B20a vs H22a please DO NOT DELEte

[ropponmatsu]

Ya, i was looking to upgrade my 89' Lx-i to high performance. Now i hate wasting my money so i dont want to buy a "so-so" engine now and then turn around later and upgrade to a better one. So i guess my question is where could i get like the biggest motor block from. :pc: (so i can build off it)

[BlueBead]

Unless you want to spend big money just to fit something else into the engine bay you should look at turboing an A20 block. New engine internals and a good turbo setup will kick some serious ass, but it costs some bank... Use the search tool to find the turbo guys..(Elijah, Sean...)

[A20A1]

Either A20

or

Dart makes a Closed deck B series... the B20 will have the most displacement... not to say you can't up the displacement of a B18 or B16.

The H22 and H23 have the most stock 4cylinder displacement

The B and H series will have more tunning options because they are DOHC... witch also adds a little more flow with the 4th valve. I beleive they are all open deck though... I only know that the A is closed deck from the factory.

The A20 is the only non hasstle motor to install... unless you get the JDM Accord B20, which is not to be confused with other B20's

[ropponmatsu]

So if money and labor isnt a problem either the H22 or H23 would be the best choice for turboing? is Vtec not good or is it just not as good as DOHC motors?

[johndej]

the way your talking sounds like the 3g is not something youd enjoy modifying (unless you really love your car and are willing to pay to love it more). your options for the least price are making a custom turbo for the A20 motor you already have, or finding a B20 motor (not from a prelude, the ones that go into our cars came in the JDM (the better of the two) and EURO (slightly less hp as i recall) 3rd generation accords)). options of swapping in a diff Bseries or an H series poses many more complications which are you can read about by searching this board for previous postes (your same question has been asked 100s of times so don't worry, the info is out there)

[SteveDX89]

It depends on what you want. If you want all motor power, your best bet is something with a lot of aftermarket support like a B. If you just want power, rebuild and turbo your A20. The only problems with this so far are tuning and getting the full potential of the mod since ECU tuning of A20's ECU is extremely limited.

[ropponmatsu]

well, i guess it would be easier to turbo my current a20. But i just wanted to verify that a20s could be turboed because from what i hear from people whom put turbos on cars is that my current a20 (89 lx-i) cannot be turbod :mad: :pc:

[NXRacer]

your a20 CAN be turbo'd. There are a few members who have daily driver turbo'd a20s. The only real problem right now is the lack of good ECU tuning, but once the OBD1 conversion is readily available to everyone, that won't be a problem anymore. A20s are a cast iron, closed deck block which makes them able to handle boost without sleeves or block guards.

Or you could do like what robt5580 did and install an AEM EMS, but thats gonna run you over a grand just for the EMS and that doesnt include the cost of tuning the system once its installed.

An B swap would be nice for bolt-on availability and high end power, but you have to worry about having a LOT more expensive parts made then if you were to turbo the A20. Nobody makes the mounts or axles anymore for a b swap. As for an H swap, thats going to be even more of a headache and probably end up not being worth the time, hassle and money that would be involved.

[RobT5580]

If you really want a turbo and have the money/time i would highly recommend sticking with your A20A3. Its a lot stronger than b-series and with the money you save from doing a swap you could build a nice bottom end and partial turbo kit. Any modification to this accord is going to take more knowledge on your end so if your serious then start reading. Plus if you can't do the work yourself then i would not do it unless you know of a shop than can. The guys here that are turbo learned from trial and error since there are only a handful of turbo a20's so finding out what works is key and tuning is key with any modified engine. This is where most people skimp and blow stuff up.

[AccordEpicenter]

H series engines have really weak ringlands, like B20Z, and have been known to crack sleeves under boost, posted or not... Ive seen guys crack sleeves on B18s at 240whp... thats not that great. Jonny o has what... around 400whp on the stock block with only forged pistons? Is that right guys? I cant remember. The only part you cant readily get for an A20 turbo is the turbo manifold, but if you have access to a welder you can get the flanges to make your own. Tuning PWNS you, thats how you will make your engine last and get the most power out of it. The only thing that sucks about our accords, as previously mentioned, the ecu sucks ass. If you can swap in a different distributor and computer that you can chip on the stock wiring harness... that might have our problem solved

[A20A1]

well, i guess it would be easier to turbo my current a20. But i just wanted to verify that a20s could be turboed because from what i hear from people whom put turbos on cars is that my current a20 (89 lx-i) cannot be turbod :mad: :pc:

Obviously they don't know how to turbo... any car motor can be turboed "." even some bike motors are turboed.

It's just that some are easier then others to do.

[RobT5580]

Obviously they don't know how to turbo... any car motor can be turboed "." even some bike motors are turboed.

It's just that some are easier then others to do.

Oh yeah i forgot about that part. With that said I definately would take your business elsewhere. If your car is not setup properly you will end up with a unreliable car that is worthless so be sure who ever does the work has experience with turbos and hondas. This is not your ordinary honda so they need to know about the factory sensors and what works best on them.

[ropponmatsu]

ok well im going to buy a motor soon but it has to be DOHC and Vtec and i dont care if i have to get motor mounts, from what i have gathered the best motors would be JDM B20 or a regular b20, (although a H22 or H23 would be better its to much a pain in the a$$).
BUT OMG who has 400hp with no TURBOS!!!!! what engine is that :rofl:

[SteveDX89]

ok well im going to buy a motor soon but it has to be DOHC and Vtec and i dont care if i have to get motor mounts, from what i have gathered the best motors would be JDM B20 or a regular b20, (although a H22 or H23 would be better its to much a pain in the a$$).
BUT OMG who has 400hp with no TURBOS!!!!! what engine is that :rofl:

Haha. You can't get motor mounts. You have to make them. :rolleyes:

[keruhas184]

Jonny o has what... around 400whp on the stock block with only forged pistons? Is that right guys? I cant remember.

He said it was 485whp last summer. But he is running lower times since then, so its probably even faster now. I don't exactly remember about his engine's internals, some guys on here probably have a better idea as to how much his engine is built.

[ropponmatsu]

i think i have changed my mind i want a H22 but can you buy engine mounts for these or do i have to make them my self
OH YA, HEY 480whp What engine block is that (c85????) OMG!!! :)

[shepherd79]

i think i have changed my mind i want a H22 but can you buy engine mounts for these or do i have to make them my self
OH YA, HEY 480whp What engine block is that (c85????) OMG!!! :)

no one makes the motor mounts for B16, B18 or H22, H23 or any other B series or H series motors for OUR CARS.
everything will have to be custom made. Mounts will be custom made for sure. Axels for sure, and much much more.
If you don't know how to fabricate and weld, you are looking at $10K bill right there. just to get the motor into the car and may be running.

[Justin86]

na just build a frank K24. Accord or CRV block with CTR or RSX Type-S head, make a nice swap. Oh yea it will cost easy 8K ;)
sticking with old cast iron side it the best bang for the buck. Next is you B-series swap which are not to cheap 3-7K and they are becoming harder to get.

[buds302]

b18c5 from the integra gsr type-r 195hp stock. but good luck finding one!!!!! if you do dont expect to pay less than about 5 gs for just the engine!

[smufguy]

performance is not cheap, and neither is a different engine swap. I am like two months late to this thread, but point being, do not bother with H and B series since mounts for the B series has been discontinued in production and H series mounts were never made for our cars. As it stands now, any B or H series need to be custom mounted using custom mounts and will take a long time.

Your best bet is to use the search and search for TUrbo A20s and have a decently fast cars that have great top end with boost. Hope this helps.

[ropponmatsu]

ok guys (and any girls) i disagree with almost every thing except for the fact that you will have to customize everything and it will take forever, i dont know where youll think i am planning on getting my engine but i can get a h22 with a transmission for way less (say 2g) so i really dont see where youll think that i am going to be out 10g in addition i own a machine shop for cars so that is tooken care of.
But seroiusly i just wanted to know the h22 (or h23) will give the most Hp right and they are capable of turbos correct. keep in mind here im not worried about the money part cuz i can get these things WAY cheaper than what youll predict. (sorry)
BUT HELLO WHO HAS 400HP AND WTF KINDA ENGINE IS THAT!!!!!!!!! :rofl:

[keruhas184]

BUT HELLO WHO HAS 400HP AND WTF KINDA ENGINE IS THAT!!!!!!!!! :rofl:

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=24970

Its only our stock a20 boosted @ 35 psi :)

[smufguy]

400?? umm it has almost 500whp.

anyway ropponmatsu, If you own a machine shop (the one with the mill, lathe and stuff) and a motor availability of an h22/23 or a B series, well you are on the wrong forum asking questions about a newer motor. Most of us here dont know the mechanics behind it. We might know how it works and what "others" do to it, but have little or no personal experience with them.

Your best bet is to visit 4g accord forums or honda-tech and see what they have for you. Those guys live and breathe B and H.

PS: Also try using the search function, you will get some of your questions answered. Swapping in a motor like a B series and a H series is considerable amount of work since without the support of aftermarket mounts, everything needs to be test fitted and ligned up the way it is supposed to be and it will take time so do not under-estimate this despite the fact whatever skills you might pocess.

NOTE: H22 and H23 may give the most power in the stock form, but B series is a better platform................. seems like now its the K.

[SteveDX89]

ok guys (and any girls) i disagree with almost every thing except for the fact that you will have to customize everything and it will take forever, i dont know where youll think i am planning on getting my engine but i can get a h22 with a transmission for way less (say 2g) so i really dont see where youll think that i am going to be out 10g in addition i own a machine shop for cars so that is tooken care of.
But seroiusly i just wanted to know the h22 (or h23) will give the most Hp right and they are capable of turbos correct. keep in mind here im not worried about the money part cuz i can get these things WAY cheaper than what youll predict. (sorry)
BUT HELLO WHO HAS 400HP AND WTF KINDA ENGINE IS THAT!!!!!!!!! :rofl:

If you can do all that stuff, why did you come here asking about engines? A simple internet search would have provided you with that answer. Anyway, have fun with this. Just because you have a machine doesn't mean it's gonna be easy. You're gonna have to test fit several times, figure out the axle situation, figure out how to hook the shifter to the tranny, and then the wiring. I did the B series swap with the Place Racing kit and it still took 3 weeks to get it running.

[ropponmatsu]

ok, look ppl, i am not trying to say that i will have no problems installing a motor (NOT AT ALL). i just want to know which motor will enivitably give me the most torque/Hp for MAximUm accleration. H22 or a b-series engine or neither (K?). im not talking about work or money just plain and simple which motor can give the most power (i.e. after turboing and stuff). :)

[SteveDX89]

There are so many variables involved that it's hard to say. Just search the net. Check http://www.honda-tech.com. See what setups those guys have and the power that's generated.

[ropponmatsu]

ok since no one really gives me a straight answer im going to propose that the JDM H22 (or H23) will give the most power, following that i will suppose that the B20 will give the second most power. thank you :pc:

[Justin86]

I'd go with the JDM H22 or even a K series

[keruhas184]

i just want to know which motor will enivitably give me the most torque/Hp for MAximUm accleration.

Look buddy, with enough work and $$, any one of these motors will give you as much power as you need. Why don't you go TrOLL on other boards, and come here when you have questions with the swap, or something real to contribute. :lock:

[ropponmatsu]

Yea some moderator closed my other forum so i just wanted to say that i will have a complete engine swap with either a H22a or a "K20a" (i-vtec) done by june of 05'. in the mean time i will be gathering information and all neccesary parts. and for youll that think it takes forever to do one of these engine swaps, i belive (know) that i will complete this engine swap (when i start) in no more than a week (at the maximum). And no im not one of those noobs who just makes stuff up :confused: . and yes I will get pics for EvErYoNe. :flipa:

[SteveDX89]

One week. HAHAHAHAHAHAHA. :bowrofl: :bowrofl: :bowrofl: fuckin noobs.

[88tandx]

took me longer than a week to put a k engine in an ek hatch. and thats one of the more straightforward swaps. this might be the biggest bitch of a swap in honda swap history. id say you're looking at end of summer after you deal with parts and getting the wrong ones and then sending them back and then getting the right ones but they dont fit properly so you gotta fab up something so they do and by the time you go through this with pretty much most of your parts, especially with this swap, you've wasted almost a month if not more. props on the swap but you gotta be realistic and a lot less cocky.

-joe

[racerx]

why don't you set up a cardomain site and get some pics of your car going? show us your motor?

[myaccord7]

yeah

[ropponmatsu]

hehe,
Ok. i will set up a cardoiman site but it will be alittle while cuz i dont own a digital camera im getting one most likely within a couple of weeks so just be pateint. However the only pictures that are going to on thier are pictures of my current A20A3 (wow!). But about my swap i most likely will go with the H22 swap cuz i dont even want to know how expensive a K20 swap would be.
oh ya 88tandx your funny real funny seroius and i believe you swaping a k20 into a 3g accord would defienately be the biggest bitch in 3g honda swaping history! (but it is possible) :)

[racerx]

Anything is possible. Heck, with enough money you could fit a ferarri V12 in there. You'd have to weld in motor mounts, stretch the frame, redo the entire interior, etc, but it's possible.

But, yeah, an H22 shouldn't be as much of a problem.

"A hero is simply the man who decides to do what ordinary men won't."

[Cheeseburger]

ya thats true. good luck man

[NXRacer]

hope you have deep pockets.

[ropponmatsu]

originally posted by racerx
"A hero is simply the man who decides to do what ordinary men won't."
well thanks to youll that believe that i can do this swap be it the H22 or K20. And if i do swap the K20 then i guess i could be considered a "hero". :)
hehe

[smufguy]

June huh? well why would you start a new post in Engine swap when u have not even started it? :uh: damn you. I will be keeping an eye on this post every two weeks and you better have some progress cause all u have is just 3 months, which is about 15 weeks. Unless u cram ur ass, u aint gonna get it done. By now, you should be having a motor at hand and the design and plan sorted out. :ugh:

[ropponmatsu]

its no problem for me to cram i am a theoretical mathematician sooo, this really isnt that big of a deal and if you like i will be more than happy :) to keep you posted on all progress smufguy :welcome:

[Vanilla Sky]

while i don't doubt that it can be done, but with just 3 months until you want it done, you should have your motor in hand, your car ready to be torn down, all the tools gathered, including any specialty tools you may need, and enough materials to finish the swap (axles, linkages, mounts)...

i honestly don't think a motor swap is that big of a deal if you can weld and do some machine work yourself... i mean hell, i've seen people turbo a lawn mower engine, shove a v-8 into a miata, and cram a caddy northstar into a delorean... this is a simple job compared to that...

get the motor fully mounted in the car, and start shooting pictures...

and BTW, whereabouts do you live? i'd like to see this thing in progress, and maybe help out a little if i can

[smufguy]

well mounting is one thing, and getting it working "right" is another. So its gonna be that part that im gonna be looking at....... the working right part. I do not and never have cared for people who attempt new shit, even tho i respect the efforts, me personsonally need form and function which is the result. If you got no result, all ur efforts are just a mere waste.

So good planning, troubleshooting tactics (came up before u start working) and identification of the problem areas are the key to do anything fast, good and right.

ps: Derick, Try a northstart V8 in a late 80s VW GTI bro. now that was mind bogling to me, looking at that shit drive around. whoooooooooooooooo.

[ropponmatsu]

FYI i live in florida so if anyone lives around here and would like to see my progress your more than welcomed to

Ps. crazieness = V8 89' accord :)

[Vanilla Sky]

where in florida? i'm in palatka... there are quite a number of us in florida

[ropponmatsu]

... there are quite a number of us in florida
ive heard of plakta' but i dont think it is near the daytona region

[my86dx4dr]

dude. doing a b16 swap is a joke for most people here,.....Let alone something so custom.... good luck Homeslice,

[Vanilla Sky]

'bout an hour away... about 30 minutes west of st augustine...

[ropponmatsu]

ok, and what do you mean person when you say b16 swaps are jokes??? i myself think it is a waste of time.

[Vanilla Sky]

because around here, general consensus is that by the time you've put in a B16, you've had your a20 turbocharged or at least making as much power as the b16 NA with just "bolt ons"...

i think that it's a good swap, if you plan on modifying the B16 even further...

in the end, if you plan on turbo, the a-series is probably the cheapest build-up of all the honda motors

[my86dx4dr]

ok, and what do you mean person when you say b16 swaps are jokes??? i myself think it is a waste of time.
B16 is more compatable, It can be done without mounts if you know how to pre fab, Its been done, whats a waiste of time is posting that your gonna do k20 in a 3g, :bowrofl:

Have fun :kekeke:

[ropponmatsu]

well i must admit that it doesnt look like im going to be putting in a K20 its to much money and for the same price i could maybe turbo my JDM H22a, so no i really dont think i will be puttingin a K20. :) and whats with this talk of B16 who ever started it i think they have the wrong forum

[Vanilla Sky]

do you already have the h22?

oh, and did you see that post over in pics with the h22 3gee?

[ropponmatsu]

Hi, i need some h22 mounts for an 89 accord Lx-i. name a resonable price and im sure ill take it. i will pay good $$$$
thank You!!!!!!! :uh:

[Vinny]

No one makes them. It would be a total custom job and only 3 or so members have even attempted it.

Try searching next time

http://www.3geez.com/showthread.php?t=4395

http://www.3geez.com/search.php?searchid=172893

[ropponmatsu]

Thank youuuu... (being sarcastic)
but what i mean is does any one have any from A custom job that they would like to sell?

[Vinny]

Locked before you are insulted by the masses

[ropponmatsu]

i dont have the h22 yet cuz im waiting to see how difficult this is going to be. where i stand now is that i need to find some sort of custom mounts. Thats why im looking for the people who have actually done this swap so that i can get some pointerz off them and maybe make some sort of deal.......

[Vanilla Sky]

well, can you weld or can you afford to have the mounts custom made?

since you're just down in daytona, you could come up here... i have a car up here with an empty engine bay, and i'll sell you the engine cradle for $20 so you can start work on it...

your best bet is to buy a whole prelude front clip... maybe even a whole prelude parts car... that way you get the wiring and all the electronics, too...

[racerx]

Yeah, i definately agree with Vanilla. Your biggest problem is not getting the engine in the bay, it's making all the electrical stuff work and fit.

A front clip would probably be good, but I think the whole parts car would be best.

You know, somebody just found a 3rd Gen accord with an H22 in it. I think it might be in the accord pics forum...

So, yeah, best bet would be the parts car, and lots of time and money. What's your budget?

[shepherd79]

there were only two H22 swaps done in our cars. I was finished and the one never got finished. Both guys haven't been on the board for along time.

[SteveDX89]

i dont have the h22 yet cuz im waiting to see how difficult this is going to be. where i stand now is that i need to find some sort of custom mounts. Thats why im looking for the people who have actually done this swap so that i can get some pointerz off them and maybe make some sort of deal.......

Haha, you need to wake up from fantasy land. ONLY 3-5 PEOPLE HAVE ATTEMPTED THIS SWAP. THEY ARE NOT FREQUENT BOARD VISITORS. You would probably get more answers and help by talking to the wall.

[Vanilla Sky]

even though i've not done the swap, i'd probably be quite a bit of help... dude, just get in touch with me and lets meet up at my place, take some measurements, then go to the junkyard and take more... we'll get an h22 in here if you have the money to get all the parts to do it proper...

[smufguy]

i dont have the h22 yet cuz im waiting to see how difficult this is going to be. where i stand now is that i need to find some sort of custom mounts.

ill be the hard head and give you 35% of success rate. WHy? cause its not gonna be done in two months as per your deadline. From the begining i had a feeling you underestimated this project. i promised that i will keep an eye on your progress and its been a week already and ur at the same place as before. you got about 14 more weeks to go. It was given fact that you need "custom mounts" regardless and you sound like it came to you as a discovery.

All i can say is that, with the given amount of time, i wish you all the luck in the world. Get the motor, its your first step. Drop it in and line it up. take measurements and do your own stuff. Do not wait around and try to get pointers cause all you will be getting is personal opinion since people who have H22 motors are not members of the forum.......... atleast i have not seen them to be active.

[ropponmatsu]

yea, well the people that were supposed to be helping me with this swap have doubts now (mounts). But i think i will get a junk accord and place the H22 in there so that i can get all the measurements and so that i can hopefully pull my current motor out and replace it with the h22 and already have all the measurements. or i could replace it with a prelude front end, or...... i'll figure something out :uh:

[SteveDX89]

I would say get an Accord front clip and a Prelude front clip. Sit them beside each other and go at it that way.

I'm not as big of a dick as you might think. I congratulate you for being steadfast in this swap decision and wish you luck. One more running H22 Accord is a great thing.

[Vanilla Sky]

i have a shell you can buy

[Oldblueaccord]

i have a shell you can buy


I think the f22 out of the newer accords have the same mounts??? those should be cheap. I looked at a Prelude last month for $900 but it was the h23 there prices are falling. I too would get the whole car if you could.

You could make the mounts outta plywood then take them to a weld shop and get them made. Any weld shop could do it for you. You can rent migs by the day here from Air gas if you wanted to take a crack at it yourself.


wp

[Vanilla Sky]

yeah, the h22 is a direct swap for the f22...

and FYI, even h22 ludes ehre in running, operating, road worth condition are only about $3500... i'm very sure he can get a running parts car for less than a third of that... just gotta call up junkyards and talk to friends...

[SHURIK]

h22 is a compleet no go with a g3 a g4 will work a g3 even efi dosent have all the other emition wiriing shit that comes with the h22 u will need a whole wiering harnes that comes wqith the h22 and u will have to splise it in and its a big paine in the ass i knew a guy who was trying one on a carbs civic he dropt like 2 and a half geez and the thing woldent work wee coldent get the wiers sorted out it cranket and wee had no spark then spark then no fule found fule then the fuses started burning
the car never ran then the ecu got fried and the guy sold it for 2 grand for some one els to finish it so its not worth it get a after market cam for ur stock motor polish ur head and port it get a biger t/b or a webber if ur carbd dont bother with a motor swap unles ur loaded with cash and cant care where u wasete it

[mouchyn]

holy bad grammar, batman!

the wiring is the easiest part of the h22 swap. For those capable enough to even try the swap, wiring is easy.

[racerx]

yeah, all you have to do is take off your fenders, tear apart your dash, and viola!

no actually, it's not as bad as it sounds. he's right, it's not hard to run harness wires.

The hard part is finding all the right wires/ecu/intermediate harnesses/etc.

At least, that's what I would think.

Actually, I think the whole thing sounds like the hard part. :D

[Neuspeed87lx]

ok so you think a b16 swap is a waste of time ? but the amount of time and money you will need to spend putting a h22 or (LOL) a k20 in a 3g isnt a waste of time !? please do us all a favor and dont post about this anymore untill you have pictures .

[bobafett]

i dont really care about this worthless thread, but i just wanted to throw in my IBTL...

i have a sneaky feeling this just isnt going to happen... but i would be happy to be proved wrong... so come along with those pics now... ;-)

[bullard123]

even though i've not done the swap, i'd probably be quite a bit of help... dude, just get in touch with me and lets meet up at my place, take some measurements, then go to the junkyard and take more... we'll get an h22 in here if you have the money to get all the parts to do it proper...

Man Vanilla, You are one devoted 3 geer. You are always willing to lend a helping hand. Rock on man.

[Vanilla Sky]

yeah, but i believe he gave up on the idea... too much to handle for someone that doesn't know a whole lot about cars

[Priest]

Well, Vanilla I am interested in this swap and I'm in Jacksonville. Right outside of Orange Park. So, when I get around to starting this I would take any help I can get. I'll be honest and say I know pretty much jack shit about swapping engines, much less anything. I'm know the very basics and I'm learning more everyday. Also, a guy I work with said he has a friend that has two h22a's sitting there waiting for a swap. I'm supposed to find out how much he wants for one soon.

Either way, if you want to be a part of this I welcome the help.

[SteveDX89]

Well, Vanilla I am interested in this swap and I'm in Jacksonville. Right outside of Orange Park. So, when I get around to starting this I would take any help I can get. I'll be honest and say I know pretty much jack shit about swapping engines, much less anything. I'm know the very basics and I'm learning more everyday. Also, a guy I work with said he has a friend that has two h22a's sitting there waiting for a swap. I'm supposed to find out how much he wants for one soon.

Either way, if you want to be a part of this I welcome the help.

This will be one fun experience. :kekeke:

[Vanilla Sky]

i'd love to be part of it... first thing, though, ask if you can borrow an engine for sizing... i'd like to see how one would sit in our engine bay... i have a stripped accord we can try it in sittin in my yard...

and steve, i'm willing to bet that in the end, it's just gonna be way too expensive for most of us, or way too much work for most of us...

[ropponmatsu]

ok heres my question which has more Hp stock the JDM h22a or the JDM b20a.
Secondly, which one of these motors can handle the most psi.
Thirdly which one over all has the potential to be the more power ful one (i mean 1/4mile)
*mods please dont delete my post to quickly atleast give me two days then wipe it off you forums like it never existed* Please thank you

[my86dx4dr]

Dude. h22a has more power. And niether can handle more "psi" then the other. on stock internals dont run more then 7-9psi..

Sounds like what you need to do is visit some Prelude forums. and ask them this question. do a little research man.

Second. you CANNOT pick one or the other to have more potential. with endless cash you still get the same thang. its all about how well they're built.

yeah. So you really need to do some research.

[NXRacer]

stock for stock, the h22 will run circles around the B20a, but you're going to pay a LOT more money to have the H22 in and running, then you would the B20.

[A20A1]

This does not belong in research and development.

[Priest]

i'd love to be part of it... first thing, though, ask if you can borrow an engine for sizing... i'd like to see how one would sit in our engine bay... i have a stripped accord we can try it in sittin in my yard...

and steve, i'm willing to bet that in the end, it's just gonna be way too expensive for most of us, or way too much work for most of us...

Agreed.

I didn't find out about the engine yet. I didn't get a chance to ask my co worker. He has a 5th Gen Lude, though I doubt he'll let me borrow it and pull the engine out. lol

[Vanilla Sky]

well, you said he had them sitting, so i kinda assumed they were pulled already... if you could get a hold of a bad h series, that would be better because it wouldn't be as much of a money loss if it doesn't work

[mouchyn]

let it be known that both engines arne't known to handle boost well. the H22 is known to have oiling problems when stressed with forced induction. the b20a stands up to boost a little better in that respect, but it is an overall weaker engine.

if you really want to get crazy with the turbo (more than 10 psi reliably), i would go with something like the b17 or b18 -- maybe even b20b/z if you can afford it.

[89ACCORDVTECH]

Get an h23 with a h22 vtec dohc head its alot of work but you will have 240hp stock but dont tell no one. because everyone on this site thinks its impossible but its not if you take the head to a machine shop.

[88accordhb]

b18b turbo, don't go vtec head or anything like that.

[Hash_man_Se_i]

I voted B20... I remember one member Dyno'd his accord and I believe he was 140 whp with the b20....

I know locally people with I/H/E on their 5th gen prelude's have put down a weak 130-140 whp reading. The H22 motor is a terrible platform IMO.

[Oldblueaccord]

Get an h23 with a h22 vtec dohc head its alot of work but you will have 240hp stock but dont tell no one. because everyone on this site thinks its impossible but its not if you take the head to a machine shop.


Nice sig. I wont tell.

wp

[SteveDX89]

Get an h23 with a h22 vtec dohc head its alot of work but you will have 240hp stock but dont tell no one. because everyone on this site thinks its impossible but its not if you take the head to a machine shop.

Who said it's impossible? I've even told someone on this site who also has an H23 Prelude to do it.


ropponmatsu, before you make another thread or post on this website, tell us all right now what your intent for this car is. Street car, drag car (track only), dyno queen? The most hp is not the most important thing in a street car. 350 whp is about max. Another over and you can't control it.

[mouchyn]

most hp is not the most important thing in a street car. 350 whp is about max. Another over and you can't control it.

meh. a better way to say it is you won't ever use it safely or legally. any experienced precision driver can handle more than 350 whp. You just won't ever have to on public roads unless you're driving like an idiot. if you're driving like an idiot, then you have bigger things to worry.

[ropponmatsu]

originally posted by SteveDX89:
before you make another thread or post on this website, tell us all right now what your intent for this car is.
Actually im not sure, but im hoping on having like overall a very fast honda, (for street) so that i can piss on mustangs and get put in magizines. In addition i would never be satisfied with only 350hp. Does this answer your question????! :)

[Vinny]

Aren't you getting a 4th gen accord? Can we PLEASE stop creating BS threads every day

[mouchyn]

yeah, it kinda does answer the question. if all you want is a fast street car, why not buy one? turning an old accord into a 400 hp rocket isn't going to be reliable -- especially with the way you'll probably drive it.

pushing those kinds of numbers in your accord or any honda, really, isn't going to last very long. so, unless you plan on rebuilding engines every 10k miles, and doing endless maintenance, i would buy something else to go fast in.

what's your budget like? it better be in the 10's of thousands to take on a project like a magazine-worthy 350+ hp honda.

[ropponmatsu]

i dont know where you get that i am getting a 4g accord.
whatever
Ok, im not so worried about getting in a magazine as i am about killing mustangs. That sure is going to suck though rebuilding my engine every 10k miles s*** :uh:

[mouchyn]

why not sell your accord and buy something a little more suited to compete with the ponies? something with potential and RWD, maybe.

rx7? 240sx? mustang?

if you can't beat 'em (cheaply), join 'em!

[NXRacer]

i dont know where you get that i am getting a 4g accord.
whatever
Ok, im not so worried about getting in a magazine as i am about killing mustangs. That sure is going to suck though rebuilding my engine every 10k miles s*** :uh:
if you want to beat mustangs, you're gonna have to drive something with more potential or spend a lot of money. 20 yr old grocery getters arent exactly a good platform to start with if your goal is to walk mustangs. :uh:

[Vinny]

i dont know where you get that i am getting a 4g accord.
whatever
Ok, im not so worried about getting in a magazine as i am about killing mustangs. That sure is going to suck though rebuilding my engine every 10k miles s*** :uh:


I'm getting it from what you have posted


ok im getting a newer car a 4g honda. so if anyone would like to point me in the right direction (that is a forum for 4g hondas) i would appreciate it. im temperarily given up on putting a h22 in my 3g and im putting it in my 4g and i have some very mionor questions and i know alot of people get aggravated on hear if you ask off topic qeustion or question that can be found through the search button soooo, im adking for some direction here
Thank You :sadwave:


LINK (http://3geez.com/showthread.php?t=42915)

Why don't you do some research as to what exactly it is you want in a car and what the costs will be for the project before you post a thread next time. If you have no idea what is is you want to do or how much you can spend theres no way we can help you. As far as the 350whp honda engine goes you better have REALLY deep pockets

[ropponmatsu]

ok i think this post is becoming off topic. this post was not a long tedoius rembremand for me it was simply which engine is better H22 or B20. More specifically i just wanted to know which one could hold more pressure, and im talking theoritically here, like how thick is the block, this has nothing to do with the stock motor (psi wise) its just simply in THE END which motor could handly more pressure??? :uh:

[mouchyn]

which ever one you build better is the answer to that question. to handle any real amount of boost, you're going to have to sleeve the engines. once you do that, it's not a honda engine anymore. the h22 block is not going to physically hold more boost than the b20 and vice versa. it would take hundreds of pounds of boost to physically break the blocks from turbo pressure. you wouldn't ever have to worry about that because you couldn't ever tune the engine to combust those kinds of pressures. the mixture would detonate and destroy the rings, rods, and valves. that's the case with ANY engine, not just a honda.

the problems you're going to run into are the strengths of the moving and connecting parts. that means you would have to upgrade the pistons, rods, bearings, crank, etc. once you do that, it doesn't matter what engine its in. It's not honda parts, so the block doesn't matter. Forged aftermarket rods in an h22 is the same as forged aftermarket rods in a b20. it's all in how you build the engine -- not how honda designed the engine. honda designed the engine for naturally aspirated operation. once you boost the block, hondas engineering reasons go out the window.

long story short, they are the same.

it's for that very reason i said that if you wanted to go crazy with the boost, you should use a newer b series engine like the b18. that way you'll be able to find upgraded parts easier, cheaply rebuild the engine WHEN it blows, etc.

displacement really only matters when you're naturally aspirated. turbos literally force displacement into the engine, so the .2 or .4 L difference between the b18 and the engines you listed could easily be made up for with more pressure. All you have to do is build/tune it right.

[RobT5580]

The B20A doesnt have to be sleeved for boost. A guy on the prelude board has been pushing 22PSI for over a year now with only a blown headgasket after 8 months and its daily driven. So far the problems i have had were not from boost itself so i cant say how it will hold up. Im going to run my up to 17PSI for the summer then work it up in the fall providing it holds up fine.

And you cant say you cant build a reliable honda with high horsepower and daily driven. If you look at all the hacked up setups then i see your point but if you look at the many well built/tuned ones they are doing just fine and going strong. In the past year iv seen a lot of 500hp+ hondas roll out and they are the ones that were built properly. Sure you will snap axles and such but how can you not expect that with that kinda power.

As for the H22 its a nice motor and can make crazy horsepower at lower boost levels but it has to be done right or it will be a problem. Also you cant drop forged pistons in them w/o a sleeve job because of the material used so thats a downfall if you dont plan on spending money on a sleeve job. Bottom line is you need money to make power and the right r&d will pay off in the long run.

[mouchyn]

why can't you drop forged pistons into an H22? it has the same FRM sleeves as all the other honda engines post 1990. The b21a1 was the first engine to have that type of engine. If you use stock-sized forged pistons, you just need new rings and it's just like putting stock pistons back in.

if you wanted to hone the cylinders to make a new seat for the new rings (recommended), there's a special honing stone for FRM sleeves.

remember the h22 in a mostly stock form has oiling problems at high power levels. they generally don't last long.

the b20a does have an all-metal sleeve, but that won't reliably handle high power levels -- especially with it's long stroke. The more power you have, the more the pistons are going to push against the sides of the cylinder walls in line with the crank movement (sideload). Over time, this will make the relatively soft stock sleeves out-of-round. It'll work for a while, but it's certainly not the right way to do things. If you want to get technical about it, the H22's FRM sleeves are actually stronger and will resist unevenly shaped wearing much better than the b20'a all-metal sleeves. That's why FRM sleeves are used. They are thinner, resis heat better, and are stronger than the all-metal sleeves used before. They also happen to be cheaper to make. If you look at any high milage FRM sleeved engine, you won't see hardly any marks or wearing on the walls. The FRM will chew up rings WAY before the walls get worn down at all. Physically, the FRM sleeves are a better setup.

that was the problem with the b21a1. Honda didn't quite have the technology figured out. The ring material they used didn't hold up well to the FRM walls. The rings created high friction levels against the super-strong FRM sleeves and just got eaten away. My first 3G prelude had a b21a1 in it and the sleeves looked BRAND NEW after 300k miles. I didn't even have to hone it. I put new rings on the stock pistons and it had perfect compression after the break in. It's still running strong. I see it around town occasionally.

which prelude board are you talking about? I know at preludepower.com (where i'm a moderator), there are like two users with boosted b20s. tonybaker and low12s are the only two, i think.

it's also important to remember that on these 4 cylinder engines, 1psi of pressure is going to add about 10HP at the flywheel -- give or take. That means 22 psi is just under 200 HP added at the wheels. Add that to the stock power rating and you're just around 350 whp. He said that he would never be satisfied with 350whp. hence the reason i mentioned sleeving. if you're going to be running that kind of boost on boost on a daily basis, there's no denying the correct way to do it is to get stronger aftermarket sleeves.

[RobT5580]

I meant the H23's but i was under the impression H22's used the same sleeves. And Tony Baker was the one i reffered to since his is a daily driver. Iv talked to many 3rd gen luders before that have been boosted over the past few years and the sleeves seem to work ok. Its been questionable if the B20A can be sleeved properly with aftermarket sleeves which i thought about but have been talked out of by ERL performance. Time will tell on how well mine holds up since im the only one that has gone all out with a turbo accord B20A.

And i guess to answer your poll hands down the H22 will produce more power because it can do it at much lower levels of boost. Personally going through what i have been if i had known what i have done i would probably have done a new b-series simply because parts are cheaper and they have the r&d to make a very reliable boosted engine. But there's no turning back so im going to keep testing the b20a until i catch a break but at this point i cant see anything else but time will tell.

[mouchyn]

the H23 is a MUCH better engine for boost than the H22. The H22 falls apart under pressure while the H23 wil chug along just fine at 12 psi on stock internals.

[ropponmatsu]

YEAH! i just purchased a JDM H22a, and based on the results this is a good decision.
Peace! :)

[masterkillalw]

I voted B20... I remember one member Dyno'd his accord and I believe he was 140 whp with the b20....

I know locally people with I/H/E on their 5th gen prelude's have put down a weak 130-140 whp reading. The H22 motor is a terrible platform IMO.


HUMMM...MAYBE CUZ 5th GENS CAME WITH AN H23!!!


oh yea and dude head over to www.preludepower.com to learn all u really can about h23's and h22's...me I would get a B18A1 and put a B18C5 head on it run LS/Vtec and then turbo that...seems a lot easier to do it that way then any other way...

[mouchyn]

uhhh, the 5th gen preludes never came with the h23. they only came with the h22 vtec.

the 4th gen SI was the h23. the 4th gen VTEC was also the h22.

that 140 whp on a modded h22 is pretty weak, though. I made that with my crappy b20a.

[ropponmatsu]

whatever, i belive my H22 has more than 140whp?. what motor is this that you are talking about is it the H22a4??

[RobT5580]

whatever, i belive my H22 has more than 140whp?. what motor is this that you are talking about is it the H22a4??

I think he is referring to wheel horse power on a dyno which is not the same as hp at the flywheel.

[mouchyn]

I think he is referring to wheel horse power on a dyno which is not the same as hp at the flywheel.

even still, a modded h22 should not be making 140 whp on a dyno. there's is something very wrong with that engine if is only making 140 whp. i would expect that from a higher milage stock h22, but not a modded one. A modded H22 should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 170-180 whp.

[racerx]

Get an h23 with a h22 vtec dohc head its alot of work but you will have 240hp stock but dont tell no one. because everyone on this site thinks its impossible but its not if you take the head to a machine shop.

Why bother? You can just get an H23A (vtec head) with 225hp from Japan.

I don't know about 240hp though. If you take an H22 head and put it on an H23 block via a machinist, he'll probably do a P&P and 3-angle valve job too, which would put you around 240hp.

Anyway, it would be much more economical and reliable to just get the H23A.

[racerx]

even still, a modded h22 should not be making 140 whp on a dyno. there's is something very wrong with that engine if is only making 140 whp. i would expect that from a higher milage stock h22, but not a modded one. A modded H22 should be somewhere in the neighborhood of 170-180 whp.

agreed. stock whp on a good engine should be in the neighborhood of 165 (200hp verison)

[ropponmatsu]

Originally posted by racerx:
agreed. stock whp on a good engine should be in the neighborhood of 165 (200hp verison)

And i too agree.