Advice - I smacked a curb

[Nice Guy Neil]

Alright, I was out driving and slid into a curb. The steering felt really bad afterwards, and the wheels were at different angles, so I took it to pep boys for an alignment (only place open on Sunday). Anyway, they said that the thing connecting the steering to the wheel was bent (I wish I knew what it was called - I don't know too much about this stuff). The guy said he didn't know whether they'd have to replace the whole rack or whether they could do just that part. He said it'd be around $300 if it was just that one and $1000+ if they had to do the whole thing. Naturally, I decided that if they had to do the whole thing, I'd just take it home and try to do it myself. Is that very difficult to do? Do you think the whole rack will need to be replaced? Thanks for any info or advice.
-Neil

[buds302]

first off dude.....can anybody say rip off!!!!!
the new rack is about 200 bucks from the parts store.
and the tie rod end is about 25 bucks. so i would do it myself. where you live at dude?

[Nice Guy Neil]

I live near Atlanta, Georgia. They were saying that parts would be about 200 for the rack, but that labor would be a lot. Is it very difficult to replace the rack? I've got power steering (in case that was an option on our cars).

[HondaBoy]

i looked up a couple of new racks. one was $143.99 + $100 core charge. the other was $85.99 + $45 core charge. i remember getting a new rack and it wasnt too much, it was under $200. yeah, i'd say if you've done some work on the car before do it yourself. personally i would. if you have a repair manual that would make a lot easier. if you believe you are getting ripped, go get a second opinion from another shop. i'd think the only thing that would be messed up would be the tie rod. i dont remember if that by itself can be replaced, probley not.

[88Accord-DX]

That is outer tie rod end that needs re-placed. Hitting a curb shouldn't ruin the rack. He is trying pull some b.s. over on you.
It isn't to bad a job to re-place it. Pull the cotter pin out, loosen the nut. Hit a hammer by where the tie rod end goes into steering knuckle, should pop it loose. Count the number of threads on sleeve when you unscrew the tie rod end.

Hopefully you get it close enough without having to get another front end alighnment.

[Nice Guy Neil]

Thanks for the advice, folks. I'll let them determine what they think the problem is, then decide whether I can do it myself. If all I have to do is put it on jack stands, take out the old one, and put in a new tie rod, I could probably manage that pretty easily. Thanks again - it's nice to see that worse case, I can still get it done for a few hundred bucks and not spend a grand on a two grand car. Leaves more money for performance mods:)

[Moodybluesr]

Actually if the tie-rod is bent it is usually the inner one that is bad. Changing out the entire tie-rod (outer and inner) is actually pretty easy to do if you have the right tools, just make sure you get an alignment done afterwards.

['89AccordLX(Rus)]

Just to expand a little on what Moodybluesr said. The tie rod (which is what your mechanic told you was bent) consists of three parts: the inner joint (inner tie rod end), the metal rod that is the actual connecting piece, and the outer joint(outer tie rod end). In your case, and as mentioned earlier, the entire assembly may need to be replaced. The only hard part of that task is replacing the inner tie rod end because it requires special tools (which you should be able to rent at most autoparts stores). From that point on its pretty straightforward. Here is a diagram:
http://www.hondaautomotiveparts.com/catimgs/13SE00_J34.gif
Items # 9 and 13 are the ones that you'll probably need to replace. Hope this helps.

[MrBen]

The inner end can be taken off with the tools from your toolbox, but expect bloody knuckles ;)

[Moodybluesr]

I have a Lisle inner tie-rod end tool. :D You can also use a 19mm (I think) crow's foot and a 24" 3/8 inch extension for most Hondas.

[snow_man_20]

The inner end can be taken off with the tools from your toolbox, but expect bloody knuckles ;)

dude he is right i helped replace the rack on a crx and had a few beat knuckles. it's a really good idea to get an alighnment done.

[Nice Guy Neil]

Alright, update on the situation. They originally said they just needed to replace the inner and outer tie rods, total $200 bucks including alignment. Then, when I called to authorize them to do that, they said that they noticed that the steering rack valve I believe it was, was catching, so the wheel wasn't returning, so they wanted another $250 for a new rack and $250 for labor to replace that too. Naturally I asked them to leave it there for me to pick it up. So if I want to fix this valve, I need to replace the whole rack? If so, I better get ordering so I can fix this on saturday.


Thanks for everybody's help so far!

[88Accord-DX]

Have you visually looked under you car and seen what is bent? Are you losing power steering fluid?
Generally from my expereince with racks, there is some play in the steering wheel and the tires don't move when the rack is bad. Also, if there is some leaking of power steering fluid around the boots then it is blown seal.
There are some racks that you can tighten up the play on, but don't think this pertains to our Accord.
If there is a blown seal/valve, yes, you need to replace the whole rack. It isn't to bad a job. Of coarse you need an alighment after wards.

Also, check your ball joints & suspension for any other possible damage.

[Nice Guy Neil]

I don't appear to be losing PS fluid. The thing that is bent is the thing that goes from (presumably) the rack and connects it to the wheel. The tie rod, I believe. I've ordered the tie rod ends (hopefully one of them will contain the actual rod itself) and will take the car one more place to have them take a look at it before I go and replace everything in sight.

['89AccordLX(Rus)]

It appears as though the inner tie rod end (the one that connects to the rack) comes in assembly with the actual tie rod itself (Honda OEM part does anyway), so if you ordered both the inner and outer you'll probably get the complete assembly.

EDIT: http://www.partsamerica.com/product_images/img/BAR/1014094.jpg

That's what the inner tie rod end looks like, so it does include the actual tie rod.

[Nice Guy Neil]

Thanks folks. I got them both in, and the inner does indeed include the rod. Unless the place I'm having look at it has good news, I suppose this weekend I'll learn about steering and suspension than I intended to. I appreciate the help.
-Neil

[blahblahblah]

Pep Boys, WOW, That place f#*king sucks. Never have them do any work on a car. Their work sucks and thay RIP YOU A NEW ASSHOLE in laber. Let them look at it all they what tho. Just take it to a real place afterwords.

Changing the tie rods is ez work. Good luck tho...

[Nice Guy Neil]

Alright, update, hopefully the conclusion in this little saga:
I took it to campbell tire, a family-owned kinda place. They confirmed that yes, the rack is bad - bent, I believe. They said for parts+labor on the rack, tie rods, alignment it'd be a little over $300 bucks - Pep Boys wanted $500 just to replace the rack. That price isn't too bad, especially as it would've taken a good bit of time to replace the rack. Thanks for the help with stuff - you guys are great.
-Neil

[smufguy]

i know im a little late. But there should be a junkyard around your town? Here we got two kinds, one wher eu pull it yourself, and the other where they pull it for you, The price difference is nothing crazy, like 20 to 50 bux. and its nothing if someone else is pulling the steering rack. I actually pulled it from my car and shipped it to a dude in California. Taking the old inner rods out is a pain in the ass and u need a heavyduty, sharp flat head screw driver and hammer to smack the lock bent washer to loosen the rods. It was a very dirty job with the grease all over the place. But its nothing that cannot be done at home. If i was you, i would have give a shot with the junkyard, its a one day job to pull it and putting it back, its quite some work, but atleast u can save some buncha money.

[88Accord-DX]

$300 is pretty good deal for the whole job including tie rod ends & rack plus alighnment. Jump on it. I don't know what kind of money you make, but I bet it is worth it to you. Pulling one off & putting one back on yourself is little bit of work. Plus you need an alighnment which would run over $50. Watch them curbs next time.
I personally hit a curb & just messed up the outer tie rod end. You must have hit the curb pretty hard!

[Nice Guy Neil]

Yeah, I was suprised that I messed up the rack as well. I'm not sure how fast I was going, but it was definitely under 10 mph. Part of it could be that the wheels were pointing perpendicular to the curb. I was out "drifting" on the ice, so I suppose I had it coming more than anyone :)

[Nice Guy Neil]

Hey folks. I had them replace the rack (only $100 of labor, so I suppose it was a good deal). Now I've got a few issues. The steering seems to somtimes slowly move in one direction - usually right, sometimes left. This usually happens when I'm accelerating - if I take my hands off the wheel it'll slowly spin in one direction. The blinkers are acting weird - somtimes hard to put turn on and don't turn off correctly. I'm unsure if this is a related problem. These things weren't happening before. Any ideas on what they could be - perhaps they used non-honda PS fluid or something like?
Thanks in advance,
Neil

[smufguy]

to replace the rack they might have misadjusted the tie rods leading to improper wheel alignment. so get it aligned. ALso, they might have removed the steering wheel and column by mistake since we dont have to do that to remove the rack so remove the steering wheel cover and the wheel and see if the white plastic bushing is in place and grease it with lithium grease if u can. Its probably not lubed controls.

[Nice Guy Neil]

Alright, they _did_ do an alignment, but I'll check that stuff.

[smufguy]

its a little weird that even after alignment ur car is doing crazy stuff. It could be bent suspension parts, most likely ur lower control arms. IF they are bent, they dont read out on the computer at the alignment station, but will be pronounced under acceleration breaking and cornering. my car has wacked out negative camber in the front for god knows why (nothing is bent, but who knwos) and i have to deal with this straying car for a while until i get my next one, then ill ditch this.

[YK86]

The problem with the drifting might be a loose/bent balljoint or some kind of screwed up bushing that got damaged in the accident. The bushing holding the rack might be a bit loose as well. Accelerating usually puts stress on the loose/wornout part causing the car to wander to one side all of a sudden. Best thing to do is get the car up on stands and visually check everything, make sure the bushings aren't cracked, and check the joints for excessive play.

As for the turn signals, there's a disk that turns with the steering wheel that "kicks" the signal lever back when returning the wheel after the turn. If they didn't align the disk properly with the steering wheel after removing the steering wheel (which is something I've done myself), that would cause the problems you're describing.