Massive efi problem

[hondamanlxi]

I got my motor back together and today i had to have my car towed home after it stalled and wouldnt restart. Heres a list of symptoms:

- hard to start (almost have to floor it, sputters while starting)
- no idle
- floods out and wont restart
- injectors good (resistance,cracks)
- plenty of spark
- no codes
- misses randomly
- runs rich enough to smell gas
- ecu appears to be working properly
- no vacuum leaks
i drove it for 2 days b/f this happend. It will run as long as you keep your foot on the gas. I really need some help guys. This is gotta be some off-the-wall sensor problem.

[shepherd79]

did you put vacuum lines back on right? sounds like you messed up on a few of them

[hondamanlxi]

no i only have two lines. How could i screw that up?

so i guess basicly: what would make an efi car flood out, have no idle, and not restart(prob from fouled plugs)

[hondamanlxi]

you know? with all that head/block shaving(.07 total), i bet the heads not torqued right. I bet the head gasket is blown...hmmm

[danronian]

If the gasket it blown your oil and coolant should be a milkshake, that is a sure way to tell. It's the same torque process no matter how much is shaved off though, I don't really understand. But with the head being shaved maybe there is too much play in the timing belt?(not sure, just a guess) Possibly the belt slipped a few teeth somewhere and that's your prob, my friend's belt slipped a few teeth on his car once and it only ran, with no power, with the thing floored. But he broke half of his valves, luckily it was under warranty.

[shepherd79]

what do you mean you have only 2 vacuum lines?
what happen to the rest of them?
you need all of them for a car to run properly.

since you shaved your head, try adjusting timing with distributor.

[hondamanlxi]

hahaha, no you dont. vacuum advance and MAP are the only ones you need! Its no timing issue, you have to READ! i said it ran fine for two days and then suddenly...

[rjudgey]

the amount you shaved off the block and head? How much is that in mm's? If it's more than the thickness of the head gasket ( the amount of the block) and if you didn't match the combustion chambers to the block or shave some of the piston crown off the top than your pistons might have been hitting the head or valves maybe? What make pistons did you use?
I would pull the head sounds like valve or HG problem to me, i doubt if pistons have a hole in them, but if they do, all you have to do is drop the sump and pull the pistons out the top, then get new rods and pistons put back in and be carefull putting them back in you don't want to mark the crank journal.
I bet it's just your HG howmuch throttle was you giving it when it went?

[hondamanlxi]

its been shaved 1.28mm head and .5mm block. The necessary headwork has been done to accomidate the pistons now coming over the top of the block. I was accelerating when my car died, nothing extreme though

[HondaBoy]

when i first read this, a skipped tooth on the T belt came to mind. shouldnt happen to a new belt though, but possible. if you can, check the timing before you go tearing the head off. could that also possiblely be the distributor somehow was knocked off its correct possition? maybe the mounting was loose? who knows, i just wouldnt want to take the head off before checking stuff like that.

[hondamanlxi]

no its in time and the dist is ok. Why would waste your time posting a dumb problem like that? I just did a comp check and it was an average of 60psi across all 4. I dont see how it could be anything but a blown gasket.

[shepherd79]

you have 60psi across all 4 cylinders?
dude, pull the head, sounds like you have some major problem.

[smufguy]

hondamanlxi, i think u are right on target. pull the head to inspect it. U are almost 50psi less than the minimum compression on the cylinders. efis dont flood and u know it by now. I think ur questions will be answered if you pull the head out and go from there. If any, i would say other than the head gasket, the Timing belt tensioner might have broken loose casuing a major slack and skipping in the timing.

171psi normal cyl compression, 142psi is minimum, and deviation is about 28psi

[hondamanlxi]

well im sure its in time b/c when i let the gas evaporate from the cylinders overnight, i can get it to start and after it self-cleans the plugs(that and i checked ;) ), it runs smooth but with no idle and no chance of restart. I cant tell if i has power or not b/c its not really driveable.

edit: thats how i know all valves/pistons are fine so that really narrows it down....

[hondamanlxi]

what exactly does a blown head gasket look like? i cant see anything obviously wrong with it...

all valves and pistons are 100% ok

[smufguy]

what exactly does a blown head gasket look like? i cant see anything obviously wrong with it...

all valves and pistons are 100% ok

There should be tears or tear between the cylinder ring and coolant passages or oil passages.

[adams86lxi]

my friends car did the same thing it sounds like and we could figure it out because everything seemed fine. But it turned out it was the crankshaft timming belt gear. The key in the keyway had some how tweaked itself and ripped in half but stayed on and just moved abunch about the equivelant that 5 teeth would of done if the belt slipped, And threw the cam timming way off. Check that if you havent already. It sounds exactly like when my timming belt skipped a few teeth.

[shepherd79]

here is what mine looked like. i had 0 psi compression between cylinders 3 and 4.
http://webpages.shepherd.edu/abetke01/gasket.jpg

[Oldblueaccord]

its been shaved 1.28mm head and .5mm block. The necessary headwork has been done to accomidate the pistons now coming over the top of the block. I was accelerating when my car died, nothing extreme though


thats .050 off the head are you sure. That sounds like a lot. Did you clay up the motor and check the valve to piston clearance. They might have kissed a little.

EDIT
Just to add the book calls for no more than .008 off the head but thats for a stock set up of course.

wp

[danronian]

Sometimes a blown head gasket looks like a little inconformity in the color of the sealing surfaces, at least that is how it was on my malibu, it was real hard to find until I looked at it for a real long time. Could the head possibly have been torqued inproperly?

[hondamanlxi]

1)My head gasket wasnt blown. Iregardless, it got a felpro and a good torque! (i think i tested wrong the first time(not WOT), now its well over 100psi)
2)all mechanical parts were as good as the day we put it together
3)yes we clayed it,we also set the head on the block minus the gasket to see if it was close(its not)
4) i went ahead and fired it up and ran the exact same.... revs up strong as hell, but wont idle and wont restart. If you pull the fuel pump fuse and turn it over it will finally burn off the gas and die. Then you can pop the fuse back in and get a restart most times!
You cannot tell me this fucker aint flooding out....
-IT WILL RUN ON INDEFINATLY AS LONG AS THE THROTTLE CABLE IS FORCED OPEN(forced idle)
5)Both MAP/TPS were replaced with known good ones (freebie so why not)
6)Hella rich exhaust fumes but no real carbon/smoke
7)Valve timing IS perfect / belt tight
8)fuel pressure is normal (actually tryed turning it down)


thanks alot guys, i know well figure this 'ish out!

[Mantis88LX]

Hey chris, here is a list of some things to check .......

Idle adjustment screw
Throttle body gasket
Intake manifold gasket
Loose vaccum hoses
Leaking injectors

Ill come by later and try to help you.

[danronian]

Intake manifold gasket - just because you have the different intake manifold, at least I think you still do, this could possibly be the issue.
Could it be malfunctioning 02 sensors?

[hondamanlxi]

no its not a vacuum leak(gasket or line), that would be too easy. An o2 sensor problem wouldnt be this severe either (plus no codes)

[hondamanlxi]

it was one of the two coolant temp sensors! lol! thanks alot guys!

apparently, the coolant temp sensors PARTIALLY control basic injector duration. With those sensors reading wrong it WAS flooding the car out at an idle.

moral of the story: efi cars can flood out... and its the coolant temp sens;)

[Neuspeed87lx]

[QUOTE=shepherd79]here is what mine looked like. i had 0 psi compression between cylinders 3 and 4.

i wonder why ? :)

[hondamanlxi]

You know, mystery problems like this should get archived so others dont waste a week trying to figure it out!

[smufguy]

You know, mystery problems like this should get archived so others dont waste a week trying to figure it out!

or put it as archives and list the possible solutions.

ps: but i swear there are a lot of dumb noobs who fail to hit the search and make dumb repetitive threads and those never get deleated.

[Oldblueaccord]

or put it as archives and list the possible solutions.

ps: but i swear there are a lot of dumb noobs who fail to hit the search and make dumb repetitive threads and those never get deleated.


Glad you got it fixed.

I think this has happened to a few peeps in the last few months.


wp

[adams86lxi]

it was one of the two coolant temp sensors! lol! thanks alot guys!

apparently, the coolant temp sensors PARTIALLY control basic injector duration. With those sensors reading wrong it WAS flooding the car out at an idle.

moral of the story: efi cars can flood out... and its the coolant temp sens;)


damn, glad you fixed it. Thats weird because i dont even have my ect (engine coolant temp) sensor pluged in ever since i did the swap and i havent had any problems.

[rjudgey]

whats your compression like now? HAve you done a 500 miles yet? don't forget to check again, should be about 180-200psi on a run in new engine with the rings gapped correctly off course, i've had 220psi on some of my re-builds. Glad you worked out how to use the compression tester!! Never mind at least your well drilled in gasket replacement and you have a quality gasket in their now!! What you using to keep the cam timing at 0 or are you running a few degrees retarded for better top end? Glas you got it fixed hows it running now?