3 more wks b4 turbo upgrade!!!!

[military mase]

well i've saved up a good amount of moneyand i'm going to do my upgade real soon which i will also get my engine rebuilt at the same time. i was doing the research and was wondering besides the custom piping and stuff. but with the enternals is pretty much all i have to change is the cam(if i want) rods and pistons(maybe the bearings). is there anything that is must that i need to upgrade or change. i only ask cuz there's lot's of things on the board people make priority. i'm not going to be running any high boost cuz i want it to still be a daily driver.

[Elijah]

I think the cam is the last or shouldnt even be changed. Pistons rods bearings are a must. Have you desided what your gonna do for manigment? How much power do you want? This helps in figuring out on the manegment and wastegate intercooler ect..

[jigga89SEi]

Unless u have a whole list of things planned and haven't told us, ur missin alot....
First how much do you plan to boost?
I'd highly recommend gettin the block sleeved
Upgrading internals, ie rods, pistons, etc
head work
Management
manifold
etc
etc...
it actually takes quite a bit...

[NXRacer]

no block sleeving neccesary. Cast-iron closed-deck blocks are bullet proof. If you're going for a moderate amount of boost (up to about 10lbs) you wont even really need to worry about upgraded pistons/rods if your engine is in good shape. You will probably want to get an upgraded head gasket.

Engine management is your biggest worry. Until we get this OBD1 thing figured out you'll have to settle with a VAFC or other independant EMS like AEM (i wouldnt recommend that route).

[86LXItooFAST4me]

3 more wks b4 turbo upgrade!!!!

bastard...... j/k i envy you man! but not for to long, hopefully.



You will probably want to get an upgraded head gasket.


hey, how would you do that with our engines? i was going to ask this one day but since you brought it up. do you have to get like a metal shime or something?

[military mase]

that's the one thing i need to figure out.....i thing i'm going to go with VAFC but which is the best for the buck. the same guy who's gonna do my custom turbo works on race and drag cars so i'll have to get with him also. i don't have to get the block sleeved' it can handle the power anyway. i want to run 10psi 12max since i was going to do the turbo why not do a mild cam grin????

[86LXItooFAST4me]

that's the one thing i need to figure out.....i thing i'm going to go with VAFC but which is the best for the buck. the same guy who's gonna do my custom turbo works on race and drag cars so i'll have to get with him also. i don't have to get the block sleeved' it can handle the power anyway. i want to run 10psi 12max since i was going to do the turbo why not do a mild cam grin????

hey call up jeff at colt cams (http://www.coltcams.com). he has a special turbo grind for the a20's

[military mase]

any other good info for engine managment. the car tech guy that looked at my car has done almost the same setup to another car he did last year with turbo and fmic.

[shepherd79]

why do people assume that A20 block is open block. it is not B series block or H22 block. It is full cast iron block. you don't have to sleeve it or do anything to it. it is a lot stronger and can hold more boost.

[RobT5580]

If Jonny can run 28psi and nitrous i would say its strong enough....LOL

[bobafett]

that's the one thing i need to figure out.....i thing i'm going to go with VAFC but which is the best for the buck. the same guy who's gonna do my custom turbo works on race and drag cars so i'll have to get with him also. i don't have to get the block sleeved' it can handle the power anyway. i want to run 10psi 12max since i was going to do the turbo why not do a mild cam grin????


BOOM

VAFC is not engine management...

and if you have a20 just buy an SAFC and paypal me the leftover money to [email protected] because you dont have vtec buddy..



for a ghetto management you could try some DSM 450cc injectors, walbro 255 lph fuel pump, fuel pressure regulator, SAFC, msd BTM, and then you have just spent over $800 on ghetto fuel and spark management. welcome to the expensive world of not blowing up your turbo motor...

and sean has dyno testing that shows the stock cam to be even called "good" for turbo setups like yours (ie not a full race setup)

be careful. it sounds like you have a loooooooooot more research to do, check out www.homemadeturbo.com/forums/ for a whlie, a lot of good info there

[Elijah]

I was gonna say something about vafc but you beat me to it lol. Managment I have FPR,FMU,BTM,bigger pump,MSD coil and msd/msi ignition and it handles 10 psi with no problems. 10psi would be the max I would go with this setup though. Im still running stock injectors and there fine. I tryed some 310cc axcell NSX injectors but the impedence was wrong. Im selling my btm and fmu soon if your interested

[NXRacer]

my bad. SAFC whatever. :tongue: im not so up to date on that type of 'engine management'. hondata type systems are FAR better IMO.

[88accordhb]

I love this thread...learning about boost turns me on.

good luck with the project military guy...keep truckin.

[military mase]

well i know it seems like i'm leaving stuff out but i've thought about and reseached a lot of the things that need to go into this. why bring up the questions i can find by doing a search when i can talk about more of the other stuff i need to think about that's up in the air and subject to opinion

[military mase]

yeah i ment safc i also look for stuff for my civic. anyone have a'pexi??? how good is it??? but isnt vafc almost the same thing besides the vtec control.???

[smufguy]

military mase, what kinda turbo are u wanting to run? You do know that you need to pick a turbo for your targetted power output and also match their efficiency island and spool up rpm so that you dont start spooling on the left of the surge line. there are a lot of standalones available and if you search the project section or one of the sticky perf sections that i made about turbos, u will find the choices. Standalones like the AEM and greddy are the best way to go. also, does your state check for emissions or smog?

[86LXItooFAST4me]

are there any stand alone units that will let you pass emission? or is that even possible? i mean i know they control the ignition and fuel and all of that but they dont run emissions at all?

[military mase]

Lucky for me NC only does the obd test on cars 94 and upso no smog test for me.. The friend that helped me with my EFI swap has a T3 on his workshelf waiting for me. hmmm??? for some reason i missed your thread smufman. I'll have to look up TEC3...i thought AEM wasnt all that good?? Any truth behind this.

[A20A1]

Read thru the turbo thread I listed engine management and the links to the company site that will give youi information on the product... I did the searching for you guys so all you need to do is scroll and click...

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=37169

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[smufguy]

hey militarymase: TEC 3 is expensive, very expensive. SO for you, i would say go for AEM or SDS. SDS is simple and lot of tuners know how to tune it. I think one of the Good AEM tuners is from your state so pm ROB-T to ask his name cause the same dude tunes for robt.

how much hp do u wanna run? how much psi do u wanna run? how much do you wanna rev up to?

Give me a reply of those and ill let u know what kinda turbo is good for you and why. This is cause you dont wanna have a turbo that would spool up too late and at the same time spool up too quickly and start surging at the top end. Either of the two is just too damn bad.

86LXItooFAST4me: its possible to pass emissions with no cat and egr with good tuning. We have a guy at our work who has a 500hp civic that has no cat (just the imitation cover around the pipe) and passes emission legally. This is only possible with a different map and within certain rpm. WIth the standalone u can set limitters so that they cant overrev it, in a way u can set the limiter to 4 or 5K and configure the outputs just for those rpms and u will pass no matter what. and yeah, NJ is one of the strictest in the country but atleast we dont get smog tests and no nosing under the hood either.

[bobafett]

BTW AEM EMS installed and tuned will run you about $3500 plus $300-$500 for a wideband. so tec-3 isnt that bad... ;)

[military mase]

i'm looking at 200hp / 10-12psi / 5k .....i jus talked to the tech that is going to rebuild my engine and he told me AEM/GREEDY/A'PEXI etheir one will do. like i said they work one mostly race engines so he told me if there's something that would be better for performance he would tell me. .....eventally i do want to up the ponies though. i want to get to at least around 280-300hp.

[jigga89SEi]

don't have to get the block sleeved' it can handle the power anyway.

http://www.3geez.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3542&stc=1

If that can happen with a stock engine I don't feel that I wasted my money.... Just my opinion though... I understand that it's alot of money... But I believe I can only benefit from it and I found a good shop out in the Midwest that does it...


SDS is simple and lot of tuners know how to tune it.

I agree with smufguy... Thats what I'm going with... It's real fun to play around with...

[RobT5580]

BTW AEM EMS installed and tuned will run you about $3500 plus $300-$500 for a wideband. so tec-3 isnt that bad... ;)

I dont know where $3500 comes from my 30-1040 EMS ran $1300 and $150 for the OBD-0 to OBD-1 conversion harness and a full tune would run about $500 by a proffesional and certified AEM Tuner. And he happens to be in NC which is where my AEM tuner is from so that would certainly work out well in his case. But its probably more than you want to spend.

I considered the TEC-3 because my friend is a dealer but im not to fond of changing my whole wiring harness although it would be 10x cleaner. And you have to setup a trigger on the crank as well.

[smufguy]

i'm looking at 200hp / 10-12psi / 5k .....i jus talked to the tech that is going to rebuild my engine and he told me AEM/GREEDY/A'PEXI etheir one will do. like i said they work one mostly race engines so he told me if there's something that would be better for performance he would tell me. .....eventally i do want to up the ponies though. i want to get to at least around 280-300hp.

AEM is your way to go. CHeck up on that.

To run 12 psi and rev at 5000 rpm, you will have a maximum pressure ratio of (PR) 1.92 and the corrected mass air flow (cMf) of 22.14. For all this, the turbos of your selection are T3 50trim (great turbo with good efficiency area 70% & 75%) as external wastegated or you can also use the mitsubishi turbos 14bs (i guess, the ones on talon/laser/eclipse) are good upto 15psi and they are internal wastegate. So its upto you, so yeah as you go bigger in the size for turbos, u will have the later spool up but with a t3 hot side, you can expect a quicker one.

[A20A1]

don't have to get the block sleeved' it can handle the power anyway.


http://www.3geez.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=3542&stc=1

If that can happen with a stock engine I don't feel that I wasted my money.... Just my opinion though... I understand that it's alot of money... But I believe I can only benefit from it and I found a good shop out in the Midwest that does it...


That can happen on a sleeved block too... That hole has nothing to do with the deck... your rod's most likely made that hole.
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[RobT5580]

There are other options like Uberdata/Hondata/Neptune and stuff but its worthless w/o the proper tuner. So i would look for a decent tuner and what they work best with and recommend for your setup.

[mykwikcoupe]

been a while since i looked into uberdata. thats probably what ill go with if the project ets going again. What are the limitations of that. PSI range. Would it do a gt28rs rated 20 psi? Say 550+ injectors? Did they ever figure out how to add a boost trigger in it? Does anyone know of a dual stage with scramble function boost controller. ive got the hks evc 4 right now but Im thinking the 45 sec. scamble isnt long enough.

I dont like hondata what a waste. Aem sounds good but you limited to what YOU can do. Or at least what I could do. Im sure robs a little more familiar with it than me right now.

[military mase]

where at in NC does that AEM tuner live ROBT?? Right now i'm in Fayetteville/Ft.Bragg area.

[smufguy]

been a while since i looked into uberdata. thats probably what ill go with if the project ets going again. What are the limitations of that. PSI range. Would it do a gt28rs rated 20 psi? Say 550+ injectors? Did they ever figure out how to add a boost trigger in it? Does anyone know of a dual stage with scramble function boost controller. ive got the hks evc 4 right now but Im thinking the 45 sec. scamble isnt long enough.

I dont like hondata what a waste. Aem sounds good but you limited to what YOU can do. Or at least what I could do. Im sure robs a little more familiar with it than me right now.

our motors can take 20psi easy. The only thing we have to do is get beefier rods and good pistons and of course the usual rod and head bolts. the gt28rs aka disco potatoe is a nice little turbo, considered as the direct bolt on for DSMs and Sr20 motors. I dont really like their flow map, but they are good only upto 25psi (pushing it). its good for moderate power, but not too much power gain in its most efficient area.

[RobT5580]

where at in NC does that AEM tuner live ROBT?? Right now i'm in Fayetteville/Ft.Bragg area.

He works at a shop in the Raleigh area and does work on the side as well. Im sure he would travel to you since it comes to MA/CT area every few months for tuning sessions. He is a busy guy so you have to be ready for him or you will have to pay by the hour to diagnose your problems. But if i were in your area i would do it hands down if you can afford him. Tuning our cars are more involved so if you go this route expect to pay a little more than a regular tune.

[military mase]

once everything is done i'll get in contact with you to set something up if possible. if i'm gonna do this might as well do it right the first time with little problems to deal with. the guy that i'm taking my engine to is well known around here and is tedious and nit picky when it comes to doing his work so i shouldn't have any problems.