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adams86lxi
02-25-2005, 04:25 PM
Alright as some of you know. Im starting a turbo b20 project. Im also doing this as cheap as i can but still the best that i can do for the most part. Im starting this thread so you guys can see how im doing this if you want to try it for your self and also for the people who have already turboed there cars to tell me what im doing wrong. So this is going to be a big information thread lol.

Alright ive started with a td04 turbo from a wrx. I probbaly should of gone with something like a t3 since about every manifold you buy will bolt up to one but remember im learning as i go lol. Im planning on running 5 psi no more until i get the right fuel management and a nice intercooler.

I started with a cheap ebay ssautochrome h22 turbo manifold. I got this one because the stud holes didnt seem to far off and only the 2 inner runner were a tad bit off. I got the manifold and discoverd that it needed a little more hacking then i thought it would but i should be okay. I also discoverd with all the wrong tools how a pain in the ass cutting threw stainless steel is!!!!! Im using a 12:1 ratio fmu for now. My car runs real rich as it is right now since i dont have the ect sensor pluged in so im helping this will help me out a little too for now. Im using a external tial imitation wastegate with a 5psi spring. Im using check valves to trick the map sensor. Im still working on various flanges that will mate my turbo to the mani and every where else i need them. I havent got to line anything up yet in the engine bay but it looks like it should all fit just real tight. Im waiting to put everything in once i get it all together and have everything infront of me that i need.


Here are some pics of what i have so far. I also have a DSM BOV comming from ebay.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/turbo%20stuff/100_0473.jpg


Thats how much i had to cut out of the manifold. I know it looks haggerd but im still working on it. Im going to use washers to hold the sides where i had to cut all the way threw. It should move around to much because the 2 upper holes on the out side were dead on so im hoping they will keep it from moving around. Porting out the 2 inner runner seemed harder then i thought since i started making them bigger and then found out that ssautochrome had the runners go all the way threw to the inside side of the flange.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/turbo%20stuff/100_0474.jpg


BTW: does anyone know if i did this right? I think i did but im just curious. This is the home made check valve map sensor trick. (aka missing link) One end is going to connect up to the throttle body and the other end to the map sensor vaccum line.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/turbo%20stuff/100_0475.jpg

895spdforfree
02-25-2005, 05:47 PM
well since no one has commented, im just gonna say keep up the good work, i hope u dyno it i wanna see the numbers!!

snow_man_20
02-25-2005, 05:58 PM
Well i don't know how you got budget and turbo in the same statment, but keep it up.

adams86lxi
02-25-2005, 06:24 PM
Well i don't know how you got budget and turbo in the same statment, but keep it up.

lol, well so far im only at the 500$ mark.

adams86lxi
02-25-2005, 09:43 PM
BTW: I was planning on using the fuel line in the picture for the oil feed line. Its 5/16 id. Would this work alright? Or is it to big and it wouldnt build up enough oil pressure???

AccordEpicenter
02-25-2005, 10:38 PM
fuel line will blow up, it wasnt designed to see 60psi of hot oil in it. I think napa has some high pressure tranny oil line that works good. Hmm i think 5/16" isnt too bad but id highly reccomend some good oil lines, its worth the peace of mind and not dumping all your oil... I run braided stainless Earl's lines from my stealthmode performance oil lines, -4an, it also came with a T fitting for the oil pressure sensor in the block, and an oil return line and fitting etc -10an(all of it was like $80). Dont use brass T fittings in the block, the tend to fatigue out and break off (leaving the end in the block... ugh). With the checkvalves you should be able to stick one end of the hose in your mouth and the other end pinch off with your hand and blow and have the air come out of the checkvalves.

mykwikcoupe
02-25-2005, 11:29 PM
Im with accordepicenter. Its more expensib=ve but worth the cost to go stainless. Im not too sure about the turbo your using since Ive never heard of it but you may want to look into a rhb15 from a eclipse/talon. Most people junk them to upgrade. Also the t3 from a ford turbocoupe works well for a budget biuld.

A word of thought from a person whos read alot but hasnt actually done it. Please take this with a grain of salt.

The FMU units are cheap for a reason. They are unreliable and are hard to tune. If you look you can find a s-afc for a few bills. For something that low of psi its be perfect. Id offer you mine since Im probably not going to use it but Im not 100% sure just yet.

Oh and if the 12:1 doesnt work out Ive got a 10:1 collecting dust

RobT5580
02-26-2005, 07:02 AM
Just remember to brace that manifold and there are tons of pics on h-t and HMT. And make sure you have a boost gauge to watch for boost spike on that wastegate. TunerToys makes a really good oil supply fitting. As for the manifold it helps to have the right tools im glad my car is at my friends shop because the edelbrock victor x intake manifold i had to do a lot of work for it to fit.

Other than that keep collecting parts and you should be there soon. Its nice to see someone not breaking the bank like i did and should be nice to see how it turns out. The H22 man still seems like a nice option and its really minor for an off the shelf part.

And Justin should be able to give you pointers on the check valves since he used the vacuum advance setup on his for some time. Its basically the same setup so i dont see why it would work the same in your situation.

AccordEpicenter
02-26-2005, 10:07 AM
yeah the fmu isnt great but hes running it at 5psi temporarily (should be ok at 5psi) but at as early as 7psi youd most likely detonate, especially using no timing control (statically retarded). Ive heard good things (surprisingly) about the fake tial-SSAC wastegate, they seem to be ok. His turbo is just fine for low boost

adams86lxi
02-26-2005, 11:59 AM
Thanks for the info guys.

mykwikcoupe: My car runs real rich right now with the ect sensor unpluged. That and the fmu which i made sure i got the vortech one should be fine until i get good fuel management. Im not running any more boost till i get a safc, intercooler, and a msd btm. This is just a temporary setup for 5 psi. Also i already have this turbo so theis is the one im going to use. Thanks for the info though.

AccordEpicenter: alright cool i did the check valve trick fine then.


Rob: The maifold is braced all over it. I guess ssautoshit changed there design alittle to compensate for all the broken manifolds they had.


And everyone: Ok the fuel line is for fuel injection so it designed for high pressure, but if thats the wrong way to go then i wont do it. Can you guys send me some links for everything i would need for the oil feed lines? Ive looked at the steel braided on the internet before but im all confused on what the sizes are and what kind of connections i would need etc. Any help would be appreciated! THANKS!!!

AccordEpicenter
02-26-2005, 12:15 PM
This is the one i used:

Stealthmode Performance (http://www.stealthmodeperformance.com/oil.shtml)

http://www.stealthmodeperformance.com/Stainless.htm

He uses earls lines and fittings and the oil line T is a great part, the best ive seen. Its one hell of a nice kit and includes the oil drain etc. Im not really sure what your ihi turbo uses for an oil inlet and drain, you might have to make up an adaptor...

Elijah
02-26-2005, 01:48 PM
I have the same FMU I succesfully ran 10psi all last summer with it and know problems. Let me know when you want a BTM I will give you mine for cheap. I could have gave you the FMU for cheap to I was gonna post the stuff for sale to guess I should have ohwell.

AccordEpicenter
02-26-2005, 02:01 PM
elijah how much timing were you pulling out on your BTM?

Elijah
02-26-2005, 02:13 PM
elijah how much timing were you pulling out on your BTM?


To tell you the truth I havent even had a chance to use it. I hooked it up the last track day of the year and my clutch was slipping so it came right home.

AccordEpicenter
02-26-2005, 02:17 PM
me either... i was running static retarded timing (shitty) did you back the timing out manually like i did?

system-f
02-28-2005, 09:57 AM
You really need a timing control of some sort at 5psi no intercooled. You can retard 10 degrees, but it will be slower at lower boost. I used the MSD boost control on my B20A.. Make sure that your exhuast ports match up as close as possible to the ports on the manifold, otherwise your just wasting precious energy.


Your fish tank map hack does look right, shouldn't be able to suck through the vavles, but can blow.


You WILL NEED a high flow fuel pump at 5psi..my engine was unhappy and unsafe because the stock pump could not supply the flow at preasure even with only 5psi. I got the holley pump I think for an integra..the one Tom Coleman sold with his kit. (it's been awhile)

Here are some examples of what you should see, actually better since these dyno charts are with the old fuel pump. This was actually a little less than 5psi.


http://www.ntpog.org/dyno/Keith-power.jpg

http://www.ntpog.org/dyno/Keith-torque.jpg

RobT5580
02-28-2005, 10:28 AM
system-f, Do you have any more info/pictures on your b20a setup. Its nice to see a few others working on different setups to see what works good. Iv definately been the test dummy for all my stuff but my research seemed to pay off.

system-f
02-28-2005, 10:51 AM
I will look for some old pics...mine was pretty ghetto and I sold that car some time ago with hopes to do better on an A motor.

It was a basic low cost turbo setup. I was the first to purchase Tom Coleman's complete turbo kit for the 3g lude...the manifold was his newer log style and it had a T3 on it. I had 2.5" exhaust all the way back , flowmaster 50 series (no fart pipes here), and a cat ordered out of JC Whitney. I am not sure if Zdyne is still doing the ECUs for the 3g lude but I would recommend anyone to go that route, the computer issues I had with everyday driveablity were jsut stupid and I got sick of dealing with it nor did I have the money to upgrade. Or a homebrew chip would work..something to get the computer some maps so it understands what boost is and to add extra fuel and retard the timing if needed..

I beat the living crap out of my B20A, at times it would detonate (due to my carelessness) when I first hooked up the turbo it peaked at 10psi due to a vacuum line failure. When I finished with the JDM B20A it was pulled and sold to a guy wanting to rebuild a 3g lude...the block had lots of carbon build up from running rich but other than that all internals were in good shape. It's one tough closed deck aluminum block.

If you have an specifics PM me..and I will try to dig up those pics.

I do have this pic of a pissed off mustang owner... This drag track is notorious for making fun of import cars and I had some fun.


http://www.ntpog.org/gallery/stills/maddoxvstang.jpg

Robs89LXi
02-28-2005, 01:25 PM
System-f, are you planning to boost your A20? If so, what are you planning to do for engine management?

adams86lxi
02-28-2005, 03:25 PM
alright thanks for the help guys with this. Im working on looking for the lines now.

Im also having trouble finding a silicone adapter for something like 1 3/4 to something like 2 to 2 1/2 either should work. I need one for the turbo but cant find one.

Cheeseburger
02-28-2005, 04:37 PM
nice bro i see that your dad finally got to you into puting a turbo in your car. When do you think you will have the turbo up and runing?

adams86lxi
02-28-2005, 05:14 PM
nice bro i see that your dad finally got to you into puting a turbo in your car. When do you think you will have the turbo up and runing?


lol, yea he is the one that orignally wanted me to put one in. Funny part is he aint helping me worth a shit, not even my good car buddies that i help them put stuff in there car 24/7 are helping me. It really pisses me off. The only person helping me out is this guy named scott that lives a few blocks down from me. He is in his mid 40s and is really cool, i wouldnt be able to get this done if it wasnt for him. What really made me get one though was going to the local meets up's around here and everyone and there mom being turbo but me, and i mean everything turboed from bugs to bmw's. Everytime i turn around i hear and bov lol, it made me jelous lol. I just think how cool it will be when i roll up to the meets with the turbo and people see a 86 honda accord roll up and they here the bov! I want to start putting everything in very soon. Im just out of cash and waiting for a few more parts before i try to get everything in. Im going to hopefully have it in soon though.

Cheeseburger
02-28-2005, 05:19 PM
cause springbreak is coming up and it would be a good time to have the dyno meet

AccordEpicenter
02-28-2005, 07:25 PM
adam are you going intercooled or not? If youre not you need to pull out alot more timing like the other guy mentioned in his setup... if youre intercooled (strongly reccomended) you could get away with pulling out probably 3-5 degrees timing at 5psi

adams86lxi
02-28-2005, 10:42 PM
adam are you going intercooled or not? If youre not you need to pull out alot more timing like the other guy mentioned in his setup... if youre intercooled (strongly reccomended) you could get away with pulling out probably 3-5 degrees timing at 5psi


dont know yet. I was going to run it un-intercooled for a little while till i could get one, but im just going to have to sit and wait. I might be getting a friends old one but i dont know yet. How much should i retard it for 5psi if it dont have a intercooler right away???

system-f
03-01-2005, 07:38 AM
Retard 10 degrees min.. but you REALLY NEED BOOST CONTROL like the msd box.. Retarded timing puts more heat in the exhaust not to mention the extra preassure and heat from the turbo the exhaust vavles will see. A variable timing control system like the MSD box with an in-dash controler would be the best bet and mine was only $180.



System-f, are you planning to boost your A20? If so, what are you planning to do for engine management?

Yes, right now a friend is looking at giving me his 88 LXI hatchback which happens to be the same color as my 87 LXI Hatchback (weird). The 88 is an auto which needs to be turned into a 5spd first...then I am not sure which one will get the turbo, probably the 87 since it's paint is faded and it looks like a POS. Nothing better than a 2500lb sleeper!

Hmm, as for the turbo setup, I really like the setup that adams is doing here and will probably start off low budget. I have a little bit of tig welding under my belt so I might try and build a manifold, although purchasing one and converting it like adams has done would be easier.

turbo will probably be a T3 and move to a T3/4 later on.
at first I will go with a fuel riser system and MSD boost control to see exactly how bad it runs... I might stay with that for awhile, but eventually want to convert over to a chipable ecu, chip it, and burn my own chips. My current engine has 260k on it and runs too good, but i think under the 8psi I plan to run on the engine intercooled of course that it won't last all that long unless I just run it richer than dog chit..then i might get 30k more before the rings let go. I really want to build an A motor and since I have the local machine shop around here that does a lot of custom and strange import motor work I think I can get it done. The treatment they can do to the rods alone is amazing... find someone to make me some lower compression pistons... maybe even try to build a crank girdle. I am not sure...it's all in the future and on hold for my 1st love..

http://www.texasnissantrucks.com/system-f/side_view.jpg

Robs89LXi
03-01-2005, 08:11 AM
Sounds good. By the way, nice to see another Texan; welcome aboard.

adams86lxi
03-01-2005, 10:24 PM
im guessing im going to need colder plugs too then. Where should i get them at? Would Autozone have colder ones? I need some for a 88-89 prelude thats what works on the b20a.

adams86lxi
03-01-2005, 10:26 PM
and damn, im still waiting for my stupid bov. The guy hasent even shipped it out and it has been 11 days since i payed for it. It keeps saying he needs to accept the paypal payment but he claims he has. Grrrrrrrrrr i want that shit!

AccordEpicenter
03-01-2005, 10:34 PM
yeah youll need colder plugs if going unintercooled... look around even online

system-f
03-02-2005, 06:19 AM
If you have a napa auto parts, go there Adams. Napa guys are usually much more helpful. I forgot what the colder range is for the B20A motor but it was listed in my haynes manual for my prelude.. when I get home I will see if I still own that thing.

RobT5580
03-02-2005, 06:40 AM
I think the 6's maybe 7's are Napa#1095 NGK# BCPR6EY-N-11 but if you want a higher number they will call NGK and get the napa# on the phone since they dont use NGK numbers. I would do that soon since i had to order mine since its not a common plug. That is not the irrodium plug im running now so if you want better plugs ask for the irrodium version but theyre like $30 for the set.

adams86lxi
03-12-2005, 03:44 PM
alright after some problems with ebay i finally got my bov on the way.

Im listening to you guys and i have decided im going to get a fmic. I dont want to blow this engine up right away. I want a front mount but i have no idea how you turbo guys here fit that thing up in the front there. Also does anyone have any good dimensions for one that will fit good? Now remember im not going to run crazy boost so a smaller front mount will work fine.

Now i got a question. I was going to use my cold air intake the exact way it is right now with some better clamps and hoses. But i was thinking maybe i could use this http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=7960712940&category=38634 http://i6.ebayimg.com/01/i/01/bd/f3/2f_1_sb.JPG

I was thinking i could just connect the one end of this to where my cold air goes into the bumber and maybe this silicone tubing would give me alittle flex to go from the cold air to the intercooler and the same for the other side. Just run piping to the holes in the body on both sides and then get some of these and flex them alittle to connect to the intercooler? Will these things give me any flex???


Also if someone is selling a intercooler or has a link to some cheap ones let me know!

RobT5580
03-12-2005, 07:39 PM
The IC is a pain in the ass to work out and i would say mine is pretty much as big as you can go before you have to do some major cutting. Granted i still had to do some cutting with mine but it fits nicely behind the bumper.

As for those tubes i would think you can use it but dont quote me on that but i know factory cars use some but relatively short ones.

smufguy
03-13-2005, 09:41 AM
adam, your best bet is to get the aluminized exhaust tubing from JCW or Summit and doing it on ur own and get silicone couplers and use the high pressure hose clamps.

I dont recommend the use of just all silicone tubing since they flex and they are not bendable like u think u might. They have re-infoced weave on them also, u need to bolt the Charge pipes down so that they dont move.

AccordEpicenter
03-13-2005, 10:00 AM
theyll give you a little flex but not much. if you need to get a silicone hump transition. I dont have one and neither does anybody else i know... but if you need one, get one. Use some aluminized u or J bends. The situation that rob described describes my experience with the intercooler to a T

adams86lxi
03-13-2005, 12:57 PM
hmm, Hey rob what are the dimensions on your intercooler?? And does anyone have any websites with good prices for one?

I was thinking about getting one from johnny race car but i think there 5 inch tall one is like 33 inches long. That seems to long!

AccordEpicenter
03-13-2005, 04:09 PM
the johnny racecar one is just fine... i used one from

www.speedpartsrus.com

click on catalog, then scroll down and click on intercoolers,

I have the first one listed in the box, the street show intercooler 31x6x3

handmade internally finned great workmanship

I think that the main difference between JRC and and custom coach is that JRC uses cut down used cores (i think) and custom coaches are new... not sure if there is any significant difference between the 2

adams86lxi
03-13-2005, 06:58 PM
alright cool. I got some stainless steel -4an line, i just ordered from ebay. Now i need to find a oil feed adapter. I need a -4an male to a 10mm x 1.5 male adapter. Does anyone know where i can find one of those???? I found one on a sight but it is out of stock!

http://www.turbo-supply.com/i/misc/car_575.jpg
Thats what it looks like.


Also i was talking to this guy that works at autozone that has a 12 second eclipse and he was checking out everything i was doing with my car and he told me that even though my turbo was meant to be oil and water cooled, he said i didnt need to have the water part hooked up at all? He said he has left his open on all his turbos and never had a problem. Is this true? what do you guys think? I remember reading it somewhere you could do that but i dont know?

AccordEpicenter
03-13-2005, 07:09 PM
yeah you can leave the water not hooked up... the turbo lasts longer when you have the water hooked up but it doesnt really hurt it if you dont have it hooked up, just wait like 30 seconds to let the turbo cool down before turning the car off, the oil will bring the turbo tempurature down so it doesnt coke up the centersection of the turbo

smufguy
03-14-2005, 06:37 AM
adam, check one of the old turbo threads, we were talking about this fitting that went right where the oil pressure switch is, and had an outlet to feed the turbo. U might also wanna get an external oil cooler.

Turbo timers will save u lots of headache. I have seen my freind at work get a brand new Blitz and Greddy for 50 and 75 bux each.

adams86lxi
03-16-2005, 02:43 PM
alright i finnaly got my dsm bov in after having to wait like a month for it! I gave it a coat of flat black paint and took off that nasty greed color the bov was.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/turbo%20stuff/100_0514.jpg




Now this is the stuff i need if anyone knows a good site for these things let me know!



Intercooler-im just going to get the johnny race car 5 inch
-a few of 2 inch to 2 1/2 inch silicone hose connecters
-abunch of just 2 inch silicone hose connectors
-that damn -4an male to a 10mm x 1.5 male adapter oil fitting adapter
-abunch of 2 inch madrel bent piping 90 degree bends and 180 with some straight ones too.
-

AccordEpicenter
03-16-2005, 08:10 PM
summit or jcwhitney have good bends... check your local muffler shop too. Nice bov. A turbo timer isnt totally nessecery, if you idle before shutting the car down it wont make a difference. If you run water cooling in the turbo also, you wont need it.

SECUR1TY
03-17-2005, 04:35 AM
just wondering guys.. would the h22 manifold fit onto a b20a on an 89 prelude?

adams86lxi
03-17-2005, 04:37 PM
just wondering guys.. would the h22 manifold fit onto a b20a on an 89 prelude?

Well the b20a5 from the prelude and the accord b20a stud holes are just a little different. So i would guess it would fit with alittle modification. Just get a exhasut gasket from both and compare them to see how far they are off.

adams86lxi
03-17-2005, 04:43 PM
well i found that stupid oil adapter thing i needed. It took awhile but i found it. I found it at a local all domestic performace shop. I walk in and they said we dont carry anything metric lol. Then they said they could order it for me though so i ordered it.

mykwikcoupe
03-17-2005, 08:45 PM
funny thing adam most newer cars are all metric. just tell them im loooking for this thing. Ill bet it would have been cheaper also.

RobT5580
03-17-2005, 09:07 PM
You can order the Tuner Toys fitting which worked good for the B20A. But your in cali so i would think you'd have more import shops around.

AccordEpicenter
03-17-2005, 09:48 PM
yeah... thats an excellent fitting... its in the tunertoys/stealthmode oil line kit

adams86lxi
03-17-2005, 11:08 PM
well i already got all of my oil lines and fittings comming now so i think it should all work ill just have to wait till i have everything infront of me. LOL and rob there are tons of import shops around but i hate going to all of them because they dont seem to know what im talking about or they are rediculously expensive!

BTW:Can i use heater hose for the oil pan return?

smufguy
03-18-2005, 08:18 AM
BTW:Can i use heater hose for the oil pan return?

as long as the hose can withstand high temperature, it should be alright. Stock GTS corollas had Goodyear braided rubber hoses that can be found at a local strore for their oil cooler lines, so i dont think u will have any problem

adams86lxi
03-18-2005, 02:27 PM
as long as the hose can withstand high temperature, it should be alright. Stock GTS corollas had Goodyear braided rubber hoses that can be found at a local strore for their oil cooler lines, so i dont think u will have any problem

Alright cool! THANKS!

smufguy
03-18-2005, 09:07 PM
your most welcome adam.

adams86lxi
03-24-2005, 04:53 PM
alright i got my johnny race car 5 inch intecooler comming now! Im just sorting out the little stuff. Im going to just run 2 inch charge pipes for the whole system. Now the output side of the turbo is almost 2 inches but not quite. I can fit a 2 inch silicone hose on it and get it to tighten down pretty good on it. Do you think it would leak at all? Its less then a quarter of a inch to small but i cant find silicone hose for less then 2 inch?



Does anyone know where i can get some mandrel bent 2 inch piping and various silicone connectors at for cheap?

smufguy
03-24-2005, 08:31 PM
it should not leak, given the fact you use the right clamps. Even tho the regular hose clamps are okay, they will not hold up to that much pressure. So you have to buy the right clamps and clamp it down and it wont leak. Besides, you are gonna do what like 12 to 15 psi tops? It should nto be a problem.

Coroncho80
03-24-2005, 08:40 PM
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/turbo%20stuff/100_0514.jpg

-


I don't know how much boost you're going to be running but it is recommended to crush that bov. It will be worth it at the long run; will prevent from leaking.

AccordEpicenter
03-24-2005, 08:41 PM
if it leaks... take it off again and crush it... its 2 bolts

adams86lxi
03-24-2005, 09:02 PM
alright cool, thanks guys! Im only starting off with 5 psi so i dont think the bov will need to be crushed but if it does leak i will. What do i do just use something to push down the top of it alittle?

Also! I have another question now. I want to put the bov before the intercooler about a foot after the turbo. Would the bov work fine this way or does it need to be real close to the throttle body? I want to use my cold air intake that is on there already and just route the bov somewhere on the other side before it goes into the intercooler. Other wise i will have to re do all the piping on that side too.

mykwikcoupe
03-24-2005, 09:21 PM
Id put mine real close to the TB less chance of overboost you know. if it vents of at surge and the release is tardy due to length of piping, intercooler and such it MAY have ill effects. Just be safe than sorry I think. Mike

adams86lxi
03-25-2005, 07:00 PM
Id put mine real close to the TB less chance of overboost you know. if it vents of at surge and the release is tardy due to length of piping, intercooler and such it MAY have ill effects. Just be safe than sorry I think. Mike


hmm, Ok thanks for the info. I was thinking it would be better since it would be able to bleed off the boost sooner since it was closer to the turbo. But im still learning all this.

Robs89LXi
03-25-2005, 07:50 PM
hmm, Ok thanks for the info. I was thinking it would be better since it would be able to bleed off the boost sooner since it was closer to the turbo. But im still learning all this.

You're thinking wastegate: it allows exessive boost pressure to escape before sending it to your intake. The Blow Off Valve (BOV) allows backpressure to bleed off when you let off boost, your throttle body butterfly closes, and all that boosted air between your turbo and your intake now has nowhere to go. That is why you want it close to your throttle body so it will repond quicker.

adams86lxi
03-25-2005, 09:25 PM
You're thinking wastegate: it allows exessive boost pressure to escape before sending it to your intake. The Blow Off Valve (BOV) allows backpressure to bleed off when you let off boost, your throttle body butterfly closes, and all that boosted air between your turbo and your intake now has nowhere to go. That is why you want it close to your throttle body so it will repond quicker.


nah, I wasnt thinking wastegate, i know the purpose of both i was just hoping it didnt matter where the bov was so it would be easier for me to locate it.

AccordEpicenter
03-25-2005, 09:34 PM
putting it at the turbo offers a little better protection against compressor surge at high boost (nothing we really care about) but driving out of boost is best with the bov mounted right near the tb

Justin86
03-25-2005, 10:07 PM
Also if you need a good place for silicone couplers, etc. High Temp Silicone has been pretty good to me.

smufguy
03-26-2005, 12:25 AM
adam, the reason a blow off valve is placed bwt the intercooler and the TB is because there is always a pressure drop when air passes thru the intercooler. Very technically speaking, the warm air (the immediate air out of the compressor) is of a higher pressure than what ur boost gauge reads, and while it travels thru the pipe and the intercooler, it cools down and looses velocity, hence the pressure, and becomes likeable to the motor for combustion. Putting the BOV in the conventional place, is the reason to do its job. Its nothing but a pressure valve and pressure valves vent excess pressure.


Wastegate: has nothing to do for the intake, even tho it works off the manifold pressure gradiant, its only a check valve, not a standalone pressure valve, to divert the exhaust air either to the bypass tube or the turbo housing.

adams86lxi
03-29-2005, 11:08 PM
alright i got my intercooler! Its awesome looking! Now i just got to figure out how the hell it will fit in the bumper lol!!!! I also now got a boost guage thanks to my friend totaling his supercharged civic 2 days ago unfortuantly. All i need now is alot of mandrel bent piping and alot of 2 inch silicone hose! Im planning on trying to put the stuff in this weekend!

adams86lxi
03-30-2005, 09:23 PM
Well i got excited and started ripping apart my car for the turbo. I got the h22 manifold to bolt up now also. Here are some pics i took with the cell. I have to completly get rid of power steering for this to work. When removing power steering what exactly do i need to do to get rid of everything? I already removed the pump now i need to know what i need to plug and what to take out. Also how the hell do you people fit your intercoolers in your bumper!!!!!!!!


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/03-30-05_1700.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/03-30-05_1659.jpg

AccordEpicenter
03-30-2005, 09:51 PM
looks SWEEET MAN... i cant wait to see it when its together! good work!

smufguy
03-31-2005, 07:23 AM
that manifold looks sweet as hell, now what kinda fan are u gettin?

carotman
03-31-2005, 07:54 AM
now PLEASE, change your fuel management, a PK2 ECU costs close to nothing and someone put all the diagrams on how to wire this.... :D It's not a chippable ECU but it would at least prevent you to run on the lean side (even N/A)

BTW, do you think that a H22A header would bolt to the B20A without much hassle?

AccordEpicenter
04-02-2005, 05:43 PM
i wouldnt swap ecus unless the new one is chippable/programmable. An safc/dsm 450cc setup will give you more fuel than you could need, but a fuel pump upgrade is in order soon.

adams86lxi
04-03-2005, 12:54 AM
i wouldnt swap ecus unless the new one is chippable/programmable. An safc/dsm 450cc setup will give you more fuel than you could need, but a fuel pump upgrade is in order soon.


see thats what i was thinking too. I decided to not really mess with the ecu since i was going turbo and it wouldnt do anything for me really it would still run lean. Im planning on running safc when i bump up the boost. Surprisingly my car n/a ran kinda rich with the wrong ecu. I had the ect (engine coolant temp) sensor unpluged though, and i know that makes the car think its cold and will run rich.

BTW: How does the safc connect up? I heard there real easy to install? Also what does it take to get dsm injecters to work on our cars? I want to do these things soon after im boosted.

adams86lxi
04-03-2005, 01:02 AM
BTW: here are a couple more crappy pics of my progress.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/04-02-05_2107.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/04-02-05_1400.jpg

The flange that connects the turbo to the manifold is one we fabbed up are selfs. It takes the 4 bolt flange and makes it a 3 bolt odd shapped one so they could connect to each other. And its also turned alittle so it wouldnt hit anything. This shit is really starting to piss me off though! Everything and i mean every fucking thing that can go wrong is going wrong!!!!! Just got to be patient i guess.

smufguy
04-03-2005, 08:04 AM
have u tried flipping the turbo the other way around adam? The way it sits right now, looks like u might run into some difficulty of routing the O2 housing and downpipe. Its gonna go towards the left of the front mount, and then go under the crossmember that connects the front and rear beam. which will put the exhaust pipe a lil lower to the ground and engine movement is gonna be a issue since u might have to leave some clearance so that the pipe wont hit the beam.

look at the way Rob-T mounted his turbo.

adams86lxi
04-03-2005, 08:40 AM
nah the turbo has to sit on that side because if it was on the other side i couldnt get the charge pipe from the turbo to the bumper on the drivers side to go the intercooler on that side. Yes the down pipe is going to be a huge bitch i know lol.

adams86lxi
04-03-2005, 06:36 PM
ALright i need to know this RIGHT NOW because im about to drill the hole. Where should i put the oil return line for the turbo oil drain????? Does it go on the front deep part towards the crank pulley, or the shallow part towards the transmission??????????????

smufguy
04-03-2005, 08:43 PM
http://members.aol.com/alexemt/images/htchunder.jpg.jpg

looks like the return is on the crank side (the big part) of the oil pan.

http://www.lextreme.com/Oil%20Return%20line.jpg
http://www.uniquemotorsports.com/Jon/images/oil_pan_1.jpg

Robs89LXi
04-04-2005, 04:40 AM
I think you just want to make sure it comes in above the oil level so as to not cause any back pressure. Make sure it is high up on the oil pan.

adams86lxi
04-04-2005, 04:33 PM
hmm, well i drilled it yesterday and i just gessed where to put it. I think i put it above the oil line i judged it by the oil dip stick. It should work ok here i guess.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/04-04-05_1420.jpg

smufguy
04-04-2005, 08:37 PM
damn adam, i replied to you like 2 hours later. well anyway, i guess it does not matter much, but have fun trying to bolt that thing up cause its gonna be right under ur turbo and its very very short hose too.

AccordEpicenter
04-04-2005, 09:12 PM
looks good adam... put some jb weld around it for the HMT seal

adams86lxi
04-04-2005, 09:20 PM
damn adam, i replied to you like 2 hours later. well anyway, i guess it does not matter much, but have fun trying to bolt that thing up cause its gonna be right under ur turbo and its very very short hose too.


lmao! I got excited and couldnt wait so i just went for it and hoped for the best lol.

adams86lxi
04-04-2005, 09:23 PM
looks good adam... put some jb weld around it for the HMT seal

O i did. I put jb weld on the back side of the washer and put another washer on the inside along with a nut to hold it and then jb welded it all up.

Robs89LXi
04-05-2005, 06:57 AM
You might be okay there, depending on how low your turbo hangs. The oil return is basically done by gravity, so make sure your line has a nice downward slope from the turbo to the oil pan. Leave just a small bit of slack (for vibration) but do not have so much line that it will sag and put a "belly" in the line for oil to accumulate. Like Praveen said, looks like you are going to have a real short line.

adams86lxi
04-07-2005, 11:04 PM
alright im basically ready for this thing to start up! All i need to do now is run the charge pipes on one side of the motor. I now need to know where would be best for me to hook the vaccum lines up to with the differnt parts that use them. By this i mean should it be hooked up before or after the throttle body????

FMU
BOV
Wategate
boost guage


also what should i set my timing too? Right now i have it at about 13 degrees BTDC with 89 ocatane fuel and it doesnt have a knock or anything right now. What should i set it too with 5 psi of boost.

smufguy
04-08-2005, 07:11 AM
Vaccum lines are always behind the Throttle Body adam. thats like engine 101 brotha. lol Before the TB there is no vaccum its pretty close to 1atm or in ur case a lil more till whatever boost kicks in.

so yeah, plug that shit up behind the tb. also, u can get a vaccum distributiom box and hook up ur lines, or just get a T and use it inline with your existing stuff.

PS: with the SEcondary and Cruise Vaccum ports free, you will have a total of three free vaccum ports on the manifold (if ur using 88-89 manifold) if not, then im not sure how many u got.

adams86lxi
04-08-2005, 10:16 AM
Vaccum lines are always behind the Throttle Body adam. thats like engine 101 brotha. lol Before the TB there is no vaccum its pretty close to 1atm or in ur case a lil more till whatever boost kicks in.

lol, i know that, but for some reason the vaccum line for the wategate says to hook it up before the throttle body? I was just curious if this was right or not?

Robs89LXi
04-08-2005, 03:08 PM
It is not a vaccum line, it reads positive pressure (boost). That is what the wastegate does; it dumps off exessive pressure that you don't need. I think you have an internal wastegate, right? If so, you can hook that line up to the compressor side of the turbo, if you have the nipple there, or you can hook it up before the throttle body (again, if you have a source). Many internally wastegated turbo come with the tube connected to the compressor side already so as to measure the boost pressure as soon as it leaves the compressor, and thus bleed off any excess. The better way, I think, is to have it routed to just before the throttle body (on your charge pipe) though, so you can get a true boost reading, after it has passed through the intercooler and piping. Remember, you will get some drop in pressure after going through all that, so it will be a more true reading of what your boost set point is.

adams86lxi
04-08-2005, 04:38 PM
It is not a vaccum line, it reads positive pressure (boost). That is what the wastegate does; it dumps off exessive pressure that you don't need. I think you have an internal wastegate, right? If so, you can hook that line up to the compressor side of the turbo, if you have the nipple there, or you can hook it up before the throttle body (again, if you have a source). Many internally wastegated turbo come with the tube connected to the compressor side already so as to measure the boost pressure as soon as it leaves the compressor, and thus bleed off any excess. The better way, I think, is to have it routed to just before the throttle body (on your charge pipe) though, so you can get a true boost reading, after it has passed through the intercooler and piping. Remember, you will get some drop in pressure after going through all that, so it will be a more true reading of what your boost set point is.

mine is a external... Would i just connect it in the same way????


BTW: I finished the car today and drove it around!!!! It for some reason wants to push 7psi instead of 5??? does anyone know why??? Now i got a serious question! I was driving it and for some odd reason it jumped to 13 or so psi and blew the dip stick out along with alot of oil??? Now im guessing that just from it boosting too much but i dont know???? Now its blowing alot of air or something from the crank case breather!!!!!! Did i screw something up bad or what is this from?????

Robs89LXi
04-08-2005, 04:50 PM
Ruh-Roh! Blow back through the crankcase breather tube (y'know, the black box that connects the crankcase to the intake manifold)? Hadn't thought about that before. How about it, boosted guys?

Your external wastegate, is it adjustable? Do you have any pics of it?

*edit* Oops, just looked back at your original post. Imitation Tial? Maybe it is not holding, but how do you have the tubing run?

adams86lxi
04-09-2005, 12:57 PM
well im going to rip it down as soon as i figure out where i can get the parts for it like a head gasket and all the rod bearings, piston rings etc. Its either a fried head gasket or fried piston rings. I only got to drive it maybe a total of 10 minutes before the vaccum line for the wastegate came off and it hit 15 or so psi and killed it. It still somehow runs fine but has no power. Just thought you guys would like these pics. This is how it sits right now before i rip it down.

enjoy.


EDIT!!! HERE IS MY VID!!!

remember this is after it blew. It still ran real good just didnt make any power. Im just cruising around in the vid!



http://keruh.com/3gz/adams%20turboed%20car.wmv


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/100_0557.jpg


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/100_0555.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/100_0558.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/100_0562.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/100_0560.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/100_0550.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/100_0559.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/04-07-05_1353.jpg

Here are some pics of it after i tore it down today! Its sad!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/100_0569.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/2c84fb0f.jpg

88accordhb
04-09-2005, 01:23 PM
YOU BLEW IT ALREADY?!??! you bastard! damn adam. get it fixed and get some good vids. can't wait.

MarioBurke
04-09-2005, 01:24 PM
that is sexy!

Jareds 89 LX-i
04-09-2005, 01:42 PM
Looks awsome!! :rockon: Looks like you've put alot of work into it... good job!

RobT5580
04-09-2005, 02:05 PM
Damn i guess im not the only one with a black cloud following me. Hopefully its nothing major you should do a compression check because you may have burned up the sides of the pistons when the boost spiked. Hopefully thats not the case cause you will have to sleeve your block or hopefully be able to bore it depending on how bad the scoring is if thats what happened. The other option would be a custom set of oversized pistons but thats $700 and 5-6 weeks thats why i went with the sleeves.

TTSpider
04-09-2005, 02:32 PM
very awesome i'd love to see some videos and hear that thing make some noise

Hash_man_Se_i
04-09-2005, 11:10 PM
Damn that sucks man... so quickly too.

Just out of curiosity, what are the dimensions of that intercooler.. looks like a good size for our cars.

NXRacer
04-09-2005, 11:12 PM
sucks to hear dude.

that is one sexy manifold.

TheWatcher
04-09-2005, 11:19 PM
WHOA!

I think I had an orgasm!

:bowrofl:

adams86lxi
04-09-2005, 11:56 PM
Damn that sucks man... so quickly too.

Just out of curiosity, what are the dimensions of that intercooler.. looks like a good size for our cars.


its the johnny race car 5 inch intercooler. The core is only 5 inches tall by 33 inches long (38 with the end tanks) and 2.5 inches wide. It fits pretty good.

Justin86
04-10-2005, 12:06 AM
whoa if you dip stick it getting blow out then your rings are toasted big time. try running it with the oil cap off and you can fell all the blow by.
any way look like you have a VERY nice set up and manifold, just get-r back on the road ASAP. ;)

myaccord7
04-10-2005, 03:30 AM
omg my pants!!!

AccordEpicenter
04-10-2005, 05:52 AM
nice work adam. Did you not have a boost gauge? If the wastegate line snapped off you probably hit more like 20psi+ Mine started to get a hole in it and my boost started to creep up... boost gauges are a must have item

adams86lxi
04-10-2005, 07:59 AM
Yea, i had a boost guage but its down in that little area under the cd player so its out of the way. I had some one watching that and my air/ fuel mixture and i thought they new what i wanted it to boost but i guess not because they sure didnt tell me when it overboosted.

BTW: what and where is the safest way to connect that line so this doesnt happen in the future. I had it connected to the housing of the turbo but the line i think got hot and it got real soft and just slipped off. I should of used better vaccum line. The only problem is that the part for the vaccum line to connect up to on the turbo is real small and the part for the vaccum line to connect up to the wastegate is huge. So i practically need 2 different sizes of vaccum line. Is there another place i could connect it up to other then the turbo or does it absolutly have to be connected????

ICEMAN707
04-10-2005, 11:42 AM
hey who made your turbo manifold? that is one nice shiny beast!

HondaBoy
04-10-2005, 01:16 PM
how long until you get it all done again? that's cool that it still has the 13's on. is that a nash parked next to the 3gee?

AccordEpicenter
04-10-2005, 02:19 PM
i used some like 1/4" line i think and connected it from the intake manifold to the wastegate actuator (better signal) Plug the one on the compressor housing. My guess is that the ringlands on the one piston are cracked up badly, thell fall a part in your hand when you take the engine apart

BlueBead
04-10-2005, 05:45 PM
Damn that is sexy!
that manifold is so friggin nice..... get'r back on the blacktop man!

88accordalltheway
04-10-2005, 06:09 PM
adam, if/when you get it fixed, call me up right before you drive it, i want to sit in the car and feel the power just in case you blow it again.

adams86lxi
04-10-2005, 08:50 PM
adam, if/when you get it fixed, call me up right before you drive it, i want to sit in the car and feel the power just in case you blow it again.


lol, not a problem bro! I decided to fix it i just need parts now. I ripped it all apart now i just need the parts. I need pistons and rings! Perferbly low compression pistons if there cheap.

adams86lxi
04-10-2005, 09:03 PM
how long until you get it all done again? that's cool that it still has the 13's on. is that a nash parked next to the 3gee?

Hell yeah its all about the 13s lol! Nah i want some 15 inch rotas or something but i care more about making it faster right now. The car next to mine is a 63 triumph tr4. Its my dads future project car.

adams86lxi
04-10-2005, 09:07 PM
i used some like 1/4" line i think and connected it from the intake manifold to the wastegate actuator (better signal) Plug the one on the compressor housing. My guess is that the ringlands on the one piston are cracked up badly, thell fall a part in your hand when you take the engine apart


you were 100 % right! All the ring lands on ALL of the pistons were destoyed! The pistons rings werent actually that bad it was the ringlands that were completly destroyed on all of the pistons. Im so surprised it drove so well!

mykwikcoupe
04-10-2005, 09:23 PM
why go low comp pistons. your not running that much boost and your revs are not as high as needed to need them either. Just tune it right next time and make sure to use HOSE CLAMPS on ALL the pressureeized lines.

adams86lxi
04-10-2005, 09:35 PM
why go low comp pistons. your not running that much boost and your revs are not as high as needed to need them either. Just tune it right next time and make sure to use HOSE CLAMPS on ALL the pressureeized lines.


Rather be safe then sorry! I would rather put them in now then have to tear it down later if i wanna run more boost. I had 2 zipties on the vaccum line, it got hot and softened up and ripped threw then it just slipped off.



BTW: EVERYONE I ADDED PICTURES OF WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE NOW, AND A VID TO MY FIRST POST!!!!!

AccordEpicenter
04-10-2005, 09:35 PM
yeah and i bet that the cylinder walls are fine too. You can use a deglazing ball hone and just run it thru the cylinders with some oil for like 5 sec each cyl and install new rings/pistons and you should be ok depending if the bores were damaged or not

EDIT: Are you using home depot charge pipe couplers? Thats awesome!

adams86lxi
04-10-2005, 09:48 PM
yeah and i bet that the cylinder walls are fine too. You can use a deglazing ball hone and just run it thru the cylinders with some oil for like 5 sec each cyl and install new rings/pistons and you should be ok depending if the bores were damaged or not

EDIT: Are you using home depot charge pipe couplers? Thats awesome!


Yeah the cylinder walls look fine. My friend has a ball hone so i will make sure we do that. Is a press the only way a can get the wrist pins out on this motor or what??? Hell yeah i used home deopt pipe couplers lol. Actually its a mix of home depot pipe couplers and some acttual high temp silicone couplers i bought.

AccordEpicenter
04-10-2005, 10:15 PM
home depot couplers are just fine. Yea you need a press to get the wrist pins out, and even then theres no guarantee you wont damage the pistons, you have to do it just right. Cool vid too, my accord sounds kinda like yours except it sounds more even (youre probably missing on 1 cyl or 2) and its louder, but the turbo sounds close. When mines spools up it makes a loud ass sucking noise and it blows off pretty loud too, i just need to get an exhaust on it and get my tuning down

88accordalltheway
04-10-2005, 11:38 PM
lol, your movie started to get really good right when it ended.....guess im going to have to experience it first hand....

ICEMAN707
04-11-2005, 01:09 AM
is that a turbo manifold off another car or something? i remember you made a thread about a dsm manifold fitting the b20a just by redrilling some bolt holes?

RobT5580
04-11-2005, 06:42 AM
Its for an H22 i found that they were the closest match so Adam was the test dummy and he re-drilled and ported the manifold to fit. I checked a few DSM's with no luck but I thought it was an older DSM that was close but the H22 was not a bad match with modifications.

Lok
04-11-2005, 02:30 PM
Very nice set-up but sorry for the blown engine...........
9.5:1 standar C/R of B20A is OK for TURBO with stock internals and 0.7 bar+.
Newer B16A-B18C engines can hold reliable 1bar or 14.5 psi with stock internals-stock block and they make over 300hp with one T3.
B16A-B18C1 can put 300+hp with stock 10.2-10:1 C/R at 0.7bar/T3 reliably, but after that and until 1 bar, they need aftermarket head gasket for drop the C/R at about 9-9.5:1.
Over 1 bar they need new forged pistons-rods.
jdm B20A , I believe can handle totally reliable 0.7bar TURBO, with stock C/R , stock internals and make 300hp+.
B20A is also close deck instead of open deck B16A-B18C.
The problem is the ECU and the injectors.
One stand-alone ECU is the best part for a TURBO set-up , AEM ( the best but very expensive) POWER-FC, E-MANAGE are all OK if they tunned by someone with experience in electronic tunning.
Also RC 440cc injectors for proper fueling..........stock injectors are not that good for
TURBO SET-UP over 0.5bar.

Good Luck

RobT5580
04-11-2005, 04:44 PM
Actually i believe the stock compression is 9.3:1 if im not mistaken. I ran 9:1 Wiseco's on mine but tuning is key when you step up the compression with boost.

smufguy
04-12-2005, 06:00 AM
damn you adamn!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! you blew your B20!!!!!!!!!

well, everything looks good. But next time, have a lil more patience man. All i can say is that, it sucks to be you right now.

nice O2 housing by the way............... flexhose.

carotman
04-12-2005, 06:17 AM
Adam, when you put this back on... make SUUURE you change the ECU... the stock A20A ECU makes the B20A run lean on an N/A setup.... no way it will work on the Turbo B20A properly.

RobT5580
04-12-2005, 06:41 AM
Adam, when you put this back on... make SUUURE you change the ECU... the stock A20A ECU makes the B20A run lean on an N/A setup.... no way it will work on the Turbo B20A properly.

I second that from experience and i was using a wideband O2 so I highly recommend going to the prelude ECU. And make sure you take it easy since your bearings and rings are going to be new.

Civvy
04-12-2005, 07:58 AM
You have to disconnect the pipe from the black box from the manifold!!! The PCV valve is like a check valve only it lifts a ball bearing up under manifold vacuum to let the black box breathe. so therefore if you give the manifold boost the ball bearing PCV valve wont work so your crankcase has nowhere to vent! The crankcase breathing system is setup because of the small amount of gases that do get past the rings, since youve now boosted it the pressure on your rings will be really high ...dangerous at the mo!!!
I hope you look at this quick before you blow your rings!

Civvy
04-12-2005, 08:06 AM
I've used the same breather filter as the one on your valve cover. just pull the small pipe from the manifold and then pull the other end and the pcv valve will pop out with the pipe. throw away the pcv valve, cut the pipe in half, stick it back in the hole and whack a breather filter on it. using the other half pipe stick a bolt in itand use it to plug the manifold.
or just leave the pcv valve out. but it gets smelly!

Cheeseburger
04-12-2005, 10:19 AM
dam adam nice pics to bad it went out like that

SQ is the SQUAD
04-13-2005, 09:20 PM
check out http://www.pgmfi.org/
we might be able to use turbo with our stock pre odb ecu, i forget what program was for pre odb

rjudgey
04-14-2005, 04:40 AM
or do a DIY with Megasquirt and make the ECU yourself some very cool stuff on their website!!

Civvy
04-20-2005, 12:34 AM
So what blew?

adams86lxi
04-20-2005, 11:21 AM
So what blew?


All the ringlands were destroyed on all of the pistons. Im deffiently doing what you said to do with the pcv when i get it back together.

JDM STEVE
04-20-2005, 01:01 PM
I don't think you should use winsheild wiper hose for vacume lines!!! just kiddin adam.

adams86lxi
04-20-2005, 01:50 PM
Sure........JDM STEVE. lol

adams86lxi
05-08-2005, 06:32 PM
Alright i tore the b20a down and rebuilt it all. Yes, i threw stock parts back in because thats all i can afford and i need a car to drive soon. I only plan on pushing 7psi max on this anyway. I finished it today and decided to fire it up to see what it would do. I dont have any fuel management so i didnt let it do anything other then idel and maybe go to around 2000rpms just to see if it would run right. Well it seems to run perfect.

The only think i notice is that its shooting a bit of smoke out of the exhaust when i give it gas. Im thinking this is just because the piston rings need to get worked in and seated but i dont know? Does anyone know if this is normal???? Im pretty sure its fine but i need to be postitive!

BTW: Dont think im not running any fuel management. Im just getting money to buy all of the good stuff. Im getting a walbro 190 lph fuel pump, dsm 450s, msd btm (from eljiah hopefully) and long story with my safc but it should be comming AGAIN soon. The car isnt even going to start up again probbaly until i get all of this stuff.

88Accord-DX
05-08-2005, 06:36 PM
Yes, you're right. That is normal, the rings need time to seat. Don't worry about how much oil the car burns for the first 2,000 miles. Better post ahead.

Keep an eye on the oil level while the rings seat!!!

88accordhb
05-08-2005, 08:37 PM
damn adam, good shit, hope you get everything you need man.

AccordEpicenter
05-08-2005, 08:58 PM
if i were you adam, get your managemant in order, make a conservative basemap, go out and do some 40-80mph pulls on the highway, cruise for a bit, repeat. That helps the rings seat better

shepherd79
05-09-2005, 03:38 AM
while you have your car down, you may as well convert to OBD1.
it will help the car a lot plus you will be able to use hondata.

88Accord-DX
05-09-2005, 09:21 AM
1.) Drive normally but not a continuous high speeds for the first 500 miles. Occasional quick bursts of speed followed by quick deceleration during this period, is beneficial. AVOID LUGGING!!! TRIPS AND TOWING are not recommended until after 1000 miles.
NOTE:
Applying loads to the engine for short periods of time causes increased ring pressure against cylinder walls and helps to seat the rings. This is especially important because you are "BREAKING-IN" the engine with heavy duty oils. The rapid deceleration increases vacuum and gives extra lubrication to the piston and other assemblies.


2.) IMPORTANT! AFTER 500 TO A MAXIMUM OF 1000 MILES OF SERVICE, change oil and filter and readjust the valves, except hydraulic. We also require that valve adjustments be done again after a total of 6000 miles. We require a maximum of 3000 miles between oil changes and factory recommendation on valve adjustments thereafter.
NOTE:
Add oil at 1/2 quart intervals on small capacity engines. OIL AND WATER LEVELS ARE A DRIVER OR OWNER MAINTENANCE RESPONSIBILITY, THEY MUST BE KEPT FULL. We realize that this means extra effort on your part, but it assures long and satisfactory engine performance.


3.) A heavy duty detergent oil is required. Use a good quality brand oil, Some Manufacturers require 5/30, others recommend 10/40 for 20 degrees Fahrenheit to 100 degrees Fahrenheit and use 20/50w for higher temperatures and heavy duty use.
NOTE:
In past years, it has been common practice to use non-detergent and straight weight oil during the "BREAK-IN" period because it was felt that the rings would seat quicker without the film strength additives. More recently, there has been a trend to high speed and high temperature engines, cam lobe and tappet loads also have increased to a point where it is important to use heavy duty oils which contain a EP (high pressure) additive right from the start. Rings will seat properly when moderate loads are applied as noted above in section one.

adams86lxi
05-09-2005, 10:52 AM
alright awesome! Thanks for you help guys.

But is it ok for me to go into boost every once in awhile for short bursts??? Or do i need to stay out of it?

Cheeseburger
05-09-2005, 01:14 PM
nice bor. its good to hear you have your car up and running again

adams86lxi
05-09-2005, 02:57 PM
also, is it normal to feel some air shooting out of the top of the valve cover from the breather?

I remember when i destroyed it there was oil shooting out of it bad.

88accordhb
05-09-2005, 03:35 PM
also, is it normal to feel some air shooting out of the top of the valve cover from the breather?

I remember when i destroyed it there was oil shooting out of it bad.
you talkin about out of the pvc valve hose that runs out of the valve cover? mine shots warm air out on start up and hot air after running, i believe that's normal.

adams86lxi
05-09-2005, 10:34 PM
you talkin about out of the pvc valve hose that runs out of the valve cover? mine shots warm air out on start up and hot air after running, i believe that's normal.


I think thats the one. I dont have a pcv valve anymore. I took it out and put a breather filter inplace of it on the little black box on the back of the block. The one im talking about just runs from the valve cover to the intake.

adams86lxi
05-10-2005, 05:16 PM
Does anyone know the answers to these questions still???


is it normal to feel some air shooting out of the top of the valve cover from the breather?

and should i stay out of boost while breaking it in, or can i everyonce inawhile go into it for a short while.

AccordEpicenter
05-10-2005, 05:44 PM
yes feeling air is normal, dont go into boost until you get your managemant sorted out, or you WILL be taking this engine apart AGAIN

RobT5580
05-10-2005, 06:24 PM
You need to stay out of boost period. Your rings are new i take it and the oil consumption hopefully will go away when the rings seat. Mine burns oil still after 1000 miles but i blame myself for rushing it and not getting different rings because the new ones didnt look great compared to the old. Your number one priority is tuning period but break it in first with no boost so you know its all good.

You really should get a wideband but you priority is fuel management. I hope you dont run into crap like i have but im willing to battle it because im really determined to finish this thing right.

Good like adam!

adams86lxi
05-10-2005, 10:07 PM
alright cool. As long as i stay under 3500 it doesnt boost. So i will stay out of it gets broken in.

adams86lxi
05-10-2005, 10:08 PM
yes feeling air is normal, dont go into boost until you get your managemant sorted out, or you WILL be taking this engine apart AGAIN


Dont worry its not going anywhere till i get all of the management on it.

Civvy
05-11-2005, 12:59 AM
Glad u disc. the PCV. hurry up man i want to here what its like! so i can do it!

adams86lxi
08-05-2005, 12:01 AM
Well i havent really let alot of you know what has been going on with my car lately so im giving you guys a update.

Well this is what i have been up too JUST THIS WEEK!!!

I finnaly got my safc in!!! Took me alot of trouble and 3 months but i finnaly got it (DAMN EBAY). I got everything else done too. Got my injectors, fuel pump, etc. Put all of it in. Found out that the horrible miss my car had was just my old rising rate fuel mangament system was screwed up. I finnaly got to drive it with the new parts and it felt pretty good. Except for the horrible lag, it wouldnt make boost till about 5000+rpms!!! This was caused by a few things! No fire ring in the wastegate (long story, and its still not in) but it always seemed to still not be too laggy. Well today i was looking at it and i see that the gasket between the wastegate and the manifold is blown out on the top and bottom! Yet the car was still making boost. Anyways also one of the bolts that holds my turbo to my flange came out and the turbo was barley hanging on. Had to relocate one of my oil lines. I experimented with making my motor mounts stiffer but i kinda got excited and put them into early and screwed them up lol. Ive been messing with the settings on the safc alittle too. Trying to get it to run smoothly. Took my cams and shit out just so i could retorque the head. There is still barley 300 miles on my new pistons and stuff. Im making a new dump tube for my wastegate because its dumping off right by where my turbo is sucking up air so its basically sucking up exhaust. Picked me up a set of colder plugs and put them in. Ditched my old exhaust system. Been pricing out a new one. Fixed my boost guage so it actually works now lol. I also Finally hooked up my ect sensor. And i still have tons of other stuff to go lol. Im trying to get it ready for are socal meet. I dont know what im going to do for tires. My tires are showing the metal wires comming out!


O yea, just so its a official accord pic topic ill post some old pics. Ill try to get some new ones tommorw. And im going to try to get a vid too!!!

My new pistons
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/100_0638.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/100_0650.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/100_0639.jpg]

hacked to shit bumper!
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/382000-382999/382073_108_full.jpg

http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/382000-382999/382073_111_full.jpg

The only real difference is there is a blitz bov on it now!
http://memimage.cardomain.net/member_images/10/web/382000-382999/382073_109_full.jpg

http://n00087.myspace.com/00087/91/30/87520319_l.jpg





o yea, this is the setup if you are interested

-H22 turbo manifold
-td04 wrx turbo
-b20a5 pistons
-apexi safc
-dsm 450cc injectors
-walbro 255lph fuel pump
-johnny race car 33 inch long intercooler
-blitz bov
-38mm wastegate
-ngk wires, and colder plugs
-homemade catch can (not pictured)

adams86lxi
08-05-2005, 12:12 AM
So everyone knows how my car feels with boost! It feels pretty good. It felt better before when i had my shitty mangament on it and i think thats because i just relized today that the wastegate gasket was blown completly out and the wastegate was just real loose! So im going to drive it tommrow and see what it can really do. I have a quarter mile setup that me and my friends usually mess around on just to see what we can get up too and i got it too 100mph which im not sure how accurate my speedo is but somewhere around there. My compression is still real low?? Im just guessing its because the pistons were slightly different. Maybe lower compression. So i might be pumping up the boost in the near future! I can tell that my clutch isnt going to be able to keep up with it. But its doing the job "alright" for the circumstances.

A20A1
08-05-2005, 12:24 AM
Yummy -> Heat stained stainless steel

:)

Get some times up and vids if you can.
.

Your downpipe will rust like crazy, I've used those flex pipes before.


So how is the whole PCV system holding up as well as the valve cover vent.

I've seen belt driven circulation pumps that are supposed to take the place of manifold vacuum, and I guess vent valve cover gasses as well. Just a thought, may help.

adams86lxi
08-05-2005, 12:31 AM
Yummy -> Heat stained stainless steel

:)

Get some times up and vids if you can.
.

Your downpipe will rust like crazy, I've used those flex pipes before.

lol, yep it turned that color like 2 minutes after i started my car up lol. The downpipe is just a temporary thing. Ivehad it on there for over 6 months even though my car hasent been running that long it just sat there and it hasent started rusting at all. Probbaly because i live in the desert lol. It was like 105 degrees today. It dont rain lol.

adams86lxi
08-05-2005, 12:33 AM
So how is the whole PCV system holding up as well as the valve cover vent.

I've seen belt driven circulation pumps that are supposed to take the place of manifold vacuum, and I guess vent valve cover gasses as well. Just a thought, may help.

pcv is gone. I just have a filter on top of that black box on the back of the block. Im probbaly going to go with a catch can one of these days.

A20A1
08-05-2005, 12:40 AM
Are you going to stick with that FRAM filter?

adams86lxi
08-05-2005, 12:47 AM
lol, probbally. Why not?? FRAM and STP are the only common ones i can find around here.

Vanilla Sky
08-05-2005, 01:21 AM
you can tap your exhaust for vacuum. there are a couple threads on HT about it.

RobT5580
08-05-2005, 06:16 AM
pcv is gone. I just have a filter on top of that black box on the back of the block. Im probbaly going to go with a catch can one of these days.

You should take care of this soon because you have no where for blow by to collect except stay in the breather box untill it fills up. I have the moroso catch can with a line coming off the breather box to the can with a filter on the can and one on the valve cover.

Hopefully you have better luck this round but be very carefull since your not tuning your car with a wideband or anything. Its very easy to break stuff this way which you already found out.

Glad to see your making progress!

SteveDX89
08-05-2005, 08:10 AM
Hopefully you have better luck this round but be very carefull since your not tuning your car with a wideband or anything. Its very easy to break stuff this way which you already found out.


Yeah, adjusting your fuel with an AFC and not touching the timing is a bad way to tune. Just be careful.

adams86lxi
08-05-2005, 01:46 PM
You should take care of this soon because you have no where for blow by to collect except stay in the breather box untill it fills up. I have the moroso catch can with a line coming off the breather box to the can with a filter on the can and one on the valve cover.

ive been reading non stop about pcv and its getting anoying becuase everyone says something different! lol. So what do you sugest i go with rob?? Isnt what you just said with the catch can the same thing?? Because you dont have a vaccum source to suck the vapors out you just got a filter on top of the catch can? Correct me if im wrong. I dont want to do this wrong and im confused!

RobT5580
08-05-2005, 01:59 PM
You need the can to collect the blow by because right now your just going to collect it all in the breather box. You can set a catch can up many ways and i had my done another way but decided just to use a single inlet from the breather box and use a filter on the can and valve cover. You can read all day long about this so i cant say whats best but i know mine is working.

Cheeseburger
08-05-2005, 02:58 PM
hopefully u can get her ready for the meet

adams86lxi
08-05-2005, 03:09 PM
hopefully u can get her ready for the meet


Thats the goal!

Vanilla Sky
08-05-2005, 04:43 PM
like i said, the exhaust can be tapped for vacuum.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1197655

there ya go.

adams86lxi
08-05-2005, 05:30 PM
like i said, the exhaust can be tapped for vacuum.

http://www.honda-tech.com/zerothread?id=1197655

there ya go.



Thanks for the link, but i already saw this

http://www.secureperformanceorder.com/dynatechstore/getproduct.cfm?CategoryID=28&ClassID=265&SubclassID=1277&ProductID=5340

Vanilla Sky
08-05-2005, 05:56 PM
ok. it just seems that people ignore me when i bring that topic up, though. most are like OMG, vacuum from the exhaust!!!!!????!?!?!!?

adams86lxi
08-06-2005, 01:11 AM
Well i decided today to make a DIY catch can. So i started off with a compresser filter for a air compresser i got at walmart. This is how i hooked it up. I connected the one end right into the top of that black box where the pcv valve used to be. Then i took the other end and needed to do something for pre-turbo vaccum. So i took a small piece of piping and put a 3/8 fitting into it about a inch away from the turbo and about a inch away from my filter (aka metal screan). So i was curious to if this will get good vaccum for it to work propperly?? Here are some pics!



http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/100_0809.jpg

The hose coupler is connected directly onto the turbo.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/100_0805.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v148/adams86lxi/23aef2fd.jpg

adams86lxi
08-06-2005, 01:17 AM
The metal screan is temporary btw lol.

89T
02-11-2012, 07:38 PM
I am bumping every old turbo thread. Is it running or gone.