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View Full Version : Subwoofer direction, seat question



Drache713
05-28-2005, 06:31 AM
Hey guys, first post. Great forum. Anyways, just a few newb questions. I installed my system from my 89 civic into my new 89 accord, and I have the subs facing the back towards the trunk. Is this the correct way to face them, or should they face into the car? Also, I always have my back seat folded down, but how much of a difference would it be to have the seat up? Should I have the seat up or down or what, I don't know what or how it's "supposed" to be. Thanks guys!

88accordhb
05-28-2005, 11:52 AM
i have mine facing the tail lights, i think many people have it like that. i tried it the other way around didn't notice anyting significant. also make sure you take care of the car parts rattling, it's soo annoying.

88accordhb
05-28-2005, 11:53 AM
oh yah, welcom to the board.

Drache713
05-28-2005, 02:11 PM
hey thanks! do you know if it makes a big difference to have the backseat up or down? I tried both and could only tell a small difference, how do most people have it set up? Is it "better" to have the seat up or down?

z3bra
05-28-2005, 02:52 PM
bass is a non directional sound, meaning it doesnt matter which way you face it, it shouldnt make a difference

88accordhb
05-28-2005, 02:57 PM
bass is a non directional sound, meaning it doesnt matter which way you face it, it shouldnt make a difference
yah werd, plus it's kick ass in a hatch accord. hehe. just a side note.

i'd leave the seats up, prevents jackasses from stealing your shit.

FyreDaug
05-28-2005, 03:07 PM
bass is a non directional sound, meaning it doesnt matter which way you face it, it shouldnt make a difference

Sorry, have to butt in here. Even though its non directional, either you have the subs back and get reverb (sound waves hitting the body, getting transferred into the body, and then sent back) which will have a little delay in sound (probably not noticable to most people) and subs back will hit harder. However, since some of the sound gets trapped into the body because of how sound works, you will lose some frequencies to hear, but youll feel them instead.

If you turn them around to face the cab you will hear it better, it will be more of a pronounced sound but it wont hit as hard. If you can put your seats down, do it, the sound wont get muffled by the fabric.

Subs back is more for pressure SPL, and forward is quality, SQ. So it DOES make a difference

FyreDaug
05-28-2005, 03:29 PM
edit: delete, double post

BITESIZE
05-28-2005, 04:12 PM
bass+hatch=yup!

AccordEpicenter
05-28-2005, 04:29 PM
if the subs are pointed forward into the passenger compartment you will have alot of cancellation from the inverse wave hitting the trunk and bouncing into the passenger compartment, if you dont believe me, try this... face the subs forward, then listen to them from the drivers seat... then after youve listened to them, open your trunk lid, get back in and listen to them again. You should notice that they sound louder and better now. If you point the subs backward, you eliminate most of the inverted wave because the interior absorbs it, so it usually sounds best like this with the seats down.

FyreDaug
05-28-2005, 04:42 PM
Or you could get a good sub and not worry about it. Because thats not totally true, why would there be cancelation behind where the sub is faced? The waves go forward not back, you would get cancellation more if they are faced backwards because 1, you lose the sound that gets trapped into the body of the car, you WONT hear that, secondly reverb sounds different than regular waves, why? because some are piggybacked and some are cancelled. It sounds louder because the sound waves will stack up during certain frequencies. Thats why some people during SPL contests will move their subs around in their trunk during setup to find the highest piggy back to get the loudest DB.

Dont tell me you dont believe that.

LucidReality
05-28-2005, 05:25 PM
I always thought that you wanted the subs to face as close tot he rear of the car as possible to get a sort of bandpass thing going with the trunk. I know my 2 12" in my old car sounded better pushed right up against back of the trunk, than if they were just sitting in the middle of the trunk facing up.


But the subs facing the seats has another nice quality that not many people think about. If ya got a few women in your car, and your subs are facing the rear seats, the vibration from the subs turns them on really fast ;) Thats why my old car had an 8" sub mounted unter the passenger seat ;)

I wish i hadnt wrecked that car :(

FyreDaug
05-28-2005, 06:08 PM
Well essentially you still get the same amount of vibration whether they are forward or not, its just different frequencies you would feel.

Anyways, another thing I didnt mention was that if you get one of those graphs (arg, cant remember the name) where it shows frequency response, of how loud each frequency is the subs forward will be more or less a flat line, with it facing the rear, you will get highs and lows.

88accordalltheway
05-28-2005, 07:57 PM
Q: Do you have a banpass box or sealed?

ok heres what ive learned FROM EXPIRENCE, plus i work in the car audio department at best buy.......

If you face the subs forward(into the cab), you will get the cleanest sound, no rattles, no blemishes, no fudgyness(unless the speaker sucks and just clips all the time or is just blown, or you have random stuff in the car thats loose and rattling) Only do this if you have the seat down, if the seat is up, the subs have no air to move, so they wont be very loud, and they will sound like total crap. Its a crappy way to have them if you have people in and out of the car all the time in the back seat, cause you want it to sound good for them, but if the subs can breathe properly, then its going to sound like absolute crap.

If you face the subs towards the trunk, and put them as far back as you can(without having the subs touch the back of the trunk when they are playing), then this will be the loudest position for them. Unfortunatly, if your car doesnt have a shit load of dynamat all over the trunk, its going to rattle like a mofo. I drove around like this for about a week, and just got anoyed of the rattling. Having the seat down like this will help, itll be louder, but youll hear way more rattling. Facing the subs up in the middle will have the same affect as doing this, only it wont be quite as loud.

If you face the subs back and slide them as far forward, you will get fairly clean sound, some rattling, and nice loudness. This is kind of like the middle man of the way to do it, and IMO, the best of both worlds. This is the way i have it right now in my car. I also did this so i could lock my speaker box up to the semi vertical part that the back seat leans up against. I did this because ive had my shit stolen before, so i recommend to anyone who has a system with subs to get that shit locked up asap. If you want ill post pics of the locks and how i did it, just ask. I also locked them up cause i drive crazy sometimes, so now they stay in one place.


As far as how to position them, its all up to you man. Just expirement and see what you like. Maybe you can stand the rattling, just to get the loudest sound possible. Or possibly your anal and need the cleanest possible sound, so youll face them forward. No one knows YOU better than YOU, so just figure out what you like and go from there.

Ct (88accordhb) doesnt hear a difference because he has a hatch, and all the air in that car is totally free, so changing the position of the box wouldnt make a difference.



Oh yea BTW, dont let anyone fool you, bass does have direction, otherwise this thread wouldnt have a meaning.

FyreDaug
05-28-2005, 08:47 PM
I dont work for any place, but I run my own business installing sound quality systems in cars using a computer and an optical signal. I'm quite the audiophile myself (and my music files are all flac, fuck mp3) and I know my share of stuff. Hatches sound awesome when you get the box firmly mounted to the car by screwing it in or whatever and facing them up, best case scenario is if you can get an angle perfect that the incidence angle will direct the reflective waves directly forward. But it doesnt make much of a difference if you dont. Just face em up and pound em.

And by the way, just incase people dont know gain on the amp isnt volume, if you turn that all the way up because you think itll hit harder you are wrong. The gain should be set absolutely as low as possible without sounding too quiet. All the gain really does is add power(volume) to the line all throughout. And if its too loud when you crank it, youll get bad sound.

Again, best case scenerio is you have the gain on minimum and have your sub controlled via sub out that you can change gains on the deck. Crank the sub out up and turn the gain down. Best sound. But if you just like to blow subs and pound as hard as you can disregard this.

FYI power doesnt blow speakers, distortion does.
Been pounding a single 12" ads sub rated at 500w with over 1000rms for almost a year now and it still sounds amazing (not my system)

88accordalltheway
05-28-2005, 09:26 PM
FYI power doesnt blow speakers, distortion does.
Been pounding a single 12" ads sub rated at 500w with over 1000rms for almost a year now and it still sounds amazing (not my system)
getting a little OT bud.

So i guess i can go and get some shitty ass subs and get a nice name brand mono amp hook it up, turn the distortion all the way down and expect it to last a long time(wired corrctly of course)? Geez man, think about what you are saying. Distortion can prematurly(sp?) kill the speakers, but all that power is what ultimatly kill them. Make a new thread if you are going to get OT this much, i mean, you dont want to turn into a whore like ct....

FyreDaug
05-28-2005, 11:16 PM
I was just giving that as additional info man, relax. The rest of the post was on topic, just adding a little info for the guy posting.


So i guess i can go and get some shitty ass subs and get a nice name brand mono amp hook it up, turn the distortion all the way down and expect it to last a long time(wired corrctly of course)? Geez man, think about what you are saying. Distortion can prematurly(sp?) kill the speakers, but all that power is what ultimatly kill them.

Even though you believe otherwise, yes, they will last a long time. Given the quality of the speaker. Compare that to having a really good sub and distorting it like nothing compared to shitty subs with a good amp and tweaked properly. Think of what your sayin man. Obviously there is a line between good tweaking/shitty subs with bad tweaking and good subs. I'm sure you can figure that out. Dont mean to insult you man, but get your facts compeltely solid before you go shutting it down.

EDIT: And I know I was off by saying that distortion will kill the subs and not power, but ultimately thats the case, some people are scared about blowing subs because they have an extra 100w going to them. When a sub rated at 500w could get 200 and blow. If you know car audio then you know how it will work. Ultimately its not the power that blows them. It is distrotion no matter which way you look at it. Not saying power wotn blow them, but its worse to distort than to overpower, thats all Im sayin

88accordalltheway
05-29-2005, 12:46 AM
so can we agree that when you over powering by too much that itll distort naturally? hence when you over power it by too much, thats whatll kill the speaker. But in that case, its distorting because there is too much power. So its possible to kill the speaker if its rediculusly overpowered. Know what im saying?

And of course youll be ok if you overpower the subs just a little, just gotta trun the gains down, and keep the LPF down slightly too(too much power will get the speaker to clip, and eventually break). You want to stay within means with the amp and sub(s) watt wise rms and max(within 100 watts for cheaper stuff, and within 300-500 for the really good stuff) Or you can be anal and match everything up.

FyreDaug
05-29-2005, 02:05 PM
so can we agree that when you over powering by too much that itll distort naturally? hence when you over power it by too much, thats whatll kill the speaker. But in that case, its distorting because there is too much power. So its possible to kill the speaker if its rediculusly overpowered. Know what im saying?

Yeah of course, but if you know car audio and are installing a cheap system, you know you can make it work if you have a weak sub. Yes power can eventually lead to distortion, but not if its clean power. Cheap amp = bad power.

3rdCoast
07-08-2005, 12:47 PM
1st off over powering subs is what kills them it melts the coils and over extends some parts of the speaker. Distortion isnt a knob on the amp that can be turned down u use the amp settings(gain, bass boost) to remove distortion. Too much power and/or just having the volume too loud is what makes distortion also amp clipping. When u get distortion ur maxing out the sub and or amp. Thats that. As for how to face the subs i have mine in my 88 accord lx 4dr. facing the seat about 8-9 inches from the back of the seat i almost always have the seat down cuz the 3rd brake light in the window rattles horribly with the seat up with the subs facing the back the trunk rattles a lot more face them up towards the rear deck and ur gonna have bad trunk rattle and rear deck rattle so for me its seat down and subs facing inside the car. and min sound really good and loud everybody says my shit hits and the trunk doesnt rattle that much. so i found my set up but yeah its all up to u man play with it see what u like. Oh yeah im using a sealed box. Different boxes will probably need different postioning

HostileJava
07-08-2005, 06:29 PM
At least this thread isn't THAT old. 90 percent of blown speakers are due to underpoweriong them, not over powering them. Clipping occurs when the amp you are using can no longer supply enough power to push the cone or hold the cone at a certian frequency. If you were looking at a graphical representation of the wave it would flat line and then go back down AKA clip. If you blow a speaker from over powering it you will know it and smell it for quite some time after. When you push an amp to power a speaker beyond what it can handle that is when you get distortion since the amp can no longer hold the tone/note it's supposed to at that volume. The cone actual will wobble at this point causing distortion. That wobbling slowly but surely over time will warp the cylinder that it travels up an down on. Eventually the outside will be round but the inside will be an oval from the wobbling and warping. This is the scratchy noise you hear on a "blown" speaker. The inner cylinder rubbing against the outer one. If the warping becomes bad enough it can actually cause the cone to freeze or cause enough friction that the speaker draws to much current and overheats or damages outputs on the amp. I work at a computer and electonrics repair/sales/installation shop and it's a VERY rare occasion that we see a speaker come in with damage from over powering it.

FyreDaug
07-09-2005, 07:59 PM
Very good information. I agree with it all. However, over powering speakers is near the same amount of risk. And when you are underpowering a speaker you can typically blow the amp aswell. If its running at full capacity all the time or over capacity, well thats straight forward.

Only thing else I have to add is you can blow a speaker by not having it in a proper enclosure aswell. Like putting 100's of watts to a free air sub can cause some damage. Subs needs their resistance to make proper bass, ,and the resistance helps keep the sub from going too far... for lack of better words.

POS carb
07-12-2005, 12:18 PM
The direction does matter because waves traveling backwards bounce off the trunk lid and go forward so if the subs are facing to the rear up against the trunk lid the only waves you hear are being reflecte from the back, no cancellation and therefore the loudest bass, but also no trunk space. Also theories state that corners add 3 dB to the responce plays in a bit but mainly you should be worried about the cancelling waves (destructive interference)

If you put the subs forward most waves go forward but some go back, bounce off the trunk, travel forward, and cause some frequencies cancel out (destructive) and some to amplify (constructive interference). If you want some technical data on this subject just google those terms in parenthesis. This interference can be avoided by making an extra rear wall to the sub box that runs the entire width of the trunk, isolating the trunk from the front of the box.