help wiring subs

[Neuspeed87lx]

i need to know how to wire my subs .... i have 2 kicker comp vr 15 inch subs ... 4ohm each ... the amp that will be powering the subs is a XM-D400P5 sony mono 800 watt amp.... i need to put the subs in the box and thats what i need help wiring ... there are 2 negaitve posts and 2 positive posts on the back of each sub... thanks

[88accordalltheway]

if i were you, for starters, just hook all the positives(on the subs) to the positive output on the amp, and same with the negatives. I am a noob when it comes to ohms/impedence/resistance, and ive had my friends explain them to me many times, and despite the fact that im in calculus i still dont get them. I have a friend that likes to do crazy ass wireing, from sub to sub then to the amp. I dunno, check sounddomain....

[Roach412]

that amp is stable down to 2-ohms. with two 4-ohm subs, it's pretty easy to wire them to be run in 2-ohm.

basically...the lower the ohms are the harder your amp works to keep up. BUT, because it's a lower impedange (ohms) it allows the amplifier to supply MORE power! (watts)

http://www.termpro.com/articles/spkrz.html

that site gives details about the difference of wiring "in series" and "in parallel". by wiring your subs "in parallel" you'll be setting the impedance to 2-ohms, and driving your subs with the most power available.

i have a dual-voice-coil 10" eclipse sub being driven by a memphis mono amp. i have each voice coil (2 connectors +, -, per voice coil) wiring in parallel with the other. this makes my amp "see" a 2-ohm load, and delivers twice the wattage than if i were to just hook it up directly to the terminals. makes a HUGE difference in performance (both dB and quality)

hope that site helps out. they do have diagrams, but are a little small.

-Roach

p.s. think of it this way:
connect the + terminal of the amp to the + terminal of the first sub. now connect a wire from the + terminal of the first sub, to the + terminal to the second sub. do the same thing for the - terminal. you are no wired in parallel. (draw it if you need to!)

if you connect the + terminal of the amp to the + terminal of the first sub, then connect the - terminal of the first sub to the + terminal of the second sub, then connect the - terminal of the second sub to the - terminal of the amp, you'll be running in series. NOTE: if you run your current setup in series you will be generating an 8-ohm load, and your amp will only delived 1/2 of it's rated wattage at 4-ohms. in your case, that's 100watts RMS. not nearly enough to safely run 2 15" subs. you'll underpower and clip them.

[Neuspeed87lx]

cool thanks a lot guys .... good info roach thanks man .....

[Neuspeed87lx]

so wait im trying to draw things out here.... there are 4 terminals on the back of each sub... i would connect the + terminal of the first sub to the + of the amp .... then the other + on the 1st sub connect to the + of the 2nd sub then the same with the - ... but that still leaves me with one + and one - on the 2nd sub ...what do i do with those?

[Roach412]

ah, i just realized that your subs are also dual-voice-coils.

you now have two options in how you will get them hooked up.

i would keep it as simple as possible, and use only ONE SET of terminals PER SUB.

connect the wiring, like i said in my previous post, to only one set of the 2 terminals for each sub. it won't matter which.

http://www.lalena.com/audio/faq/wiring/parallel.gif

there ya go. just connect the wires at the terminals when you run from the first to the second sub. (they show in the image the wire "splitting" but you want a solid wire between each sub, diverging at the terminal post on the sub)

-Roach

[Neuspeed87lx]

so basicly what i do is .... i take a + from the 1st sub... run it to the + of the amp ...run a - from the same sub to the - of the amp... then do the same with the other sub? and leave 2 terminals from each sub not hooked up to anything ?

[Roach412]

you should have:
1 piece of wire going from the AMP+ to SUB(a)+
1 piece of wire going from the AMP- to SUB(a)-

1 piece of wire going from SUB(a)+ to SUB(b)+
1 piece of wire going from SUB(a)- to SUB(b)-

-Roach

[88accordalltheway]

so basicly what i do is .... i take a + from the 1st sub... run it to the + of the amp ...run a - from the same sub to the - of the amp... then do the same with the other sub? and leave 2 terminals from each sub not hooked up to anything ?
lol, thats what i said to do, only your forgetting one + and one - on each sub. IMO, thats not the best way because wtf would be the use of haveing DUAL voice coil, find out how to do one of those wierd series ones then youll be set.

[Vanilla Sky]

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=12855

merry christmas...

and if you have a dual voice coil driver, hook up BOTH coils... you can either get a 2 ohm load or an 8 ohm load from each driver, meaning you can only get a 1 ohm load, a 4 ohm load, or a 16 ohm load from those subs... that's assuming you are running a single channel... you can attain 2 2 ohm loads, 2 8 ohm loads, or 4 4ohm loads with 2 dual voice coil drivers, making the total ways you can wire them up like 6 ways... that's why you have dual voice coil drivers...

[88accordalltheway]

Derick, i want to have your babies. ty

[Roach412]

there would be no benefit in using extra coils. they are there for adaptability for a wide range of systems. primarily they are there so that a single-sub setup would be able to reach a 2-ohm load to best fit a mono (or bridged) amplifier.

the goal for best performance for that amplifier is to get a 2-ohm load.

-Roach

[Neuspeed87lx]

im confused

[Roach412]

use only ONE coil (1 positive/negative pair of terminals) from each sub. you will not need the other ones. they are only there in case you were to have a setup that may require more advanced wiring, or had an amp with different specs. KISS = Keep It Simple Stupid

in your case, your amp will want to have a 2-ohm load to operate at it's best performance.

-Roach

[Neuspeed87lx]

ok.... so i would .... take the + from sub a ...run a wire inside the box to the connector on the side of the box.... and then run a wire from the + of the amp to that connector on the side of the box.... then do the same for the - ... but then how would i connect the 2 subs together ... there in a sealed box seperate from eachother.... soory if im an idiot

[Vanilla Sky]

roach, please stop speading misinformation... you use both coils...

[Neuspeed87lx]

wait i can connect the subs together on the same terminal where the amp is connected to the sub right ? that would be wired in parallel?

[Vanilla Sky]

man, read through the site linked in the post i linked to... it will tell you about all of this...

[Roach412]

the math speaks for itself.

2 15" subs are going to work like poop on 200 watts. the compvrs are spec'ed to run on 500w RMS.

running his amp (200w RMS @ 4ohms) will produce 100w RMS @ 8ohms to each sub. very underpowered.

running his amp (400w RMS @ 2ohms) will produce 400w RMS @ 2ohms to each sub. nearly matching their specifications.

underpowering your speakers is the easiest, and fastest way to destroy them. not to mention that it's not exactly sony's top-model amplifier. it's listed wattage is most likely not even it's true output.

putting less power to more coils is just wasting it. it's a coil, not an entirely new sound-producing speaker.

-Roach

p.s. my crack was garaunteed to be good!

[Vanilla Sky]

your crack may be good, but your information is garbage...

read the site in the post i linked to... every scrap of what you are saying is pure misinformation, and it's a dangerous thing to spread...

[Roach412]

it's not misinformation, i'm trying to explain in simple terms to someone who's asked for help.

throwing a website up and saying "understand that" really doesn't help somebody who doesn't understand the basic principles. it's not his fault he doesn't know something, we all started there.

the simplest way to get a reasonable amount of power out of his amplifier (without risking him wiring something wrong and setting it to a 1-ohm-mono amp-killing-load) is to wire 2 coils in parallel. now that he's mentioned that it would be difficult to wire a dual-chambered box in a complicated fashion, i'd suggest he wire the box terminals in parallel (as long as the subs themselves are wired as individual coils).

Neuspeed87lx, if you want to run them somewhat underpowered, please do. i'm not here to tell you how to set up your stuff. my suggestion is there to save your subs, and your amp, from a possible short life, while keeping it as simple as possible. if they clip at higher volumes, you'll need to wire them differently or purchase a more robust amplifier (or save on the volume).

let's start all over.
Neuspeed87lx, wire the + from the amp to the + on the first terminal of your box. now run a wire from the - on the first to the + on the second terminal. run the final wire from the - terminal to the - on your amp. see how this sounds to you. if you like it, keep it.

-Roach

[Vanilla Sky]

underpowering drivers WILL NOT KILL THEM... if that was true, then if you ever turned the volume on the deck down, you'd blow your speakers...

clipping is what you're confusing with underpowering... and amp clips when it puts out voltage from the main rails of the amp, directly through to the speakers... like switched DC...

with DVC drivers, one coil is rated at half of the rating for the driver... if his sub is rated at 500 watts RMS, then each coil is rated at 250 watts RMS... i would either wire each driver's coils in series, then the drivers in parallel... that would give him a 4 ohm load, and have a pretty simple setup... for this, you would wire:
coil 1 negative to coil positive on each driver
amp positive to coil 1 positive, then to coil 2 positive on the second driver
amp negative to coil 2 negative, then to coil 2 negative on the other driver

4 ohm load on the amp, so you'll get 200 watts...

if your subs are new, trade them in for single voice coil models, or if the amp is new, trade it in for an amp stable at 1 ohm

[Roach412]

driving underpowered at high levels is one cause of clipping. i understand they are different things, but they are/can be directly related.

clipping can (and usually is) be a direct consequence of underpowering of a driver. the disagreement is on the means, not the end-product.

it is possible to clip any driver, using any amplifier; high quality or not.

underpowering a driver under heavy load/stress will kill them. and kill them fast. subwoofers tend to be abused, and as such, caution should always be used. my #1 suggestion: purchase a high-quality amplifier. if that's not feasible, know your limits.
:sad2:

-Roach

[Vanilla Sky]

http://www.bcae1.com/2ltlpwr.htm

explanation on clipping... it's not from underpowering a driver, it's from asking too much from an amp...

[Roach412]

i never once said it would blow the speaker. there's dozens of ways to break/damage/destroy a driver.

here's the scenario i'm avoiding:
power subs w/ "less than ideal" power (termed underpowered).
user turn volume up because they want it to be louder. due to speakers' ohms and the amplifier's setup the current level of playback is at a low level eventhough the amplifier is currently being driven at it's near-maximum level (sensitivity comes in here. comp vrs are not exactly the most efficient of subs, but not terrible). continue turning volume up...begin clipping.

amplifier is being driven too hard, because the initial power availability is not sufficient. hence the term "underpowered". the user does not a powerful enough amplifier, or it is setup inefficiently.

Arguing online is like the Special Olympics.
No matter who wins ...
You're still retarded!

take opinions and suggestions for what you will.

-Roach

[Vanilla Sky]

i never once said it would blow the speaker. there's dozens of ways to break/damage/destroy a driver.



underpowering your speakers is the easiest, and fastest way to destroy them. not to mention that it's not exactly sony's top-model amplifier. it's listed wattage is most likely not even it's true output.
you don't say?

his very best option is to return the subs for a pair of 4 ohm single voice coil model comp VR subs... that's the best solution here...

and as to the "arguing online" comment, that isn't true here... arguing here affects peoples' wallets and thier cars... i'm just trying to cut down on the misinformation here... and if this was to be taken in that context, then you are referring to yourself as an idiot...

i posted the link to that site because it is full of information you need to know before installing your own stereo equipment... none of it is above high school level of understanding, and what is anything near "complicated" is explained in detail... that site answer the question at hand more than once...

and you may want to consider calling someone an idiot a pretty fast way to get a boot... i edited my post after i actually gave it thought... it only sat on the server for about 45 seconds...

be glad i'm not one of the more vicious members around here...

[Roach412]

blowing the coil is a sinlge way of destroying.
destroying is not necessarily blowing the coil.
never said it would cause a blown coil.

arguing is stupid. discussion is not. name-calling is a by-product of arguing. never called anyone anything. you've implied it though.

Neuspeed87lx, i apologize for this discussion going way way beyond what you originally asked for.

Vanilla Sky, you tend to misunderstand just about anything i post...seems you seek out to try and force your opinions and put-down others. for that, i'm sorry i couldn't better describe what i was trying to help Neuspeed with. by creatively working with his current resources he wouldn't need to work with returning/exchanging what he has...or maybe even so far as to purchasing new equipment. if he shows interest in getting newer or better suited equipement then yes, go get it Neuspeed. it'll make your setup matched, and much easier to set up.

go to a car audio shop or retailer. talk with some of their technicians. most are extremely easy to talk to, and will be willing to show you what works, and why things are set up the way they are. they also will be able to give you a professional suggestion based on your current equipment, and budget, as well as your ultimate goals of what you want out of it.

-Roach

[/end]

[Neuspeed87lx]

well i used to have this same equipment in my last car.... but it got stolen .... the only difference was that the subs were 2 ohms not 4 ohms ... i got both subs new for 50 bucks so i had to buy them for that price... but they cannot be returned.... i never had any problems with my amp or the subs.... they were very loud ... thanks for the info guys and dont worry about things getting off track ... they usually find a way to do that here :) i wired the amp and put my cd player in and everything then realized i had never wierd the subs together.... someone has always assembled the box and the subs for me...

[Neuspeed87lx]

ok i just talked to a buddie of mine that works at a car audio store .... he told me to do this .........

on the first sub.. connect the + to the + and the - to the - on the back of the sub.... then he said 2 of the terminals with have white dots in the middle of them .... which they do .... run a wire from the + with the white dot on it to the side of the box... then take the - with the white dot on it and connect it to the side of the box.... then connect the + from the side of the box to the + of the amp... and the - side of the box to the amp.... then do the same thing with the other sub .... sound good ?

[Roach412]

if you like how they sound, then you're going in the right direction.

if you ever hear a clipping sound, STOP playing the subs. if they run loud enough for you, awesome!

you got a nice deal on the compvrs. i used to have 2 12"s in my old car back in-the-day. i really really liked the performance from the compvr line. awesome SQ, plus the added bonus of having a solid SPL output. with your old ones, it would be really easy to set it up in a more "compatible" configuration for you amp, but the one you have now will work fine (if you like how it sounds as-is, and don't drive them too hard).

good luck with your setup!

-Roach