Rebuilding A20A3....any suggestions?

[A20A3inside]

Hey all, I just tore the A3 out of my 87 hatch and now i need some pointers (if any of you have any) on the BEST ways to rebuild this sucker. I want max HP and want it strong. Anyhelp wold be awesome...

[mouchyn]

how much are you willing to spend?

[A20A3inside]

well, it isn't going to be a "right now" job...it is going to span over a little while because the army doesn't exactly pay the best...i still drive the hatch and pulled the A20 out of the spare car.....I am just looking for suggestion on the best products...

[Robs89LXi]

Sounds like you need to sit down and plan out exactly what you want as an end product, then research what you will need to get there. I would suggest looking through our vBGarage section for some ideas. There are several projects there that might give you some direction as to where you might want to go. Once you have a solid plan, then come back and outline it. It will make it a lot easier for members to help you then.

[rjudgey]

Well you want to start off with the basics first, get everything stripped down, then get block and head pressure tested, if they pass then get them machined, block needs decking, re-bore, crank may need re-grinding or polishing, you could get the oil journals chamfered, balanced, flywheels lightened and balanced with clutch kit and crank.
Head needs skimming, cam bearings may need to be polished, new guides bronze ones are better but have to be custom made or at least K line bronze inserts into the old cast ones.
That little lot should keep you busy for a while.

Then for parts JE have a pattern for Our engines $140 each but you need to get the block re-bored for forged as they need extra clearance.
Eagle Rods but not sure on part numbers and which engine their from?
Help on this is it B18C or B16? the little ends need machinine out to fit the piston pins but i believe JE have a fully floating pin so this is not as critical as if you were using stock pistons.
ACL bearings (also Clevette name in U.S.)
Not sure who's rings are best i use Hastings which are cheap/reasonable Quality but others may have a better make in mind like sealed power?
Sealed power oil pump but Toga hi Volume is better.
New Water Pump with cast impeller not bent steel
Gasket Kit from Felpro which has Flepro Blue Head Gasket which are really good Quality Teflon coated and are easy to take off and can be re-used again apparantly not hat i'd risk it with a $40 part!!
Or another Good alternative is AJUSA which i use a lot very good price and Quality and you can buy all the bit's seperately like exhuast gasket etc.

Hope this is enough to keep you busy for a while, that will build you up a really strong bottom end that won't cost a huge fortune, in the process of doing this myself for a new High output A20 with 42mm bore bike carbs, most of the money to be honest goes into the head, having new valves made at the moment completely custom race spec Stainless steel, very aerodynamic profile, 33mm inlet with 38mm exhaust cost £18 pounds each X 12 = lot of money!! Then 12 X Bronze guides.

[A20A3inside]

rjudgey, thanks for that...i will print it and go over it...and as far as my plan goes for the final product...i want this little boy to push around 220-230 NA. not really sure if it is at all possible, but hey, it is worth a shot. and then once i can achieve that goal, i am gonna try and find that perfect beauty for her: the turbo w/ about 17 psi...what do ya'll think? today i just got done with removing the crank shaft and pistons. they look pretty good and the block and head are bothe in awesome shape. only had 160k on the engine. the tranny is shot so i junked it. it isn't even worth explaining the shape of it. so basically what i have now is a bare head and block and i want POWER. so i will go with the advice from the hudge and see where that leads me to for now....thanks guys....keep it coming

[mouchyn]

it's a giant waste of money and time to build the crappy a20 up to an impossible 220 hp, just to turn around and turbo it.

either you're going to go NA or you're going to go turbo. they require completely different block preparations, head designs, pistons choices, exhaust systems, etc.

if you're gonna go turbo, get the block sleeved, slap in all the forged internals you can, have the rotating assembly balanced, and take your time. To run a 17 psi system, you better not spend a dime less than $5,000. if you do, you cut corners.

[A20A3inside]

OK, I guess I will just go the blown route. If I do that, then my aspirations will be to achieve like 250 hp. Now all I have to do is get the pistons. You guys know what pistons I should go with? They need to be the strongest I can get. I am not wanting to replace them any time soon.

Or even better...What company should I go with for the entire rotating assembly? I will just keep it all consistent with the same company. Thanks guys.

[rjudgey]

Would be easier to do turbo route for 250bhp you can do it on an N/A engine, i've allready done a few powerfull N/A engines but you do need to do a lot of mods from bigger valves, to custom header, custom camshaft profile, to get well over 200bhp and then it would be difficult driving on streets from cam profile being lumpy and lightweight flywheel, not impossible but if you drive a lot in traffic you could get tired of driving it!! That and extra heat produced from engine witht he mods meens that engine can overheat more easily when sitting in traffic.
Depends on what mods you can do yourself and also on if you know a really good machine shop that doesn't do shoddy work and is reasonably priced.
You can get around 200bhp N/A without toomuch trouble with a Twin carb setup or bike carbs but getting over 230bhp is going to cost a lot more, even if you went with low CR ratio piston you could get 200bhp N/A then switch to turbo when you get bored later on, if you get the JE pistons and Eagle rods sorted out in first place they will do N/A or Boost, use the head to alter the CR ratio, my last 200bhp engine had CR ratio of just under 9 so it's possible but if you want over 200bhp you need CR of at least 10 but 11-12:1 is better.

[Robs89LXi]

Hey, A20A3Inside, I don't mean to sound condescending here, or try to burst you bubble, but do you really know what you are getting into? Judging from your wording above, you don't seem to realize that there is almost NO aftermarket support for our engines. You mention getting the complete rotating assembly from the same companyl; there is no such thing. I've got forged pistons from Diamond, but they are not stock items. They custom build them per order, and they are very expensive. I'm also running a copper head gasket; again, no such thing on the shelf, but they will build one for you if you order it. I've got ARP head studs, but they are not for the A20. ARP was nice enough to cross reference them for me from another application. The list goes on, but I hope you can see what I'm getting at here. If you read this forum a lot, you will see a bunch of guys who say "I'm gonna do this", or "I'm gonna do that", but until they actually start into it, it is all just fantasy. It sounds to me like you are still in that stage right now, where you know what you would like to have, but don't know yet what it takes to get there.
Research a bunch on this site, and make sure you find out who the people are who are ACTUALLY building something, not the ones who say they are going to. You will see there is quite a difference between fantasy and reality.

[shepherd79]

if you're gonna go turbo, get the block sleeved, slap in all the forged internals you can, have the rotating assembly balanced, and take your time. To run a 17 psi system, you better not spend a dime less than $5,000. if you do, you cut corners.

he doesn't have to sleeve the block. it is IRON solid block.

if you want to run 17psi, you may as well invest money into better ECU. stock ECU just won't cut it. You have choices at this point: convert to OBD1 and use Hondata or buy stand a lone system and connect to it.

IMO the time and money you are going to put into this useless motor, you better off spend on motor swap. inthe end you will get more power from motor swap.
get LS motor, build that bitch and boost it.

[mouchyn]

...or buy a 250HP car...

a20a3inside, why do you want to build your accord? why not sell it and buy something easier to build, mod, and tune? if you have the money to drop on a reliable 250HP turbo setup, you should have the money to buy a civic, integra, 240sx, or something that's cheap and easy to mod. Hell, buy a $200 civic beater and build it up. That way you have your accord as a nice daily driver, and a stripped out civic or integra as a V8 killer.

[88Accord-DX]

He has the motor torn out allready.

I think a motor swap with more aftermarket support would be good idea. Don't get out of your $$$ budget though.

[Robs89LXi]

In answer to why build an A20? Becuase I can! Sure, I could go buy a Civic and bolt on aftermarket stuff, but then I'd be just like the thousands of clones already out there. Part of the fun and pride of building the 3G is the fact that it will be unique, and one of a kind. Remember, it is not the end product alone that some seek, but the enjoyment of the path it takes to get there. Plus, when you blow the doors off a modified Civic with your ol' "what is that, an Accord?", the moment will be priceless.
A20A3Inside, if you really think you want to make the commitment to both time and money, then I say go for it.

[mouchyn]

In answer to why build an A20? Becuase I can! Sure, I could go buy a Civic and bolt on aftermarket stuff, but then I'd be just like the thousands of clones already out there. Part of the fun and pride of building the 3G is the fact that it will be unique, and one of a kind. Remember, it is not the end product alone that some seek, but the enjoyment of the path it takes to get there. Plus, when you blow the doors off a modified Civic with your ol' "what is that, an Accord?", the moment will be priceless.
A20A3Inside, if you really think you want to make the commitment to both time and money, then I say go for it.

oh, i totally agree. that's why i've been modding my accord and 3g preludes. but, that's why i asked. I've seen too many people buy an 88 accord because that's what they could afford. then when they get some money, they just want something to race or be fast.

if you like the accord and take pride in your work and want to be unique and challenged, go for it.

if you just want something to be fast, reliable, easy to work on, and cheap... get rid of the accord.