87 Fuel cut-off relay location

[Poodlehead]

Hey Guys,

My 87 DX has been running fine until the other morning. It sputtered once when I tried to start it and then would only turn over and didn't even try to start. When I turn the key on, I don't hear the fuel pump run for a few seconds so I'm assuming my cut-off relay is bad.

My real question is where the ^&$%$) is this relay located on an 87 DX Automatic? I found a relay that I unplugged off the back of the fuse panel in the upper left hand corner. Is this it? It has 4 prongs, but they are not lined up in a row. I took the cover off of it and it's a basic relay. Applying 12 volts across the coil shorts the contacts. In other words, this relay checks out fine so I'm wondering if I am looking at the right relay and I have some other problem or if I haven't found the right relay. Any help will be appreciated. Thanks!

[smufguy]

the fuel cut off relay is the biggest one of them all. its all al/tin casing with holes in it. its the gayest looking relay of all

[Poodlehead]

the fuel cut off relay is the biggest one of them all. its all al/tin casing with holes in it. its the gayest looking relay of all

Is it mounted on the backside of the fuse panel or ? I don't remember one looking like that, but I try not to look at the gayest ones... :) I'll go look one more time before it gets dark. Thanks!

[Poodlehead]

I FOUND IT!!! I was in the right area, back side of the fuse panel in the lower left corner. Thanks for the help!

[smufguy]

ur welcome sir ;)

[Poodlehead]

Well I was hoping that would take care of my problem. Even though the solder joints looked good, I hit them all. Still no click click click when I turn the key on so I pulled the connector at the fuel pump and put a digital volt meter on there. When I turned the key on, there was 12V for an instant so I guess my FP has gone tits up? I'm pretty sure it is, but just have to hear it from someone else. Also, I didn't connect the 2 connectors on the lower panel just below the steering column, but that shouldn't matter, should it?

The other strange thing is I had no warning that it was acting up. Just Sat morning I get in to start it and it fires once and not again. At least it took a dump at the house instead of someplace else. Thanks guys and gals (if there are any).

[smufguy]

well if you want, u can always pull the connector off the pump and test it by putting direct voltage to it from the battery and see if it does work. I have a whole carb fuel pump sitting in my garage and if u want, u can have it for 30 bux shipped.

[Poodlehead]

...I have a whole carb fuel pump sitting in my garage and if u want, u can have it for 30 bux shipped.

If I wasn't in a hurry to get this thing running again, I'd probably buy it from you, but AutoBone has one for $65 and I'm hoping I can get this thing going this evening. Will let you know what happens. Thanks again for the help!

Do you know if there is a G2 list for Accords? I've got an 82 with 232K on the clock that needs to be revived... :)

[smufguy]

when u mean a gen 2 list. what do u mean?

[Poodlehead]

when u mean a gen 2 list. what do u mean?

I meant the same kind of User Group as this 3geez list, but for older Accords (1982). Just curious mainly.

I've got bigger problems now. Replace the entire FP assy with one from AutoBone at lunch. Before I stuck it in the tank I hooked up the connector and turn the key on for a split second. Pump ran fine so I installed it. Then I turned the key on and didn't hear anything. Hmmm, maybe it's just quieter. Anyway I do that a few times so it can pump up. Then I try to start it. It fired and stumbled right away and died. Did the key on key off a couple more times and tried to start it. No good! Sounds like it jumped timing so after work I pull the top timing belt cover and plug from the tranny. I line up the timing marks on the camshaft pulley and the mark on the crank (tranny inspection hole) is dead nuts on a 'dot'. I back the crank up a little bit and sure as shit there is the TDC mark. Looks like the belt jumped a tooth so now the big question is will one tooth off scramble the valves?

The car is in the street now so I will move it tomorrow in the driveway so I can realign the belt, but just curious what my chances are of already damaging the valve train. Anyway, a good excuse to go drink now.... Thanks!

[Poodlehead]

Oh yeah, I replaced the timing belt about 6-9 months / 6K miles ago.

[smufguy]

its probably not damaged. But its funny how it jumped a tooth. U positive it did? I mean i do take my car upto 6K sometimes and the belt was replaced like 40K miles back. I never had any problem with it what so ever. So for you, i have no idea whats up bro

[Poodlehead]

its probably not damaged. But its funny how it jumped a tooth. U positive it did? ... So for you, i have no idea whats up bro

It sure looks like it's off a tooth, plus compression sounds all funky now when I turn it over. I've had a slight oil leak for a while that looks like it's on the right side where the head bolts to the block. I wonder if I blew a head gasket, I wouldn't think so. When adjusting the tensioner, they say turn the belt 3 teeth to tighten the tensioner, do they mean 3 teeth on the camshaft sprocket? Maybe I didn't have the tensioner tight enough???? I'll find out this eveing once I realign the belt. Sorry to be such a PITA, but thanks for the info !

[Poodlehead]

I'm confused and AFU as to what the real problem was. I think originally the Fuel Pump went out. After replacing it maybe I didn't try starting it long enough even though I primed it. I'm still scratching my head as to the funky noise it made when it turned over like compression was screwed and thats when I noticed the cam timing was off.

Now I'm confused about what the right timing mark on the flywheel is (automatic). I've read that its the 'white' mark, but there is no friggen white mark. When I put the timing belt on 6-9 months ago I used the 'dot' on the flywheel. This time I used the middle longest line on the flywheel which I think is one tooth different than the 'dot'.

The car turning over still sounded funny like a cylinder with bad compression but it finally started and runs good except now there is some slight clatter during acceleration. I'll reset the timing tomorrow, but curious if I used the right flywheel mark this time or last time... :) I was getting 31-32 MPG before on the road and about 24 in town. Before it started, I put 12V on the old pump and it ran so I was really twitching for a while until it started.

Bottom line, Smufguy, you were right about it not jumping timing. Dumbshit me just missed the mark the first time or this time... Beer time now! Thanks for the help. If you are ever in Texas, make sure you let me know. I owe you some cold ones!

[smufguy]

no problem poodle. the crank pully has timing marks on it too, so if u want, see if u can set the timing in relation to that. Probably the rust or dust build up on the flywheel is making it harder for you to set the proper timing.

You did mention your whole ignition set up is good right? like your sparkplugs and dist and coil?

[Poodlehead]

You did mention your whole ignition set up is good right? like your sparkplugs and dist and coil?

I replaced that stuff not that long ago. The car starts fine now and runs good except for the clatter during acceleration, so life is good. After work, I'll adjust the dist. timing and see how it goes. I don't have a fancy timing light that dials in the degrees so I'll do some digging on what mark to set it to after removing and plugging the vacuumn line to the dist. I'm guessing now it is too far advanced... Thanks again!

[Poodlehead]

I retarded the timing back to the short mark past the long mark on the flywheel and it's running good. Also, before I would have a slight hesitation often when taking off from a standing start similar to the accelerator pump not working. It didn't happen every time, but now that appears to be resolved. Maybe it will fix my cold start problem where the car would start for about 1-2 seconds and then die unless I pumped the gas. I guess only time will tell, but if it fixes that problem, I'll make a new post because I've looked at many posts before for the start/die problem. Maybe other people used the wrong mark on the flywheel too when replacing their timing belt. That sure would make me feel better. :)

[DanG86LX]

There are 2 marks on the drive plate (AT) which u got mixed up..
- a "T" which is the Top Dead Center (#1 cylinder). This is used to setting crankshaft sprocket when installing timing belt.
- a "i|i" which is the ~15* advance from "T" mark, and is used when setting the timing (with a light..).

BTW, i replaced my fuel pump 2 days ago, and as u said no warning whatsoever. Had to tow the car home :mad:
I got a CARTER P72190 pump. When i got old one out it was identical with new one. So i wonder how reliable are those CARTER fuel pumps?

[Poodlehead]

I never saw a real "T", but I did see a dot which I guess I had set the cam timing to the first time. Now I have adjusted the cam timing by moving the camshaft one tooth so it hits the "i|i" close to center. When I restarted the car, the "i|i" mark wasn't even in the picture. I adjusted the distirbutor so my light was hitting on the small "i" on the right hand side of "i|i" and called it good. When you say ~15 degrees, do you mean from TDC to about the "|" mark and then the "i" are just for finer adjustments or are you saying that I probably had the cam timing right before and now it's off?

The strange thing is, it seems to have fixed 2 problems so far. Doesn't feel like I have a bad accel pump and the car doesn't start and die after a couple seconds later when cold as it did before.

I put +12v on my old fuel pump and it runs so I'm not sure what the deal is/was there, but the car is running good now. It only had 85K on it so it does make you wonder... Next I need to find the leak in the AC so I can fix that and be cool this summer... :) THanks!

[DanG86LX]

Poodlehead>> ..I have adjusted the cam timing by moving the camshaft one tooth so it hits the "i|i" close to center...

I think this is wrong. Prolly ur dizzy is way sideways so u cannot set timing wright..
http://3geez.com/showthread.php?t=8010

[Poodlehead]

I'll have to take a look again. This time I'll get the ole lady to slowly turn the crank (on the car) and I'll look in the window and check out all the marks on the flywheel. Thanks!

[Poodlehead]

Poodlehead>> ..I have adjusted the cam timing by moving the camshaft one tooth so it hits the "i|i" close to center...

I think this is wrong. Prolly ur dizzy is way sideways so u cannot set timing wright..


I'll have to take a look again. This time I'll get the ole lady to slowly turn the crank (on the car) and I'll look in the window and check out all the marks on the flywheel. Thanks!

Well with the ole ladies eyes, I see what my problem is. I found the TDC mark, then about middle ways to the "1|5" mark there is a 'dot' that I originally used as TDC. This last time, dumbshit me reset it using the "1|5" mark. The car seems peppier from a standing start, but falls off quick. Anyway, it's not clattering, but I know now where to set the cam timing. Like they say, third times a charm.... Thanks to all for helping blind boy through this.... :ugh:

[lostforawhile]

There are 2 marks on the drive plate (AT) which u got mixed up..
- a "T" which is the Top Dead Center (#1 cylinder). This is used to setting crankshaft sprocket when installing timing belt.
- a "i|i" which is the ~15* advance from "T" mark, and is used when setting the timing (with a light..).

BTW, i replaced my fuel pump 2 days ago, and as u said no warning whatsoever. Had to tow the car home :mad:
I got a CARTER P72190 pump. When i got old one out it was identical with new one. So i wonder how reliable are those CARTER fuel pumps?
did you get it at nappa? i went through six of those thingsin a row it's a piece of :barf: . after four towing bills they finally gave me my money back. the carter pump will lose fuel pressure under hard acceleration also, what was happening is that the arm it comes on is too long and it was pushing the inlet on the pump up against the tank baffle. the pump would then starve itself for fuel over and over and then burn out. i called carter and they first tried to say it was bad instalation, how can you install a fuel pump wrong? then they tried to say the tank was dirty, my tank is clean as a babys ass, then they told me that the filter on the pump would let through dirt that could destroy the pump. so one bad tank of gas and your pump is toast. i got a master power pump at autozone, haven't had a problem since.