dsm injectors?????

[adams86lxi]

Alright since my car is down right now i have been thinking up a better fuel management sytem for my car. I was thinking of maybe my fmu, bigger fuel pump and some bigger injectors would be good but i know you can make dsm injectors work with hondas but what moddifications need to be done for it all to work good??? I head something like you need to use resisters to get them to work but i have no idea??? Does anyone have any knowledge of doing this and btw how big of injectors do i need????

[mouchyn]

what kind of setup do you have? i assume you're boosted. how much boost? what other mixture management tools do you have?

[smufguy]

how much boost are you gonna be running? if you are gonna run even a max of 15psi, u can be satisfied with 450cc injectors. DSMs came in 450cc injectors. if you are gonna use less than that, u can still use those injectors, or get the 360cc from a VR4 3000GT, but they are hard to find (the car i mean). so ur 450cc injectors are fine. just get them from the junkard, send it out to get it cleaned and balanced for $25 each and thats only $100 for a set. Or u can prowl thru DSM forums to find a fairly used 450s.

as for the resistors to run these high flow injectors, someone posted a link from the Honda-Tech of how to do it. THe first gen DSMs did come with resistor box and u gotta use that (its on their firewall) to operate these injectors. . also they should test at 2-3ohms at 68deg F

you defenitely need to convert to OBD-1 to control these injectors the right way.

if you look atht eht 6-49 chassis electical section of a 1990-94 turbo motor, it says that the injectors are controlled by the box and the box is wired up to the egr solonoid valve and then it runs to the ECM. So u might have to pull the egr valve too. (this was done only on the california model).

PS: are you telling me you did not upgrade the fuel pump and the injectors when u were boosted???????? dude...................

[adams86lxi]

how much boost are you gonna be running? if you are gonna run even a max of 15psi, u can be satisfied with 450cc injectors. DSMs came in 450cc injectors. if you are gonna use less than that, u can still use those injectors, or get the 360cc from a VR4 3000GT, but they are hard to find (the car i mean). so ur 450cc injectors are fine. just get them from the junkard, send it out to get it cleaned and balanced for $25 each and thats only $100 for a set. Or u can prowl thru DSM forums to find a fairly used 450s.

as for the resistors to run these high flow injectors, someone posted a link from the Honda-Tech of how to do it. THe first gen DSMs did come with resistor box and u gotta use that (its on their firewall) to operate these injectors. . also they should test at 2-3ohms at 68deg F

you defenitely need to convert to OBD-1 to control these injectors the right way.

if you look atht eht 6-49 chassis electical section of a 1990-94 turbo motor, it says that the injectors are controlled by the box and the box is wired up to the egr solonoid valve and then it runs to the ECM. So u might have to pull the egr valve too. (this was done only on the california model).

PS: are you telling me you did not upgrade the fuel pump and the injectors when u were boosted???????? dude...................


I only want to push a maxium of 7psi. I went to 15 psi by accident. I was wondering exactly what would be the best setup for 5-7 psi.

[smufguy]

well adamn, to be safe, run 450cc injectors with the 1g DSM resistor box. They run stock 11psi and people still push about 19 to 20 psi on their 14b turbos with the same injectors.

along with the 450ccs, u need to get a 190lbs/hr pump, adjustable fuel pressure regulator, MSD ignition, Denso plugs or NGK BPR7 colder plugs.

[Accordtheory]

You don't need 450s for only 7psi. But if you want to upgrade anyway, so you won't have to in the future, the 450s are the blue tops from the 1st gen 5spd eclipse. You're going to need some electronics to control them, (not the dsm resistor box though, the factory accord injectors are peak & hold too) because they exceed the factory ecu's 30% correction factor, not to mention the factory ecu doesn't work with boost. I think I might have a set of 450s lying around..if I do, how much $ would you want them for?

[smufguy]

he does not even need that T3 50 for only 7psi. He can run a bike turbo and be happy with it, lol. i was gonna say 370ccs, but hell 450s r available in any junkyard.

[Accordtheory]

and you don't need to upgrade the fuel pump with 7psi either, as long as you're not using a bs rrfpr. I ran more than 7psi with it, and I was running rich as fuck under boost. The stock pump is good to over 200hp n/a. If you want my opinion, to add up to 100hp, keep all your shit stock, and use supplemental injection, with 2 450cc injectors. Get the 034efi injector controller (300$), wire it up to your crank angle sensor, mount the injectors in your charge pipe right before your TB, tangent to the airflow, get an msd BTM, set it to a little over 1 deg/psi, and tune that shit to run about 11.5: afr under boost with a wideband. To fool the stock honda map sensor, go to radio shack, get a voltage regulator, set it to the same output as your stock map sensor under atmospheric, and connect it to the sensor output to limit the voltage input to the computer under boost. (easy) Of course you need other upgrades, exhaust, etc, but your shit will be fast, and your stock driveability/mpg will be unaffected. How do I know about this? Because I did it, before I went to a different management system.

[Elijah]

Another good thing is the SMT 6 to use to manage those injectors I picked one up today. But you will need a laptop but you can get the SMT 6 for around $500 canadian mabey less I paid $450 it also controlls ignition its a nice little unit.

here is a link if you want to research it abit www.perfectpower.com

[AccordEpicenter]

you could do what accordtheory is saying, my setup is around the same price. If you wanna run 450cc injectors, just make the seals that fit in the intake manifold bigger (sand them out) thats it, the stock computer and wiring and fuel rail and all that shit are just fine for running them if you have a piggyback fuel controller. We already have a resistor box and are made to use peak hold injectors, so basically all we did was get a bigger injector. I use 450CC dsm injectors (bluetops), 255LPH intank walbro (its too big i think, but for boost a bigger pump will help, the stock pump maxes out at like 200hp... its like 70lph) umm i run an SAFC and a msd BTM and its been pretty good for driveabilty and adjustability, far better than an fmu could EVER be. Also bigger injectors will run like shit with an FMU setup. The 450cc injectors are good to roughly 300whp. Time to get real managemant adam... you dont wanna be pulling this engine apart again.

[adams86lxi]

alright cool. So all i need to do is just get some and there just plug and play no need for any extra resisters or anything good. So 450s wont be over kill for 5-7 psi?? And no matter what i need a safc to control them??? How user friendly is a safc??? How hard are they to hook up? I want one bad. Would it be better then my current setup to run just a safc with stock injectors???

[Elijah]

You should really concider a SMT6 you wont need a BTM it controlls timeing to. Do a little reasearch before you spend the money. If you decide to go with AFC and BTM I will give you mine for cheap still. Where I got my SMT6 I can get more or you can they had 2 more in stock its my friends shop. www.apexmodified.com

[AccordEpicenter]

you cant run the safc and stock injectors for boost, youll need the 450ss, or at least 390s... I dont know too much about the smt6 but if its a good piggyback, go ahead and use it.

[adams86lxi]

well i think the 450s would be over kill for what i need (5-7psi) So i think im going to go with the dsm 390cc injectors from the automatic ones. Do you guys think i could run some 390s with out a safc or any other form of management until i get one???

Also what model, years and stuff did the 390s come in so i can ask for them at the junkyard???

[AccordEpicenter]

i think 1G and 2g DSM turbo/automatic cars. The 390s will work just fine in piggyback setup (SMT6 or SAFC/VAFC), just dont try and use them with an fmu

[adams86lxi]

You should really concider a SMT6 you wont need a BTM it controlls timeing to. Do a little reasearch before you spend the money. If you decide to go with AFC and BTM I will give you mine for cheap still. Where I got my SMT6 I can get more or you can they had 2 more in stock its my friends shop. www.apexmodified.com


Elijah the sight isnt working? I want to check it out alittle more. How much would you want for the btm?? I might want to get it sometime. I have no idea what they sell for new??

[smufguy]

Elijah the sight isnt working? I want to check it out alittle more. How much would you want for the btm?? I might want to get it sometime. I have no idea what they sell for new??

http://www.apexmodified.ca its not apexmodified.com .

[Robs89LXi]

You should really concider a SMT6 you wont need a BTM it controlls timeing to. Do a little reasearch before you spend the money. If you decide to go with AFC and BTM I will give you mine for cheap still. Where I got my SMT6 I can get more or you can they had 2 more in stock its my friends shop. www.apexmodified.com

Elijah, are you saying this SMT6 will piggyback off our stock PJ-0 ECU's? Does it use our distributor crank trigger? I'd like to know more about the details, specific to our cars. I was assuming it would only work with OBD-1 ECUs.

[Elijah]

Elijah, are you saying this SMT6 will piggyback off our stock PJ-0 ECU's? Does it use our distributor crank trigger? I'd like to know more about the details, specific to our cars. I was assuming it would only work with OBD-1 ECUs.


It works with anycar. I will have it installed in a week or so and give an update on it

[Robs89LXi]

Great. Yeah, I'm real interested in that unit, but all the research I've done on it shows it using OBD-1 ECUs. Be sure to document how you wire it real well, so that if it works good, you can add our cars to their list. Thanks.

[AccordEpicenter]

obd 1 piggybacks seem to work with obd 0 cars just as easily... i bet you could even get a Field Vtec controller to work just fine on our cars... but the safc/vafc is more tuneable and reliable

[Robs89LXi]

obd 1 piggybacks seem to work with obd 0 cars just as easily... i bet you could even get a Field Vtec controller to work just fine on our cars... but the safc/vafc is more tuneable and reliable

What piggyback are you refering to? I've yet to see one that would work with our vaccum advanced distributor. How would it control the timing?

[AccordEpicenter]

most piggacks control fuel primarily... i guess its like a BTM and a fuel controller in one. I run my SAFC with a btm... not a prob

[Robs89LXi]

Yeah, I see now that is probably what he will be doing, but that is a bit pricey for me for just fuel. I want spark/timing management too. I'm still planning to do the obd-1 conversion, so maybe I'll still look into piggybacking off of that.

[AccordEpicenter]

if your going obd 1, it would be a waste to use a piggyback, the tuning tools offered in obd 1 thru chipping (UBERDATA) are FAR more powerful as a tuning tool than a piggyback... Eventually ill go obd1 too, but i might put that off until i go BIG boost... (12+psi)

[AccordEpicenter]

:uh:

[Robs89LXi]

:uh: ?

Anyway, yeah, Uberdata is one of my considerations also. Hey, you can't beat free, right? But I've heard some people complain about it also. One of the features I like on the SMT is that it allows real time tuning, and though I have not checked in awhile, I don't remember Uberdata offering that yet. Like all these programs though, the proof is in the pudding. Until I actually get one and try it, I guess I won't realy know. Not having to burn a chip each time is also nice when you want to change profiles. Has anyone on this board actually used Uberdata (on any car)?

[AccordEpicenter]

i helped my buddy tune his ls/vtec with it, very powerful program but you really have to know what youre doing to use it. You can tune real time with a rom emulator but theyre kind of expensive... like $200. I hear there is a different way to do it for like $30-$40 using some sort of different memory chip on the ecu but havent tried it.

[Robs89LXi]

i helped my buddy tune his ls/vtec with it, very powerful program but you really have to know what youre doing to use it. You can tune real time with a rom emulator but theyre kind of expensive... like $200. I hear there is a different way to do it for like $30-$40 using some sort of different memory chip on the ecu but havent tried it.

Since you've seen it, how hard would you say it would be for a first timer? Would it be something you would try on your own, or would you have paid the money and have an expert do it?

[AccordEpicenter]

depends how knowledgeable you are... id def doo all kinds of research to understand what your doing. If you were a first timer and didnt know too much and trying to tune a turbo car... id pay to have someone else do it, its cheaper than a new engine. Unless youre REALLY good at guessing (im so-so) id definitley tune with a wideband a/f sensor so you know where you stand on things, a bad tune will damage the engine esp if its turbo... just ask all the guys that have blown engines turbo... mines holding soo far (9-10psi like 5000 miles on it soo far, VERY conservative tune)

[Robs89LXi]

... just ask all the guys that have blown engines turbo... mines holding soo far (9-10psi like 5000 miles on it soo far, VERY conservative tune)

Yeah, but that's 'cause they've got B's, not A's :Owned2: :kekeke:

Seriously though, I've never done it either, but I'm the type to go slow and research a bunch before I do anything. Hell, I don't even have my engine back together yet, then I've got to do the OBD conversion, and only then will I be trying this. So you can see, I like to plan ahead. I was hoping someone else would beat me to it though, so maybe I could learn from them. Go spend some more time with your buddy, okay :lol: ?

[AccordEpicenter]

well 88turboaccord and accortheory have both blown turbo A series... justin at 8psi and accordtheory at 10 or 12 i think. Id spend more time with my bud but he killed his motor 2 days ago... overreved to 9500 and spun a rod bearing... stock ls bottom end (stock redline is 6500... he was pushing it on the stock bottom end) too bad his civic was slow before he killed it anyway, he has spent alot of time watching my taillights. You should download uberdata and just try messing with the fuel and timing tables on the stock gsr map... you learn alot just by messing with the program itself.

[Robs89LXi]

Yeah, good advice. I've got a version of Chrome, but have not gotten a chance to look at it yet. I'll try Uberdata sometime. I'd like to find a wideband O2 sensor for our cars too.. any leads?

[AccordEpicenter]

you can bolt the wideband 02 sensor into the stock exhaust manifold, or get a bung and weld it to your downpipe... zeitronix (http://www.zeitronix.com/) or PLX (m-300 is a good choice http://www.forced-air.com/) id get the zeitronix because its cheaper but you have to use a laptop, thats how you read the a/f data, no external display comes with it, but you can datalogg with it, you cant do that with the m-300... i think the zeitronix is like $279 w/sensor... If youre already gonna be tuning with a laptop... zeitronix suits it well

[Robs89LXi]

Hmmm... nice products. Since I don't have a laptop, that PLX-500 would be nice, but $550 ain't exactly cheap. Not sure what a tuning session would run me, but it might be competitive. Still, sure would be nice to have. Seems like I remember seeing somewhere that there was one that would allow you to run their program on a Palm Pilot; ring a bell? Most are just basically Excel files, so I would not see why not.

[AccordEpicenter]

who knows... for the right amount of money you can do all that shit. A plx m300 will show you real time a/f ratios on an led display, all for about 315 or so with the sensor

[adams86lxi]

I went injector shopping today! WOW! The local pick and pull had 9 dsm's non of which were turboed. I found 1 junkyard around here with the 450s i want, and they wanted 20$ each!!! The junkyards are rediculous around here!

[AccordEpicenter]

get em on eGay or homemadeturbo... shoudnt run you more than like $60-$65 at the most