LXI Brake Rotor Warpage

[possum]

Hi 3Geezers,

Got an 88 LXI 4 door with some serious brake issues.

When I got the car 3 years ago, the rotors were warped. Soon I replaced them with cheap 18 dollar chinese rotors and 9 dollar organic pads. I never tourqed the wheels (but don't think I overtightened the nuts) and installed steel wheels with snow tires. Within 1 month the rotors were terribly warped. At the same time I replaced a rear wheel cylinder and adjusted up the rear brakes.

After about another 5 thousand miles I replaced the rotors and pads. Upon disassembly I found the friction material of the front pads was partially delaminated from the backing plates. It's like they got too hot or something. Again I cleaned and adjusted up the rear pads.

Within a week or two, I noticed a slight pulse when getting off the interstate. Now that slight pulse is a dreadful shaking and those rotors are toast again.

This time I bought Brembo OE rotors and Brembo pads. I want to fix this problem for good. But I worry these rotors will warp too. The calipers don't apear to be sticking and the pistons have easily slid back into the caliper housing when I changed pads. I have never seen a problem like this before.

I hate to spend the extra money on rebuilt calipers and brake lines, but maybe I should to permanetly solve this problem. Anyone have this same problem?

[TheWatcher]

I doubt this is the problem, but I'm going to post this nonetheless. Last week on MotorWeek the mechanic guy Goss brought up the subject of warped rotors. His discussion was on replacing tires, and you probably already know this, but here's the gist of what he said. He showed a rotor and explained that tires that are replaced incorrectly can cause the rotors to warp. The main reason this happens is impact wrenches. Even when they use torque bars to limit the impact wrenches, if you install the first lug tight all the way then it will be too tight and the rotor may warp.

The correct technique (everyone knows this, I know) is to hand tighten the lugs EVENLY. Tighten one a little, then the one across it, then the next two. When they are all slightly tighter than hand tight, gradually and EVENLY torque the lug nuts (first one than the one across it). When you tighten them up all up pretty good, give them all a final torque to spec (again two at a time) with a torque wrench.

I sometimes have a hard time loosening 80 lbs. torque (the specification), so I only torque to 70 lbs. But that's just me, you should probably torque to the specification, which is 80 lbs.

Sorry if this seems too elementary, but if not, I hope it helps. Probably was the cheap rotors and stuff, the Brembos should help.

Peace.

[Neuspeed87lx]

sounds like you got what you paid for with the cheapy rotors.... i have run into the same problem with cheap rotors warping even only having them on the car for a week or 2.... then other times i have had rotors on for a year and have no problems.... anyway ... just make sure your calipers are not sticking ... and the slides are free... throw some better quality pads and rotors on there and you sould be good... and like the watcher said make sure you tighten the wheels to 80 ft lbs.... use a torque wrench or a torque stick if your using air tools.... and go in a criss cross pattern... goodluck .... just a thought ...do you have aftermarket wheels ?

[AccordEpicenter]

i have my honda rotors and ive heated those fucking things up sooooooooo hot doing 120+ mph stops repeatedly, and they havent warped at all. I think the cheap rotors and cheap pads def caused your warpage.

[possum]

@Thewatcher

yes proper tourqe and correct tightening pattern are important. I did tighten using the cross pattern. Along this line, I noticed the steel wheels dont contact the rotors nearly as nicely as the alloys. The steel wheels and perhaps a bit too much torque may have contributed to the problem.


@Neuspeed87lx

Cheap chinese rotors may mean poor metalurgy. And the cheap pads surely had something to do with the delaminating.

However the guy at midas says they use the cheap rotors and dont have any problems. Wierd.


@accordEpicenter

Cant beat an OE rotor for quality. But not wanting to pay so much I went with the Brembos. The box says made in Italy, so I am hoping for a superior metalurgy.

[Oldblueaccord]

@Thewatcher

yes proper tourqe and correct tightening pattern are important. I did tighten using the cross pattern. Along this line, I noticed the steel wheels dont contact the rotors nearly as nicely as the alloys. The steel wheels and perhaps a bit too much torque may have contributed to the problem.


@Neuspeed87lx

Cheap chinese rotors may mean poor metalurgy. And the cheap pads surely had something to do with the delaminating.

However the guy at midas says they use the cheap rotors and dont have any problems. Wierd.


@accordEpicenter

Cant beat an OE rotor for quality. But not wanting to pay so much I went with the Brembos. The box says made in Italy, so I am hoping for a superior metalurgy.

I have a warped them all pretty much. Honda's, chinses,. raybestos Still havent tried the brembos. I dont think there is much you can do. I don't tighten those little screws down much might try that and dont lock your brakes up :uh:



wp

[shepherd79]

if you keep warping the rotors like they are nothing, you really should change your calipers.
I went through 3 sets of rotors before i changed the calipers, and the last fix fixed everything.

[possum]

Calipers hmmm.....I guess if the pistons arent sliding back in smoothly then it would cause too much heat and warp the rotors. I will have to call around to find some rebuilt calipers.

My investment in this car is becoming excessive. Guess I will be driving this one right into the ground.

[possum]

Well much to my suprise, Advance Auto Parts has rebuilt calipers for less than 35 dollars each. The price is right there. I will pick up a set this afternoon.

Got my brembo rotors earlier this week. The Brembo pads show up today. I should be able to swap everything out tommorrow morning.

[Oldblueaccord]

Well much to my suprise, Advance Auto Parts has rebuilt calipers for less than 35 dollars each. The price is right there. I will pick up a set this afternoon.

Got my brembo rotors earlier this week. The Brembo pads show up today. I should be able to swap everything out tommorrow morning.


If they want the old ones as a core I'd keep them a week or two until the new calipers prove to be OK. I had good luck with the set I got but I wanted to make sure so I hung onto them.


wp

[FyreDaug]

Well hell, you got a fully rebuilt from brake system, with brembos. Shouldnt have any problems now.

[possum]

Well hell, you got a fully rebuilt from brake system, with brembos. Shouldnt have any problems now.


Well that's what I am hoping. BTW...still havent replaced the lines or the master cylinder. :lol:

Keeping in mind, I still havent replaced the parts yet, tonight I noticed that when I brake the car wants to pull hard to the left. Guess with all that earth shattering vibration I never noticed that before. :sad2:

One may conclude the left front brakes are working harder than, or releasing less, than the other side. So perhaps the calipers are what I really needed all along. :idea:

Heck If I fix this problem for good, I might have to start improving the suspension some more. Just put new tires on and polished away the brake dust stains with crome polish (worked fantastic, the alloys look like new again) :rockon:

[HondaBoy]

i think i have said this before, but the rubber brake lines when they are deteriorated inside can make things like this happen. it'll make it so the caliper's piston doesnt go back in, so its stuck out for longer than it should. my brakes used to stick and warped my rotors. after replacing the deteriorated rubber brake lines and calipers, there's been no problems with my brakes sticking or overheating.

[possum]

i think i have said this before, but the rubber brake lines when they are deteriorated inside can make things like this happen. it'll make it so the caliper's piston doesnt go back in, so its stuck out for longer than it should. my brakes used to stick and warped my rotors. after replacing the deteriorated rubber brake lines and calipers, there's been no problems with my brakes sticking or overheating.


Ya I have considered that too. Front brake lines would add another 60-100 dollars in parts to this overhaul job which is now up to $160 excluding labor. It's one of those dambed if I do, dambed if I don't situations.

The reason is I am kind of torn between saving for another car versus putting more money into this one to keep it going. For the time being, there isn't any choice. I need reliable transportation to keep the rent paid, and brake warpage aside, the honda has been extremely reliable. That's pretty remarkable for a 17 year old automobile. :cool:

[charlie89LXi]

I think it's the calipers. Every time I had the rotors replaced or turned, they got warped again in 6 months. Two years ago, I had the calipers replaced along with a new set of rotors. Today, the rotors are still fine.
My car still has the orginal master cyclinder after 16+ years & 207K miles.
So I don't think it's the MC.

[HondaBoy]

i hate to say it but doing my front brakes was one of the easiest major things i've done on the car. i'd rather do that again that fixing the oil pan or oil filter base gasket. i save a shit load of money. $160 is right on cue for the cost, thats about exactly what it cost me for the rubber brake lines, rotors, calipers and other parts.

[possum]

160 for parts was Brembo OE rotors, Brembo Pads, and 2 Rebuilt calipers. I decided to let my mechanic change the parts given I didnt want to get into bleeding the brakes. Got charged 100 bucks to install all that stuff. And I didnt even get my hands dirty. So far so good. The car doesnt shake like a bar-room bull anymore.