 2G B18A Integra or even B17 one. You might to swap the outer CV joint and hub for the Accord one tho.


O my mistake i thought they were b16, but are the b18a axles the proper length and what half shaft do you run?

[SteveDX89]

O my mistake i thought they were b16, but are the b18a axles the proper length and what half shaft do you run?

I'm using the halfshaft that came with my B16 when I bought it. As far as I know, it's the same thing as the B18A half shaft. As far as the proper axles, it's gonna have to be a trial and error type deal. The 2g Integra seems to be about the same size and the 3g Accord so IMO, I think they are the best place to start. Until someone actually does this for sure, we won't know exactly what works.

[ICEMAN707]

yeah with placeracing out of business. it would suck to find replacement axles. best to know which stock honda axles fit. that way all you do is pick up the right ones from your local parts store when one breaks.

[masterkillalw]

so how is everything going on this swap???Haven't seen much more on this...

[racetek82]

Just waiting on a few parts, looking for a B18A intermediate shaft, and finishing up my wire harness. Hopefully I can get it all squared away in the next week or so.

[bboipinoy112]

you know what. if you are gonna produce some swap kits. one or two. . or howmany ever. . i want in on it. koo?
=D . . . i got money in hand, sooo yeaaaaa. im sorry but some of us dont have the welding skills, any shop experiance skills, any free motor skills, any nunchuk skills, bow throwing skills. but some are willing to throw some cash at those who do have the special skills. lol.... LUHKEEEY. good luck with everything. take the time. and inform us on how everything is going time to time. we are interested on the problems that accur. or the breakthroughs that you come across. much love.-junior-

[mouchyn]

you know what. if you are gonna produce some swap kits. one or two. . or howmany ever. . i want in on it. koo?
=D . . . i got money in hand, sooo yeaaaaa. im sorry but some of us dont have the welding skills, any shop experiance skills, any free motor skills, any nunchuk skills, bow throwing skills. but some are willing to throw some cash at those who do have the special skills. lol.... LUHKEEEY. good luck with everything. take the time. and inform us on how everything is going time to time. we are interested on the problems that accur. or the breakthroughs that you come across. much love.-junior-

if you have cash in hand, why not buy a welder and start learning? buy a soldering iron and start learning how to rewire stuff. it's not hard to learn -- just takes practice.

then YOU could make your own swap kits and pull in tons of side cash. private/custom fabricators make a killin on these websites. untaxed income and people with DEEP pockets looking for custom parts. cha-ching.

[bboipinoy112]

if you have cash in hand, why not buy a welder and start learning? buy a soldering iron and start learning how to rewire stuff. it's not hard to learn -- just takes practice.

then YOU could make your own swap kits and pull in tons of side cash. private/custom fabricators make a killin on these websites. untaxed income and people with DEEP pockets looking for custom parts. cha-ching.

uhmmm. . . are you trying to smart ass me? cause im kind of taking offense to what you are saying. some people dont have the time NOR place to do these things. i dont have the place. NOR do i have the spare time to learn or practice. . i work full time and go to school part time. . . . and your talking about people having pockets looking for custom parts? . . have you ever thought about me being one of those people looking for custom parts. . . THINK ABOUT IT. maybe hes the one wanting to make a killing. and im the one who wants to help him make a living. . . . . . :mad:

edit- GEEZ!. . some people arnt able to do things some people can. . why do they have car washes? why do they have oil change shops? why do they have fast foods? . . dont even say its cause they are lazy. some people dont have the knowledge or the time. but looking for the fast and easy. and i dont even know why im ranting about this. . . . but out of curiousity, mouchyn are you looking to bswap also?.

[a-k-h]

you know what. if you are gonna produce some swap kits. one or two. . or howmany ever. . i want in on it. koo?
=D . . . i got money in hand, sooo yeaaaaa. im sorry but some of us dont have the welding skills, any shop experiance skills, any free motor skills, any nunchuk skills, bow throwing skills. but some are willing to throw some cash at those who do have the special skills. lol.... LUHKEEEY. good luck with everything. take the time. and inform us on how everything is going time to time. we are interested on the problems that accur. or the breakthroughs that you come across. much love.-junior-

i will also buy this swap kit. i had to pass on alot of good motors and sell a wicked b16a1 cause noone in winnipeg has much experience with 3geez. i would do it myself but i just don't have the equipment to do the swap. good luck with the swap btw.

[mouchyn]

uhmmm. . . are you trying to smart ass me? cause im kind of taking offense to what you are saying. some people dont have the time NOR place to do these things. i dont have the place. NOR do i have the spare time to learn or practice. . i work full time and go to school part time. . . . and your talking about people having pockets looking for custom parts? . . have you ever thought about me being one of those people looking for custom parts. . . THINK ABOUT IT. maybe hes the one wanting to make a killing. and im the one who wants to help him make a living. . . . . . :mad:

edit- GEEZ!. . some people arnt able to do things some people can. . why do they have car washes? why do they have oil change shops? why do they have fast foods? . . dont even say its cause they are lazy. some people dont have the knowledge or the time. but looking for the fast and easy. and i dont even know why im ranting about this. . . . but out of curiousity, mouchyn are you looking to bswap also?.

yeah, sorry, man. i didn't mean to offend you. it's my understanding that most people who are interested in stuff like a b swap in a 3G accord have the time and palce to work on things. Without the time and space, the b swap would be very hard to begin with. Might was well just drop the car off at a shop with 3 grand and come back in two weeks.

but, i understand what you're saying. not everyone wants to get into new hobbies and stuff.

I'm not really looking into the b swap for my 3gee. my 3gee just got a freshly rebuilt and heavily modded a20a3. I ditched the hatchback seen in my sig for a sedan. I'm getting ready to have a baby and i didn't want to deal with loading and unloading the kit out of the front doors. Since the sedan is a baby carrier, it'll keep the stock engine. It gets 30+ mpg, has cold AC, shifts like butter, and looks great.

since i sold all my 3G preludes, i don't have any toys right now. My next toy is gonna be another RX-7. That was my favorite toy car, by far. I had an 87 GTU that i converted to the TurboII motor and drivetrain. 1.3L of fury. my 7 was running 12s on daily boost.

let a b16 try to talk trash to me... the only thing he will have to compliain about is the really obnoxious sound of a rotary turbo exhaust in front of him :devil:

[SteveDX89]

let a b16 try to talk trash to me... the only thing he will have to compliain about is the really obnoxious sound of a rotary turbo exhaust in front of him :devil:

Haha. I have to agree. They are pretty annoying sounding but they sure make power. I pulled up beside a TT one before and I knew it was nasty but I wanted to see how fast he really was so I got beside him and was revving and shit. Got about a car length ahead and smashed it. I think he had a delayed reaction cause I put another car length between us and then he just came flying by. I was laughing. It was insane.

[masterkillalw]

racetek82 Just waiting on a few parts, looking for a B18A intermediate shaft, and finishing up my wire harness. Hopefully I can get it all squared away in the next week or so.

Thanks for the update...Half-shafts or intermediate shafts shouldn't be too hard to come by... :werd: anyways yea just let us know what u plan do to... :thumbup:

[masterkillalw]

well I hope things are going good and u are making some progress...would love to see some pics when u get a chance...even if ur not done yet...anyways plz keep us updated...

[bboipinoy112]

hey just wanted to throw this one to the top to see how everything is going........... hope everything is going smooth

[masterkillalw]

well again to the top...

[mouchyn]

it was only like 5 lines down. why do you keep bumping it and adding useless posts for nothing?

[masterkillalw]

Well my B18A1 is going back together real soon and I will may use the mounts from ARD. If anyone is intrested I may be able to get a friend of mine to make some up but I cannot say that for sure. IF I do do this then the mounts themselves will cost me 700 bucks US. I may sell mine for say 300 or so and then that way u guys can have them for cheapier. I will keep u guys updated as my engine goes back together about what I am gonna do.

[cricketlxi88]

i like what your doing.. i have an 88 lxi and a b18 from a 90 integra, if you have any pointers for me or are interested in helping i live in contra costa county... im also looking for a few tuners out here especially some 3geez guys... :bowrofl:

[ICEMAN707]

hey racetek, any progress so far?

[masterkillalw]

I will keep u updated my man. And good luck finding some 3geez guys out there.

[88Accord-DX]

I'm going back to the origanal post. I'm hosting some pics because there so big. I like this swap here. I wish we had some up-dates on it. :sad2:


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/ddude2uc/bswap2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v488/ddude2uc/b-swap1.jpg

[masterkillalw]

sry guy still getting crap for my engine so I can put it together...

[ICEMAN707]

hey what happened to racetek? masterkilla, what's the update on yours?

[masterkillalw]

well I now need all the bolts for my engine and some other things...just got a new set of cams for it and looking to get some DC headers...I will let u guys know when I start getting things rolling on the real part of this swap...

[masterkillalw]

Bolts will be here Tuesday so I can start putting some of it back together...gonna pick up some piston rings and what not and go from there...Headers might have to wait a lil bit but I will get some...My main worry right now is just getting the engine mounts and the right axles...I am thinking that my psg side will fit both sides with the intermidate shaft...not confrimed yet though...

[ICEMAN707]

good luck man. take some pics.

[masterkillalw]

will do...might ba a lil while...I am hoping to have this in by the end of the month or at the begging of next month so...anyways will try my best to keep in touch and all...

[ICEMAN707]

hey i found this on preludepower.com.

http://www.geocities.com/b16aprelude/swap.wednesday.31.10.html

a guy did a b16 swap into his 2nd gen lude which is the same as the 3gee. from the looks of it you can use integra axles for axles and front crossmember to utilize the stock b-series front mount. just have to worry about the driver's side bracket for the mount. the b-series mount is wider and the bracket on the 3gee is too narrow. you might have to cut that off and weld in an integra bracket or custom one made of 1/4" steel plate.

as for the rear b-series mount, it looks like it can sit on the stock 3gee rear crossmember. you just have to drill new holes to be able to mount the b-series rear mount to it.

on the passenger side, the b-series has a transmission side mount, but the 3gee doesn't. i think you have to weld in a custom bracket using steel plate again there too for the b-series transmission mount to bolt to.

good thing about this is, you can do all this using stock b-series mounts. just have to find a way to get them to bolt to the 3gee frame rail and this seems to be the way.

this will be my approach to my swap. i suggest you try it out too since you are ahead of me.

if this works, this would be a relatively cheap way to do a b-series swap! (the engine would be the ONLY thing where most of the cost goes: $200-$900 depending on which b-series you are getting (except GSR, ITR, CTR, b16A2 which are like $1k-$3k). no need for ungodly expensive custom mounts, axles, and wiring) .....oh yeah, the guy also has pinouts in that site that would help with the wiring process...so check that out too (just go back to the main page and the link for the pinouts is there).

[Legend_master]

hey i found this on preludepower.com.

http://www.geocities.com/b16aprelude/swap.wednesday.31.10.html

a guy did a b16 swap into his 2nd gen lude which is the same as the 3gee. from the looks of it you can use integra axles for axles and front crossmember to utilize the stock b-series front mount. just have to worry about the driver's side bracket for the mount. the b-series mount is wider and the bracket on the 3gee is too narrow. you might have to cut that off and weld in an integra bracket or custom one made of 1/4" steel plate.

as for the rear b-series mount, it looks like it can sit on the stock 3gee rear crossmember. you just have to drill new holes to be able to mount the b-series rear mount to it.

on the passenger side, the b-series has a transmission side mount, but the 3gee doesn't. i think you have to weld in a custom bracket using steel plate again there too for the b-series transmission mount to bolt to.

good thing about this is, you can do all this using stock b-series mounts. just have to find a way to get them to bolt to the 3gee frame rail and this seems to be the way.

this will be my approach to my swap. i suggest you try it out too since you are ahead of me.

if this works, this would be a relatively cheap way to do a b-series swap! (the engine is where most of the cost goes anyways: $200-$900 depending on which b-series you are getting) .....oh yeah, the guy also has pinouts in that site that would help with the wiring process...so check that out too (just go back to the main page and the link for the pinouts is there).


that axles thing is a exactly what I needed to know, I just wonder what year he used. As for the wireing I have a couple companies working together to getmy wireing taken care of. Jason at www.JKobd.com is making the sub harness and http://www.rywire.com/021dizzy.shtml is making the engine harness. They are woking with each other to help make the whole harness work. I am getting out for about $400.00 or less for both harnesses.

[SteveDX89]

that axles thing is a exactly what I needed to know, I just wonder what year he used. As for the wireing I have a couple companies working together to getmy wireing taken care of. Jason at www.JKobd.com is making the sub harness and http://www.rywire.com/021dizzy.shtml is making the engine harness. They are woking with each other to help make the whole harness work. I am getting out for about $400.00 or less for both harnesses.

http://www.3geez.com/showpost.php?p=520713&postcount=5

I'm not sure how many times I've posted that but it's probably been about 5 times or so. I don't understand why the big fuss is over axles still. Try it out. If it work, there you go. 90-93 Integra axles.

[masterkillalw]

well I think I can do this much easier now without the ARD mounts...I can get a crossmember no problem...the rear mount I will just drill and bolt up...the side mount is where I will have to think the most...axles are no problem for me right now...

[ICEMAN707]

that axles thing is a exactly what I needed to know, I just wonder what year he used. As for the wireing I have a couple companies working together to getmy wireing taken care of. Jason at www.JKobd.com is making the sub harness and http://www.rywire.com/021dizzy.shtml is making the engine harness. They are woking with each other to help make the whole harness work. I am getting out for about $400.00 or less for both harnesses.

I don't think you should pay that much for wiring bro. The 3gee dash is the easiest dash to take out. That would give you access to all the wiring under the dash pretty easily. If you look at the pinouts between the 3gee and a b-series ECU, you'd see that almost 90% of the pins match. You can even do it the easy way and use the whole b-series engine harness in place of the stock 3gee engine harness. You just have to figure out how to wire your guages and main fuse relay to work with that wiring. I'm sure all it takes is swapping out the guage cluster plugs. Honda makes it easy cus they use the same color wires for all their cars. A little splicing and color-matching is all it would take.
So it's your choice, use a b-series ECU engine harness and do all the splicing at the guages and main fuse relay box, OR use your stock 3gee ECU engine harness and do the splicing & pin-switching at the ECU. Whichever is easier for you.


well I think I can do this much easier now without the ARD mounts...I can get a crossmember no problem...the rear mount I will just drill and bolt up...the side mount is where I will have to think the most...axles are no problem for me right now...


I dont think there was even such thing as premade ARD mounts man. But I hope what I posted helped. Good luck on it and take some pics!

[Vanilla Sky]

no, those are placeracing mounts. ARD just sold parts.

[SteveDX89]

I don't think you should pay that much for wiring bro. The 3gee dash is the easiest dash to take out. That would give you access to all the wiring under the dash pretty easily. If you look at the pinouts between the 3gee and a b-series ECU, you'd see that almost 90% of the pins match. You can even do it the easy way and use the whole b-series engine harness in place of the stock 3gee engine harness. You just have to figure out how to wire your guages and main fuse relay to work with that wiring. I'm sure all it takes is swapping out the guage cluster plugs. Honda makes it easy cus they use the same color wires for all their cars. A little splicing and color-matching is all it would take.
So it's your choice, use a b-series ECU engine harness and do all the splicing at the guages and main fuse relay box, OR use your stock 3gee ECU engine harness and do the splicing & pin-switching at the ECU. Whichever is easier for you.


Actually, if you can get a hold of an OBD 0 VTEC engine harness, you can use it like you said. But you don't need to splice anything to get the cluster to work etc. Just re-pin the engine harness to match up with the Accord cabin harness.

[ICEMAN707]

Actually, if you can get a hold of an OBD 0 VTEC engine harness, you can use it like you said. But you don't need to splice anything to get the cluster to work etc. Just re-pin the engine harness to match up with the Accord cabin harness.

hmmm.....cool idea. but i didn't think the words "vtec" and "obd-0" fell in the same category. i thought they were all at least obd-1 and up. you're gonna have to source that obd-0 vtec harness from japan from 88-91 JDM civics and tegs with the PW0 and PR3 ECU. too much trouble IMO.

[Legend_master]

hmmm.....cool idea. but i didn't think the words "vtec" and "obd-0" fell in the same category. i thought they were all at least obd-1 and up. you're gonna have to source that obd-0 vtec harness from japan from 88-91 JDM civics and tegs with the PW0 and PR3 ECU. too much trouble IMO.


They made an obd0 b16 powered CRX that is pretty easy to find parts for on Ebay. I can't remeber the ECu code, but I think it was P30. Dont quote me on that one, because I am not sure.

[SteveDX89]

hmmm.....cool idea. but i didn't think the words "vtec" and "obd-0" fell in the same category. i thought they were all at least obd-1 and up. you're gonna have to source that obd-0 vtec harness from japan from 88-91 JDM civics and tegs with the PW0 and PR3 ECU. too much trouble IMO.

All USDM VTEC motors are OBD 1 but the 88-91 JDM B16 is what you'd need. The harness would probably be hard to find but you might find it somewhere. All you will need to do to modify your Accord harness is change the plugs so they fit the engine sensors and then add the VTEC wiring. If you have both diagrams beside you, it shouldn't be hard. I wish I had done mine myself instead of having PRI rape me for it.


They made an obd0 b16 powered CRX that is pretty easy to find parts for on Ebay. I can't remeber the ECu code, but I think it was P30. Dont quote me on that one, because I am not sure.

OBD 0 B16 JDM Civic/CRX = PW0
OBD 0 B16 JDM Integra = PR3

[Legend_master]

theres one one ebay right now.

Obd0 Engine harness (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=6763&item=7980628499&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW)

[ICEMAN707]

I got the a20 motor and dash out. The car is basically bare bones now :lol: The engine harness was pretty easy to get to and remove once the dash was out of the way. I got bored today so I spent time cleaning the heck out of the engine bay with some Simple Green and water and opened up the wire harness to see all the wires underneath. I removed all the auto tranny stuff also. It's good to be back working on the car again. I dunno why, but for some reason I have more fun working on the car all the time than driving it. You can only have so much fun driving it till you get bored and want something more. :lol:

[thegreatdane]

Couldnt agree more.