86 lxi hb no start

[syclinsam]

I've been posting in http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=42195 which is "stalling when hitting idle" but that isn't really my problem.

I've got an 86 lxi hb, with 228,000. I got it in Jan, it had sat for two years prior. I cannot get the damn thing to start. I have been searching 3geez since Jan. I have tried just about everything that I can find. It will turn over and over, and only a little shot of starting fluid will make it fire for an instant then it dies.

(i know you aren't supposed to but I thought a quick shot would help it get going after sitting for so long)

my ecu gave me a code for the CTS so I replaced that. after reset there are no more codes and no dummy lights.

I have replaced:
fuel (siphoned out the old and put in good gas with treatment and drygas)
fuel pump
fuel filter
fuel injectors (used but good)
main relay (stopped the PGM-FI light from coming on)
ecu (just checked with a known good one)
oil & filter
air filter
spark plugs
wires
battery & positive cable
ignition coil

I have cleaned:
idle adjust screw
throttle body
fast idle assembly
injector ports into the manifold
distributor cap

HELP!!! I've really enjoyed working on it up to this point but I haven't made any progress aside from no more codes or dummy lights. It is getting pretty damn frustrating. :pc: I do not want to scrap it because it is in good shape other than not running. :hs:

Where do I go from here? I think it is related to the fuel system because the starting fluid will fire it. Maybe I'm way off but I need some direction... :dunno:

any ideas?

thanks for reading,

Sam

[Oldblueaccord]

I've been posting in http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=42195 which is "stalling when hitting idle" but that isn't really my problem.

I've got an 86 lxi hb, with 228,000. I got it in Jan, it had sat for two years prior. I cannot get the damn thing to start. I have been searching 3geez since Jan. I have tried just about everything that I can find. It will turn over and over, and only a little shot of starting fluid will make it fire for an instant then it dies.

(i know you aren't supposed to but I thought a quick shot would help it get going after sitting for so long)

my ecu gave me a code for the CTS so I replaced that. after reset there are no more codes and no dummy lights.

I have replaced:
fuel (siphoned out the old and put in good gas with treatment and drygas)
fuel pump
fuel filter
fuel injectors (used but good)
main relay (stopped the PGM-FI light from coming on)
ecu (just checked with a known good one)
oil & filter
air filter
spark plugs
wires
battery & positive cable
ignition coil

I have cleaned:
idle adjust screw
throttle body
fast idle assembly
injector ports into the manifold
distributor cap

HELP!!! I've really enjoyed working on it up to this point but I haven't made any progress aside from no more codes or dummy lights. It is getting pretty damn frustrating. :pc: I do not want to scrap it because it is in good shape other than not running. :hs:

Where do I go from here? I think it is related to the fuel system because the starting fluid will fire it. Maybe I'm way off but I need some direction... :dunno:

any ideas?

thanks for reading,

Sam


Well from what you had said about it hitting on starting fluid that means you have spark so I would look at the fuel side of the problem first.

See if you can get a pressure guage on the fuel filter port and check there. You can also loosen that little bolt and fuel should squirt out. If you have pressure there I would just go ahead and pull an injector and see if you got fuel coming outta them. Just be very careful have a fire extinguser handy gas is dangerous.



wp

[BlueBead]

Fuel problem bro...
check the fuel pressure.... You replaced the fuel pump, but maybe its not getting juice...
Other than that...... it sounds like you need to go thru the whole fuel system and check everything; I'd start by checking the injectors like OldBlue said.... if its been sitting maybe they corroded..
Goiod luck man!

[syclinsam]

Would a fuel injector resistor keep the engine from firing if it was faulty?

I tested it mine and it came back as 0 ohms when it should be like 1.5 or so.

I'm gonna get another at the j-yard tomorrow.

I haven't been able to get my hands on a fuel pressure gauge yet. I'm hoping tomorrow.

sam

[syclinsam]

my fuel injectors are in good shape and my fuel pump buzzes on when I turn the key.

i'm gonna check the volume of fuel it pushes here in a few minutes.

thanks for the ideas guys, keep em comin'

sam

[syclinsam]

I'm beginning to realize it is easy to justify any ideas that may come up with why she won't start. I just spent two hours with a few friends testing this and that, its gotta be this cause of that that and that or this because etc. etc. :slap:

Here is what I've found, I have good fuel flow from the filter to the rail, and then out of the fuel pressure regulator. I do not know if it is at specified psi, but the volume is at spec.

We pulled plugs and watched the spark, first off when we pulled the plugs they were blackened and wet, these are new plugs, wires and a coil mind you.

The spark was orange or yellow (should be blue right?) and there was no "snap" to them.

This points me to the distributor, but I do not have codes for the top dead center sensor? Can it be weak and not throw a code? :banghead:

any clues?

sam

[Oldblueaccord]

I'm beginning to realize it is easy to justify any ideas that may come up with why she won't start. I just spent two hours with a few friends testing this and that, its gotta be this cause of that that and that or this because etc. etc. :slap:

Here is what I've found, I have good fuel flow from the filter to the rail, and then out of the fuel pressure regulator. I do not know if it is at specified psi, but the volume is at spec.

We pulled plugs and watched the spark, first off when we pulled the plugs they were blackened and wet, these are new plugs, wires and a coil mind you.

The spark was orange or yellow (should be blue right?) and there was no "snap" to them.

This points me to the distributor, but I do not have codes for the top dead center sensor? Can it be weak and not throw a code? :banghead:

any clues?

sam

The resistor out should be showing resiatance with an ohm meter. You can check it at the injector to I think its supposed to be 2.5 k ohms but Im at work so thats a guess.

The spark should be blueish but its really hard to test that way. The ingnitor in the distributor has some tests to check. Mechically I would look at the reluctor gap under the rotor and make sure its not hitting or anything. Also you could check the spark at the coil wire if its hot there then cap/rotor is suspect maybe not the correct part of faulty even if new.

Tell me what brand type coil,plugs you are using? I would stick with stock at this point till its running.

Also to answer the other part of your question. To me red dust in the distrib is just that the bearing is going bad. If it worries you spray some cleaner on it then some type of lube like spray white grease. I did it about 8 years ago and mines still going. I have had my car since 1994 I think. Im pretty sure you can get those bearings and replace them yourself now.

wp

[syclinsam]

I GOT IT!!! I GOT IT!!!!
With the plugs being wet as they were, I went ahead with replacing the distributor (found one for $50)!!!! Put the new (salvaged) one in, she turned over maybe twice and then fired right up and set into a smoooooth idle. I couldn't even believe it!!!

I let her warm up a good long while as I cleaned the tools out of the passanger side and bolted down the dirvers seat. Then I backed er outta the garage and cruised on down some secondary roads. She ran like a champ. Stayed smooth the whole time. No problems with acceleration or staying there once up to speed.

There was, however no gauge lights which i'm assuming is just a fuse or a plug (direct me if i'm wrong) and I think the salvaged main relay that I put in there a few days ago is faulty cause one of the times I shut it down I couldn't restart right away. My fuel pump wasn't kicking on when I turned the key sometimes so I'm gonna take it back and get another (main relay that is).

I am also going to check and change the tranny fluid for good measure as well as flush the cooling system (although she never got anywhere near too hot) but after sitting for two years it won't hurt.

I am going to change the oil and filter again. I changed it once already but now it has to be getting dirty after running all through the engine.


What else should I check or change now that she's running?

thanks again for all your help,

sam :flash:

[offthahook]

I GOT IT!!! I GOT IT!!!!
With the plugs being wet as they were, I went ahead with replacing the distributor (found one for $50)!!!! Put the new (salvaged) one in, she turned over maybe twice and then fired right up and set into a smoooooth idle. I couldn't even believe it!!!

I let her warm up a good long while as I cleaned the tools out of the passanger side and bolted down the dirvers seat. Then I backed er outta the garage and cruised on down some secondary roads. She ran like a champ. Stayed smooth the whole time. No problems with acceleration or staying there once up to speed.

There was, however no gauge lights which i'm assuming is just a fuse or a plug (direct me if i'm wrong) and I think the salvaged main relay that I put in there a few days ago is faulty cause one of the times I shut it down I couldn't restart right away. My fuel pump wasn't kicking on when I turned the key sometimes so I'm gonna take it back and get another (main relay that is).

I am also going to check and change the tranny fluid for good measure as well as flush the cooling system (although she never got anywhere near too hot) but after sitting for two years it won't hurt.

I am going to change the oil and filter again. I changed it once already but now it has to be getting dirty after running all through the engine.


What else should I check or change now that she's running?

thanks again for all your help,

sam :flash:


Your gauge lights are most likely the intesifier thingy. Under your steering wheel, there is a plastic "plate" that you take off. Look for a black box about the size of a pack of cigs. That's it most likely...

[Oldblueaccord]

DuDe thats super. You did a good job at tracing it down.

wp

[shepherd79]

about the relay, take it out, open up, and resolder the connections. it is all you have to do to make it work like new. over time the places where it gets soldered would create hair cracks and that would stop fuel pump to come on. so just take it out and resolder it.
i would check all the fuses, all the light bulbs.

[syclinsam]

offthahook, i was reading your thread last night where you were having trouble with your dash lights, I've printed out the blowup and am going to take a look today. I will check your recommendation first. Thanks

I do have the spare old main relay, I tried to solder it but it is way different then just sweating together copper pipe. I have a buddy who works on elec. in the Navy, next time he is home I'll get a lesson off of him. As for the one I have now it is witin the 30 day return period for the yard and they have another so I'm just gonna take it back get another then solder the original for a glovebox spare.

now I feel that I can be an "official" 3geez member!

thanks again for the help, I'll post some original pics and then progress pics

thanks

sam

[offthahook]

offthahook, i was reading your thread last night where you were having trouble with your dash lights, I've printed out the blowup and am going to take a look today. I will check your recommendation first. Thanks
sam

Yeah, that sucked. My problem on that one was... Two lights that light up the needles. They are on the top of your cluster lid/bezel. A plate pops out, two screws, and you can access them. I had a spare cluster lying around, so I pulled out my old cluster and switched the wiring harness for just those two bulbs (there's a third bulb on that harness, too). Then, I said "fuck it" and bought a used cluster on ebay for $14. It was for a FI 2/3 door AT, which is kinda rare. 65K on it. Got a nice lens from VanillaSky and it looks great and works fine.

Figure if you have any gauge lights-- heat/AC, radio, CC switch, background on the cluster, etc. I had all those lights working, but my needles were not viewable at night. Now, when I first got the whip... that black box was bad and I had NO lights that lit on the dash area. Or it could be a fuse! :bowrofl: