intermitten problem, please help

[snow_man_20]

ok i hope i give enough info so you guys can help me, it's kinda a intermitten problem.

It always starts up cold never has a problem with that. cold it itles at about 1500 to 1700. Now after driving around town, all warmed up, and i stop like at a store or friends house, shut it off for about 10 to 90min then try to start it is when i have problems. It somtimes don't even fire, just cranks, and cranks, and cranks.

Today it did it and the only way i got it started was to hold the gas pedle down all the way and crank it for about 5 seconds to get a fire. (don't really know if holding the pedle down helped or not) Ok and somtimes, almost every other time, when it starts it rises rpm to about 1500 (warm engine) for about a second then drops to about 500 or so killing it :mad: . after that no easy start, i just crank and crank it till it starts. cranking for about 5 seconds and then 15 to 30 second brake. it usualy starts on about the fifth try. when warm and running the idle is somtimes at 750, somtimes 950 to 1000, but it fluxuates almost every time i bring it to idle. The thing that pisses me off about this the most is that it always runs perfect when i take it to a mecanic so now he thinks i'm crazy and don't listen to any thing i say now. he can't seem to find the problem.

more info on vic.
1989 lxi 5spd.
ran perfect one week ago

new parts 3 weeks ago
bosh X4 plugs
bosh wires
cap and rotor
timing belt
waterpump
fuel filter
2 injectors #4 and #3
valves ajd.
valve cover gasket
injen SR intake

ok, i think that's it, please help, any help will be very much appreciated. thank you

mike

[Oldblueaccord]

ok i hope i give enough info so you guys can help me, it's kinda a intermitten problem.

It always starts up cold never has a problem with that. cold it itles at about 1500 to 1700. Now after driving around town, all warmed up, and i stop like at a store or friends house, shut it off for about 10 to 90min then try to start it is when i have problems. It somtimes don't even fire, just cranks, and cranks, and cranks.

Today it did it and the only way i got it started was to hold the gas pedle down all the way and crank it for about 5 seconds to get a fire. (don't really know if holding the pedle down helped or not) Ok and somtimes, almost every other time, when it starts it rises rpm to about 1500 (warm engine) for about a second then drops to about 500 or so killing it :mad: . after that no easy start, i just crank and crank it till it starts. cranking for about 5 seconds and then 15 to 30 second brake. it usualy starts on about the fifth try. when warm and running the idle is somtimes at 750, somtimes 950 to 1000, but it fluxuates almost every time i bring it to idle. The thing that pisses me off about this the most is that it always runs perfect when i take it to a mecanic so now he thinks i'm crazy and don't listen to any thing i say now. he can't seem to find the problem.

more info on vic.
1989 lxi 5spd.
ran perfect one week ago

new parts 3 weeks ago
bosh X4 plugs
bosh wires
cap and rotor
timing belt
waterpump
fuel filter
2 injectors #4 and #3
valves ajd.
valve cover gasket
injen SR intake

ok, i think that's it, please help, any help will be very much appreciated. thank you

mike

first thing to look at is the main realy its on the inside under the dash by your left foot. It freq. goes bad and can be intermitent. It runs your fuel pump. It is black box with a red bottom where the wires plug in. Look at the scematic for it you can jump it out with a jumper wire to test it.

wp

[carotman]

The main relay will rarely fail during the winter but it sure can be a problem if the inside of the car is warm. There is an wasy way to tell if the main relay is good:

When you first turn they key to position II on the ignition, the Check Engine ligne comes ON. when it comes OFF, you should hear a "click". If you don't hear anything, something is bad. You also should be able to hear the pump engaging as soon as you turn the key on position II.

If the main relay is fine, check the coolant temp sensor. Sometimes they go bad and will fool the ECU thinking the car is hot or cold when it's totally the opposite.

There is a testing procedure in the honda shop manual available Paul's website ( www.pauldesign.ru )

[Moodybluesr]

http://www.markl.f9.co.uk/howto/electrical/main-relay/main-relay.htm

Problems starting the car, usually after a short run (when the interior is warm), though in bad cases the car may fail to start at any time. A classic time for the problem to occur is at the petrol station, or if you park for a minute to get something from a shop. If the car is parked for a long period, the interior usually has cooled enough for the joint to make contact again, and you won't notice a problem. As the cabin temperature is a major feature of this problem, it might appear worse on cold or rainy days when you have the heater running to clear the windows etc. Extremely cold temperatures can also cause the problem to be more apparent.

[snow_man_20]

ok i guess i will have to test it, i was going to buy a new one but there $50 or more, i thought a main relay was like a $5 part! i guess it's better then a fuel pump or somthing like that (just jinxed myself). one question though, if the relay was going bad and had somthing like a short in it, what would it do when it's running?? the car has never died after it has been runing for a min. or so, just kinda idles strange in the past few days. Is the main relay somthing that is only used at start-up?

[snow_man_20]

i think i'm going to test the fuel pressure too, i would hate for it to be a problem though, but i better check. If it was a fuel problem like a pump or pressure regulator, it would do it almost all the time, even cold huh??

[snow_man_20]

OK i did alot of research + your input so far and found that it seems to be pretty common problem in the summer but not in the winter and not very many people posted if thay fixed it or not. It's like you guys told them what was wrong or gave some ideas and no posts after that :squint: . So i don't know, i'm going to listen for the click from the relay and mabie test it if i have time today. I also read about the ect sensor mabie the problem. I will find out when i get home. i have the haynes and chilton manual, but thay don't help 1/2 as much as you guys, thay don't say anything about the main relay or ect in the troubleshooting section. thanks for pointing me in the right derection :thumbup:

[88LXi/87CRXSi]

From the symptoms you describe, ect sensor has gone bad.

[Oldblueaccord]

From the symptoms you describe, ect sensor has gone bad.

I keep my relay loose down by my foot so I can kick it if it doesnt work.

And like I said you can jump the one post to the other to TEST it. I dont think that cost anything but a jumper wire. You can use a 12v tester to figure out which is hot or use the schematic to figure out which too need to be jumped.

I'd look for a code next like posted one of those temp sensors could be flaky.

One other thing is I had my igntion switch changed a while back. What keyed me on this one was when I cranked it I wouldn't see any lights at all on the dash. It usually would go after 5-10 tries on and off the key.

Good luck.



wp

[snow_man_20]

ok it wouldn't do it today, i tryied it three times and started every time, i warmed it up shut it down then started it every 10 minutes, i guess that's good. I also have a new problem that might be related. today on my way to work my battery light came on, without the stereo on. I just had the head lights (low beam) and heater going. When the battery light turned off, about a minute after it turned on, the heater blower motor kicked up instently :confused: .

I'm finding that this car is more of a pain in the a$$ then my camaro was!

[snow_man_20]

ok i checked for codes, and there is none. it blinks ounce when i turn the key on and once when i turn the key off. that's it. i think thats normal. no codes while running either.

My list for today
test main relay (may just buy new one)
ect (tw) sensor test (may just buy new one)
change plugs to new ngk v-power (don't like the bosh X4)
Alternater and battery test
test coil (may just buy new msd or accell coil)

:mad: This is BS! If i don't get this i'm going to use up my tax check trying to get it fixed. If you have any ideas or suggestions, please post. It will be very much appreciated.

thank you

mike

[snow_man_20]

i haven't tested anything yet because i couldn't get home, stuck at schuks for an hour because it wouldn't start. I found that i get the clicks from the main relay but no fuel pump sound. I smell a strong gas smell from under the hood after trying to start it :confused: . I bought a new TW sensor and my car is cooling down now so i can change it. I'm starting to think the sensor is not the problem. We will see i guess.

[snow_man_20]

Ok I’m lost: sadwave: I just replaced the spark plugs and noticed it was flooded; every plug was bad, black and smelt like gas. The plugs are like a month old if that. I then replaced the TW sensor and drove it around ran great, thought it was fixed.

No only if I was that lucky. Got home shut it off and no start, FU#K this sucks!!! I don't know what to do. I can now hear the fuel pump and the two clicks before I try to start it, but no spark or fouled out. Either way no fire. I'm going to try the coil. I don't know what, else to do. I hate this shit.

Any ideas, I can see no one has posted on this post for a while so maybe no one knows. I would try the main relay but it’s getting gas, I don't know what else to say.

Mike

[Mac]

Check fuse #1 in the dash fuse panel. Make sure it is not loose, and the fuse contacts aren't spread apart.

[Oldblueaccord]

DO you have the stock coil or aftermarket?

Somebody else had same problem last month and it was his aftermarket coil going bad. The raw fuel deal is what reminded me of it.


wp

[snow_man_20]

Well i used to have a stock coil but i just changed it today to a msd coil. Ok, last night i reset the ecu and checked all fuses and there has been no prolblem starting hot or warm, i can start it at any temp. I really think it had to be a bad water temp sensor. I just changed my coil and tested every thing again. everything good. Even if it runs a little rich at start-up i think the hotter coil will burn it off. (mask the problem anyway)

It seem the water temp sensor was the part

I want to thank all the guys that helped me out
Oldblueaccord
carotman
Moodybluesr
88LXi/87CRXSi
Mac
all the input helped, it got me on the right track, helped me search for more information and HOPEFULLY got this problem fixed.

P.S. my battery problem with the light coming on every now and then was (i think) due to corroded battery conectors. Thay were the origanal conectors and about a 1/2 inch of the wires on the + and - from the conectors were corroded and brittle. replaced those cut the bad wire off and no problems.