argy

[1ajs]

my dad took the head of the car put new seals on it ect put it back on still smokes plus it runs lot smoother since he did that. What els could be causeing it to smoke. sulpher smell whitish blue smoke for short time then goes away and does not do it agian till the next morning weird. any ideas

87 accord lx
carb
stick

[AccordEpicenter]

did you do valve seals?

[Blkblurr]

Is it fuel injected or carb model? Sounds like you're still burning oil. If you replace the valve seals then it's most likely your piston rings. They may be worn or your cylinder walls are scored. Have you done a compression test on all cylinder?

[1ajs]

yes we did compresion test we got 150psi so ya no clue we havent checked it since just befor we redid the seals on the head. the car used to ratle all the stuff on the dashboard since we did the head it does not any more.


carb 5 speed manual
around 1 mill kms on this 3geez.................
(around 600,000 miles)

[FyreDaug]

Youve got 600000 miles on it? wow. Sorry had to say that.

[1ajs]

yes it has that much on it might be higher not totaly sure the exact amount

this was taken befor we put the head back on
http://img163.echo.cx/img163/602/dsc001351fr.jpg

[5spdaccordlxi]

did you replace the head gasket- if you didnt and its worn out it could be that coolant is reaching your cylinders- you say there is white smoke and this is an indication of coolant being burned- you also say that when the car warms up it stops smoking- this is also a sign of the head gasket leaking because when the engine warms up the head and block expands and would seal together any minor leaks of coolant into the cylinders-this same thing happened to my old saab- problem was fixed with a new head gasket (and head because that was warped and cracked also....what a mess)

[1ajs]

yes we replaced the head gasket the old one was showing it's ware

the head
http://img163.echo.cx/img163/2447/dsc001396ws.jpg

[1ajs]

hmm interesting a new clue

the same cylinder has the same leak still hmm did an a exsperiment whooy did the smook come out that spark plug hole blue smoke and oil. must be the valve guide that is doing it for now

my dad feels like puting some silicone down around it to seal it beter till he can A)pull one of a car at the recores B) a new valve guide(s)

psi befor head was pull is: 150psi. now it is:
cylder 1 160psi
cylder 2 175-80psi this is the one that had the leak befor and still leaks from w we can see
cylder 3 165psi
cylder 4 160psi

[Cheeseburger]

WOW 600000 miles

[88Accord-DX]

Your valve or valve seat could be worn to bad. You should have re-placed the valve stem seals at least when you had the head off. Did you check the head if it might be warped? That silicone trick you trying to do is not going to hold up to oil, might not handle operating temperatures. I'm sure it is not going to stay there at 3k-5k rpms.

Here is the valve spring compressor tool (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=4555014858&category=35625) you need to re-place the valve stem seals without pulling the head off.

*edit* Mistype above. You need to rotate the crankshaft to TDC for each cylinder you plan on changing the valve stem seal on.

[1ajs]

we had the head off replaced all the rubber seals along the top of the valves and replaced all the gaskets

we already have the tool in the link.

we figure it is leaking between the valve guide and the cylinder not the part the valve travels through the outer part
could it be posible to be a crack inbetween there? the engin over heated 2 summers ago from geting rocks in the rad.


we picked up another head off a A20A3 block that the odomitor said has 154,000 km's on it for 35$ at bucks Auto parts www.bucksautoparts.com

ya 600,000 miles but it in way beter shape then the ones we saw at the wreckors today that only had 200,000kms-400,000 kms on them strang thing is the engin some times will keep going after you turn the key off till you put it in gear to stop it.

the fuse for the instrument panel keeps going when it is warm out put a bracker in but why would it do that? any one els have this prob been doing that for last cuple years.

['89AccordLX(Rus)]

The engine continuing to run after you shut it off is called dieseling. You are either running too rich, or shutting the engine off at high RPM. Your smoking issue can be cause by worn valve guides. Correct me if I'm wrong, but valve guides need to be pressed out to be replaced. The seals can be replaced without specialized shop equipment. Your best bet would be to find a used head and rebuild it. Replace seals, valve guides, and grind the valve seats. Part of this procedure requires you to take it to a machine shop (valve guides). It shouldn't be too expensive however. Hope this helps.

BTW, most of the time, valve guides leak because of wear in the inner diameter, not between the head and outer diameter of the valve guide.

Its difficult to tell why exactly the fuse would blow, but it can be a loose wire or even a damaged instrument cluster. If you can, swap out the isntrument cluster with one from a junk yard and see if the problem goes away.

Just my $.02

[88Accord-DX]

we figure it is leaking between the valve guide and the cylinder not the part the valve travels through the outer part
could it be posible to be a crack inbetween there? the engin over heated 2 summers ago from geting rocks in the rad.
we picked up another head off a A20A3 block that the odomitor said has 154,000 km's on it for 35$ at bucks Auto parts www.bucksautoparts.com

Yeah, the head could have a hair line crack in it. There is dye penatrant used to find cracks on aluminum heads. Let us know how that used head works out. Don't forget a new head gasket. Clean the head bolt threads in the engine block with a tap. Tighten the head bolts in sequence & to torque value.

The valve stem seals is what I meant in what you could re-place with-out taking the head off. Valve guides need to be pressed in.

[1ajs]

yes it is 35$ cdn there site tells ya were all there locations are acros canada
the price we paid go's for all 4 cylder heads note: you gota pull the parts of the cars your self with your own tools theres a price list on the site www.bucksautoparts.com

ya we replaced the instrument panel still does this. just did it today agian poping the braker the car has been submerged 2 times so it probly a cored wire then who knows were it is ex rear door sencors wires had completly cored away and the switches were rusted stiff

the problem is only coming from the second cylinder from what we can tell would since it had the highest compresion when we tested it today at almost 180psi and the others had 160-165. befor we did the head it was 150psi for them all

we had the head off and changed the seals already just not the valve guides


i know that is what you ment ok well my dad got called out to work at 2am and it was smoking prity good but i wonder how the hell you change the guides when you gota heat the head to 300f would not be fun having to do that job would it

location winterpeg

[88Accord-DX]

To check for valve guide wear, slide the valve into its guide. Pull it open about 1/2", try to wiggle the valve sideways it its guide. If the valve moves sideways in any direction, the guide or stem is worn.

Pressing out the old guides and installing new ones can be difficult with some aluminum heads where the interference fit is considerable. Cracking the head is always a risk.

Use a special driving tool and hammer to drive out guide in the right direction, usually through the port. Drive the new guide in the other way.

Preheat the heads in an oven or hot plate prior to guide removal and to lubricate dry liners before driving them out. The head should also be preheated before the new guides are installed. Chilling the replacement guides can reduce the amount of interference during installation. Lubricant also helps prevent galling.

['89AccordLX(Rus)]

It may be much less painful to let a machine shop replace the valve guides. It would save a lot of trouble with buying special tools and having to go through the heating of the head. Just my $.02

[1ajs]

ya that was the plan to take it in and get them to change the valve guides just got to phone around see what it would cost to get it done

[88Accord-DX]

Even though you get new valve guides replaced, check to see if your valve stems have any play with the new valve guides installed. If you do, you need new intake or exhaust valves. Depending on which one has play.
BTW- new valve seats pressed in (if applicable) with a 3 angle valve job is nice to have if your valves are ok.

[1ajs]

ya i know to check the valves for play after ya replace the valve guides
what do you mean by 3 angle?????

[88Accord-DX]

A three angle valve job has two more angles than a standard valve job. The benefit comes from one angle placed on top and the other placed on the bottom of the standard seat angle. This produces a curved effect so air and fuel will flow with less resistance. The result is better response and better performance.

[1ajs]

we took the head we got from the wreckors today to get it checked over to see it there is anything rong with it besides the exoust valve guides

[lostforawhile]

The engine continuing to run after you shut it off is called dieseling. You are either running too rich, or shutting the engine off at high RPM. Your smoking issue can be cause by worn valve guides. Correct me if I'm wrong, but valve guides need to be pressed out to be replaced. The seals can be replaced without specialized shop equipment. Your best bet would be to find a used head and rebuild it. Replace seals, valve guides, and grind the valve seats. Part of this procedure requires you to take it to a machine shop (valve guides). It shouldn't be too expensive however. Hope this helps.

BTW, most of the time, valve guides leak because of wear in the inner diameter, not between the head and outer diameter of the valve guide.

Its difficult to tell why exactly the fuse would blow, but it can be a loose wire or even a damaged instrument cluster. If you can, swap out the isntrument cluster with one from a junk yard and see if the problem goes away.

Just my $.02valve guides can also be knurled this will often fix a slightly worn valve guide. this is when the machine shop puts small grooves inside of the valve guide. this is an old proven procedure it's been used for many many years. changing the valve guides on these cylinder heads is quite an involved procedure and requires some special honda tools to set the height properly. after one is replaced it then has to be reamed to proper size. ask about the knurling. it can be done to all of the guides at once and is a simple procedure. it also provides excellent oil control. what it does is raise the metal a few thousands of an inch inside of the valve guide and the grooves help keep oil from going down the valve stem.

[88Accord-DX]

There are 3 common methods used to repair worn valve guides.

1.) Knurling the valve guide-a machine shop tool is used to press indentations in the guide to reduce its inside diameter.

2.)Reaming the valve guide- the guide is reamed to a larger diameter and a new valve with oversize stems are installed.

3.) Installing a valve guide insert- the old guide is pressed or machined out & a new guide is pressed into the head.

** I don't know why I'm typing this cause he has the head on the car, but I guess it is good info. ***

[1ajs]

wow i forgot about this thread i had well anyways its still the stock head on the car we havent contacked the shop being my dad works from 7 am till 7pm and thew shop is 9 to 5 anyways they probly did somthing with it who knows worht seeing if they still have it